Kristen Vescera on Veteran Suicide Prevention, Crisis Support, and Saving Lives Through Connection | Security Halt! Podcast Ep. 441

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How do you help a veteran who may be struggling before a crisis becomes a tragedy?

In Episode 441 of the Security Halt! Podcast, Deny Caballero sits down with Kristen Vescera to discuss veteran mental health, suicide prevention, crisis intervention, and the critical role friends, family members, and communities play in supporting those who may be struggling.

Drawing from personal experience and her work with Worry About a Veteran, Kristen shares practical tools for recognizing warning signs, starting difficult conversations, creating safety plans, and connecting veterans with life-saving resources. This conversation offers actionable guidance for anyone who wants to better support veterans, first responders, and loved ones facing mental health challenges.

If this episode resonates with you, please share it with a veteran, first responder, family member, or friend. One conversation could save a life.

Subscribe to the Security Halt! Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts for more conversations focused on service, resilience, leadership, and veteran well-being.

Chapters:
00:00 Project Reach and the Mission to Prevent Veteran Suicide
03:03 Kristen Vescera's Journey Into Mental Health Advocacy
05:55 Understanding Veteran Suicide Prevention Resources
08:56 Recognizing the Warning Signs of a Crisis
11:51 Why Connection Saves Lives
15:06 Empathy vs. Sympathy in Peer Support
18:02 What to Do When Someone Is in Crisis
20:56 Setting Healthy Boundaries While Helping Others
24:01 Community Resources Every Veteran Should Know
29:20 Preventing Burnout in Mental Health Advocacy
30:18 Firearm Safety and Temporary Transfer Options
31:10 Understanding Safe Storage Laws and Best Practices
32:26 Creating Time and Distance During a Crisis
33:14 Why Emotions Are Temporary but Actions Can Be Permanent
36:01 The Critical Role Friends Play in Suicide Prevention
39:32 Using Military Skills to Build Resilience
43:46 Breaking the Cycle of Negative Thinking
45:58 Effective Communication During Difficult Conversations
50:53 Veteran Mental Health Resources and Final Takeaways

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Transcript

Check On The Strong Ones

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It doesn't just affect people that are depressed and people that are visually sad and visually struggling. Some of your strongest friends are dealing with things too. It's part of the human condition. It means you have to be plugged into everybody. Understand everybody and it and they're every human being has a limit of what they're dealing with. So check on your friends. I often say like the guy that's smiling and laughing and constantly keeping everybody in high spirits in the text thread, reach out to those guys too. Reach out to everybody.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

There are days that I feel good and days that I don't. And so that's another thing too. So it's not just that suicidal or that down or that person that we should be looking out for. It's all of us. We all have those bad days where we might have scary thoughts in our heads or just need somebody to talk to. So it's not just, you know, a person-to-person thing. It's within the person, um, depending on the day.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

I think that for a long time I was just so focused on texting and messages and emails. And then somebody called me when I wasn't doing so good. And that was such a big relief to have an actual human being. You're still disconnected by time and space, but you're holding space for each other. Today,

Meeting Kristen And The Mission

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Kristen, uh we have the uh the pleasure of having you on to talk about this because you work for an amazing organization that uh is leaning forward into this fight. So today, I want to dive into your story, but also dive into this not this uh incredible organization.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yeah, absolutely. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

So where do we start, Denny?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Well,

Her Path Into Military Mental Health

SPEAKER_00 1:31

let's start with the journey that got you in the military because I had a sneak preview into it, and it's not what I thought it was gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yeah, it's a little different. Um so I uh it's the kind of journey started in my undergrad. Um, and I was really a big dork and was into volunteering and got involved in international travel and volunteering. Um, and I worked with a lot of middle school and high school kids um going to Latin America and traveling and learning and volunteering. Um, and I really loved working with the kids and I was like, okay, I want to, I don't want to teach. I want to maybe do the school counseling route. So I was in Denver at the time and uh went to school there and got my master's in um counseling and in school counseling. And um I had my plan all set. I graduated and I was like, okay, this is a good time for me to join the reserves. I've always wanted to. So uh I enlisted um in the reserves as a PSYOP specialist, um, psychological operations. And um, as soon as I got back from basic training in AIT, I accidentally volunteered for a deployment, which was ended up being fantastic and changing the course of my life.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

How do you accidentally volunteer?

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Well, so they were looking for um they were looking for males uh uh to supplement a unit going over to Afghanistan. And so my job coming right back and doing my little, you know, making up my time. I was calling everybody in the unit, and all the guys were like, oh, my pinky's broken. Oh, I have something to do that day. And so me in my big mouth, I was just like, uh, well, if they took females, I'd go. And they're like, I want to make a call.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

They psyoped you.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

They did. So that's the accidental part, but it ended up being a blessing in disguise. Um, and then upon returning back, I was able to get a job at seventh group over in California in the reserve um lane, and was going through a bunch of reintegration challenges and going to therapy. And the therapist was like, Well, why don't you just get your PhD in mental health and work with veterans? I'm like, Yes, I'm gonna do that. Um, and so I did that, and I wasn't really feeling fulfilled. It was kind of a little alienating over the Bay Area being a veteran and uh wasn't great. Um, so I was having a hard time until a mentor of mine was like, Well, have you thought about public health and really like reaching a whole range of veterans? And I was instead of just working one-on-one. And I was like, Yes, let's do that. So um ended up getting a public health degree as well, added onto the list of things and uh was able to get a job doing everything I want to do in the suicide prevention field for veterans in public health. So that's where we are.

unknown 4:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, that's a that's a wonderful journey. And that's um to you guys out, guys and gals out there wondering how to get in the fight, there's a timeline right there. There's an outline. Um, it takes a while, um, but you can do it. Um, we need more people in the fight. So go to the episode description, look at the timestamp, burn that into your brain, and follow that if you want to pursue it, or follow a branch of it, because we need more of you in the fight. Uh, I've I've been very comfortable talking to civilian providers my entire journey. When I was at my worst, those gals were the ones that saved me, literally. But there's a lot of veterans out there that have a hesitation that they want to talk to somebody that has some sort of connective tissue to their service branch, their organization. It means a lot. So kudos to you for going out there and getting that education because it's a lot of time and a lot of effort. And uh, I want to dive right into this discussion because I don't think we're gonna be able to get everything out within an hour, and I want to get into it.

