Security Halt!
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Security Halt!
Michael “Sully” Sullivan on Community, Challenge and Purpose After Service | Security Halt! Podcast Ep. 461
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How do veterans maintain the connection, challenge, and purpose that were once built into military life?
Michael “Sully” Sullivan joins the conversation to discuss his journey from military service to leading Team RWB, an organization focused on enriching veterans' lives through community, physical activity, and meaningful connection.
Sully explores why veteran support shouldn't begin only when someone reaches a crisis point. Instead, building relationships, maintaining physical fitness, finding new challenges, and becoming part of a strong community can help veterans navigate transition and continue building meaningful lives after service.
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Chapters:
00:00 Meet Michael “Sully” Sullivan
00:30 The Real Mission Behind Team RWB
01:25 Building Holistic Health After Service
02:58 Why Isolation Hits Veterans After Transition
04:09 How Sully Found Team RWB
06:01 The Origin of Team RWB
08:04 Building the Fayetteville Community
10:58 Staying Connected Through Every Stage of Service
13:05 Sully’s Transition Out of the Army
14:03 Finding the Next Mission
16:27 Service, Identity and Finding New Purpose
21:17 Are We Misunderstanding the Veteran Problem?
22:35 Measuring Veteran Impact With Real Data
27:24 Building Community, Not Victimhood
30:48 How Movement Opens the Door to Connection
34:18 Mentorship and Helping the Next Veteran
36:16 Changing the Veteran Narrative
41:17 Team RWB Is More Than a Running Club
48:28 How to Join Team RWB
50:54 Upcoming Team RWB Events and Challenges
55:01 Stay Connected, Stay Active, Keep Serving
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The First Week After Getting Out
SPEAKER_01I think when we first transition or get that first week under our belt of not going to work, I think that's when it finally hits people of like, oh man, I'm not in a team chat anymore. I'm not information with my my dudes anymore. And then the isolation sets in. It can feel warm and comforting, but at what point do you realize that, like, oh shit, I stayed on the couch for far too long? They never talk about community. They never talk about building something or getting incorporated, getting insulated, being part of something the moment you get out of the military. I'm telling you, it's one of the most important things to everybody. You get out and uh you want to isolate for a little bit and it doesn't help anything. You have to do the opposite. You have to be willing to put yourself out there. This is the thing that people need to realize when they look at if you find yourself Googling for resources and you see team RWB, don't bypass it and think it's just a running club. I don't want to work out, I don't want to run. Like, no, you're getting plugged in with people that are like you.
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Why Team RWB Matters
SPEAKER_01Sully, welcome to Security Halt Podcast. Try number two. Here we go.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna do it this time.
SPEAKER_01Nothing better. There's uh nothing better, man. You know, uh team RWB, Red, White, and Blue, um, is has been doing something that I I champion a lot on this podcast: community and doing something physical. We tend to think that mental health, mental resilience is rooted just in here, but the reality is we're humans that thrive in connection. And then if our service has taught us anything, we thrive when we're doing something difficult. Uh so today, sir, I want you to not only talk about this foundation, but also talk about how you got involved and your journey through the military.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, I so I appreciate the opportunity. Um, tell a little bit about my story, but also the team R RWB or red, white, and blue story. Um, but it's exactly what you're talking about. It's it's not just a community or just a veteran, another veteran nonprofit. It really is this idea that, you know, was created like, let's get a movement going that's kind of wrapped around the idea of maintaining your own holistic health and wellness post-service. Um and the key to that is you got to stay physically fit. You got to stay connected with people that you care about and you know they care about you. Um, you got to continue to challenge yourself. So that sense of purpose needs to be maintained post-service once the uniform comes off. And then if you do those three things, ultimately your mental health is gonna be in a much better spot. It's not gonna fix everything, right? It's not a fix for everything, but it definitely gives you a better stability, a better structure. You know, you got folks that care about you. You know, you miss a you miss a 5k you said you were gonna show up to on a Wednesday night. Someone's probably gonna reach out and go, hey man, where were you at? Like, you know, it was raining, and is that why you didn't show up? You know, what's going on? You know, so you know, it's that kind of opportunity to, you know, we talk about all the time to continue your service post-service in in a unique way. You know, it's there's a lot of great organizations out there that you can volunteer your time and effort with. Um, we think, you know, ours is just as valuable, even though it seems like, oh, it's just a run club. But it takes it takes a it takes a battle buddy, right? It takes a community of people to help you do things, um, to keep you accountable. It gives you something back if you know that you know you're going and you're gonna help somebody get through that walk. Maybe they're just getting back off the couch, whatever. Um, so it is definitely a service just to be a member of Team Red, White, and Blue. Um, so you know, that's what we're doing. We're you know, it's it's getting people out, it's keeping them moving, it's keeping them connected, and ideally, you know, getting them through the tough times or making them even stronger for the better times, you know. So it's all about better.
SPEAKER_01I I think when we first transition or or get that first week under our belt of not going to work, I think that's when it finally hits people of like, oh man, like I'm not in a team chat anymore, I'm not in formation with my my dudes anymore. And then the isolation sets in. And it's a it can feel warm and comforting, but at what point uh do you realize that, like, oh shit, I stayed on the couch for far too long. I put on a couple of extra LBs, I can't do a jog anymore. And you have to be able to meet people where they're at. And I think that's one of the things I want to break the myth on today. I think some people see RWB and they think, oh man, that's not for me. They're all studs. That's different walks of life. You're meeting people where they're at. Um, and that's the thing that I enjoy about it. You see, you see that red t-shirt and you see people that are together. You see people that are out there doing something fun, and you will never see people that are like, get over here, you fat body, get over here. There's none of that. There's none of that shame. You're meeting people where they're at and just showing up. You see the joy in people. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02No, that's it's exactly what it's about, right? It's it's definitely about the community. You know, it's the and then the community is that Trojan horse for your physical fitness, you know, you gotta keep it going. So the uh yeah, and it's it's tough too.
