Johnathan Griswold of Black Rifle Coffee on Storytelling, Authenticity, and Building a Creative Career | Security Halt! Podcast Ep. 454

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 How do you create artwork that resonates with the military community without ever wearing the uniform? In Episode 454 of the Security Halt! Podcast, Johnathan Griswold, Senior Illustrator at Black Rifle Coffee Company, joins Deny Caballero to discuss creativity, storytelling, authenticity, branding, and how his work has become deeply connected to the veteran community.

Updated About the Guest

About Johnathan Griswold

Johnathan Griswold is the Senior Illustrator at Black Rifle Coffee Company and founder of Grizzly River Art. Known for his distinctive storytelling style and highly detailed illustrations, Johnathan has helped shape one of the most recognizable brands in the veteran community while inspiring artists and creators to build careers rooted in authenticity, craftsmanship, and purpose.

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Chapters:

00:00 Meet Johnathan Griswold: Artist, Storyteller, and Creative at Black Rifle Coffee

03:37 How Fatherhood Inspires Johnathan's Creative Work

04:12 Connecting with the Veteran Community Through Art

05:21 Why Military Culture Inspires Powerful Storytelling

06:51 The Story Behind Black Rifle Coffee's Iconic Artwork

09:00 Finding Inspiration in Military History and Culture

11:02 Why Authentic Storytelling Gives Art Its Soul

13:13 Building an Art Career Through Social Media

15:05 Why Authenticity Always Wins in Creative Work

16:48 Hidden Details and the Creative Process

18:59 AI, Technology, and the Future of Art

21:02 Respecting Artists and the Value of Creative Work

22:52 Recovering from Injury and Finding a New Path

27:13 From Construction to Professional Illustration

32:01 Joining Black Rifle Coffee Company

36:48 Building a Career as a Professional Artist

43:05 Going Viral Without Losing Your Authenticity

48:04 Community, Storytelling, and Shared Experiences

52:00 What's Next for Johnathan Griswold

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Transcript

Souls, Art, And The AI Question

SPEAKER_04 0:00

What is it that sets us apart from every other species on the planet? Our souls. Right? Who we are as humans, I think I AI is a great tool, and it's like anything. I think it can be utilized. And I think just completely being rebellious against against it, and this is just a personal opinion. I don't think that's the correct way. I think it can be used for certain things. But when it comes to art, if it doesn't have soul behind it, I mean that's what makes art art. It's not always just, oh, this is like a great piece of work.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

It's the story behind it. It's so true. Like I was just in France for the 82nd University of Normandy. Got to go to Notre Dame. And every church, every chapel I went into, every piece of artwork in there, like it moves you. Like you can be the most, you know, non-artistic person, and you're gonna pull out your phone and you're gonna just sit there in awe of everything you see. But the same same can't be said for AI stuff. The stuff that's being mastered. You're not gonna walk in that you'll never walk into a museum for AI art. It's not gonna be

Quick Sponsor And Guest Welcome

SPEAKER_02 1:04

a thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

That Security Halt Media is looking for clients that need video editing. Have them reach out to info at securityhaltmedia.com.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Jonathan Griswald, welcome to Security Podcast, brother.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

How's it going? Good, man. I I appreciate you. Uh appreciate the invite. I'm uh super honored and um, you know, I don't take this stuff lightly. It it means a lot. So I appreciate you having me on.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Dude, absolutely. Um, you like I said in the the the cold email or uh social media intro, um, your art has been part of the GWAT uh era, and so many of us have worn your designs. Uh shout out to the Tacticoc, the Black Rifle Coffee. Yeah. That was like literally almost everybody I saw kidding up before like, I mean, it's literally seared into my mind, see how many dudes wore that on deployments, and it's just like that's

GWAT Humor And Veteran Storytelling

SPEAKER_02 2:00

it's our humor. It's it's part of who we are. And and and you're part of a very small group of artists that really understand and speak of it, but we have to understand that people don't have to be within your specific community. They don't have to be born of your platoon, they don't have to be born of your MOS, they don't have to be part of your team room to say that they can speak to what identifies like within you as something that's cool, something that you enjoy. And we see it through everything you've created, from Black Rifle Coffee to the stuff you've done for Jack Carr. Your artwork is insane. And one of the things that I like to do on this show is be able to bring in other professionals from every other different walk of life that have that passion, that drive, and that tenacity that speaks to the young veteran entrepreneur that's going back out there into that second chapter of their life to figure out like, hey, I may have been this in this period of my life, but maybe I can venture into this. Because let me tell you, if I've learned anything in my time in the military, especially looking at that book, Dicks on Walls, there's a lot of great artists in the military.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

I got one over there on my shelf. I picked it up. I just got back from uh from Utah at Black Rifle um at the beginning of June. And I I I brought one back with me. So it's it's right over there on my on my bookshelf.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Yes. Great book, man. Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 3:22

T Room. Yeah, I I came home and my wife is uh she's very different than me. I mean, she's she's the she was the perfect person I could have married. She's very, you know, conserved like conservative, like, you know, kind of just like super smart. She has two degrees. She she teaches out of college, and she doesn't, she doesn't have like the I'm very different. Like my my humor and all that stuff. And I came back and I was like, hey, look, look what I got as like a parting gift.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

And she was like, what is that?