How Worried About A Veteran Began

SPEAKER_00 5:24

When we talk about suicide, it's often whispered, it's often on sadly on the backside of it. So when we are leaning forward and thinking of preventive maintenance and solutions and information that we can bring out to the masses, how did you guys get involved? How did this in this organization come to be?

SPEAKER_01 5:46

So this organization started as a governor's challenge project out of New York State. Um and the governor's challenges, um, every state has one now. They didn't at first, um, but they are dedicated to the state on suicide prevention efforts and for for veterans. Um, and so this, the team, I wasn't on at this time, but the team was like, well, where are the gaps? Lethal means safety conversations, and especially with veteran loved ones, whether they're spouses, battle buddies, um, caregivers. Uh, so how do we reach them in a way that's not like, okay, another PowerPoint, another, you know, um class that they have to take? So this resource is really it's worried about a veteran.org. And you can go and every step of the loved one's journey, you can kind of um get help and resources. So from starting recognizing warning signs of suicide to having the tough conversations with somebody and how to do that, because that's really challenging. And how do you bring it up in a really natural way? Um, to you know, finding in your state what resources there are for storing your guns outside of the home to other resources too. So uh has a lot of stuff on

New Warning Signs In Group Chats

SPEAKER_01 7:01

there.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

You know, it's important to talk about the signs. We've we've adapted and we've grown as a society, especially in the United States. When we talk about things like withdrawing, it's very different now. It's the the the climate, the the way we communicate, it's all shifted. The typical briefs that we get while we're in service hey, if your friend sends you a letter in the mail saying that they want to give you your things, like first of all, they're not gonna send me a letter in the mail. And they're probably not gonna call me either. But what they will do is they'll start leaving chats. They'll start removing themselves from the game lobby. And nobody's picked up on these new signs, these new things that are occurring in our new current state of how we communicate and connect with our friends. Is this something you guys have been able to find and understand as well?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Oh, yes. And I I actually have a story to back one of this that's great segue into something I wanted to talk about today. Um, I actually unfortunately had a buddy that did uh die by suicide. Uh and I deployed with him. We were close then, and then we kind of lost track over the years. But we always kept tabs, you know, through our networks. You always, you know, no. And we would joke around a lot during um our time deployed because he's he was with his girlfriend for 10 years, and we're like, how is how are you still together without you proposing to her, man? You know, like what is it, you know, just you know, like, what are you doing? And we knew that she wanted him to propose. He just, I'm like, I don't know why she's with you, you know, we kind of, you know, um rag on him a little bit. Um, so over the years, um uh like just keeping tabs on him, um, and uh got a call one day that he shot himself. Um, and everybody was like, I didn't recognize the signs. But what happened about two weeks before was that he got married um to this woman and it was really quick. So he proposed, got married to her. Um, and then that happened. And so I did know that he got married um the couple weeks before, and I kind of and I'm sick to my stomach about it, but I was like, oh, you know, that's a cry for help, you know, in jest I said that. Um, and it ended up being it could have been a sign that people weren't expecting. And so those are the kind of signs that I like to say any sort of change in behavior, it doesn't have to be a note or anything, but just something that's kind of off, or you know, like, why did you get married right, you know, right then.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Tie it up, tie it up those loose ends, tie it up those things that he thought that and it we'll never know for sure. Yeah. But when you're looking and studying this, it does say, like, hey, this is something that I don't want to leave undone. I'm gonna check the box. And there's so many different ways. The the gift that arrives, like, hey man, like, here's here's the money I owed you. I paid you back. And it's like, wait a second, you never pay anybody back. All these little things are they were left absent of previous models and previous briefs and these, you know, the cookie-cutter powerpoints, and we're learning so much more now. Um, it and it's it's important to understand that we adapt, we overcome, we evolve as as as a society. So we have to continue learning, and and but most importantly, you have to continue reaching out and staying engaged with your friends, understanding what's going on in their lives. That's one thing that we're all guilty of. Life moves on. We move forward, new things occur, you're juggling multiple things, you're trying to launch that business. I don't want to make it seem like a chore or a task, but if you don't want to go to another funeral, if you don't want another late-night text from another friend, it's up to us to stay informed. You know, in the military, especially in infantry and special forces, you know, don't expect what you don't inspect. You know, you're about to go on that mission, you're gonna make sure you check every item, double check every tie-down, make sure all your stuff's there. The same thing can be said about our friends. Check on them, be informed. It's so important. This episode is brought to you by Pure Liberty Labs. Quality supplements designed to elevate your health and performance. Check out their full line of quality supplements, whether you're looking for whey protein, pre-workout, creatine, or super greens drink, Pure Liberty Labs has you covered. Use my code security hall10 at checkout today.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