Sully’s Origin Story With RWB
SPEAKER_02Like I was lucky, you know. If you talk about my team RWB journey, I started way back when I was, you know, a major and 13 years before I got out of the army, you know, I was a part of this whole thing when it was getting started. No way. Yeah, so I like I knew it was always gonna be there for me. So I knew, you know, that that's critical. So there was no gap, right? The uniform came off, but I knew I always had my red t-shirt. So the um, you know, that's important to us. You know, we're we're leaning back into that right now in terms of like the in-service community, letting them know that like it's never too early to like join something like Team RWB because the way we see it, your veteran journey starts the day you assess into the military, not the last day you get out. Right.
SPEAKER_01I mean, let's talk about that decision because that's something that we don't talk about or promote enough. Being willing to give back while you're still in. Like, I don't think people realize how powerful it is to be involved in a program and be locked set back with somebody that's still serving. Yeah. Like, like that's huge. What made you decide that while you're still serving? And that you have a lot of responsibilities and a lot of things to do as a major.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it was a senior major. I just maybe I was lieutenant colonel actually, because I was at SWIC as the G3. Um I got thrown into that job too. I was the CG's XO, the G3 had to get he stepped down. We'll just say that. And I got moved over to that job, um, like pre-battalion command. I was like, Yeah, everything's on fire. G3. Yeah, at SWIC, everything is on fire. The schoolhouse. So the uh, but no, so like we'll walk it back. So um when I was a major, um, I was in 1st Battalion, 3rd Special Forces Group, and our battalion S2 was a guy, Captain Mike Irwin. So Mike is the founder and kind of the brain behind this idea of Team Red, White, and Blue. We both left at the same time. I went up to SF Command. He went over to go to graduate school, the University of Michigan, um, because he was going to go teach at West Point. Um, so he's he's getting a degree in like psychology, and he's thinking, hey, I need to give back to all the people that are coming back from like Afghanistan. I want to start something for these folks that are coming back from combat, they're struggling with their transition out of uniform after that environment. Like, what can I do? So he reached out to the local VA and they had some conversations, and basically they said, Hey, veterans, you know, they they take off the uniform, they they go to the couch because they're like, I don't have to work out anymore, I can choose myself, not realizing that's not the best choice for themselves, but they think they're they think they're taking it easy, they they earn this right to take an E, which they do. Um they isolate, they self-isolate because of that. You know, they get and then because they don't have meaningful relationships, they don't have a sense of purpose, their physical fitness starts to drop, the mental health goes with it. So they're like, if you could come up with some idea to solve that, let me know. Mike being a big runner, he's like, what maybe there's this idea of like fitness and running, and what if we could create microcommunities that you can plug into the day you get out of the service, keep you moving. You'll have veterans in there, we'll have active duty guard reserve folks, we'll have family members and civilian supporters. Make it free to everybody. You just show up, and it the goal is to keep that veteran, you know, act they're active, their life's enriched, and they're moving forward. Better days ahead.
SPEAKER_01So that was like the leave it to a green bereda, develop a network.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the Mike figures this all out. He's you know, has some friends, a group of people, and uh he called me on the phone about six months into it and says, Hey, Sully, I'm gonna send you a box of these red t-shirts. We started this thing. I need you to get it going at Fayette in Fayetteville and on Fort Bragg. Um I'm like, what is it? And he explains it all. I was like, okay, how do I? He's like, he'll figure it out. You're a Greenberg. Like, this is gonna be good. And like Mike's point then, and he he claims he doesn't remember saying this, but he did. He said it on the phone call. He's like, hey, look, you're gonna need this when you get out just as much as the people that need it right now. So you need to invest now, so it's there for you, you know, whenever your career's over. He goes, You're probably gonna like go another 10 years, so just like or longer, which I did, you know, I went another like 13. And uh he's like, That's so you you're gonna want team red, white, and blue was basically his point. So I was like, okay, send me the things and I'll get this thing going. And it was awesome. It was uh, I mean, you know, it was the what that's 2010, you know, time frame, 11. You know, the nation's on fire for anything, you know, service-oriented. You had two wars going on in Afghanistan and Iraq, you know, guys and gals are still coming back and you know, bad shape or worse, you know. So, you know, it was all very relevant for people to get involved in these kind of community-based organizations that were helping out the folks that served. Um, so it was easy to get it going. And then you it wasn't it was nice to be a part of that too, you know, to feel even though you were in the service that you know, you're still taking care of those folks that, you know, were probably taking care of you before they got out, right? When as a younger, you know, service member. So um, yeah, it was a great thing to be a part of. I obviously got very busy, you know. I did that job uh as a three, I got picked to be a battalion commander, and then I picked my successor in Fayetteville to run the chapter because I was just like, I can't be a battalion commander and do this at the same time. But I always stayed a member. So I'd always show up at events when I could go, like the bigger runs or whatever, wear my t-shirt at every local 5K. Um, you know, later on I go to the war college, I join the team in Carlisle. So I always tried to find the RWB folks because I was a part of that community, right? And it's such a great thing just to plug into wherever you're at, whether you're still in service or out of service. Um, so it made it really easy for me when I knew I was going into transition, even before Mike calls me and says, Hey, you're gonna take over this thing for me and run the whole deal. Um it I knew that, well, wherever I go, whatever I'm doing, I can plug into Team RWB and go on a weekly, you know, jog, run, ruck, CrossFit event, whatever it is, and meet up with my people, my tribe, meet some people in the community, wear the t-shirt, and you know, so I was all in. Like I it totally made sense and it still does, obviously. But yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
Transition Programs Miss The Community Piece
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's one of the things that nobody really talks about. Like, and and I'm gonna say some harsh things about the transition people. So if you're listening and you're part of TAPS, please fast forward. It's gonna hurt your feelings. They never talk about community, they never talk about building something or getting incorporated, getting insulated, being part of something the moment you get out of the military. I'm telling you, it's one of the most important things. I felt it, uh, but I didn't feel it initially because I was still living at the near the flagpole. I was still living in Shalomar. I still had access to Green Beret buddies. The moment we PCS, because dual military couple, the moment we move to Prattville, Alabama, oh boy, did I feel it. You you tell yourself, I don't need a bunch of other Green Berets to feel like I'm good. And go to that first morning workout by myself. You don't see your friends, you're like, hmm, this is what they're talking about. Community. Yes. But it's it's you have to be proactive because I will tell you, it happens to everybody. You get out and uh you want to isolate for a little bit, um, and it doesn't help anything. You have to do the opposite. You have to be willing to put yourself out there. Go do a 5K, go do anything that puts you around other people. You know, um, one uh one of the greatest things I ever heard was from Magnus Johnson, another great Green Beret that's built an amazing organization. It's like we don't get guys plugged into a normal gym. We get guys and we make them go to a CrossFit gym because you have to be around other people. It's not about putting on your headphones and uh going to a stationary machine. Like you need to talk, you need to engage. And I'll tell you right now, Green Berets were the absolute friggin' worst.