SPEAKER_04 3:50

So it's uh it it was it was pretty funny. But I'm actually building, uh just built a uh a new building behind my house. Like I'm in one of our rooms in our house, and I had to get out because you know now we have a daughter. Um so but I'm gonna move my new, I'm building a new studio like Man Cave out there. Oh yes, dude. And so uh I'm I'm excited because I'm gonna have like a big, nice space of my own to be able to, because I've collected all that. Like, I mean you can see this, I mean you can't see the whole room, but this room is like packed out. Artwork and you know, I got stuff, guns have been given to me, patches, books. Like I'm a big collector. I like collecting stuff, but I'm very sentimental, and everything that I have has a has a meaning and a story behind it. And uh I'll I can kind of go into that, but uh I got a whole I got boxes of books and stuff, and I'm ready to like, you know, that book is gonna go on my coffee table in in my new studio. So that was uh I was pretty excited about getting it.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

But fuck yeah, dude. That is awesome. Uh uh shout out to the man, the myth, the legend, Benny, doing great things out there. It it's it's it always blows my mind that the caliber of men from all the walks of life, every like throughout my journey that I've been able to meet and then engage with. And uh I freaking to most people, they hear the title of the book and they're like, what is it? But if you're you're of our culture, of our brand, they're like, fuck yes. And the stories, the stories that he's collected and put in it, that's a thing. And and to be featured as one of the authors in it, like I don't care what I do for the rest of my life, wherever I go, like to know that a little bit of my story is in that book, I'm just like done. Like, I don't I don't know what else I can achieve besides being a good husband, being a good father, that's gonna be in my shadow box.

Collecting Meaning And Building A Studio

SPEAKER_04 5:40

Yeah. Um, you know, I had, you know, as we've spoken, you know, I I I'm not a veteran, and I used to really like regret that decision in my life. My grandfather fought in Vietnam and Korea, my dad was in the army, my wife, both of her parents retired Air Force. But as I've gotten older, I've come not to regret it because, you know, I'm a believer and I believe that God sets us on certain paths. And, you know, if if if I would have gone that path, I probably would have married my never married my wife, wouldn't have kids, wouldn't be the artist that I am today. So I feel like I've I've come to the realization that my impact on the veteran community is probably greater because of where I'm at now. And, you know, that was the whole reason that I, you know, got into the space that I'm in in this community is I didn't go into the military, so I thought, well, well, how can I help support veterans, you know, getting out of military, starting businesses? And it's been exactly what I kind of aimed for. But um I forgot where I was going that, but it it's just it's so awesome to see, you know, you know, there's a lot of great artists out there and a lot of people that tell stories. And especially in this community, my favorite part about it is the rebellious nature of it. And I'm kind of a kind of a rebellious guy, like I don't really care about the government. I don't, you know, I just I just want to have a you know, and I I'll kind of keep it, you know, PG here, but I I just want a good life for my family, right? And we just talked about fatherhood, like I want a good life for my kids, and um I like the rebellious nature of it. And so seeing a book like that, it's super rebellious. Like the back of the book says it's a quote, I can't remember who it was, but it was like, do not buy this book. Yes. I'm 100% going to buy this book. So it's kind of like, you know, I and it, and I've always been like, yeah, and the name of it is uh, this dude sucks.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:41

Right. And you know, and I'm I'm the type of person when I see stuff like that, I I can relate because I'm very much like I follow what's going on. I'm into politics, but I don't I don't talk about it on public platforms. I have deep conversations with friends and family, but I will do very political drawings. I don't say any, I let people see it and interpret it themselves. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

And I know I know some of the ones that are my favorite are exactly those. And it you it's like the tip of the hat. You're like, all right.

SPEAKER_04 8:10

Well, that's so funny because I've done stuff. Uh I I've did some drawings back during the Biden administration that were very, you know, you know, anti his administration. But now that Trump has been re-elected, I have like people on the left who are associating themselves with the drawings. So it's like completely flipped. And it's like, that is super funny because it it it's amazing how it just shows you we're all the same. We just all want the same thing. Yeah. And it's not, it's it's just, I don't know. It I'm for the people, right? That's all I care about. I care about us as Americans and um, you know, whoever is in whoever's in charge. I don't care what side. I just want to do life for myself and my and my family and my friends. And but uh it's just I don't know, art's funny, man. And it's uh it's amazing how triggering it can be for people. And I don't know. It's just a lot of fun. So I can imagine that book being super triggering for people.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Yeah, it's it's one of, like I said, it's one of my proudest achievements to be part of that collaboration, have tons of people that I'm like, dude, I've admired this individual since I've read his books, and now he does uh he shares one of his stories in there. And it's like, holy shit, like people ask, like, what are you the most proud of? And I'm like, I look at all the things I've accomplished and the friends and things I've done, and it's just like being part of this GWAT history, being part of something that few people understand. The the connection, seeing your deployment photos resonate with every other deployed guy's photos. At some point, there's going to be graffiti in the background of it. And that's the beauty of this experience. Like, art and photography connect us. Whether you want to think about it or not, when you really pause and reflect on it, it really does. Because at the end of the day, we're all just gonna be old dudes sharing photos and and walking around with t-shirts that probably have your designs on it. So that's why it's important to understand the person behind it and be able to say, like, this episode of Security Health is brought to you

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Why Human Art Beats AI

SPEAKER_02 11:05

You don't have to completely make your community and your inner circle just be veterans. The one things I always fight to tell guys like, you're gonna find your greatest friends, your greatest mentors in outside areas. Be willing to bring everybody in, have that discussion of like your views and your your opinions in the world, like they need to grow. They need to shift and adapt. Like, don't don't shift your ethics and morals, but be willing to understand that, like, okay, not everybody has not everybody in your group, in your close circle, has to have the same lived experience.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

Yeah. And dude, that's the thing about art is it's one of the oldest things that's in our DNA. Yeah. Before language. Like people were trying to express themselves, you know, whether, and I'm not saying like, you know, some sort of like, you know, hopping around doing some sort of circus act. I'm talking about like they, they, you know, people didn't have a, you know, a language. And, you know, trying to share history, you know, either, you know, whether it is verbally or with art. I mean, we find stuff all over the world, paintings and drawings. And I mean, it's just, it's, it's one of the oldest things that we can do. And I think that's why it's still so loved. And and I think that's why too, like with the rise of like AI, I don't think it's it's not going to replace it because people know deep down what's real and what's not. And you you can't you can't fake art.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

You can't you can you can't create a prompt that will put out the artwork that individuals like yourself have put out there. Like, you know, another another artist out there, Invader Girl. Um you can't have AI turn out one of her pieces of art. It does you can you can have the greatest AI expert write the best prompt, and it's not gonna create your work. It's not gonna create something that looks like it.

