Security Halt!

Psilocybin, Purpose, and Veteran Healing

• Deny Caballero • Season 8 • Episode 399

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In this episode of The Security Halt! Podcast, Deny Caballero speaks with Ben Kramer, a Marine Corps veteran, firefighter, and licensed psilocybin facilitator, about the transformative role of psychedelic medicine in veteran mental health.

They discuss:

  • Trauma, worthiness, and identity after service
  • Psilocybin as a tool for healing—not a shortcut
  • The importance of preparation and integration
  • Neuroplasticity, awe, and mindfulness
  • Community, gratitude, and post-military purpose
  • Breaking stigma around psychedelics
  • Addressing the veteran suicide crisis

This is a grounded, honest conversation about healing beyond the battlefield.

Chapters:
00:00 – Psilocybin and Veteran Healing Explained
 02:58 – Ben Kramer’s Military to Healing Journey
 06:05 – Why Peer Support Matters for Veterans
 08:59 – Preparation and Integration in Psilocybin Therapy
 11:56 – Trauma, Worthiness, and Identity
 14:55 – Awe, Neuroplasticity, and Mental Health
 17:59 – Mindfulness and Breathwork for Healing
 20:46 – Compassion in Veteran Mental Health Care
 24:03 – Exploring Alternative Healing Modalities
 26:50 – Creating Safe Spaces for Psychedelic Healing
 29:18 – Hypervigilance and the Cost of Constant Readiness
 30:49 – Addressing Veteran Suicide
 32:53 – Breaking the Psychedelic Stigma
 34:29 – Psychedelics as a Catalyst for Change
 37:21 – Ego, Insight, and Integration
 40:04 – Why Chasing Treatments Doesn’t Work
 42:52 – Doing the Work After the Experience
 46:10 – Community as the Foundation of Healing
 50:39 – Transitioning from Military to Civilian Life

Sponsored by: Dr. Mark Gordon & Millennium Health Centers
  Get the book Peptides for Health Vol.1 Medical Edition today.
  Use code PTH25 for 25% off through March 15
  Use code Phase2P for 10% off Millennium products
  Available only at MillenniumHealthStore.com

PRECISION WELLNESS GROUP 
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Connect with Ben Today!

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-kramer-16846127a/

Website: www.fungimentalpdx.com 

 Instagram: @securityhalt

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LinkedIn: Deny Caballero

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Produced by Security Halt Media

SPEAKER_01:

I can't tell you how many people want it coming to me and like, I want to be happy. No, you don't. There's no happy. If there's happy, there's sad. If there's light, there's dark. You want peace. You're right on the money. Something I've noticed, no matter what they're working on, depression, PTSD, anxiety, TBI, no matter what it was, the deepest, deepest, deepest root of all of it that we get down to is always some shade or color of worthiness.

SPEAKER_00:

How do you go from seeing the healing take place to them pulling the strings, going after that medicine, finding it, and now teaching it?

SPEAKER_01:

The healing journey is never ending. One thing that I try to impart on everyone that I get to teach about this is like, I am not a healer. When I work with these veterans, I'm not healing, I'm not doing anything. I'm facilitating them healing themselves.

SPEAKER_00:

I've been searching and uh again, another shout-out to LinkedIn, man. Um great platform connecting with people. I'm always looking for advocates, passionate individuals uh that are in the fight, helping educate and bring these modalities and healing uh uh mechanisms out to our veterans, first responders, or anybody that's suffering. And and psilocybin is something that I'm passionate about because I know intimately what it can do to help individuals that are suffering. And when I saw your pedigree and your background, I was like, I gotta get this guy on. So, Ben, please take it away. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, thank you. Uh so my background, I was in the Marines for five years. I was aviation ordnance and then picked up my wings and was a door gunner on CH 53s.

SPEAKER_03:

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, when I got out, I immediately went into firefighting because it was uh I mean, getting getting out was the hardest thing I ever did, right? Like it was a struggle. Um got into firefighting. It's not the same, but it's damn close. Damn near.

SPEAKER_00:

Damn near.

SPEAKER_01:

Or is it tribes tribe-wise? Um I loved it. I thought I was gonna retire doing that. Um I feel like just like the body can compensate for so long, I think the mind can compensate for a while too. So about five years after I got out, it started it hit me.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Like uh not knowing what I was feeling, why I was feeling it, kind of started me down the the traditional mental health path, right? Trying to figure this out. Um, which I was very opposed to. Thank goodness for my wife being like, you don't have to bury it. Yes, yes, I do. Uh started that. That was a long road. Um I was firefighting for a total of seven years. I was at the fire department. Um about five years in or so, a a guy, another veteran who I worked with, respected very much. Um unbeknownst to all of us on his crew was struggling. Um, went home one night, put a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger, and it didn't go off for whatever reason. He still has the bullet with a dimple on the back of it. Um ended up doing a large dose psilocybin journey and came back and was like this it sounds so cliche, but this dude was like glowing, right? Like came back and it was it was one of those things he didn't tell me he did this. I was like, what what did you do? And he started telling me about it. And I'm a big science nerd, I've been reading about the studies forever, right? And it's psilocybin's always been one of those things like why is nobody talking about this? Like this is what it does for people compared to what we're doing for them traditionally. Like, why where's the disconnect? Right? And I won't put my tinfoil hat on and go down that rabbit hole. But uh he he was kind of the the final linchpin in in like I I need to I need to get into this, right? Um and then it started down the legal path in Oregon, which is where I live, and I jumped in head first. It had what it done for him, what it done for me, once it became legal, I I dove in. So I'm a licensed psilocybin facilitator now. I work with everyone, but mostly veterans and first responders. Um I also am a facilitator with a nonprofit called Heroic Arts Project. Uh, we work with groups of veterans. Um, and I'm the lead educator for Heroic Arts Project now, too, because we're starting to train people on how to sit with veterans because it's a different, it's different.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, it is. Right? Absolutely, man.