SPEAKER_02No, we are, right?
SPEAKER_01You know, yeah. You know, going through this experience, having built this, having helped build it and watched it grow, when you finally had to take that time and take that journey, that bow, that exit, what was it like for you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah,
Losing The Uniform And Finding Purpose
SPEAKER_02I mean so I did almost 30, right? I went right up to when the army's like, we're done with you. You can't move anymore.
SPEAKER_01Speaking all the way to the limit, man.
SPEAKER_02You know, well, yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. You know, I had dreams of continuing on and getting promoted to general officer. That didn't happen. It's it gets very, very tight at the top in the special operations community. There's you know, a couple each year, and if you're not one of those guys, you're not one of those guys. But I had some great jobs, you know. I got to command joint soft in Lebanon as a colonel, then I got a security force assistance brigade. So I thought I was set up. Didn't happen for me, which was fine. Um, so I took it to the edge, and then I was just like, okay, what's next? And there was a period of time where I was like, man, I don't want to be a defense contractor. I don't like I Neil, I still need to work. Like, I know I need to continue to do something. Um, and it was fortunate enough for me. Again, Mike Irwin calls me and he's like, he's like, hey, Sully, um, I'm looking to do some other things. I had he had started it, handed it off to another, actually another green bread, Blaine Smith was the like the first executive director. Um, then John Penner took over for a little bit, then Mike came back, and then Mike was like, Hey, I I think you're it, I think you're the guy. So let's figure out a plan for you to be the person to replace me. So that really kind of started answering some questions for me that made stuff easy. Like I always tell people I hit the easy button because I just I just got to go work for team RWB full time, right? You know, which is which is incredible. Um it so that worked out really well for me. I mean, there was some you know nerves in terms of like, is it gonna work? Because we're fully remote, you know, am I gonna have like the connection that I had as like a volunteer? Um I mean there's I mean anytime you see something in the news or something else, like you you get the the itch, or you're like, man, I wish I had a uniform on right now. I'd love to see, I'd love to know what's going on right now with what whatever's going on, right? I have kids that are in, they're both captains. So I still have a touch point as a parent, but not really. You don't look that old, man. You don't look that comfortable. The uh yeah, no, so I have things Mantha and Jackson, they they're both they both went to West Point, graduated in 2020. They're both kind of yeah. So Jackson's an infantry captain, he's out in Hawaii. We're gonna go visit him actually tomorrow. Um and then Samantha. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Sully, how old are you? How old am I? 54. Yeah. You look better than I do. Damn it. I don't know about that. It's the cardiovascular.
SPEAKER_02I don't know about that. You gotta do cardio. I hate to break a cardio. But a minimum get on the stairs after you work out. I mean, you gotta do something. You gotta do the cardio. It's not clean living, it's cardio. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Smokes four packs a day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Right? No. The uh so I got connections, but again, you miss it. Like you miss not being in the uniform at times. Uh somebody asked me just maybe a month ago, I think it was a family member, like this stuff going on on Iran and other things. They're like, man, I bet you're happy you're not at in right now. And I was like, uh, it's exactly the opposite.
SPEAKER_01It is.
SPEAKER_02You want to be dealing with all this? I was like, I'd love to know what's going on and be a part of what's going on. Dude, I I had the pleasure.
SPEAKER_01I had the pleasure of talking to some um some officers here at ACSC. It was supposed to be a fireside chat, sort of speak, on mental health and resilience. And uh I got brought in as uh as one of the guest speakers. And we got in the talk and it was going great and everything, but then we got on the topic of Midnight Hammer, which is the big thing for you know the uh the Air Force community. That that's their win. Every single one of them immediately were like, I hate the fact I'm here. I should be in my job, I should be doing this. And I'm like, that's out of your control, man. You can't you can't put that burden and that pressure on your own head. This is your mission right now. And I think that speaks to a lot of veterans right now. Whenever, I mean, for 20, for almost 30 some odd years, that was your lived experience. You're the guy. You were the guy. You're the guy. We're calling, we're dialing in to speak, to speak to him and pitch our missions. Of course, you're gonna have that idea of like, oh man, I should be there. I could be of help. I could be, but dude, you got a more important mission now, I would argue.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And that's that's that's one of the things that made this easier, right? Because like I have a service-oriented mission. We have a goal. It's like we got to make this thing better every day. If we're not actually like, you know, doing the things we say we're doing as Team RWB, then like, okay, let's figure it out. Let's roll up our sleeves and get after it. So the uh, and that's the great thing about the organization itself. I mean, there's only like 30 paid employees right now. We're hiring some new folks, um, a little bit of growth, but it's all volunteers. It's all the community, right? So it's like, how do you help those people do what you know they can do each day to get people out, get them moving, give them the tools, you know, whether it's updating our application so people can do stuff online and digitally when they're not close to a chapter or get the chapters more resources so they can make better events. Um that's what it's all about, right? And it's fun. Like me, again, I get to wear a uniform every day. It's a shirt that says Team RWB on it, you know. It's not always the red one. Sometimes it's like this one and and running shorts, you know. And I go to the gym or I go to the running club and try to live the mission, you know. So that's that's what's helping me, you know, stay young. Yeah. The uh yeah, so it's it it is awesome. Like I to have this as a like my second journey um is is pretty important to me. I mean, I grew up in an environment where my parents were definitely service-oriented and like you know, you give back to your community, so you get just as much or more out of that than like any monetary gain in life. So that was always a big thing as well. So yeah, having Team RWB now made my transition so much easier. Not just because I was a member, but now being the guy in charge.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. But but don't get it twisted, guys. Being part of a nonprofit, especially like in the leadership, like I can't imagine the stress of running an organization.