SPEAKER_04 13:01

Well, what is it that makes it what what is it that sets us apart from every other species on the planet? Our souls. Yeah. Right? Who we are as humans. And I mean, I I view I look, don't get me wrong, I think I AI is a great tool, and it's like anything. I think it can be utilized, and I think just completely being rebellious against against it, and this is just a personal opinion, I don't think that's the correct way. I think it can be used for certain things. But if when it comes to art, it if it doesn't have soul behind it, I mean that's what makes art art. It's not always just, oh, this is like a great piece of work. It's it's it's the story behind it. It's it's kind of like I was talking to somebody the other day, I said, if you had a van if you had Van Gogh's Starry Night painting, you know, one of the most famous painting, or the Mona Lisa, one of the famous painting in the world, and you put it up at auction and you had a computer, hand paint it, a robot arm, AI hand paint it, stroke for stroke. I'm talking about a two to you know, micrometer. Which one's gonna sell? They're exactly the same. They look exactly the same. Of course the Van Gogh is gonna sell. Why? Because somebody did it. It doesn't exactly it, it's not it's not the finished product, it's it's the whole foundation of it. Like everything in the everything it took to build up to get there, the person's life, the person's mental state, where they've been, what they've done, is all inside of this thing. And that's the same way with my art, is a lot of my stuff is very personal. Like, especially my personal drawings, they come from like deep places of my mind, you know, struggles I'm going through, things I'm excited about, frustrations, whatever. That it's not just something I'm just drawing just to throw on social media. I mean, it's it's it's a very meaningful, I mean, it's it means something. And even with my stuff with Black Rifle, like, you know, some people know this, some people don't. Every, like this is a bag we just launched for $250, but every bag that I do, I hide stuff in there about myself in it. Or my kids. It's got I got Easter eggs in them. Some people never know, and like some of the stuff that I hide, it could be some sort of number that represents a date or a symbol or something. And nobody will ever know. But you know why I do it? Because one day my kids are gonna pick up this stuff and they're gonna know that their dad thought about them through his work and everything that he does. And you know, some of the stuff is funny, you know, but and it's it doesn't it's it's nothing that alters the artwork or most like I said, most people would never they're never gonna see it. It's just something that I do for you know for myself and my family or whatever. But um if there's no soul and artwork, then it's it's just like any other thing, like just keyboard or whatever. I mean, it's it's you got so true, man.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

It's so true. Like I was just in France um for the 82nd University of Normandy, got to go to Notre Notre Dame, and um like every every church, every chapel I went into, every piece of artwork in there, like it moves you. Like you you can be the the most you know non-artistic person, and you're gonna pull out your phone and you're gonna just sit there in awe of everything you see. Um but the same same can't be said for AI stuff. The stuff that's being massed, you know, you're not gonna walk in that you're you'll never walk into a museum for AI art. Like that's not gonna be a thing.

SPEAKER_04 16:42

And I think there's gonna be a big I think right now companies are exploring, like I I've seen, you know, clients that I've had before in the past start using AI, whether it's just for advertisement and I've seen some print on shirts, like I think there's a lot of people exploring it right now, but there is a lot of kickback on it. And you know, I mean I've even had people it it's there's such a rebellious movement. I've had people comment on stuff I did four years ago and it's like this is AI. I'm like, but but I think there's gonna be a big rebellion because I think what's gonna happen is I I give it about another year, people are gonna get those those revenue numbers and they're gonna realize it ain't working. Oh, it's it's already now it's already happening. It's already happening. I see like these these like uh instead of and I'm not saying that you can't use AI for some stuff, but like I see like these advertisements for you know some sort of event happening, and it's like AI with all this stuff, and it just looks so sloppy. And it I understand that's social media and you're trying to do something quick, but the whole printing AI on products, you know, you have a you have a t-shirt that's $40 and you're printing AI artwork, ain't nobody gonna buy that. No. I mean, you'll have some people, but people who like the cult following of your brand, the people who love your brand for what it is, you ain't hooking in with that crap. I mean, I can tell you that right now. So I think I think I give it about another year, and I think you're gonna see everybody kind of get back to, you know, what actually works. And and I've seen it. I mean, I've I've seen the downturn, you know, of you know, clients spending money and you know, hiring me for stuff, but you know, it could be too, I mean, economy's bad right now too, so people aren't, you know,

Pricing Art And Respecting Creators

SPEAKER_04 18:30

spending as much as they they have, but yeah, I I see it, I I see our uh I love following artists on social media.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

And one of my biggest complaints when I have when I'm talking to individuals that are complaining about how much artwork costs, it's like that guy or gal is actually drawing that logo or that mock-up that you need for that new cool t-shirt that you want to throw on your website. Like, if you had the ability to do it, you would do it, but you don't. You've tried doing it on ChatGPT, you've tried doing it on Perplexy, you've tried doing it on all these different platforms, and then you go to these artists on social media who have amazing uh like shout out to I think his name is Griffith. Um yeah, uh Garrett.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