SPEAKER_01:

There was kind of a a lack of training in how how to sit with veterans, other than us veterans sitting for each other, which I think is ideal. Um, but I think everyone needs to know because it's gonna the snowball's not gonna stop rolling downhill.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely, man. Uh I I've talked about it before. It's a big problem in the VA. The VA caters to a certain demographic, and then they get these young individuals that are really excited to get out there and work with a specific demographic, and that's not what they meet. Uh, sitting across from them is somebody that's deeply, deeply hurt, dealing with a lot, dealing with moral injury, PTSD, TBI, and they're not the shiny, fancy patient model that was shown to them. It doesn't have pink hair, blue eyes, and and uh a septum ring and a pierced tongue. Maybe some do, but for a vast majority of our veterans, it's not how they present themselves. Uh, and they don't know how to talk, they don't know how to engage. So, what you're doing, peer-to-peer support from a veteran aspect, uh, is very commendable. I'm I'm in that fight. A lot of my friends are in that fight, and it's one of the greatest things you can do if you can just give of yourself just a few hours to be there and break bread with somebody and hold space for somebody. It's very different in the veteran space. And I think more people need to study it and talk about it because when we when I bring it up and I talk with clinicians about it, it's met with the same, well, no, it's not different, and anybody should be able to be willing. I'm like, yeah, everybody should be willing to talk to anybody. But the reality is some of our guys or gals are very stubborn and they're different. And this day and age, after 20 year, two wars in 20 years, we should be willing to at least say, you know what? Let's change it. Let's study this very specific community and develop proper protocols for treating them differently, individualize it. We do it for a whole bunch of the different groups. We should be doing it for veterans, man. Uh, so that is powerful, dude. Um, let's start right, let's let's start with that journey, dude. Like, how do you go from seeing the healing take place to then pulling the strings, getting healed, getting, you know, going after that medicine, finding it, and now teaching it. Like, take us through that journey, man.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, well, it's um it was kind of feels like inevitable.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and uh it was a long, it was a long road. I mean, it's the healing journey is never ending, right? I mean, just period. Um, and I think it's really important. And one thing that I try to impart on everyone that I get to teach about this is like I I am not a healer, right? Like when I work with these veterans, I'm not healing, I'm not doing anything, I'm facilitating them healing themselves. And that's why this works, right? Like, because I don't do it, I just hold the space and them and the mushrooms get to heal together, right? And I just have the safe space for them. I think a big a big passion for me, and and what was really lacking, especially when this first got legalized, was and and the science shows this too. So much of the benefit from psilocybin comes from the preparation beforehand, and then definitely the integration afterwards.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Without those two pieces, this is just doing drugs. Yep, dude. Oh, I'm so glad you said that, man. More power through. Like, don't go and do the drugs that you don't hurt anybody on.

SPEAKER_03:

Great, but yeah, you're not gonna heal anything.

SPEAKER_01:

In fact, you might go the other direction, actually, but I guess we won't get too much into that. But preparation beforehand and the integration afterwards is like is the key.

unknown:

Right?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. That, like you said, veteran or not, has to be individualized. Right. So a big piece of what I do is just working with these people. So the preparation beforehand uh is very, you know, I have to follow the protocols that state law throws out there, right? And the paperwork and stuff. But other than that, the prep and the integration are both very much me providing tools and resources. Right. So the prep is tools and resources on how to make this experience as beneficial as possible. How to work through it if it gets difficult, right? Because it might. Um difficult's not bad. It's like the number one question. Like, what if it's a bad trip? It's like difficult's not bad. Right? As long as you can work through it and you have the resources and a professional, you don't need a professional there, but it can help. Um afterwards, integration is just again, tools and resources, processing, picking up on bigger patterns, things like that. Um the the teaching aspect of it I kind of fell into a little bit, but I love it so much. And for a lot of the same reasons I like facilitating, right? Because it's like those ripple effects, right? You facilitate for one person, you're not just affecting them, you're affecting everyone around them, right? If I get to educate people on how to go out and do this for other people, that ripple effect is exponential to just even sitting with one person. So I I love getting to watch that. And like I said, I'm a big nerd, so I like imparting that knowledge as well. Um yeah, I know you wanted to get into the science of it. Do you want me to kind of also I could give you a bird's eye view of like what the process looks like for some that I work with?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah, brother. You take us down the road, I'll I'll I'll just steer us in the right direction, keep us, keep us off going off the cliff.

SPEAKER_01:

Give me some guardrails, man. Give us some guardrails. Um so usually, especially working like one-on-one, when a veteran responder reaches out, um, it's kind of funny because it's a little bit of what you were speaking to. It's like the first thing out of their mouth is like, thank God I found somebody who understands.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right? And that's it's such an unspoken, I would love for them to do some more research on that. Cause like I you can't even explain it, right? It's like, yeah, all right. I get you, you get me, and there's a lot of unspoken comfort there, I think, which is really important, especially in this work. And then it's just starting the prep work, right? So usually it's uh it's over Zoom because a lot of them are coming from out of state or out of country. Talking about why they're like why they're doing this, right? Like they have to be very clear and how we you know intentions, right? Desired outcomes. Like those have to be clear. They don't have to be like super, super defined, they can be more broad, right? Um, but usually working with somebody through that gives them a better idea of of what they actually want to get out of this. Because I can't tell you how many people want to come to me and like, I want to be happy. Like, no, you no you don't. Like there's no there's no happy, right? Like if there's happy, there's sad, right? If there's light, there's dark. You want peace.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Just straight up. Um something I've noticed this is a little bit of an aside, but it's fascinating to me that no matter what they're working on, depression, PTSD, anxiety, TBI. TBI is a little bit of an outlier. Um, but all the trauma, no matter what it was, the deepest, deepest, deepest root of all of it that we get down to is always some shade or color of worthiness.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Every time. Um, which has been wild to me. Whether it's a elderly woman or a combat veteran, it's like it's been very fascinating to see, myself included. Right? It's it's always some form of like self-worth, which, anyways.