It is. And that whole um, you know, when when another narrative I try to steer away from is, you know, like, oh, just it reach out if you need something. It's like, well, we need to be the ones that reach out to our buddies. We can't depend, you know, if somebody's in that low of a state, they're not gonna some of them will, but some of them won't. And those are the people that that we really should be taking care of.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Yeah. And there's a lot to be said too about another, it doesn't just affect people that are depressed and people that are visually sad and visually struggling. Some of your strongest friends are dealing with things too. It's it's a it's part of the human condition. It means you have to be plugged into everybody and understand everybody and and they're every human being has a limit of what they're dealing with. So check on your friends. I often say like the guy that's smiling and laughing and constantly keeping everybody, you know, in high spirits in the text thread, reach out to those guys too. Reach out to everybody.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

And it's not static, right? So, like, even you, and I'll I'll speak for you too, but for me, um, you know, there are days that I feel good and days that I don't. Um, and so that's another thing too. So it's not just that suicidal or that down or that person that we should be looking out for. It's all of us. We all have those bad days where we might have scary thoughts in our heads or just need somebody to talk to. So it's not just, you know, a person-to-person thing. It's within the person, um, depending on the day.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

It's

Why Calling Beats Texting

SPEAKER_00 13:04

so true. Uh, I think one of the other things that we started highlighting and talking a lot more about is reaching out and calling versus just texting or sending the Discord thread, giving somebody the time and space to vocally, if they're ready to, express something, be willing to talk. I I think that for a long time I was just so focused on texting and messages and emails. And then somebody called me when I wasn't doing so good, and that was such a big relief to have an actual human being. You're still disconnected by time and space, but you're holding space for each other. Is that something you guys have also tapped into and understand that, like, hey, the power of the human voice to be able to hold space and sit, you know, that that can actually be there for somebody to respond back in real time rather than the emoji or the or the or the the meme that gets sent to the friend text?

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yeah, I think also it depends on, I think it depends really on the era, the service era. Um so this new, you know, generation of people, like that that's how they communicate and that's what they know. Um, yours and my generation and era, like the phone call is really, really important. But we're finding more and more the younger folks are really connecting through gaming and all of that, all of that stuff. Um, but I do agree with you that I mean, that's how my generation and my my circle, that's how we communicate is through the phone, and that's hugely impactful.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Yeah. It it to me, it seems like the you are uh you're willing to be a little bit vulnerable through a text after a string of like check-in messages, and then maybe you let a little bit of truth out. And then that friend who's receptive, who's holding space for you, sees that and it's like, let me go ahead and call. Um, because I've experienced it on my side too. And it's like it's letting your guard now and learning how to be vulnerable, but man, is that tough? Especially for our warrior tribe, law enforcement and veterans, LEOs, everybody within this warrior circle still has a really hard time with vulnerability and letting that be something where it can be viewed as a strength.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

And I think, um, and I'll take some psy-op like hints from it too, and communicating with people is that we kind of put, like you said earlier, like we put such a like we're so scared about that topic of suicide. But a reach out to somebody doesn't have to be like, hey, how are you feeling? How are you doing? It could be just like a normal conversation. And the more the longer you're on the call, you can kind of sense if things are, you know, going on. And if they are, then you can ask more about it. But it doesn't have to be like a stuffy, like, hey, you know, I wanted to call a check-in with you, man. It could be just, you know, how's it going? How are the kids? Um, and go from there. So I think that's another thing that we get kind of like, you know, scared about in asking those questions. It could just be a normal conversation.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Absolutely. It doesn't have to be super heavy at the very front. You don't have to preload it with the uh, I'm worried about you killing yourself. Like, dude, no one's gonna it's gonna be eight, the person might be really embarrassed. They might go inward. You have to go through it and just be there for them. Just keep them on the phone long enough to talk and engage, and then be willing to maybe be vulnerable in that moment and and ask for help. And I know it intimately. I've been there. I've been that friend that needed help. And let me tell you, the last thing I wanted to do was divulge it. And I didn't because it's so hard to breach that topic. But what we can do is build enough support to keep the person around long enough that hopefully you can engage with them and continue while they're still going through their process and find help.