Yeah, I think yeah, yeah, yeah. Great, great artist, great friend. I mean, amazing, amazing artwork.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Got a ton of this stuff. You you reach out and you get the price point, and if you can't afford it, if you can't afford it, you thank you, you thank them for their time, you appreciate their quality of the work, and you say, All right, now I'll budge this, I'll figure out a way to budge this for my next, you know, next quarter or however, and you move on and you you save for that price point. What you don't do is complain and bitch and moan about somebody's artwork. That's their livelihood. It and I want to dive into this, like it not every artist is out there making great deals with giant corporations, giant entities, and able to put food on the table through their artwork. A lot of times individuals are having to supplement with other side hustles and other gigs. So don't lowball people. Be willing to respectfully say, oh shit, yep, I can see why you charge those rates, and I will have to come back to you. And I appreciate you being honest with me. Because like that's the reality of it. Like somebody is out there pouring their passion out there, trying to make a living in what they love doing. And like, you have to be able to respect it. And I think the other thing is that the problem that I see is there's a lot of templates. There's a lot of template art that's out there that people who just go on Pinterest, snag it, be like, all right, this will work. And it's like, damn, do some due diligence, yeah, figure out who owns it.

SPEAKER_04 20:51

Yeah, talk about, you know, making it as an artist. I'm very fortunate.

Injury To Illustrator Career Pivot

SPEAKER_04 20:55

Um, but I'll be the first to tell you it was not an easy road. And the the road was born out of um situations that happened where I had to force myself into doing something different. Uh long story short, I worked, I was uh, I worked for the state of North Carolina. I did like construction work. I got hurt, had a bunch of surgeries, was laid up. Um this was back in like 2013 and 2015. And it it really, I mean, I was young. I mean, I'm 30, I'm I turned 39 this year, but I mean, I was in my mid-20s. Yeah, mid-20s, man. And just kind of, I mean, I was pretty athletic, pretty strong. You know, I didn't like work out and stuff, but I did construction work. I was super fit. And it it completely like derailed my life. I mean, I had two I had two hip surgeries, so at, you know, in my mid twenties. Um so for like three years I went through therapy and was on crutches and I had you know extreme muscle atrophy and all that stuff. And I was painting in a stairwell, and it was like a it was like it was like a seven-story building. It was an older building, like built built in the early 1900s. And it, you know, you had like four or five steps and a landing, four or five steps and a landing, four, you know, it, you know, kind of a not a real spiral, but it, you know, went down. And uh, I was painting and I had my back to the stairs, and I I stepped off the step and I kind of fell, and I like stuck my leg out to catch my fall, and I kind of fell up. I mean, I didn't like tumble down the stairs, but I I all my weight came down on my left leg. And I mean, it hurt, and it was like out that I mean, that hurt. And so I it hurt enough where I went to like immediate care. They told me I had like a strained muscle or whatever, fine. And I ended up working on it for like six months, and it just got worse and worse. And what had happened was I tore my labrum and I worked on it for six months, and it would get to the point where it was like blowing out, where I was like falling, where it would just like catch and I would fall down. And so I was like, I kept going back to like, you know, it was workers' comp, you know, kept going back to Media Care. I was like, look, I think I need an MRI to see what's going on. And so I went and I had torn my labrum. I had a sheared off piece of cartilage that was floating around in my hip socket, and it was, it was catching with my femur and my socket, and that's what it was like. It was catching, and I was, it was so much pain. I was like, my leg was blown out. And so they the orthopedic place they went and they were like, we, this is an orthopedic place. And they were like, we can't, it's pretty bad enough where we can't even do anything. We're gonna have to send you. So I went to Duke Hospital in North Carolina. They're at their like top athletic surgeon there. I ended up having surgery. Was in the hospital for a week. Um, they did like a microfracture where they like drill into your bone and all that stuff. I was in the hospital for a week and they messed up. They also messed up my arm. I guess somehow I was on the table and they did something to my neck, and I couldn't move my arm for like two or three days. So I had to stay in the hospital. It was like I had this like dead arm. Anyways, went through all that, went through, was on crutches, went through therapy, and my wife uh does physical therapy, so that was a big plus. Oh, no way. Yeah. But went through all this stuff. It was like a year, and I got back to work full time with no restrictions, like a year later. In the second week I was back, I was running a clean out in a in a uh like a sewer line, and I I stood up and stepped and I left my foot planted and I just twisted, hey, tore it again, went right back in, had the same surgery all over again, same thing. And so after that it was like, you know, well, you're kind of they wouldn't give me a replacement because I was so young. And um, anyway, so I kind of ended up having like this sedentary job, office job, didn't didn't really like it at all. Um, and so me and my wife had been dating like almost seven years, and I was like, I really want to marry her, but I need my salary that I'm making. I if something would have happened to her, there's no way I could afford to take care of us. I had a good job on paper. I mean, it was a state job, state pension, state healthcare. I mean, I was there for 12 years, but I didn't make anything. So uh while I was out, you know, kind of on home rest, you know, healing up, I got back into artwork. And I've I've always loved art since I was a kid. Started drawing again, started painting again, and um eventually uh I got a I started posting stuff online, like just I was doing a lot of like uh fine art, like landscapes, animals, fish. Um, I started posting and somebody had asked if they could buy one of the fish I drew. I think it was a trout. And I was like, uh, yeah, I guess I could get a print made and send it to you. So I did that. Then I started getting requests for people to do pet portraits, and so I started doing that. And um eventually people started asking about apparel designs. I didn't know anything about how to do it. And I was like, I got on YouTube and I was like, how in the world do you do apparel designs? You know, how do you set up, how do they print? And so um I I got a computer, I downloaded all the software, Photoshop, Illustrator, all that stuff, and started teaching myself. And I remember the first day I ever opened Photoshop and Illustrator, I was like, there's no way I'm gonna learn this. And I'm one of those people, like I didn't, I didn't really like school. Like I was always good, I just didn't like school. I was a hands-on learner. And so I was like, well, maybe I'll take a class, graphic design class. I was there one week. I was like, this ain't for me. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna learn anything this way. So I taught myself on YouTube, you know, as I went, things I need to learn. And uh that was about probably eight years ago. I started picking up clients, and then once I got pretty confident in my skills, I started reaching out to clients and doing stuff or reaching out to people that I like, pages, whatever, and started doing stuff for free. And like, hey, I did this for your company. I put my Instagram handle on it, like a sticker design. You can have it, you know, just kind of an advertising thing. And then I picked up some pretty good clients. Um, and I I started getting kind of burnt out. Like I wanted to start, my my whole, you know, my life was changing things in a light. I found out about Black Rifle, a friend of mine gave me some, and I started kind of getting into that veteran space. And um was like, man, I really want to do some work for like companies that I that I that I love. And so I picked about four or five companies, Black Rifle, Half Face Blades, um, fieldcraft, survival. Um, this was this was about six or five six or seven years ago. And I just did concepts and I just posted them on Instagram. And within six months, I was doing work for all of them. No shit. Yep. And contracting. Um, and then a Black Rifle picked me up and I contracted for them for a year, and I had gotten to the point in my career where by this time I had moved to a new job in the state. I was working as a surveyor with DOT. And I really loved to work. Um, I was outside, inside. Um, I I enjoyed the work, enjoyed the guys I worked with. I was kind of back out doing kind of physical work, you know, it was just a lot of fun. Um, but I was going back to what you were talking about, people trying to make a living, supplementing. I was working from like 7:30 to 4:30, getting home, and then doing graphic design and illustrating from like six o'clock to midnight every night, seven days a week. And I know the feeling. I was working, I was working a ton, and it we had we didn't have kids yet. Yeah. I mean, I was just like, I mean, you know, my my skills developed, my creativity really developed during those times. Um, and so I kind of got to a point where I was turning down so much work, I was losing more money turning down work because I just didn't have time to do stuff. And so me and my wife started talking about how I could go into it full time, like trying to figure that out. Like, look, I had a state pension, I had 13, 14 years with a state. Like I could have retired with 30 years at like 48 years old. Like it was a big decision. Like we were trying to figure out how we were gonna make that work. And I did this drawing. Um, it was a personal drawing. This was like kind of at the height of COVID. It was the it was uh, it was titled Trust Us. It was a like a news reporter, and he had like a robot face. And I just posted it, and Evan Hafer messaged me. He was like, hey, call me. And I was like, okay. So I called him and he was like, uh, are you ready to join us full time at Black Rifle? And I was like, What? And by this time we had just had our kid. My wife was home on maternity leave and uh talked to him and I was like, Yeah, man, I think so. And so I went home and I told my wife, I was like, You ain't gonna believe this. You know, we had been praying about it, like trying to figure it out. I was like, Black Rifle just offered me a job full-time. And that was like in beginning of December and like January 1st, I started at Black Rifle full-time. So, and now that was uh that was four years ago. So I contracted for a year, been there four years full time, and now I'm senior illustrator there, basically, dude. Um I I tell that story