SPEAKER_00:

So what's No, dude, you're you're right on the money. That's I think we all um, you know, and and that's you know, warning. If you're just now listening or tuning in to Security Hall for the first time, we do tangents all the time. So we'll bring it back in the circle. But for right now, we're gonna explore this. Everything that I've I've experienced in this you know, journey of through security hall, talking, having these discussions with fellow vets, um, there is a connecting point in childhood too. That's the other thing. That's the other thing that I'm seeing. And understanding ACES, understanding the childhood adversity scale and everything that you go through in life, if if only we would have been able to have these discussions before we went to combat, uh, I think it would have helped a lot of us to better understand ourselves, what motivates us, what drives us, and also what what we're already carrying in our rucksack. Um, because as we unpack it with the assistance of psychedelics, it's the one thing that gave me that experience that I needed and the problem, and it really showed me the pain and the problem set was deeply rooted in childhood, in something that I had thought that and and I when I set the intention from my experience, it was completely different. What the medicine showed me was completely different. And and I think that there's something to that. Like we don't really truly understand everything. We have to be able to tap into these medicines to really, really finally see what's going on. Uh, and then we can bring it right back. Now we're we're coming back over.

SPEAKER_01:

I think that's that's perfect because it's it's fascinating to me too.

SPEAKER_00:

Like this episode of Security Hall is brought to you by Dr. Mark Gordon and Millennium Health Store. If you've listened to this show, you know how seriously we take brain health, recovery, and long-term performance, especially for veterans and high performers. Dr. Mark Gordon is one of the leading experts in neuroendocrinology and traumatic brain injury. He's just released his new book, Peptides for Health, both the Medical Edition, Volume 1, and the Consumer Edition, Volume 1, are available right now. The book breaks down how peptide therapy supports brain health, hormonal balance, recovery, and resilience in a way that's practical and evidence-based. You can get 25% off the book by using code PTH25 at checkout. Valid through March 15th. And for Dr. Gordon's proprietary health products, Security Health listeners can receive 10% off if they use the code phase2P. Click the link in the episode description to find out more and visit Millennium Health Store today.

SPEAKER_01:

Intentions are super important to have. And as soon as that journey starts, you throw them out the window.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Like I truly, this is what I tell people. Like, we're gonna have them, we're gonna dial them in. As soon as it starts, there's only, and you know, being a Marine, right? I'm gonna break it down Barney style, only three things you need to do to make this journey beneficial, right? One is completely surrender to the process. Whatever comes up, allow, right? Surrender, allow whatever comes up to come up, and then meet it with curiosity. That's it. Right? Don't steer, don't steer away from the bad stuff. It's it's interesting for my veterans. I don't have to tell them not, I have to tell them to not steer away from the good, beautiful, awe-inspiring stuff. Because we have this deeply rooted no pain, no gain, right? So this is gonna fucking suck. If it's gonna be beneficial, this is gonna be a six-hour grind. And it's like, no, this doesn't to work that way. It might, right? But it doesn't have to. So for them, I have to tell them like, don't steer away from the beautiful.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