Empathy And Letting People Vent

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Yeah, and I I love how you said that too, going through their process. Because another thing we like to do as vets is problem solve. Yes. Um we want to solve it for them because we want to make our buddies feel better. And um, sometimes that's not what we need. We don't need problem solvers. Sometimes we just need to vent and just to get things off our chests. So that's another thing that I think we like when we hear this stuff, it's kind of scary because you're like, oh shit, now what do I do? But it's more like you can just listen and be there, like you said. Yeah. Um, and you don't have to problem solve. Take that off your plate.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Yes, absolutely. I'm I'm glad you you went in on that because we also have to talk about sympathy versus empathy. I think Brene Brown said it best in one of her books where you know, you somebody is suffering greatly. Sympathy is like, oh man, sucks for you, dude. Like, dude, nobody wants to hear that. Like, yeah, dude, I'm depressed. I'm going through it. Yeah, man, that that sucks. Thanks, dude. Crawl down that hole, sit there. Like, I know it's hard to be there for somebody that's like you maybe you don't have a frame of reference for what they're going through. But rather than saying, oh man, dude, that sucks for you. Um that sucks. Hey man, like, dude, I I can tell this is really rough right now for you. I can understand completely. I'm just gonna be here with you, man. Like, what what do you want to talk about? How can how can I support you? Let me know. Let me in on the conversation. Like, that's what we're missing too, because we we we think that masculinity and strength means suck it up, buttercup, let's go. No, man. That's not gonna keep somebody around. You're not gonna get somebody to say, you know what, you're right. I'm not gonna kill myself. Let me ruck up, let's go run 20 miles. No. Wrong approach. You don't have to be the tough dude every time. You can take an E with your friend. How dare I say, hold space for them while they're being emotional. It's okay. You're gonna find somebody at their breaking point, and the worst thing you can do is if they're choosing to trust you with being vulnerable, and they they show their emotions or they cry, the worst thing you can do is be like, ah man, suck it up, dude. Get over it. Like, that's the worst thing you can do. And I know it's coming from, you know, well-meaning friends that think that's the right approach, but we have to understand that's not the right approach. You gotta feel your emotions. You gotta be in tune where you're going with. And if you're not there yet, at least be willing to hold space for that person and don't say something negative that will make them feel self-conscious about what they're going through. That's a big problem these days. People aren't willing to just say, you know what, it's not about me. It's about my friend right now.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Yeah. And you know, it actually reminds me of I do a lot of like military and veteran culture talks, especially with um civilian therapists and clinicians. And once like they always ask me, like, how do I connect? I haven't served, you know. How are they gonna, you know, kind of back to the original statement that you were talking about? And that's exactly my response is like, you don't have to connect the experience because Denny, I don't have the same experience as you. You don't have my experience, but we can connect through the emotions. I know what it feels like to feel anxious. I know what it feels like to be depressed, I know, scared, all of those emotions. I know them. I've had them before. And so I feel like connecting through those emotions, like you're saying, is like just thinking of it that way, you know, like, you know, even if you're in that spot, like, can I get like I've been anxious before, or I've I've felt like I wanted to kill myself before, and let's just sit with it, you know, it's uncomfortable, but um, that's that's what the level of the other person sitting next to you is is at.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Absolutely. That that's the one thing that we have to understand too, like the power that we hold in in our in our reactions, in our body language, that's secondary. Like if you're in if you're in their presence, if you're together with them, understand the importance of your body language. Like that's the one thing that I know is super important to be able to dial back a situation. Um that you know, I've I've lived it, I've been there with a friend. Um you if you find yourself in that situation where somebody is a danger to themselves and a danger to others, you've got to be able to read the room, understand that your presence needs to be something that can bring some sort of comfort and guidance to situation. But it's really difficult for us because we want to take charge. We want to be complete, we're completely in control. And we weren't immediately going like in the scene control. It's like, dude, that's not your spot. If your friends trusted you to be there, like how do you, as as worried about a veteran as an organization, how do you help provide that knowledge to the general public or people that are worried about their friends that are going to find themselves in a situation when somebody is in crisis and now they're a danger to themselves and others?

Late Night Crises And Welfare Checks

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, we have a lot of research. We actually, our website is really built around videos uh showing. People that have been through it themselves. And um real stories. There are actually real stories. And there's one like about supporting the uh, and this is actually true. Um, this actually happened to me. And every veteran I bring it up with their like, oh, this happened to me too. But um some of the, you know, frequent flyers we call them, the ones that owe like the opposite issue, where they're constantly calling at midnight, two o'clock in the morning, totally drunk and in crisis. Um, and and what do you do then? You know, it's it causes a lot of burnout, and I'm sure we could talk about that later too, about what that does to you. Because we talk about being vulnerable and that's exhausting. Um, but what do you do when you get those late night phone calls and you know, you're half a country away. Um and, you know, what do you do then? Um so we do we do have um resources on the site for that, but I will say um, I'll give another story. We'll do story time again about this video because um we did have somebody who, you know, I would get phone calls from all my buddies being like, can you talk to him? Because they knew I was in mental health and all right, can you talk to him? And he reached out to me too. And I'm like, okay, we'll just, you know, support as we can. And so, you know, I was helping him out. I'm not a therapist, so I'm just helping him out as a buddy would. Um, like, hey, did you think about a therapist? Did you think about, you know, not drinking so much? Um, yeah, those kind of things. Uh, and one night we got on a text chain, um, a series of kind of frightening thoughts, and then saying, like basically a sign-off, and then it was nothing. So, like, there's 10 guys on the text and a chat, and everybody's like, what's going on? What's going on? Um, and so in the moment, you know, it's scary. What do you do? I was I was in New York at the time, and this guy was in California. Um, and so, you know, a couple of the buddy, like I knew some of them on the text chat. So I we called each other. We're like, okay, let's call the crisis line um and do a, you know, ask for a welfare check to make sure that he's okay. Um, and we kind of like, that's when we problem solve, right? When you're kind of in that extreme crisis moment, like there's problem solving to be had there. Um, and we kind of divvied up the tasks among our our buddy group. Um, and so uh the next morning, the the they did a welfare check. He was fine. He's like, Oh yeah, I'm good. I didn't, I didn't really need that. Um, I was just drunk and just saying some stuff. So imagine these 10 people on this text chat, how exhausted they, you know, they're worried about him. Um, but now next steps. What do we do now? Okay, so that can't happen again. You know, for all of us. So if, you know, like, you know, uh Gonzalez, how about you call every two weeks and just check in with this guy while, you know, I'll talk to him about getting therapy. And, you know, so we each kind of gave each other and divvied up the tasks on that. And that was helpful, especially when you have like, you know, when you have your tribe and people like more than just you. And if you don't have a tribe, then that's where 988 or the crisis line comes in to give you a tribe or these like VSOs or um organizations like yours. Like that's the tribe that you can build for yourself if you don't have one.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Yeah, that is such a great point to bring up because that's one of the biggest things I I get get from guys are on the peer-to-peer support side. Like, we have you can find people that are they have a gift from God, 100% a gift from God. They're intuitive, they know when somebody is suffering, and and it's, you know, not to make this show about Cody Half-Pop, but again, just a remarkable resource for the Green Beret community. Cody, more often than not, he's developed a third sense. He knows when guys are struggling. But the problem is when somebody is really good at their job, they're staying plugged in. So how do you keep people from burning out? Caregiver fatigue is a real thing. And when that number blows up at 4, 3, 2, 1 a.m. over and over and over again, how do you develop a system? And you were just talking a little bit about it, that can be more supportive, that can be, you know, that can actually be sustainable.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Mm-hmm. And and I know we want to take care of each other, but when's the point when it's too much for you? And that's the hardest heartbreak because you don't want to, you know, leave, leave no soldier behind, leave nobody behind. Um and with this particular person, you know, we've all we give gave him all the resources. I even called in, I phoned a friend and was like, okay, I got this excellent therapist, it'll be perfect. Um, but if they're not following through and they're not helping themselves at some point, like over, you know, a period of time, and all you're doing is just giving, giving, um, there's got to be a gut check. Um, and okay, can I sleep at night knowing I did everything I could and kind of putting yourself in that mind mindset? Because um, if you can go to sleep at night being like, okay, I did everything I could within my power, it's all up to this person. That's the biggest uh favor you could do to yourself. Um, because it is hard to let go of that, or else you're just gonna be, you know, doing that for a lifetime and it's it's just stressful and it burns you out.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yeah. You can't be everything to everyone every day, all the time. At some point, you have to be able to be a father or or a wife and a husband that you have to be able to pour back to other people in your actual immediate family. And there has to be something left over for you. So if you're out there in this space and this is resonating with you and and you feel the ownership of this problem set, you're not the owner of it. That that's the stark reality is you can't take ownership of everybody else's crisis. You can't. You have to find a way to set up healthy boundaries. And it also helps the individual understand that he has ownership of the problem set too. You at some point, they have to be able to start walking and moving on their journey on their own. And if you don't set those healthy boundaries, like offer them resources, get them plugged into a network and move them forward in their their own journey, you're also not helping them. So it's communicating.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