SPEAKER_02It's not as bad as like the stress. I'm I couldn't compare it to some of the stress I had in the in the service, especially as you kind of got higher and bigger things, bigger budgets, bigger problems. Um but the um yeah, the the thing that was hardest, and it still is, is getting used to know. Because you're I mean, and it's not and it's not a bad thing because I mean you're competing against so so many other good causes and other good opportunities, and there's only so much money to go around or so many people's time and effort to put towards, you know, the the mission that you have, you know, and you and you believe that yours is the one, you know, every single time you you go and you have to when you go to sell it or try to get people to come out, you know, and when you when you know the you then it it makes every win that much more special because you got to celebrate those small ones, you know, or even some of the big ones. So yeah, it can get pretty stressful because I mean you set goals and in this environment, if you don't hit them, you you know, that you don't have the resources, you know, for all the people on staff or you know, for the chapters to do what they want to do. So that kind of stuff drives, you know, your thinking. We constantly got to get fresh and try to keep things going because the next generation of Jeteran uh veterans, they don't see themselves at the chapters that I go to, you know, like they're like, Oh, those are all the Afghan and Iraq guys. So we're gonna they're gonna sit around and tell stories where they run, you know. It's like, you know, and I just I just wanna talk about whatever, you know, they're 30 year olds that are getting out the nut. They weren't even born or something, you know, 9-11 type of situation. So we gotta make that fresh and new. So it's a constant like kind of grind of trying to figure that stuff out. But it, I mean, for folks like us, it's like it's exactly what we need. You know, just give us these problems. It's all for a good reason and continue to get after it.
Funding A Mission Without The “Sad Story”
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's also, I would imagine it's difficult for people that are under that don't understand the problem sets that our veterans are facing when it comes to like speaking to a donor or sponsor because they see things like, for example, not calling anybody out, disclaimer, but you see organizations like Wounded Warrior Project. Their marketing is very simple. They show a veteran with a combat injury, and it's very much highlighted, and you know that, okay, by and large, my donation dollars are going. You see it. You see a veteran that's injured on a wheelchair. Like, okay, I'm donating to help that veteran live a better life. But they don't understand that Teen Red, Wat, and Blue is also doing that because they see it as you said earlier. Oh, it's just a running club. It's it's get together. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, this is just as vital. This is just as vital. But it doesn't have the same optics, and people can't, it takes engaging with somebody and talking to them and showing them the data, the information. Like, since you've been there, like how has it been extremely difficult? Is it is it getting better trying to like sell and and amplify that message of what connection really does for a veteran?
Proving Impact With Surveys And Data
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think for us it's gotten a little bit better because we've gotten really we're getting better at understanding our impact, like and being able to capture it, and then how we can portray that to you know, to donors, investors who want to see a return on their dollar, right? And make sure it's going towards like what it's we say it's going towards. The uh, because again, like initially it's like, well, you guys just get together and run in a park. Anybody can do that for free. What's so special about what you guys do? Um, so you gotta explain to them in terms of what the importance of communities, those connections, the stuff we do with our application in terms of like health and wellness challenges that model the right behavior, you know. You know, the person thinks they're just winning a little badge, but then they're learning that they need to do all these things to have good sleep over a 30-day period. You know, so we we have that kind of stuff going on in our programming. But really, when I was first coming in, it the discussion was like, we got to capture this a little bit better. And we put together on our own like a six-month study with 60 new members. Um the goal was like, hey, you you sign up, pick a goal, and then just do RWB. Do what you want to do, whether it's on in the app or go into you know local chapter stuff. Um we asked the the participants, we, you know, we're gonna take your blood, we're gonna do body mass index, we're gonna give you a Fitbit so we can track your sleep and some other things. Um, you know, and just let's just do the thing for six months. We didn't tell anybody like, hey, Sully is one of the people in the study. So we tried to keep it like, hey, we're not gonna tell anybody you're a study, and so no one, you're not gonna get any special treatment um other than those other things do kind of motivate you because you're being tracked, right? But the blood markers, you can go back and look at our six, like everything got better. Just from people getting off the couch and doing the couch to 5K program, or just walking 40 minutes a day, thinking about trying to get enough sleep each night, drinking some more water each day, like all those things that we continue to promote through our community showed like, hey, this got better. The other thing we've been doing for years is there's like a like a member survey we call the Enriched Life Survey that was developed by the folks at Syracuse um over a decade ago. And we ask everybody to sign up. That's like the one like kind of barrier to entry because it's free to everybody, even civilians. Just you know, so you know, take the ELS so you can have a baseline of where you start. And it gives you a score on your physical health, your mental health, your sense of belonging, your personal relationships, and your sense of like uh purpose. So kind of like those four pillars. Um, and we've gotten into the practice of getting people to take those multiple times over their time at RWB, which then gives us the data to show, you know, like 60% of the people that join, it's a self-reported survey, but they're self-reporting like significant gains in their overall kind of like health and these pillars just by being a member of the community, right? Yeah, so being able to show that is is really kind of changing for us the way to like talk about ourselves, you know, and break it down. You know, we we went as as far as like we got on average about 30,000 people that participate in RWB over a a year. Here's our budget. So it costs about $230 per person, and we can, you know, and then show this is how much more well and healthy we can make them based on our the way we're measuring it. People are starting to respond to that kind of data, and it kind of it makes a lot more sense. They're like, oh, okay, this makes a lot more. I see what you're saying. We're gonna add in. Um, I don't know how popular it'll be because everybody hates PT tests, but we're adding in the ability to do like a physical assessment that will live in your profile, you know. We're calling it the no-fail PT test because it's just to give you a baseline, and then you can take it however often throughout the year to see if, you know, how's my one minute of plank? You know, can I do or how long can I hold a plank? How many times can I do, you know, how fast can I run a mile or walk a mile? It doesn't matter how fast you do it. Let's just get go a mile. Um so we'll have that data, and then we're actually here about a month out from being able to link your wearable data into our application as well. Yeah. So if you permission that, we'll be able to see that as well. And that'll start to give us a better understanding of like, okay, Sully joined at this. Here was his, you know, something just as basic as his step count. And six months later, you know, he's now 10,000 steps a day because he's doing stuff with TMRWB. So I mean that's that's where we go with it. Again, it's really basic. You know, we're not a medical provider. We're, you know, we don't we provide community, a sense of purpose, and physical fitness, you know, is really what it is, you know, um, which people need. Like it's the baseline to like everything you need when it comes to like your health and wellness journey, the way we see it. So I think it's starting to resonate. The other problem for us, like when you talk about the money side, and like, you know, we work with Wounded Warrior Project, and again, it's a little bit easier for them just based on optics in their name, right? People know what they're doing with that money, like when it goes to um, and what we we refuse to do is victimize veterans, right? Like team RTP, like like we actually like we're like the group that calls veterans out. We're like, oh, really? You don't feel well today? Then how about you go for a run?