It's bad. It was a bad trip. Why? What happened? It was just beautiful. I saw the most amazing things in my life. Uh, no way it worked. Man, you hit on one thing that I love to talk about, man. It's awe. Uh that's one of the the hardest and misunderstood uh emotions. Uh and and it's it's so powerful because it's locked for many of us, it's locked in combat. It's locked in Afghanistan, it's locked in Iraq, where you did something that was so much bigger than who you were, and and you went and saw beautiful sights. You romanticize the mountains of Afghanistan. Oh, I was hiking in those beautiful mountains. I'm like, no, you're on a patrol. You're on a combat patrol. That awe, that sense of awe is now locked in that combat experience, but you can have it here. You can have it here. You just have to be free of that idea that it's it's it's only relegated to that. And I think that psychedelics are a powerful way to do that, to let go of the idea that your best moments are in combat. Because the reality is, like, there's plenty to be had here. I mean, you're you're in Oregon, you know, that's a beautiful place. Like you can go out there and and see wonderful things, but I think for a lot of us, that's not accessible unless we have something like psilocybin that can help us facilitate that beginning journey.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think that that speaks to the neuroplasticity that we're gonna talk about too, right? Like you get so ingrained in your head. And and I think I think there's a big there's the neuroplasticity, right? And and being having your brain be more malleable than it's been since you were five years old is all that means, right? So making changes to thought patterns or habits is still something you have to do and work at, but it's easier than it will ever be again for up to two to three months after the journey, right? You have this kind of window of neuroplasticity. There's also this kind of, and this is less scientific as of right now, but just from what I've witnessed, the central nervous system side of things, right? Like getting that hard reset on the nervous system I think allows for that neuroplasticity to be utilized even more than you think is possible. I can't tell you how many people know that like after the journey, I have to tell them to try things again. It's like, no, I already tried meditation, it didn't work. Well, no shit. You've been in fight or flight for 10 years. There's no way you're gonna be able to meditate when you're reaching for your gun every three seconds, right? Uh you gotta retry these things because that I think the nervous system is. Like the biggest component because people start living in fight or flight. This this part's kind of interesting to me. So, like your body likes homeostasis, right? It likes normal. Once fight or flight becomes homeostasis, that's your normal. So when you get out of fight or flight, the body's like, this is dangerous. It's kick up fight or flight. So it's like this dragon eating its tail, right? And you're just so I think that hard reset is is huge. But I think there's kind of two parallel like benefits, right? Like the science benefit. Inherently, no matter who you are, no matter what your journey like, you're gonna get neuroplasticity, you're gonna get central nervous system reset, you know all of these things, right? Then there's this other less tangible parallel line of like things you glean from the journey, revelations or reliving experiences, or rarely is it like a buried memory, right, that comes up. I think a lot of people are worried about it, and it's more rare. Um but you can relive memories from a different vantage point, right? Or all these just totally untouchable things and indescribable things are going in parallel with this like solid science. And I think the benefit comes from both of them. But I can't tell you like the best way, especially with that awe, like when you're in fight or flight, and just humans in general, we're like wired to notice the bat. Because survival, it's a good thing, it's not a bad thing. And then the more you allow yourself, and I think for a lot of people I work with, it starts out with like it sounds like real basic, but like a gratitude practice. Like five things at the end of the day, that's not like I ate food, I have a house, or like, but like weird things, right? Things you had to notice. And then your brain, like you're just training your brain to notice those things more regularly and naturally without trying. And it just kind of spirals from there.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, absolutely. And it's it's rooted in science. Positive psychology has brought more good in my life uh no since I left the military than anything else. Uh it it it is it it's not talked about. You hear about you hear mindfulness, you hear a couple things about focusing on your breath, and you hear a gratitude list, but like, man, when you combine these things into a practice and you really put it in and be intentional with it, really sit down and really focus on these things and write it out every single day, your gratitude list. Like make it a part of your daily. Everybody's talking about journaling, and hey, it's a perfect time too. It's a new year. Like, really focus on writing out the things you're grateful for at the beginning of the day and at the end of the day. Watch how your life changes. When you focus on the bad in your life, what happens? We we know intimately what happens. Everything around you is shit. You're you're angry, you're depressed, like, oh, everything's bad. Flip the script, flip the switch, and start noticing the good. Dialing the feed. Yeah, exactly. It's it's your own personal social media brain feed. What do you want to see? What do you you control that algorithm? I didn't do a good job of that at the very beginning, on the onset of uh my downward spiral, because I was in a lot of pain. All I focused on was on was the pain, the daily issues, all the things that were wrong. And even though my providers were trying to do right, they were highlighting a lot of things that were wrong. And rightly so. They were trying to help me. So I would go home and ruminate on all the things that were wrong. This diagnosis and this diagnosis and this. There's nobody there saying, hey, let's look at the other column. Let's look at the things you got going on in your life that are right. If we are willing to do that just for two weeks, I'm telling you, you're gonna see a change in your life. You will. It's scientifically been proven. You'll see it, you'll witness it. Then you realize, like, oh wow, like there's something to this.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's funny because so many, I'm myself included, like, so many people fight that idea, right? Like, it's so simple. How could it work? And it's like, well, so is eating healthy and working out, but that seems to work out pretty fucking good for a lot of people. Right? Like the breath. The breath is one that blew my mind, and like I I think it's almost with this big mindfulness movement, I feel like it's almost done a disservice for veterans and for like people who thought like me 10 years ago, because you see the guy with the chakras and the crystals, and you're like, fuck all of that. Right? Like, and I I don't feel that way anymore. Like, the more I learn, the more I know, like I don't know shit, so maybe I don't, who knows, right? But but I feel like it's done a disservice when you can really present it in a different light. Like you say mindfulness to these guys I work with, and they're like you see them just like glaze, right? But if you're talking like it doesn't have to be meditation, like for me, it's woodworking, right? You just whatever it is where you can just kind of shut it off and go zen.

unknown:

Right?

SPEAKER_01:

Like, oh okay, that opens up some doors, and like there's so many different ways you just gotta find what works for you, like the breath, simplify it. If your exhale is longer than your inhale, you turn off fight or flight. Like, oh shit, now I got this new tool in the toolbox, and I'm focusing on the exhale and not like just spinning myself up with the inhale over and over again, trying to whim hof myself into oblivion. And it's it's yeah, it's powerful stuff, but it's simple.

SPEAKER_00:

It is, yeah. It's um the the book Breath by James Nestor, um, a powerful book, one of the first ones that gave me that the ability to like understand that I had more control. Uh the same with John Kavat Sin. I mean, that that you to quote him directly, if if you can sit down and uh just connect with your breath and breathe, you'll realize there's a lot more going right with you than there is wrong. You're here. But it's it's one of those things where you can't force somebody to drink. And um you just have to be willing to be patient and meet them where they're at. That's the important thing. Because, man, like nothing's more. Like I tell I tell guys are going through like, hey, when you get through this treatment center, when you get through this part of your journey, trust me, you're gonna want to go to every one of your friends or suffering and shove this in their face. I'm gonna tell you, just be polite, share your story, be willing to advocate and show how it's changed you, but don't go shoving mindfulness and meditation in your friends. Doesn't always turn out right. I got a lot of FUs, a lot of angry faces. But yeah, it's one of those things that when you share all the positive, yeah. When you share your journey, people will see the change in you and they'll ask, and they'll be the they'll be inquisitive and they'll want to see, like, you know, maybe maybe it's time for me to try it. Maybe it's worth giving it a shot.

SPEAKER_01:

That happens so much with psych-I mean, psychedelics, especially like I call it mountaintop syndrome. They want to go to the mountaintops and just scream to everyone. It's like I think another like same vein as like this is you healing yourself, you gotta come to this. Like, this cannot, this will never be a thing that will be prescribed to somebody who's not sure about it and have it will work. I don't think ever. I mean, I don't want to say ever, maybe, right? There might be a few, but there's always a few, it'll work for, but like you, you gotta come to this, gotta be the right time. So that's what I tell everyone to work with. It's like, don't even you can share to the people that you think it's important to share with, but let people come to you because they're gonna notice. Like 100% they're gonna notice. Be like, yo, like what's you're different. What's different about you? You're not sitting with your back to the or you're sitting with your back to the door, like, what's going on? You okay, buddy?