It's part of the process. And communicating. So like I was, you know, I had to say to him, like, if you don't attend these therapies, like I put myself on the line for you with this therapist, if you don't attend with him or you like, you know, don't call back, that's when I step away. And so like actually saying that, so there's like that's another boundary, right? So they know that, you know, this is the end of my line if this if ABC doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Yeah. And I know the lot of people out there that I've talked to, and and because immediately one of the big things that I realized is when somebody gets on their healthy, on their journey back from their mental health issues, from the things they were suffering from, and they want to start helping, they want to take ownership of these problem sets and be able to say, well, I'm not gonna let anybody down. I'm gonna move forward. And I'm like, I you're passionate, I love that, but again, you can't say that you're gonna save everybody. That's that's you're gonna fail before you even start. So just be a good resource, be a good friend, be a good representation of the modalities and things that helped you heal and be willing to share them with the community if asked, and if people want to talk to you about it. But don't feel like you have to take ownership of this problem set because it will burn you out. It will cause you to say, you know what, I now I'm back in a worse position. Now I'm struggling again. You have to be willing to be a great advocate, a great voice in this fight, and offer resources and help when you can. But when you hit your limit, be willing to take a knee because we need you in the fight. We need you here longer to help all the individuals that aren't haven't gotten to where you're at.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

So that's you need to be healthy yourself to help somebody else, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Yeah. This episode of Security

Burnout And Healthy Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 30:14

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Firearm Safety And Lethal Means