Going Full Time At Black Rifle

SPEAKER_04 31:00

not to you know talk about myself, but for anybody listening that there's two things about that you can do whatever you want if you put your nose to the grindstone.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

And two, we live in the only country that you can do that.

SPEAKER_04 31:23

Where you have the ability to put yourself in a situation where you can be doing exactly what you want and make a good living for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

That's the two things that's great about America is the opportunity and you have the ability and the freedom to work hard and uh be able to just do exactly what you want to do.

SPEAKER_04 31:52

I I'm doing you know how people say, man, th those guys get to hit a baseball for a living, they get to have fun. That's what I'm doing. I draw all day. I got a coloring book. Like I'm I I have a make a good living for my family and support my family, I get to draw all day. Yeah. But it it's it's a hard road to get to that situation. And I'm thankful that it was a hard road because it makes me appreciate where I'm at versus just being, and I think that's a problem with don't get me wrong, there's some parts of college that I think is an absolute scam. I think some people you need college, but I think that's the problem with college is these people expect that they should have all of this when they get out with no real world experience, no, no, no, no hard times, no agony, no tears, no, you know, good, massive, you know, a win is like a big thing. You know, everything is like, you know, super high, super low. And um I I come from pretty humble beginnings. You know, my parents worked hard. We we didn't have a lot of money. And so I I've I've kind of kept that like attitude and I'm like super thankful for it. Um, you know, I I never really know how to act when you know I come on here and like people want to talk to me or, you know, have me on a podcast. It's like I I still see myself as just like this southern country guy. I got chickens and you know, I do gardening, and I'm still living in the same place I grew up, not the same house, but the same area I grew up in. And it's like I it's almost like I have these like two different lives. And I think sometimes I don't really realize like, you know, hearing you say about guys being deployed, where my stuff, like I just it it's it's like hard for me to comprehend because I just feel like I'm kind of the same guy I was, you know, 20 years ago. But um, dude, the opportunities are out there and if people put in the work, you can do it. Um I've I've followed several artists over the years who you know they've reached out, you know, just starting off and now they're like pretty successful and um it's great. Um but that's one that's one cool thing about social media. You can really bloom your business social media. I mean, I hate it to a degree. I can't hate it but so much because it's kind of helped me get to where I am.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

Uh it is good for business, so it it's um uh the thing that I figured out, man, it's um it costs money to be fake.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