SPEAKER_01Grab your shoes and let's go.
SPEAKER_02Right? Let's go. Get those endorphins going, get the chemicals going. Like, two court meet me out back. Right? It's gonna make you feel better, trust me. That's nuts. You know what I mean? We're not gonna do that. It's true, though. It's true. Oh, for $5 a day, you could save this veteran's life. No, it's gonna be for $5 a day, you can help us get this guy off the couch. Yeah, because he knows better, or she does, right? Like, that's my like my whole point is like the the military, like veterans are like the best resource in America because the government poured into these people how to be be the best teammate, how to take like minimal guidance and an idea of what somebody thinks something's supposed to look like at the end of the day, and they're like, make it happen there, you know. You know, and and you you and your team have the authority to try to figure it out as long as this happens at the end of this, right? So, like to be able to adapt, to understand things, to be motivated, to get after it, put in the work. The problem is like we step away from it, right? Because it is, it's work, but you know, and and I'm always like, come on, guys, you know what resiliency looks like. You know what it means to get off the couch. Like, we just gotta do it. And I'm gonna help you do it. I'm gonna show up. I'm not gonna make fun of you, like to your point. I'm not gonna give you a bad time. There'll be some veteran humor that everybody else will maybe be like, Well, you're being really mean to that guy. It's like, no, he he gets it.
SPEAKER_01It's true. Like, we are probably one of the greatest tribes to belong to because of the the dark humor, and we get each other. And we know light ribbing, and we know how to you know push the right buttons. Uh, and I think with the right people that get involved with these causes, they know how to push somebody the right way. Not to get them out just for one run and send them running away in in anger and despair back to their house, but to keep them coming because we we miss that brotherhood. We miss that feeling of belonging. And there's nothing greater than having people that are willing to call you on your bullshit. Uh, that are willing to say, like, hey man, like you could sit on your couch and go through another couple rounds of eating your feelings, or, or, or grab your shoes and just meet us for a jog. Like, because that's one of the things that it's we we have to kill this myth that your physical well-being is not tied to your mental health.
Fitness As A Gateway To Better Mental Health
SPEAKER_01Like it they're connected, they're both connected. If you can get somebody out there, because I've seen more success in this, people are very hesitant to go to a therapist. They just are. But if you could get them out and get a win, just get a win of showing them like where they were at last week versus this week. Hey, man, like you were able to go for a mile. Last week you weren't even able to jog them out. Hell yeah, let's do that. Get them insulated and start naturally peeling back the layers of like, yeah, you know, this was the first thing I started doing to get better. But then eventually I said, you know what? I'm tired of still dealing with anxiety and depression. I'm gonna go talk to somebody. Oh, really? You did that? Yeah, man. Go talk to somebody right now. I can I can give you the card. It's an easy conversation when you get more people involved. Uh, our natural inclination is to be rooted in our own belief, whether it's wrong or right. But when you get other people that are sitting there championing other ideas, it's easier to normalize. It's easier to get guys to be willing to say, you know what, yeah, you're right. Why don't I get, you know, go talk to somebody? Why don't I use better help? Why don't I use all these resources or free to me to get a little bit better? Like it's easy to do that when you got people in your corner that only want to see the best for you. Um, and chances are the people in our life that don't want the best for us aren't willing to go out and run. So it helps us get rid of that, trim the fat on that network.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's true. No, and I mean, we kind of see ourselves as that like that community and that hub for all that support, right? So I mean, like Moon Water Prize is perfect. Like they're they're open to everybody. Everyone thinks you have to be the what you know, the person that's getting carried. You might, you know, mentally you might need to be getting carried right now, but you're not you're not allowing yourself to do that, or you may even not even know that it's for you, you know, as a post-G Watt veteran. And we have means because we're partnered with them. It's like, you know, you show up at the 5K and keep like, hey man, the 5K is not getting it there. Like you're better now, you're getting faster, but you still are a little bit angry, Sully. Have you thought about calling the Warrior Care Network or hitting one of these other like agencies? Like, you know, we got the information, you can link right to them from the website, you know what I mean? So it's it's that kind of those kind of things we hope that we're providing as well. Because RWB, we kind of see ourselves as the community that's always there for you. Like you can come and go based on what's going on in life. You know, you get busy with your kids and your family. I don't have time for the 5K. Great, but keep moving, you know, and then you know, we'll be here when you guys when you when you do need us a little bit more again, right? When the LBs come back, you know, or maybe you need something more significant. Like you do need to go talk to somebody, or maybe you have a brain injury that you didn't you don't know you're dealing with or something. Let's get you that help. But guess what? That's a 60, 90-day program. When it's over, you need to come back to us and continue to do your 5Ks and you're walking and hanging out, you know, because you know, ideally you're there to help the next guy that was like you or gal that needs that kind of service. So, I mean, that's what we hope we're doing for for the folks that need a little bit more. And then hope, you know, and again, it's like you don't think you need anything, you're wrong. Like, I take like to your point, take the headphones off, get together for 30 minutes with somebody and do a workout, go for a walk. It's gonna do more for you than you actually thought it was. You know, that's the other trick. We like like, hey, do some service for somebody and join Team RWB. They need you as a part of the community. They you show up and you realize after a couple times, you're like, man, I think I needed this more than what I thought I was doing for the people that were already here. So yeah, it's an amazing kind of idea and group of folks when it all comes down to it.