SPEAKER_00:

You're not always complaining and in a bad mood. Yeah, dude. It's um it's funny how these medicines can change you in such a powerful way. And it's understanding that like the old version of you wasn't bad, it was dealing with a lot, and you didn't have the resources. Your brain, the chemicals in your body, endocrine system, they're built to react a certain way. And until you deal with the trauma, until you go through and go through the process of fixing, you're gonna react certain ways. Like it's just I've learned a lot more about compassion in the last few years since going through my my journey and understanding that, you know, it it's we always make fun of the the the grunt style vets, the dudes with their back, you know, I only sit here because I'm gonna have a clear line of sight, I'm gonna be always ready, I'm a sheepdog. And then yeah, we make fun of it, we laugh at it. But the reality is for a lot of those guys, it's not a joke. It's not there is a deep sense of having to be on alert. Not every one of them. Some of them are role-playing, but there's some dudes that are deeply hurt that only feel safe when they do X, Y, and Z and they're they treat everything like a mission. And I don't want that for you. Uh, I want you to heal. I want you to get over that because you can still be that badass capable individual and not have to carry that burden. That's been one of the biggest things that I've had a hard time advocating and and explaining to people, especially our type of guys. Like, hey, the warfighter, that hard-charging dude that you love and admire and you're proud of, he's still gonna exist. This episode of Security Hulk is brought to you by Dr. Taylor Bosley and Persistian Wellness Group. Let's be real. By now, a lot of New Year's resolutions have already fizzled out. Life gets busy, motivation drops, and health ends up on the back burner. But here's the truth: there's no better time to start than right now. Persistian Wellness Group specializes in hormone optimization and hormone health, delivering personalized care and treatment right to your door. If you've been dealing with low energy, brain fog, or sleep, or stalled performance, hormone imbalance, maybe the mistake piece. Dr. Taylor Bosley and his team take a data-driven, individualized approach to help you get back to operating at year fast. Secured all listeners to receive 25% off their initial consultation when they use Security Hall 25 at checkout. Click the link in the episode description to find out more and get started today. He's still gonna be there. He's just not gonna flip his shit when his kids slam the door or when there's fireworks. It's understanding that there's a difference in being ready and being on alert. Like that fight or flight, like that's um that's a hard one to explain to guys because it becomes your default mode. Like that's why I always tell guys too, like that are hesitant to try psychedelics, is like, hey, like maybe try stelic ganglion block. Like those are things that can help you finally open, at least be willing to open up and explore other possibilities.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, it's the that sense of safety is profound, right? Like I was I was that guy. I God, I remember moving into my first apartment after the Marine Corps, and me and my roommate, who was also in the Marines, we fucking cleared that building with our pistols out when they gave us the keys to move in without even saying a word to each other. We got up to the door and like looked at each other, like, yep, this is the normal thing. Everyone probably does this. And it just, it's that sense of safety. It's also what gets ingrained too, right? Like there's both, but that uh it's taxing as fuck. It will wear your body down faster than you know, and I think that's the biggest piece I want to get across to people is like it's like, yeah, I gotta be on all the time. It's like until you until you completely shut down, sure. And then what good are you? Right? So like find that middle ground when you're not reacting to everything like it's a war. And then it's interesting because so many guys I work with have gotten to that tipping point of like nothing else is working, maybe, maybe not suicidal, right? Like they're right on that that verge. And I want people to find this before they get there. And you don't have to be at that very just like end of the cliff to start to work your way back. And like, uh yeah, I don't know. Why why not?

SPEAKER_00:

That's the truth. Yeah, that's that's um let's hit on that. That's one of the things that's um really pressing right now. Our suicide rate in the veteran community is still through the roof. We we I think a lot of people think that we hit this, like it's normalized, like it's steady. No, it's not a steady state, it's not normalized to X amount of numbers. Like, no, like we're losing veterans, we're losing brothers and sisters. Like, that is a reality, and the numbers are going up. Like, that's to be in this fight, to be a veteran advocate, to be somebody whose phone is like they don't turn off. Like both the work phone and the home phone don't turn off because there's always that chance. There's always that that someone's gonna reach out that needs assistance, needs help, get plugged in the right network, and put in the right connection. And we have to be able to talk about this as a legit modality that can help you be more receptive to other treatment options, to other things that are gonna help you continue your journey into healing. It's not a magic wand. Nothing is a magic wand. Nothing is gonna just take everything and solve it, but it is definitely gonna cut your time to get like to get into a place to where you're receptive for the other modalities, the other things that people are gonna ask if you're interested in meditation, journaling, equine therapy, ecotherapy, all these things are out there that I know for a fact I don't want to fucking do and I wasn't willing to do until I got to a point where, yeah, suicide was gonna be a reality for me. And I don't want people to go through that. Like, I don't want you to get all the way to the fucking edge and before somebody intervenes and has to take you to a treatment center, to a facility that will save your life. But I don't that shouldn't be the answer. It should be, hey, are you struggling or you're going through something? Here's an option. I think that a lot of us in a lot of different very successful programs are now amplified. We have Netflix documentary talking about psychedelics, we have psychedelic churches, we have all this outreach, we have podcasts like this, and many others out there trying to championing, but there's still hesitancy. There's still uh a group of individuals within our ecosystem, within our veteran population that still sees it as a you know illicit drug. Like how what have you done or how are you helping to continue removing that stigma?