It's a lot easier and a lot sustainable, a lot more sustainable um if you're just the honest version of who you are.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

And that that's like the reality of it. There's a lot of people that are good at grifting, but at some point when you've got to try to dial up more more ideas of how you can fake who you are, it's gonna get exhausting. Or you can just be who you are. You can just be the best version of yourself. And guess what? Um, there's a market for it. There's a huge market for positivity. I I kept telling myself for the longest time that, oh, it's impossible. It's hard, it's it's it's it's the hardest thing on earth to be positive this day. And I made that conscious decision to stay that path and just be a positive force. Yes, my memes may hurt some feelings, but it's all in good fun, I promise. I don't hate you, S1 kids. I think you're great. I think everybody's it we all need a little bit of ribbing every once in a while, but positivity is making a huge comeback. And I I've seen it lately where everybody that was quick to grow and blow up because they built something that wasn't sustainable, that was just built on anger and hate and negativity, like eventually it just eats itself. Like all we all you really have to do is be a good, the best version of yourself. Be the best version of yourself. And if you want to create something and put it online, just get out there and do it. And and and yes, you have to be willing to make the reels and post. It does take work.

SPEAKER_04 36:01

It's exhausting. Like, and that's one thing that I that like, you know, artwork is meant to be viewed how it is, and I hate

Authenticity Positivity And The Algorithm

SPEAKER_04 36:10

feeling like sometimes I have to make it more than what it is. Yeah. And I kind of got in, I kind of went through this stage a a year or two ago where I was trying to make my make creative reels and stuff. And don't get me wrong, it was fun, but it was super exhausting. And I was like, you know what? I don't have to do this. I don't like I'll do it when I when I'm in the mood, but like I got to the point where I was like, oh, I gotta, I gotta make some, you know, cool video or you know, something with my artwork. And I was like, this is not the way it's supposed to be. And you know, you know how the algorithm is. It was pushing heavy on reels and all this stuff, and you know, I I never understood. It's like, well, man, I have a lot of people tell me they like this work, but then you post it online and it it might get 30 likes. I'm like, what? And that was like the that's a whole nother conversation about you know, giving the approval of the public people you don't even know. But I mean it it's it's frustrating, you know. I mean, I I don't have a ton of followers, but you know, 20,000 followers, I'll post a story and I don't even get 90 views on it. And it's like, what is this? And I'm probably half of them are fake anyways, but I I'm sure it's probably being suppressed, some or whatever, but it's really, dude, artwork is so weird. I'll post up, post stuff sometimes that I was like, this is probably not very interesting to anybody, but I'm just gonna post it because I hadn't posted in a while. Dude, it'll get 5,000 likes. And I'll post I'll post something like this bag that I spent a month on and nobody cares. I'm gonna I don't understand. Like and it, you know, what do you people want? What do you want? It makes it makes no sense. I look, I did this um, I did this design for uh origin. It was a it was a illustration on how to fold the American flag. They did a like a flag uh collab with the Legions, I think. Or no, Folds of Honor. Folds of Honor, yeah. Last year. And the packaging, I did this little like, you know, steps one through six or whatever, how to fold American flag. Something that I mean it's an instructional, it's something that goes on packaging. Something I would typically never post, but it was like, I think it was July 4th. And I was like, uh, I'll uh I'll I'll just post it. Dude, it's the most liked piece of artwork outside of when Maduro got it got rolled up on. I did a dumb, like Vogue magazine cover. Yeah. It got like a it's it's the most liked thing I've ever done. And I was so furious because I did it in like 15 minutes. Like I just took his picture, like photoshopped a bunch of stuff, like did something funny. I was like trying to cat, you know, trying to ride the like viral moment train. It was the most liked thing like I had ever done. And I was so mad. I was like, I I have poured my heart and soul into all this work, and this is the crap that everybody wants to see. I was like, I I'm I'm never posting, I'm not, I'm just not gonna do anything else again.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

I I'll give this out to the audience. I I want um, you know, my business, I do podcast production and you know, content creation, social media marketing is the other side of the business. And one of the things I because I had just like you, I had to learn it for myself. I had to get really good in this space. And uh not that I'm some savant or or selling any courses yet, but I do have some reputable brands that I and and organizations that I've been able to work with and elevate their status through social media. One of the things, one of the key things I realized was you need to be on the news. And if you see and capture a moment that is going on the websites, on on the on Reddit like wildfire, create something that speaks to that. Capture the the iconic moment that is going on, like it, that moment, that Maduro moment, that was, dude, if you were a creator in that time period, like in that that moment that that shit was going down, I guarantee you weren't sleeping. Because you were you were either at a whiteboard or on your desk trying to come up with a way you could tie it to your content for your customer or for your own uh marketing.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

It's like that was a huge one.

SPEAKER_04 40:26

That uh couple that just scaled the Empire State building, they hung up dude. Everybody has a flag version of it. Everybody. I think it's like it's kind of cool, but I think uh the other downfall of that it kills something so quick. Like it's like a roller coaster. You get to the peak, and then it when it's done with it drops off. Because I had reached out to uh I had reached out to somebody about doing some sort of like print, like limited prints of that Maduro thing I did. Like, hey, y'all want to collab on this and just do some fun prints? Because a lot of people were asking, like, can I get a print of this? And by the time we like figured it out, it was that just already over. Yeah, it was like too late.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Yeah. A couple weeks after that, one of the the clients uh uh that I work with was like, we want to do a video, we want to do this. And I'm like, it's already done. It's already over. It's already like it's we're at day 40 of this. You missed the ability to capture an audience with it. I'm like, what do you mean? I'm like, let me tell you, you're yeah, I know the last time you were on a social media platform was MySpace. Like, you don't trust me. This doesn't work like that. Yeah. Within our money society, that's for sure. Yeah, it's crazy. It's a short attention span. That's what it is.