SPEAKER_00 31:06

of the big things that we don't like to talk about because it's people tend to think it's stepping on the Second Amendment rights and gun rights, and it's not. This is just stats. If there's a gun in a home and the person's suicidal, one of the biggest things that we can do for their safety and for the safety of everybody else in there is to find a way to temporarily transfer those firearms into a safe place with a safe, trusted individual. We're not taking gun rights, we're not advocating taking guns away from anybody. We're just saying that if you know your friend is suffering and he comes up to you and states that one of the easiest things to do is, hey, man, just for the safety of you, for your family's, you know, peace of mind, why don't I hang on to your rifles for a little bit? Hey, can we talk about that peace for a little bit and what your organization is doing to get that out there into the public space so people understand that it's not something that is a lifelong thing that we're trying to initiate. We're just trying to watch out for somebody for just a short period of time.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yeah. And actually, just to do the the website part first, and I'll go into the other stuff. Um, I one of the best things about this website is that it has a map of the US where you can click on your state and see what because every state is different in terms of how you can store your firearms outside the home. Um so you can click on your state and find out what those resources are because sometimes people can't like I know in New York State, it's really, really hard to just give a gun to somebody. Um, but there are ways, they're always around it. And so um the site has that information, which is fantastic and it's pretty up to date. Um so getting and there's also resources on where to go for the most up-to-date information if it is out of date. So really cool, really cool thing. Um how I look at the firearms outside the home and having these conversations is um, you know, the science and and research says, you know, the safest way is to get it out of the house and to store it out of the house. But I mean, you and I probably both know people that are like, hell no, I I sleep with it under my pillow, locked and loaded. Like that's, you know, it's for security and all of that. And so that's understandable. But what are steps that could the whole point is to create time and space between you, like and having a little time to have a thought, like, okay, maybe I don't want to do this and distance. So anything that can kind of create that space and and distance between you and the firearm and pulling the trigger is helpful. And that's right, I how I think about it. So if it's, you know, taking the the ammunition out and putting it like putting it somewhere else, um, uh putting a lock on it, um, putting it in a safe, uh, anything that can kind of create that distance is could be really important in those really critical times. And again, like you said, stressing the temporary nature of it. It doesn't have to be forever. It's just to get you over the hump until you feel better.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Yeah. It's important to understand too, the um uh it's it's not forever. You're giving your friend one less thing that could be easily accessible. One of the things that I've I've realized from every, and this is not this is not me making it up, this is every single person that I've had on the show where we talked about the suicide attempts, or we talked about having those moments where they were about to engage. It was always a firearm. I'm a huge, huge advocate for firearms. I I I have plenty that I enjoy and I love, but I realize it is a tempting thing at your weakest moment. And it's one of the easiest things you can do in this community. Like I have to give another shout out to Okaloosa um sheriff's office. When I had a friend in crisis, when we were at his home, it was one of the easiest things to go through the documentation and because that was the immediate thing he was worried about. He was actively suicidal, actively in a in a barricaded situation. But when he was talked down from it, the number one thing that he he didn't want to lose access to his firearms, but he was willing to trust me to have them. And the sheriff's officer was right there on the spot, signed them over, had a detailed paperwork, everything that I needed to have custody, and then review and resubmit like that fast, that simple. Okay, we're we're gonna take care of you, we're gonna make sure that you're you're not gonna lose access to your firearms. We just want you to be safe in your home. If we're if we're here today worried about you doing something with these firearms, why wouldn't we find a way to have a common ground where you can shake hands and say, okay, you're right, I'm going through something, it's very difficult. I don't know if tomorrow I'm gonna wake up feeling better or I'm gonna wake up in the same situation. But I have a trusted friend here. I'm gonna give them over my firearms and my and my ammunition. And it was simple. And I wouldn't have known that. That could have been something that that was an easy pathway to to resolving that issue if it wasn't for that sheriff officer there being willing to immediately, like, hey, if you're if you're willing to agree with that, we'll do it right now. Friggin', as long as we got a case, everything. And the same thing. If you have to turn them over to the sheriff's department, same process, same custody forms, and everything. And I think that's something that a lot of people don't realize. Um, for the state of Florida at least, in in Northwest Florida, like, have the conversations with your friends. Um as soon as they get help, as soon as they're walking their path, their journey to feeling better, they go to the inpatient treatment facility. Like, boom, they can go back to having their firearms, having the access to they don't have to worry about it anymore. It's just one of the things that we have to understand that in most cases within our our community, in our warrior tribe, that is one of the biggest ways that individuals find themselves committing suicide. And it's unfortunate because it could be something where a friend could step in and say, hey, I'll follow the law, I'll do whatever I have to, I'll keep them for as long as I need to, until you're better, when until you get back on your feet. And it doesn't have to be a year or two years.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

And there are some like some states even have really cool programs where you can take them to uh the uh uh why can't I think of words? Uh a gun store. TBI.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

TBI, because that's that's the other correlated connected issue is traumatic brain injury, the signature injury of the GWAT. So there you go.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Um, like uh firearm shops or gun stores. Yeah. Um you could people take them for cleaning. Um so it's it's the stigma's gone too. So you can like in those moments, you could take them. It takes like or service, you can get them serviced, um, and it's away from the house for a week or so. And that's another way to kind of that some people do that. And that's I think that's really creative and cool. And um, you get your gun serviced. So it's kind of a win-win. Um, but I love what you said earlier too, is that um, you know, it isn't forever. And another thing to think about is emotions aren't forever either. Like getting out of those tough spots. So like you're not gonna be in that state forever remembering that. Like you're not gonna be happy forever either. There's always gonna be a change in how you feel and your emotions and your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Everything dissipates.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Yep. There's always gonna be a change. So remembering that too, I think is important in those situations.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Yeah.

Waves Of Emotion And Grounding Skills

SPEAKER_00 38:51

I I try to tell people, man, I I learned this a long time ago. And it really didn't really hit me until I went through my my entire journey, but it's waves, man. It's waves. Like you life isn't about always being happy. It's about understanding that you're gonna have great moments in life, but you're gonna have bad ones. You're gonna have in the middle. Life isn't supposed to be this constant, like high of always being thrilled, happy, great things always happening. Dude, some days are gonna be tough. You're gonna go through challenges. But having the perspective to understand that maybe today isn't great, but tomorrow could be better. And in fact, it probably will be because it doesn't, things don't stay forever. You bump your your elbow in the in the kitchen table, the does it hurt forever? No, it dissipates, hurts like a motherfucker for like three minutes, and then you're cursing up and down the hallway like a madman, but it dissipates. And a lot of us don't understand that. We're so focused on our suffering at a micro level because we didn't grow up with, you know, great parents. We grew up with, you know, poor adaptive skills, and and we didn't have a frame of reference to understand what life's supposed to be about. Um it's it's up to us as we get older to read, to become scholars of the human condition, to understand what life's all about. Like we have to be better. We have to encompass that beginner's mind ethos, to be willing to understand that like I have ownership of these problem sets. Maybe I need help today. Maybe I need to go get, you know, go to an inpatient treatment center, go to a therapist, do MDR, be willing to do everything you can to be the best version of yourself, to truly understand what you're going through. Because that's the only way we're gonna be able to turn around, face the void, and help somebody come out of it. It's going through our journey and getting better. And and everybody has something to work on. Everybody.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Yeah. And leveling it up. Like I always talk to vets too about, you know, what skills can you use from the military in your like they might not be, you know, one for one, but like there are skills that, you know, I think I I've been trying to think of the name, I've been out too long, but what do you call it when um you have control of your firearm and you have to take care of it um while you're in the operator level one maintenance. Yeah. So like use that now, that mindset, you know, like you're you're taking care of your firearm now and yourself. Like you have to be aware of your surroundings. You can't flag people. Like it's the same kind of concept as like, you know, just like um, it's that kind of state, like keeping that that a safe uh weapon at all times, you know. Um even, you know, I even think about things like in the moment, like taking deep breaths, um, and you know, not doing mindfulness per se, but just taking a couple deep breaths, it really does help. And guess what? It's just like when you're firing a weapon, right? When you do your inhale, hold, exhale, box breathing, box breathing.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Box breathing.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