Mentorship And A Better Veteran Narrative
SPEAKER_01I think mentorship is something that I talk about a lot, but not enough people put enough value in it. Um, you have to be willing to explore that aspect of your life. Like, look, you for you were enlisted and even for officers, like a vast majority of your career was pouring back into others' cup, was helping others figure things out and seeing them win and achieve things. And then you clock out and then you go home, and you know, being a good husband, being a good father, you're taking care of your kids, there's still a mentor in you. There's still somebody that wants to help somebody out. Nurture that. There's so much more out there for us to do in this second chapter. One of the biggest things we need to do is be willing to do an about face and help the next guy or gal that's suffering. Like if you get to 70% of your own bullshit and you're doing better, and you're tackling all of your demons, and your family actually likes being around you, your kids are excited when you come home, you need to say, holy shit, that this new this new version of me is awesome. Let me go back and help somebody else from my lived experience. Let me turn around and help somebody figure this shit out before they have that downward spiral, before they need to go to a treatment center. Like we think, like we need the nonprofits out there. We need the the great mechanisms that are helping people, but none of that shit works without you, without the listener, without you out there, out there that actually does the work of connecting with human beings. Like these are all just catalysts for building a community, for being a good person. That's what we need. Like the the old stereotype of the broken GWAP veteran needs to go away. Don't be the angry guy. Don't be that guy. Nobody needs that. Be the happy version, be the good version, be the good steward of the veteran experience. Because I'm telling you, people are tired of the broken, angry veteran trope. They don't want to see that shit. No, they don't. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And it's sad because again, I again, I think it like our veterans writ large, is that like it's the greatest resource in America. Like, it's getting smaller and smaller as the service gets smaller. All volunteer force, you know, less than 1% of the population. But I'm telling you, I mean, it doesn't matter if they served in combat or not, like those folks are going to be some of your best workers, your best teammates, your best leaders. They're gonna look at things a little bit different, apply a little bit of guidance and and get after it, right? You know, I tell employers that all the time. I'm like, you should be hiring veterans. They're they're not broken. Like that narrative, it got pumped up, you know, and it and and for all the right reasons to get it, you know, I think some eyeballs on a problem that needed to be addressed. But at the same time, like don't let it become the self-fulfilling prophecy for like, you know, because there's there's just too many like examples of like just the greatness that veterans can do for the country that, you know, and it's not this drag on our resources or all these problems, you know. And it's also bad for the services, right? Because I mean, there's moms and dads who are like trying to make a decision with their children, like what do they do post-high school? And if they're like all they see is a bunch of, you know, you know, people dragging their heads and out of shape and having all these issues and depressed or whatever, like they're gonna be like, Don't, I don't want to get my kid to that. You know, they want to see the they want to see the post-service like that set that guy up or that gallop for success. And now they, you know, they did their time uniform, now they're off running their own business, or they're you know, doing their next thing, you know, in that service industry or whatever it is. The uh like that's what we need, because I mean we we need a strong military and we need parents to believe that like that service is actually gonna help their child, not hurt their child.
SPEAKER_01So exactly. That's great, great point and well said. It's not about optics of of everybody being damaged beyond like, look, you're gonna do things that's that may make it harder for you to remember things. There may be some blast exposure, but at the end of the day, like it's still an amazing career. It's still a great job. There are amazing things that come out of service, and you're still gonna have a career afterwards, and you're gonna be a force multiplier in those positions. Uh it's incredible when I when I you know talk with my friends and see their wins. Like, you know, one of them is recently got hired at a company and promoted, he's already gotten promoted twice and it's been less than friggin' four or five months. Like, insane. Because the dude is an insane achiever. The dude understands systems. The dude was a team sergeant. Of course he's gonna be a high achiever. Like when he called me and told me what he was doing now, I'm like, I had no doubt. No doubt you were gonna get promoted. Did not picture you getting promoted twice before the end of the fiscal year, but hell yes, dude. Yeah. Because we're hard workers. We understand how to be team players, and we we call things the way we see it, and we try to improve. Like I have yet to see a friend of mine that I was able to, you know, help them on their job hunt, come back and say, Yeah, I'm just not doing it. I'm just sucking life. No, everybody gets a great position and everybody does better than the people behind them because we care. We want to see the systems and organizations succeed. Um, and I think that goes back to being able to have exposure to good community. Like all the people that I've just talked about, they're not isolated. They're part of another program that put people together, took them on an experience, or put them in a place where they can sit down and network, and they kept in touch. They started working on things, they started reaching out and figuring out like, hey, who should I apply to? Oh, you should apply to this company. I was there, and then they helped me get this other job. What a novel idea that building a community can help us get a better job or have a better, better situation.
SPEAKER_02No, I mean, it's what it takes. And it's getting harder and harder, right? You know, we I mean, the the your phone doesn't help you as much as it should, you know. It could that, you know, so I mean it's just yeah, all these competing interests that are to that keep you by yourself, you know, and it's like we got to break out of that and remember that like it's the person on your left and right that you can rely upon to help you get forward, you know. I mean, it literally is like that military idea of like that's who's gonna get you past this, not you by yourself, but someone on your left and right, you know what I mean? So be there for them, they'll be there for you. Like that, it's just I think that's what we gotta lean into when it when we talk about service and what we do, you know, and what we did. Because it's powerful, you know. And so 100%.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Like this is the thing that people need to realize when they look at, you know, when you if you find yourself Googling for resources and you see team RWB, don't bypass it and think, oh, it's just a running club. I don't want to work out, I don't want to run. Like, no. You're getting plugged in with people that are like you, that may be a little bit ahead of you in their journey, and that could potentially lead you to other opportunities. Yes, you meet up, you hang out, you meet each other, you do the initial veteran butt sniff, figure everybody out. But guess what? By and large, it's a connection platform. You're gonna meet somebody in your local area that may know of somebody that's hiring, that may know of a resource you don't know about. That's what you need to think of it as. It's not at the surface level, go a little deeper. Think about all the things that you need in your life. You need a new job, you need to need a pivot, you need to exit the career field you're in. You're not gonna get answers by just staring at your phone, sitting on your couch, watching Netflix. You're gonna get these breaks and these introductions by meeting real people. And yeah, I'm a big proponent of LinkedIn, but virtual cup of coffee can only do so much. At some point, you're gonna have to sit down and talk to a real human being. And what better way to do it than actually getting out and doing something good for yourself? Like that's that's a no brainer.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's what it's all about. I mean it's not easy. Like I you know, we all it I mean discomfort.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I guess if you're an extreme extrovert, you know, you're you're like, Yeah, I want to go meet new people all the time. But the uh You know, it's hard to get out there and do stuff, especially again, especially for the military person who remembers how fast they ran their two mile or how many pull-ups they did in the Marine Corps or whatever it is, right? The uh old you I'm never getting back to that. Yeah, probably not. You're getting older, you but that's fine. You don't need to get back to that. Like, but get out, move, enjoy yourself, challenge yourself a little bit. You know, that's that's what we you know, what we think. Yeah, sure. There's people doing crazy stuff. I'm one of them, you know, that are like, eh, let's go run 20 marathons in a year. Let's uh you know, let's do something, you know. But there's also the other people like that guy's crazy, don't go with him. I'm gonna go over here. Yeah, we're gonna walk a 5k and then we're gonna eat a cup of coffee. It's gonna be awesome. Gonna do a 5K light jog.