Tacticock Origin And Tactical Animals

SPEAKER_02 41:40

But to to speak to your artwork, it breaks through that. I mean, you know, when we first started talking, I started talking about my my favorite uh thing you created for for Black Rifle Coffee, the the Tacticock. Like that that rooster with MVGs and a rifle, it's still going around social media.

SPEAKER_04 42:02

The first design I ever did. And it's dude, it like year over year. It's been it's been in a top three best-in designs since since we've done it.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Yeah, I bought that shirt not once, not twice, three times, because I used to live right down the road from the Niceville uh Black Raffle Coffee store.

SPEAKER_04 42:20

Oh yeah. Well, it's funny, like I um I'm kind of I'm like super funny about what I wear. Like I I'm not I and I don't know if it's just because I work around it all the time. Like I don't like any like graphic heavy like front t-shirt. I like everything on the back. That's just a personal preference. So I actually never really wore that shirt because when it first came out, it was on the front. And I was just like, and I don't have, look, I gun train a lot. I have a ton of guns and that, you know, I shoot behind my house all the time. But I'm not one of those like Lau, I don't have any shirts with guns on it. Like I don't, I don't like people knowing. Like I carry, you know, carry every day. I mean, even if I bebop down to the gas station, you know, down here, I I carry, but I don't like drawing attention to myself. And um, even though I love the design, but uh we we just uh a couple and it's probably been a month or two now, but we we launched a murdered out version of that where it's a black t-shirt and it's like a dark gray single color print of the Tacticock on the back and it has red in the MVG. Get the fuck out of here. How did I miss this? I pull it up. Yeah, you it now that one has been one of my favorite shirts because it's like super subtle and it's got like the the BRCC lightning bolt logo on the front. Like, love it. Um not me. But I never really wore the original talking. I never really wore the original that much, but it was it's dipping. I loved it. I love the blue.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

Yeah, I love the the the blue popped with the red and green from the the rooster. And like I I I know I had it on deployment, wore it to the gym all the freaking time. Um then my wife stole and it became my wife's shirt, and it was one of her favorites, so it's uh It's on heavy rotation. Um very brand loyal.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

There's a funny history behind that design. So I have chickens and I had a rooster. That the rooster is is uh is it's a ban, it's a it's like an old English Banham rooster. Yeah. Um I and I had one. And uh his name was Muadi off from the from the Dune books because I love the Doom book. Like this was probably uh six years. So, anyways, one morning uh my wife, the rooster's dead. I'm like, what? And I love that little guy. He was awesome. He you know, he was super friendly. And a a hawk hawk had killed him in the backyard. And so I drew like this memorial piece. It was it was only like from the chest up, and I put MVGs on him. I actually I still have like a stickers I made. These were like some of the first stickers I made, and it said top of the pecking order. And it was just sort of like this one little, you know, like bust, you know. What he was doing, he was he was protecting his flock, and he got singled out. And uh, but I had I had drawn that and then Evan had reached out about the first design he wanted me to do, and he's like, hey, I have this, I had this design idea where I want this like rooster with like this AR and like MBG. I'll be like, You're not gonna believe this. I was like, I just drew this. He was like, What? I was like, Yeah, I just had a rooster dial, blah, blah, blah. So it was like one of those things that was like meant to be. You're meant to be, man. And so the the head that I did, I just expanded the body and added, so you know, it's kind of a funny, unique story behind it. But um, yeah, that's that's been a that's been a super popular design. And I've seen a lot of companies like I don't I can't really recall any brand doing any type of tactical animals like back then, and now it's everywhere. So it's frustrating, but it's also kind of oh, must have done something right, you know. Um, but we still, you know, create characters and um I just finished up a bag that I'm super proud of. It'd be coming out in a couple months. It's probably one of my favorite bags I've done, and it's a character, and um it's it's gonna be a one-of-a-kind bag. Um so I'm I'm super excited about that one. But the character thing, you know, our characters that we've done at Black Rifle, you know, I've done, you know, raccoon with, you know, you know, mortars and um we did espresso mule. It's like this like um like drug mule jungle guy. And he's you know, he's like a he's like a donkey. And you know, we've we've all you know, I didn't do tacticsquatch, that was an OG design that was done right at the beginning of the company, but um spy pigeon, we've done um waterproof kazoo chicken, like duck with a kazoo, and he's got nods on, like we just it's crazy stuff. And people love the animal stuff, man. It's uh yeah, it's always been super popular.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

Yeah, it it's a great brand.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

I think that um you're you're perfect for the voice, the vision. Like that's it, it it draws you in immediately.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Nobody else does the marketing like like you guys do at Black Raple Coffee. Um, and it's awesome to have you on the show to understand the person behind it. Like that's that's a great thing. Now, like for anybody listening, like especially for me, once you know the person, you have the story, and understand that like, all right, now I know it. Now I know that when I get a new show from Black Raple Coffee, um, it has a little bit more of that understanding. I have the better understanding of like, hell yeah, I know why this individual is so passionate about this. I know why it speaks to me. There's somebody that, you know, like I said earlier, you don't have to be from the same platoon or company or or branch or the military. You just have to have the vision and be able to speak to like the audience, man. You do such a great job with it, brother. It's it's remarkable to see what you guys have been able to do with it. And um, before I let you go, like what's what's coming down the line for you? Who you can you share with some more some up and coming projects you got going on?