It's the same thing. So, like, how do we take some of the like thinking about ways that you could take those skills that you had in the military and apply them? They may look a little different, but apply them to what you're doing now and living your life. And because they're great skills. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

I say that all the time. I and the military, even in your infantry, let me tell you, it taught you mindfulness before you even knew what it was. Seal, stop, listen, look, feel like all these things have been part of our lexicon. We just didn't understand that they were grounding techniques. We didn't understand that it was to get you out of your head and into the present moment. I I didn't understand it till I was, like I said, like I went through one hell of a journey. And on the backside, as I was rebuilding, as I was growing, I did exactly what you were just talking about. Understanding that in my experience, in my in my training in the military, they had given me tools that were now labeled as mindfulness. Take a knee, look, listen, like feel, like ground yourself. Okay, what can I see? What can I feel? What can I touch? What can I taste? Like, what can I smell in this environment? Like, these are all things that can help you calm down and regulate yourself. We're we're too we're too hyper-focused on every little detail and not the real things that matter. Like John Cabotson says, if you're breathing, there's a lot more going right with you than there is wrong. Like, understand that. Understand the power of that phrase. Like we get we get told a lot of things when we go through the VA process, which kind of help, like helps with the whole downward spiral and depression of like, oh yeah, yep, degenerative disc disease. You're messed up. You're we've got to get it. Oh my God, I've got a disc disease. That's a broad term. Everybody's gonna have that. Like when you transition out of the military, I I truly feel it's one of the most problematic things that it that you're gonna go through. It's gonna challenge you. The VA rating process, you're so hyper focused on your. Getting that hundred percent. So you're listening to all these things that are wrong with you. Like I've said before, the VA will tell you all these things are wrong with you. And you're gonna be like, oh my gosh, that's all everything's uh all the stuff is wrong with me, PTSD, all these things. Yes, these are real diagnoses, these are real things, but you can combat it, you can work through these problem sets. They don't have to weigh heavily on your mindset, they don't have to sit there and cut and erode on your positivity. It doesn't have to feel so heavy. Take a knee. Understand life's gonna get better. Perspective. When I talk to a lot of people and they're struggling and they haven't got completely out of that crisis moment, they immediately focus and start talking about every single problem they're going through. That rumination and that that focus, that ideation on all the problems. And you'll kind of notice it, that talking in circle. It's like, whoa, how do we break this loop? Do you guys engage or talk about how to like specifically speak to that veteran in crisis and what to say?

SPEAKER_01 45:07

So in in so it's two different things. I think in crisis, I think it is important just to let like if they need to ramble, uh, if they're in that like really, really high state, let them. Um, and maybe that's it. But if like you had said before, like what what do you need from me if there's a way that you can, you know, call 988 together or get them to a place where they calm down a little bit to to take a next step. Um, but for for other ramblers, like we're I think we're all we all do it. I think at some point. Yeah. Um, I go back again, like, you know, in the military, we had goals, we had missions. So what's the mission? What's your goal? What's your mission? And focus that way um in order to, because there's so much. So, like, what can you do right now? What's in my control? I say that all the time to myself. Like, what is in my control right now? I'm like, I have all these things going on, I can't control 75% of them. So let's let me focus my mission on these things. And so what needs to be done first, and then breaking those down. Um, and again, using, you know, we have them. It's just that we forget that we have those tools in our toolbox.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Yeah, it's so true. Um it's it's remarkable what you guys are doing. I don't you keyed in on a little bit ago, the videos. We get so amped and so focused on needing a printout, needing a flyer that we forget about the lived experience. We forget about sitting down and listening to somebody like as you as as an organization when you're capturing these videos, what are some of the consistent themes that you're catching in these interviews about when it comes to like the suicide, the warning signs, the things that are at the surface level that we kind of just blow past?

SPEAKER_01 46:59

Yeah, I think we've covered a lot of them. Like Sid, like the the communication skills specifically and how to communicate a lot of the even the word suicide. So um say instead of being like, oh, are you thinking about hurting yourself or what's, you know, you're not thinking about killing yourself, are you? Like those kind of things versus, you know, just bluntly asking it, being again another like being direct, just like cut to the chase, are you thinking about killing yourself and taking away that stigma of the word itself? Um, and that's you know, that's something we talk about in like the direct communication. Um, if you can't like how to find other support. So the videos have like, you know, do you call your father-in-law um to help out? Oh, or the the your buddy's buddy to help you out. Um, and so just how to make those connections and those networks so you have your tribe. So that's another so we've talked about a lot of those things that are in the videos, the themes, and the fact that it's not just you, like other people are going through this. You're not alone. And, you know, people have been there and they can give the support too and help you out.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Yeah, it's important to understand that you're not in this fight either side of individuals that are suffering and individuals on their helping side. You're not alone. Reach out to the resources and and be willing to tap into the skill sets you have. Like,