SPEAKER_01It's flavors for everybody, man. It's not everything is gonna be, you're not gonna do if you don't want to do the army temp or the JFK, you don't want to do the army uh runs, you don't want to do all these the Boston marathon or any of these huge endeavors, that's cool. Like there are different options for people, and you're gonna meet these individuals at your local chapter. That's the thing. It's I I would argue, and I'll I'll put money on it. Denny will pay you a hundred bucks if you go to your local chapter and they're all endurance freaks and they make you run a 50 miler day one. If that happens to you, hit me up.com. I will pay you. I guarantee you it's not like that. I guarantee there's gonna be the freak athletes, and then there's gonna be Jim or Bob, who's still a freaking two-pack a day smoker, just looking for a 5k run, a cup of coffee, and some new some new friends, somebody to talk to, somebody to to jog a few laps with. I think we just have to challenge ourselves. Like there are a lot of interventions out there, and I won't knock anything. Everybody should be open to try whatever works for you. But I will say, from my from my lived experience, for me, I've gotten more from talking to people and being active than leaning straight on pharmaceuticals. That's that's just me. That's I'm just gonna leave it at that. I'm just gonna tell you there's more to your mental resilience and your physical well-being than just taking prescriptions. Their community is part of it. Physical challenges are part of it. Doing hard things. There's no organism, there's no entity on this planet that gets better just by being sedentary and never being forced to do anything. It just isn't it just isn't part of life. You gotta force yourself to be uncomfortable in order to have growth. Uh and this is the primary mechanism. This is getting out there and doing something uncomfortable. You will do two things for sure if you get involved with our team RWB. You'll have to do the initial meetup with somebody, which is awkward, uncomfortable, if you've been sitting at Fort Couch for a while, and then you'll have to do a physical event with somebody, and that will be uncomfortable. But on the backside, just like a basic training in every other military school and military event, you're all gonna be sitting there laughing, joking, frigging, planning the next one. Gar and fucking tee it. Guarantee fucking tee it. If you told me that I had to go do selection all over again tomorrow, I would be excited for it. Because I'll tell you why. You're gonna do hard shit with people, and at the end of the day, you're gonna be in a bay laughing your ass off. I and getting the best sleep of your life. Hard things breed excellence and brotherhood. They just do. Best moments of your life and your military career were probably when you were out there sucking in the woods, doing something miserable. Unless you were S1, it's a completely different world. I won't say what it was for you. Like collating files together, stapling, maybe. Maybe that was awesome too.
SPEAKER_02As a lieutenant, I may have been a battalion S1 at one point. So you would have insight. I'm old enough to like field artillery, armor, like it was those officers that were adjudants. Like, we didn't even have an S2. That was a field artillery guy. Like, so yeah. So as a senior lieutenant, I'd come out of like the battery. This is before I go SF, right? I I was an intel, I was the S2. I was like, this is easy. I can I I'll I'll do this. I'll read up on Russian doctrine, you know. When to fire the cannons, this is gonna be awesome. Yeah, the S1 got a DUI, got fired, I got made the S1, and it was the worst like eight months of my life before I went off to my you know Captain's career course or yeah, the advanced course. The yeah, because I I own the mail room. I like had a I had the US post office, like they almost shut down our mail room because it wasn't like done right. Uh like that was miserable. Like that's what I joined the army to do? No. Selection. Yeah. I was like, if I ever get made an S1 again, I will drive a Humvee through a building. Yeah. I always I was probably one of the nicest like commanders to like their S1 ever because I knew what those guys were going through. But yeah, it's probably you're gonna get a call like, no, I was his S1, he was not nice. But anyways.
SPEAKER_01Oh man. Dude,
How To Join And Upcoming Events
SPEAKER_01Sully, thank you so much for being here, brother. But uh, before I let you go, brag about Team RWB. Tell us about your chapters. What do you guys have coming up? And uh, I think there's a big event coming up. You guys got something on the pipeline, right? We do.