SPEAKER_04 48:16

Um, Black Rifle, I mean, obviously can't I can't say too much. That's something that I'm trying to, you know, that I've had conversations with is, you know, I've there used to be this big push on like being super secretive about what's coming out because you don't want somebody to steal your idea, but um Origin has really broken that mold. They they do a lot of behind the scenes stuff, like there's no secret about what they're trying to produce. And they can kind of do that, right? Because everything they make is in-house in America. Like, dude, they're wearing their jeans right now. Dude, they're on their manufacturing's like right here in North Carolina. But um, but like we we had some conversations about doing some more behind the scenes stuff, especially with the artwork, because dude, it would dude. Let me tell you something. Let me let me tell you something. The conversations that are had, and you know, I mean, look, I work around a bunch of veterans. I'm sure I was never in that space with them when they were deployed, but I'm sure the space that I'm in now is exactly the same. The conversations of how this stuff happens, it's the it's the funniest. It it's like everybody's on drugs. It doesn't, it makes absolutely no sense. Like that the how how something is created, like how some of these bags and these designs have come up, it's the most ludicrous thing you've ever heard. It's just a bunch of people standing around talking, and somebody will say something, and then somebody will add on to it, and next thing you know, you have a coffee bag that sells a million dollars worth of. You know what I'm saying? Like it's it's so it's we're not a we're not a brand that just tries to come up with or capture a viral idea to make money. Like this stuff is like, there has been a lot of conversation and a lot of love and passion that has been put into these designs. But as far as stuff coming down the pipe, can't really say too much. There is some really great stuff coming down the pipe with Black Rifle. Um I've had some stuff come out this week, uh, First Spear.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

You know, they are big fan. They they fielded a lot of the equipment on uh on the teams. Yeah, man, they're great.

SPEAKER_04 50:27

Um I got they they sent me uh plate carrier and kit and stuff. Um yeah, they've been a they've been a great I actually got in some some of the shirts I did. They just launched some stuff this week. Um working on some stuff for Chad Wright and 307 Project, um some other doing some stuff for some local people. Um nothing big. I always try to, I never know how my clients uh some people are like they don't really care. Like, yeah, go ahead and post it. And some people are super funny about, you know, they want to, they wanna. I usually try to wait until they they put out stuff. So I can't really speak too much on what's coming down the pipe, other than there's some cool stuff and some good opportunities. Um but hell yeah, dude. Um, yeah, I'm stoked. Nothing in, you know, every once in a while I get get a chance to uh do some personal stuff just for fun. But there's some cool stuff coming.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

So hell yeah, dude. Well, Jonathan, uh, before I let you go, man, where can people find your stuff and uh how can it connect with

Projects Ahead And How To Connect

SPEAKER_02 51:32

you?

SPEAKER_04 51:32

Um I don't use much social media other than Instagram. I'm I'm pretty anti-social media outside of that. But my handle is uh Grizzly River Art, or you can search my name, Jonathan Griswold. Um and I just want to say anybody who's listening that's followed me or reached out, um, I appreciate all the support. And um I'm just you know super thankful for the opportunity to work, you know, and meet the people that I've met over the years. And uh it means a ton. You know, you having me on means a ton. I told you when you had reached out, I was like, oh wow, like, you know, it you know, it it means a lot. Like it's it's it's not something that I expect or I feel like I deserve, but I I I really appreciate the opportunity just you know to share a little bit about myself and um it's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

So dude, I'm thrilled to have you, man. I I'm completely blown away that you responded back. I'm like, hell yes. I'm probably more excited than you are, but I doubt it, my friend, because I went to my wife, I was like, you're not gonna believe who I have. Oh man. Clear the schedule. You're manning the house, George. I gotta get it I appreciate it. I'm just I'm just a normal guy, and you know, uh, and that's what makes you great, Jonathan. That's uh that's the that's the reality of situation, man. Like, um yeah, I I could keep you on for another four hours because there's so much more I want to dive into. Um uh because one of the biggest things that I realized, a lot of guys getting in gals, getting out of the military, is they need to hear stories like yours. Um, people that were willing to bet on themselves and build something. Yep. Like it's you spent 20, 15, 20, even 10 years in the military when you get out. You deserve to be willing to bet on yourself. And these stories give people courage. It gives people the idea to like, hey, I can pick up the pencil again. I can do Adobe on my own. I can build out something for me that's gonna fuel me and put food on the table. I just gotta be willing to do the work.

SPEAKER_04 53:29

That, and like I had mentioned, that's why I got into the veteran space is to work with people like that to help them get their feet on the ground, you know, whether it's a simple sticker design or a patch or whatever, like that that's why I'm I'm in this community because I I I I want those those guys and girls deserve everything, right? Like they need all the support they can get. And, you know, there's a ton of people just like me who do the stuff that they do, not not even just artists, just people in general. You know, there's a lot of people out there willing to, you know, stand side by side with you and help you, you know, any way you can, any way they can. So um, yeah, it's the opportunity's there and there's people there to support you.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

So absolutely, man. Well, Jonathan, thank you so much for being here, brother. Guys, you know the spiel. The episode's over. Head on over to the episode description, click those links, connect with Jonathan, head on over to Black Raffle Coffee and grab yourself a new t-shirt. You already know my favorite design. And now that I know there's a new version, I'm probably gonna snag two more and uh reach out to Dean, see if I can get some free product, dog. Come on. You missed the days of getting free coffee, some black rifle coffee. And the emails the moment you hit the ground, I always send the email, dear black rifle coffee. This I am part of ODA7135. Can you please send us some free coffee? And then no shit. I'll jump, I'll jump down. Uh I'll jump down on Dean just kind of weakness. Oh man, dude. Thank you so much for being here, brother. And everybody listening, thank you guys for tuning in. Thank you for supporting the show. But most importantly, take care of yourselves, and we'll see you all next time.