Direct Questions And Building A Tribe

SPEAKER_00 48:24

whether you were an S1 uh administrative clerk or you were a, you know, special operations guy, you have tools that can help you in this fight to help others. Like organization and and and data mining, like that's great, gathering detail information for your immediate area, for your friends around you. But lean into the broader organizations that already have some of that stuff built in. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. A lot of individuals have poured their heart and sweat and tears into creating databases and resources. But more often than not, holding space and being willing to Google has been one of the greatest things that has helped me helping other people. Because I would tell you, when I was at my worst, I didn't want to look up things that could help me. But one of the greatest things I've realized is talking to somebody and being willing to say, yeah, man, let's get on Google. There's an inpatient treatment center like in your state. Okay, you don't want to do that. Cool. No, no worries, no worries. What about Warrior's Heart? Okay, I can help you fill it out. Yeah. That is a real thing. Somebody has seen something and they it's in it's already in their mind, they want to try to do it. They want to try to get better. But picking up that phone or Googling or type, just it's so difficult. But if somebody does it with them or for them, I'm telling you more often than not, they're gonna be on that plane, they're gonna get on that car, and they're gonna go to that resource. You just have to be the conduit there to just hold space and talk and and reach out, then. Um be willing. If you're in this fight, if you're a support facilitator or somebody on the on their journey that's a little bit further, like I said, 70, 80% pass in in their healing journey and you want to help out, just holding space and being willing to research and point people in the right direction, there's more than you would think. Um and it's it's incredibly inspiring to see how many people have come through the security hall, uh, you know, doors and DMs, both as people in in need of support, and now on the backside of it, reaching out and sharing their stories of like, dude, I just got a guy plugged into a resource in Atlanta. Hell yeah, dude. Look at you. Now you're in the fight. That's what something we can all do. You have a family, you have kids, you got a wife, you've got a million things out there. But if you can help a friend or an individual, a stranger, find a resource, dude, that's huge.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

And guess what? Those are using your military leadership skills, you know, like it is, you know, even if you're a PFC or whatever, like you we learn those leadership skills and how to delegate and all that stuff from the very beginning, even from basic training. So you don't have to be a sergeant major to do that either.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

Um, sergeant majors are soft, oftentimes the worst. Don't I know? Stop getting a high-end tight. You've been out of the military for like 25 years, dude. Like it's ridiculous. Dare I say, get another ridiculous haircut. Get a man bun.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

It's well, that's reintegration for you.

Resources And The Peer Support Line

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Oh, Kristen, I can't thank you enough for being here today. But before I let you go, please do us, do me a favor and share with the audience again about your organization and how you guys help people.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

Sure. Worried about a veteran empowers loved ones to prevent veteran gun suicide. And we have every step for somebody's journey, um, could be from warning signs uh to how to talk and have those tough conversations to getting resources in your state on how to uh legally store your firearm outside of the home. Uh, and a bunch of, we have so many other resources too, but and especially even for your own mental health. And so while it seems like um there is a large majority of the website for spouses and loved ones, um, it's also built out for anybody. And actually, a lot of veterans themselves come to the website um and to get those, to get those resources for themselves, it's looking like. So that's kind of cool too. So it could be for everybody in the websites worried about a veteran, commonspelling.org. And that's us.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

Nice. Guys, do me a favor, you know, the spiel. Pause the episode, go to this episode description, click those links, and uh get informed or share it with a friend, save it to your home page, share it with masses, give it to the people that you work with. Um, it's something that we all need to have in our back pocket, be able to give it to somebody in the moment, or a supporter that needs to understand how to talk to the veteran. Because I would like to imagine that everybody has a support group or a close network of veteran friends in their hometown when they get out. And the reality is that's not true. Oftentimes we have little pockets, individuals go out there. It's often time our spouses, our our family members are desperately trying to figure out how they can communicate with us, how they can communicate with a veteran. So keep it with you, share it with a friend, share it as a resource. And if you have a web page or you're out there in the sphere, connect with them. Bring them on your show, save their links on your homepage and share it. Because every time we share a resource, we're getting it closer to a veteran that's in crisis. Uh, and that often enough, just having something for them to read or engage with can help them walk back from the ledge. Kristen, thank you so much for being here. I I cannot wait to plug you in with some other resources that I got. Um, one more question. Do you guys do any sort of like web training or or tell uh any sort of like webinars or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 54:10

We do. Um, and yeah, just reach out to us and we can do that. And something as you were talking, we actually got away from well, we're still a static website, but we also actually have a phone number. We partnered with Vets for Warriors. What? Um and so if you're looking on the site and you have some questions or you want to get connected to a peer, you can call our phone line. Um, I could tell you that in a second, or we could just put it in the link. Go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

I'll let you find it. I'll let you find it.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

Um and so you can call and get real-time feedback from from peers that have been through it too. Um I don't know why it's not popping up for me. Hold on just a second.

SPEAKER_00 54:46

No worries, I'll do some uh background. My team's gonna be like crystal. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

All right, it is and we're back. All right, we're back. 844-255-2928.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

There we go.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

So that is that is the call line. If you also want to go beyond the website and ask some more questions, we have that connection as well.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

There you go, folks. Please give that number a call if you need help, need resources. And if you just want to save a good episode description, click the link there. Kristen again, thank you so much for what you're doing. And thank you for being here today. And to everybody listening, and thank you guys for being here. Thank you for pouring into the show. Shout out to our amazing sponsors. Special sponsor I want to mention is Pure Liberty Labs. If you're looking for great supplements and backing a veteran-owned business, check out Pure Liberty Labs or Transcend Health or Precision Wellness Group, or if you're a Green Beret and need help, check out Special Forces Foundation. I'm missing a couple, but that's okay. Oh, nomadic research. If you want some new swags, some new bags, nomadic research, check them out. I'm Danny Caballero. I'm grateful for you guys being here and staying in the fight. We'll see you all next time. Till then, take care.