SPEAKER_02We got well, about once a quarter we have a pretty big event, but we got a couple big things coming up for the rest of the year and then into next year. So, first off, if you want to know more, go to teamrwb.org or Google Team Red, White, and Blue or Team RWB. It'll pop up. Um, and that's our website. Um, and you need to join, right? So you'll see on our site, like before we try to hit you with a donation button, it's the join button. We want people to join first, you know, and they can, if they love it, then they can give us some money later. But the idea is like it's free to everybody active duty, guard, reserve, civilian supporters, civilian family members, but veterans are the mission. Like, that's what builds the community. So everybody can join for free. Um, and if you're military affiliated, you'll get a free red t-shirt, which I should have worn today. But the uh our signature free red t-shirt you get as a and then we're working that our even our civilian supporters will get their first t-shirt for free. Um, and then you you get into it. So the way to join, though, you got to download the app. We have an application that's our own. It's on the Google store and it's on the uh Apple store, and it allows us to co-locate you to the closest chapter in your area. We have 150 plus chapters nationwide. You may find yourself in what we call a gray space, but that's fine because you're a part of the you know online community and you can still be involved via the app. The app has very much of a community feel, social media feel. There's no algorithm. It's just you follow who you follow. There's no ads, no one's gonna try to push an agenda on you other than get healthy and fit. Um, multiple activity groups, everything from uh mind body wellness, which is what we call yoga, to trick veterans into being, you know, doing some stuff that helps out their flexibility to running, to cycling, to crossfit, to rucking. There's a group for everything in the app, and they're running challenges constantly, kind of like Strava or something like that, where you can earn badges and challenge yourself daily. Um, you'll find your chapter, your local chapter there in the events right there in the event app. You can geolocate if you're traveling across the United States to see what other team RWB people are doing. Um, all exists in our app, and it's a great way just to get connected and get going within the community. Um we'll ask you to take that enriched life survey and it'll give you your baseline kind of understanding of how we see your health and wellness. Um, so it's it's a great way to get connected, awesome way to stay you know tied into the military community as a veteran, and it'll keep you moving each and every day. So I highly encourage it. We do one-off like big events, like one each quarter. Um, so the next thing that's coming up is September, and we've always done big stair climbs on September 11th. So this this year being the 25th anniversary, we're working with the New York Mets. They gave us the stadium. So if you go on run signup.com and put in stairclimb, it'll come up for the stairclimbs for 9-11. And you'll see in TMRWB and a thousand folks, you know, sign up for free. If you want to buy the stairclimb t-shirt, that's how we'll raise some money. But it's free to go and do the same event as everybody else. And from 8 to 10:30 on the morning of September 11th, 25th anniversary, we'll be walking those stairs like the firefighters did 25 years ago. So that's a big event coming up. And then if you're not in the New York area, there's regional stair climbs happening all over America that we're a part of that you'll be able to find in the app. Um, and then the day after 9-11, we're partnering with Where Blue Run to Remember, who's another fitness kind of organization, but they focus on memorialization, started by a gold star spouse, Lisa Hallett. We're gonna partner with them and we're gonna move a flag on the 12th of September to kind of signify the day the country came together post-9-11 25 years ago, and move that 250 miles, that flag over five days from New York City to DC to the future home of the GWAP Memorial. So Lisa, myself, and her ops officer are gonna be with the flag all five days. So say some prayers that Sully can go 250 miles in five days. Um then we'll have runners come out and people can come out and run with us and be a part of that flag relay in September. We'll do an event for November, our Wad for Warriors around Veterans Day. And then I encourage everybody to keep an eye out. Veterans Day sign up starts for the February event next year, which is the GWAT 100. We challenge everybody to move 100 miles over the month of February. It's the shortest month of the year, it's the darkest month of the year, it's usually one of the coldest months of the year. So you got to get out and move at least three and a half miles a day for 28 days. You can do it on a bike, you could do it indoors, on a treadmill, whatever. But the goal is can I move 100 miles in 28 days? It's an event we inherited last year. We do storytelling around it. We're starting with the Iraq theater because it came out of an event called the Taji 100, if you know Camp Taji.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So last year was Central Iraq. So if you got the medal, you're gonna Central Iraq medal. This year is gonna be Southern Iraq, and then that the year after that will be northern, and you'll have the whole the pieces and you'll have your medal set for Iraq, and then we're gonna go to Afghanistan. And we tell stories of the veterans and the mileage, like there's a little mileage chart on Run Sign Up, so you kind of move across the map. Um, so significant events are tied to significant events that people did downrange during that timeframe. So it's an awesome event. 25,000 Americans signed up last year for the GWAT 100. We're hoping to crank that up to about 40, maybe even 50,000 people this year doing it. You get the challenge, have a team. So it's like team mileage against other teams across America. We actually had more active duty members and units sign up last year than veterans. So that was kind of cool for us because we're really leaning back into like, hey, let's recruit the next generation of Eagles for Team RWB. Um, because just like me, we want them to know they can put on that red t-shirt day zero of being a veteran and have a group of people that are ready to get them through that next phase of life. So those are the big things we got going up. Again, go to teamrwb.org. Check us out at uh you know team RWB on Instagram is like probably where we do most of our social media stuff. We just launched a T Talk uh T Tal TikTok channel. Um and we're also on LinkedIn. But yeah, highly encourage everyone to get out and get moving.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, man. It's uh one of the best things you can do for your well-being. And um it's free. And you get a cool t-shirt. Uh so guys, you know the spiel. This episode's
Final Challenge To Download The App
SPEAKER_01almost over. Head on to the episode description, click those links, send a friend request, follow them, share their content, but most importantly, sign up today. Go to the app store. I'll wait. Download the app, sign up, get that free t-shirt. All right, you did it. I'll do you one better. If you're in Northwest Florida, I'm gonna be back in the area. Let's run together, let's do something. I like jog, if you will. I'm not gonna try to break any records. Savage loop won't be happening for me this year, but the very next year, uh, you and I can train together. We can do it. I'll be there for you. You have to run real slow. I'm not uh quite running shape. I'm more of a rower these days. It's more uh upper body. So row machines are nice, but um, I'm gonna get back in the train. I think I think there's a team nearby me in Shalomar, Florida. I think there is. Take a look. Yeah. I don't know. That's a lot of that's a lot of responsibility. More of a virtual coach these days. Sully, thank you so much for being here, man. Thank you for what you guys have built. And uh again, guys, please do me a favor, head on over to the episode description, click those links, send a friend request, share the content, sign up. Uh, I'm no I'm not joking. I'll be signing up for the Northwest Florida chapter because I like to do new things. It's um it's time we all get back into better shape, especially running shape. I'm not joking. I like rowing, but uh I'd like to set my sights on another um attempt at the Savage Loop, and I'm not gonna do there. I'm not gonna do it if I uh if I don't get back to running shape and uh I need to push myself. So if you're part of the Northwest Florida team, hit me up. Let's uh let's go jog together. Sully, thanks for being here. Thank you all next time. Then take care.