SPEAKER_01:

I think that's a it's a big one. Um and I think the more first any anyone who's ever tried it, I think will argue against that point, right? Which I think is pretty good evidence in itself. Especially when we have the veterans up there who are straight laced, never done anything, and they're sharing their stories. I think that's huge, right? But I think the more time goes on and it will take time, but this needs to be looked at as medicine and not a drug, right? Especially it and a few caveats. One, you mentioned, like, this is not a magic bullet. Period. Right? Like I so many people come to me and like, hey, I saw this cures 80% of people with PTSD. And it's like, all right, we'll back up. Like, what does cure mean to you? 1% better, 100%, like nobody's walking out of this sunshine and rainbows, right? But it is the catalyst that can, like you said, open you up to the other work, the catalyst that can change your perspective on things that happen to you or change your perspective just in general. Right? Like when you wake up, if your perspective's different, your whole day's different. Like period. So I think there needs to be, and there is more and more and more. Like this is not like the 60s doing drugs and going to concerts. Right. I I mean, God, more power to those guys. I can't imagine. I can't imagine. Like this this is medicine and it's it's work. But I think that's the the key point. I try to get a point to the across to the veterans is like you already know you could do hard things. It's like you can do like this is six hours long. You could do anything for six hours. You know this. This that's it. Like, I don't care how like worried you are. Like, I get it, going inside my head is the most terrifying place I can think to go. So I understand like the hesitancy on that side, but the the hesitancy of it being a an illicit drug one, come to Oregon, it's not. Um not illegal, uh, perfectly legal, Oregon Health Authority certified. Um two this helps people get off of illicit drugs.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I've seen it, I've seen people and again, not a magic bullet, but it's the catalyst that changes from here on out, right? Two, I can't imagine somebody wanting to do this the next day. Right? I've been addicted to substances before. Every single one of them, as soon as I come down, I'm like, well, give me more of that because I feel shitty now and I felt good yesterday. This is not that. Just period. Like you get done, you're like, all right, I need to go process this for weeks or months or whatever that is, right? Go back to your life. But it's it is definitely not that, and it's it's really hard. The hardest part about my job is trying to explain all the unexplainable things about this, whether it's the experience itself, right? Like it's it is ineffable. There are no words to describe what your journey is gonna be like, and it's not gonna be anything like any journey I've ever had because it's you, right? I think that's a big piece is it's you always you hear people, and this reminded me of something else. You can see my ADHD sheet kicking in. Um you hear people saying, like, the mushrooms show you what you need to see, right? I think it's more accurate to say the mushrooms allow you to show yourself what you need to see. Right? They're just shutting down your prefrontal, like they're not giving you this journey. They're shutting down the prefrontal cortex, their your ego, your protector, and allowing the other parts of your brain that have been silenced or stifled to speak up. Right. So it's not this like magical outside influence. It is you. That's why it's perfect for every single person, every single time. That's why you go into it with intentions. Like you did, and you get something totally different, but it was exactly what you needed because it's you, right? And I think this is a big point, you will never show yourself something you can't handle. So for the people worried about like, oh, the bad trip, like, what if I can't you're not gonna do that to yourself? Like it's you're hardwired to not do that. Um the other point I wanted to kind of bring up is something I get asked a lot about is ego death. Like, oh I want the hero dose, I want ego death. One, no you fucking don't. Um two it's not possible, right? Like I hate I hate the term ego death. I think it's much more accurate to say ego ego liberation. Right? Your ego is the thing that has kept you alive and will continue to keep you alive forever. So it's never kill the ego, right? It's let it take a break, maybe for a little bit, get to know it, learn how to work with it. For a lot of us, especially veterans, it's like let it just it's gonna take a nap for a little bit because it's been fucking going in overdrive for for a while, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But it's never ego death. And that has always just drove me nuts. So does the hero dose, because nobody knows what that means. It's just a made-up word. Um especially if you're just weighing your mushrooms and taking them, you have no idea.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's um there certainly a lot of things are catching fire and becoming pop culture lexicon hero dose, uh, ego death. Had a guy proclaiming it at the um you know, what was at the Army Navy game? He's like, I take mushrooms and I took a really big heroic dose with this at a retreat, and now my ego is killed. I experience ego death. I'm like, dude, you're you're wearing a very expensive company Patagonia jacket. You're quite drunk at this moment. I don't think you experience real ego death. Like I don't, I don't think this is it. Don't even think you're that close, buddy. I don't think that you're in the next incarnation of the great Dalai Lama. Uh I'm hopeful for you. Keep going on your explorative spiritual journey. Hey, it's your life.

SPEAKER_01:

But yeah, it's the equivalent in in my world of like the the veteran like sheepdog, right, that we were talking about.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

In the psychedelic world, it's the guys just flashing their psychedelic passports. Well, I've done this many this trips and this many this trip, so I'm obviously enlightened now. So listen to me.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's just like that's that's another problem that I've seen. And my my good friend um uh talked about it, and uh you can get addicted to this chasing treatment centers and modalities and going down and experiencing these great places. Like, yeah, it's at a beach resort, it's in Mexico, it's in it's in Jamaica, got five-star cooks. It becomes a very amazing thing to go do, and it's almost a vacation. But the beautiful thing, this one individual that I that that experienced and and really saw what he was doing, he's like, I kept going to these places thinking I was gonna finally have a breakthrough, have a breakthrough, have a breakthrough, have a breakthrough. And then last time I went, I just sat there and the medicine didn't show me anything. Didn't show him anything. And he realized, like, I'm not doing any of the work, I'm not doing what I need to be doing on the back side of this. The integration piece. It will get to the point where it's not gonna communicate with you, it's not gonna show you anything because it's not meant to be a recreational journey stamping your passport from one treatment center to the next. You're supposed to get to a point where you experience something, it evokes this feeling of you you've met something or experienced something larger than life. Let's get to work, let's be excited for life again. Let's go, let's I need to fix this. I can't go the next 20, 30 years, the same version of myself. I need to evolve, I need to get better. I don't want to be this person anymore. Like, I got to that point and I'm grateful for it. I didn't, I didn't utilize psychedelic medicine to get to that point. I had to do it the rough way. I had to do it the raw black coffee way, going through and realizing, like, you know what? Maybe I will try this meditation stuff. Maybe I will try because right now I'm like I'm alive, I'm in a treatment center. I've got a whole list of things that are wrong, but I now realize that I do want to live and I want to go about life appreciating it. Because let me tell you, like, that's that's the most impactful thing you can do is realize that the beauty is in the process. It's in the work. It's not having this idea that somebody's gonna remove all this pain for you. Like, dude, there's no magic wand. You gotta fall in love with the process. You gotta say, like, fuck, dude. Like, I get to wake up every day, I'm gonna do my best and work hard. And when you when you check the box on some of the things that you let go, some of the bad habits, the bad traits, fuck, that feels so good. When you're no longer, when you no longer drink, when you no longer like self-sabotage, those big milestones, those are huge, man. And and if you didn't, if we did have a magic wand, you'd never get that satisfaction. Like it's not worth it. Yeah, gotta do the work.

SPEAKER_01:

I think that's a a really good point, too, is you you don't need psychedelics to get to this place, right? It's a powerful tool. And I'm not sure I would have gotten here. I I would like to think I would have gotten to where I'm at now without it, with just a lot more work and grinding and setbacks, probably. Um that's just my personal story, right? Like not not everyone needs psychedelics to get to that place, right? It's just another tool in the toolbox. And I think that's important.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah, if it's if it's something you want to explore, absolutely. But if it's not, there's still powerful resources out there. Just it takes finding what you're excited about trying, being positive about it, and actually doing it. That's a thing. You gotta do it. You gotta be willing. If you want to do conventional talk therapy, you gotta be honest. Because let me tell you, I burned an entire year selling a lot of bullshit to my first therapist. That was not the way to do it. And and I will tell you, when you let yourself be vulnerable, when you let yourself finally say what's really going on, what you're really dealing with, the pathway to getting better is so much easier. People start giving you avenues, they start giving you resources to try. And that's the reality of it. You just have to have that ability to find vulnerability. And I do think that with psychedelics, it's helped a lot of people. I've I've had people in my life that were the most unbelievable, stubborn individuals that weren't willing to divulge how deeply um traumatized they were, how much pain they were dealing with, the things that they had dealt with in their life through psychedelics, they're finally able to get to a place where they're like, you know what? I'm gonna talk about this. I went through all this, this, and this, and I'm willing, I'm ready to go to therapy. And I'm like, holy shit, like pause, time out. You've what happened? What did you go through? Willingly to and it enables you to have that ability to seek out and be willing to say, like, hey, I need help for this, this, and this. And you people don't have to pry it out or fish it out of you. It's another thing with the veteran population. We're very resistant, very hesitant to freely give up and divulge. We want that provider to work for it. I don't know why. That's a thing. Like, that's that's deeply us. Like, we're like, um, I'm gonna make sure they get the truth out of me the hard way.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. That's I think again, like finding the right modality, right? Like even within psychedelics, like within psilocybin, right? Like, I work one-on-one with veterans, and then in Heroic Hearts Project, we do group veteran retreats. Like a lot of that healing is in the group, right? Like, it is that being extreme like at your most vulnerable, but you're with other veterans that understand, right? You don't have to like explain like or try to, and right, you have this group. I think that's that's a huge, I mean, just for society in general, right? But veterans, especially, that tribe when it gets yanked from you, is just brutal. And I think that gets talked about a little bit and more now, thank goodness. But like it's such a huge piece. And so sometimes it's just like it doesn't have to be a group of veterans doing psychedelics, just like find a group of veterans and just be vulnerable and see what that feels like. Dip your toe in that water and tell me that's not addicted as hell.

SPEAKER_00:

Dude, and it and it doesn't have to be in person, you can find lots of virtual support groups for veterans out there. Um, it's in-person does have some some awesome qualities, but I'd I'd beg to say that for our younger veterans who feel more comfortable in that virtual space, it can be just just as rewarding to meet in the lobby. And in fact, you know, we're utilizing things like Discord, um, you know, Twitch, video games to connect. Like, I've seen more people treat their online community of video games and and and discord chat rooms, story shape culture. They build trust. And when they're told the right way, they move people to action. That's what we do at Security Hall Media. We don't just produce content, we create authentic, impactful, and purpose-driven storytelling. Podcasters, nonprofits, brands, and leaders who are on a mission. From people who've lived real experiences and want their message to actually matter, from podcast production and video to strategic storytelling and distribution. We help you clarify your voice, elevate your brand, and connect with the audience you're trying to serve. If you have a story worth telling and a purpose behind it, Security Hall Media is here to help you tell it the right way. Click the link in the episode description to learn more today. Like a therapy session. I know when we first started this whole thing, like we utilize Discord a lot, and you'd be amazed of how easy it is to talk amongst brothers when you're all playing a video game. I don't know why it's so hard when we're in person having a coffee or sitting down, but sometimes that vulnerability only happens when you're in that you're in your room playing a video game, and then things slowly evolve, and that discussion opens up, and it's like, man, I think I'm having issues with alcohol. I think I need to dial it back. And it's like, dude, we're literally playing Mario Kart, but yeah, cool. All right, yeah, let's talk about this. Like, yeah, that's awesome. But it's yeah, I I think that as you know, as we've grown into the space where people are now now more than ever engaging online, like veteran peer-to-peer support looks different. Like I've I've run one through Security Hall, and um just having just the power of knowing that you can click on a Zoom group link and be around other veterans and talk openly and not be judged. I think that's a big thing. Um, but man, I I still think that one of the biggest problems is connection, and we need that face-to-face. Like if you only want to engage on the virtual, I get it. But man, like you're missing out on one of the best things about being a human being. That's being able to connect with another human being and do something like as simple as a workout. I think some of the most successful veteran um models, veteran treatment models uh for nonprofits are out there. I think 22, so mission 22. Yes, mission 22. Like the their their pathway to you know helping people is hey, this is this is what we're gonna work through in accountability and coaching you. But one of the things, one of the things that you have to do is you have to join a uh a gym. And more importantly, it's gotta be a CrossFit gym. Why? Because you actually have to engage with people in a CrossFit gym. Yeah like not like when I go to the gym at 4 a.m. and it's just a bunch of people and machines and different stations at a CrossFit gym. You got to talk, you got to communicate. Um, and that's something that I realized in this phase of my life, that is one of the most rewarding things. Getting out and talking to other people. Like it instantly helps you with the uh with if you're dealing with your if you're dealing with depression, if you're dealing with anxiety, like engaging with others. Then yeah, you got your family, you got your friends, but trust me, go make a new friend, go talk to a stranger. Ask even better, ask them how they're doing, put an emphasis on how others are doing around you and engaging and wanting to put that compassion and outwardly, and that I mean it self-compassion is important too, but you know, expressing it outwardly towards strangers, radical concept. I know. In today's uh in the world we live in today, with everybody going after each other on social media, like it does the wonders for your mental health, man. Like I think more people need to talk about that.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think also the more people do that, the more people realize like, oh, we're like we're really not that different. Yeah, we're not so divided. We're really not divided. Like, I don't know what I've been watching, but everyone I've talked to seems pretty cool. Maybe we're okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. I haven't had a bad interaction with ice. Um knock on wood. Yeah. Although I these I do need to upgrade my passport. Uh naturalized citizen. Well, dude, I want to I want to focus a little bit of time on uh one of the most pressing issues for our veterans, and uh, we opened it up a little bit was your transition. Um, you know, we we highlight first responders, firefighters, and police officers on the show as well. Um because the brotherhoods are connected, the tribes are connected. And it for a lot of us, when we lose the mission, lose the purpose, lose the identity, that's a quick way to solve all those issues. Can you take us through your transition as we close out? Like what led you to choose firefighting and how did it inevitably did you find yourself walking away with it? How did you find that mission and purpose again on your own, just for you?

SPEAKER_01:

I think that that last piece is a is a big one because it's so finding firefighting, um honestly, it was uh I could get out, get my EMT quick, and get get going firefighting, right? And one day on, two days off, like this is before I had three kids, so my mind was that's plenty of time to surf in the snowboard, so that's gonna be great.

unknown:

Right?

SPEAKER_01:

Throw some kids in the mix, and that's it's different. Um and I had some buddies at the department. It was a pretty big, pretty big fire department. Had some buddies there. I grew up watching that, like just idolizing, right? Like same, same as the the military. Like I joined the Marines because I wanted to be a cool tough guy. Same for firefighting, right? This was my mindset then. Um, I think the tribe concept of it was very much there. I think it was subconscious though. I don't think I really knew that was such a big part of why I was so drawn to it. Um it was still not what I was looking for. I mean it was it it like 99 not even 95% of what I wanted in the tribe, right? But there was still like that five like intangible I trust most of these guys they probably wouldn't all die for me, but some of them would, right? Marines, I didn't question that once, right? These guys are all dying for me, I'm dying for them, period. It still wasn't quite the same. As close as you're gonna get in the civilian world though, I think. And I still I love those guys to death, um, and it was a great experience. What I didn't anticipate was getting out of firefighting, even though I I couldn't be happier with how I ended up, and I'm more passionate about my job now than I ever have been in my life. That first part of getting out, my identity was gone. Just got like all over again. And I didn't pick up on it the first time because I was so focused on being like, I was a Marine, but now I'm gonna be a firefighter, right? So it's like I knew where my identity was going, so I wasn't too concerned about it, right? But once I'm not a firefighter, it hit me super hard, and it's something I thought about a lot is like what's the first thing you say to people when you meet them at a party? What do you do? Because that's who you are in my mind and your identity, right? And that's who we think we are. I'm a firefighter. That feels fucking good. I like that. Okay, I'm gonna keep doing but the first time I can't do that, like like who am I? Right? Like it's like an existential breakdown. Like, I have no idea what to do with this feeling right now.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think that really highlights not even like losing your tribe piece, but like losing your identity. Yeah. Like as silly as it is, like getting out of the Marines. I remember like sounds so stupid. Like walking around with other civilians, and I'm a civilian now, and like no one's telling me good morning, sergeant. Like, who the fuck? Like, don't you know who I am? Like, and just like these weird little like we have, like that's not but it's a I think it's a big piece, right? You just like now you're everybody else. And what are you gonna do with that feeling? Like, there's no and on top of that, you gotta find a place to live, you gotta pay bills, you gotta you know how many times I forgot to eat because no chow hall was telling me like it's lunchtime. Like uh it's ridiculous. Like, why is that? Like, I'm a grown ass man, and it's like nine o'clock, like god, I feel cranky, like oh, I haven't eaten today because nobody told me to. Like, it's all little things piling up, and then there's the no tribe, and then there's the no identity, and you gotta like build it up from scratch, unless you have a really clear plan going out, and not a lot of guys do. I didn't. I like no, no, it was it was a struggle, and it's a s I think it's a big struggle for I think that's a bigger struggle for most people. I don't think PTSD would be the issue it was if there was a better way to manage that other part of it. Right? Um whether that's like getting out and coming, like you ten people are getting out together, you're gonna move into a commune and figure out life or whatever whatever it is, right? That's Cancer, but um yeah, it's I think they very much go hand in hand um and exacerbate each other exponentially too because like remember the first therapist I had I was like telling him like I slept like a baby in Afghanistan, like I haven't slept a wink here, and he was like, Well, no shit, you don't have a hundred brothers with rifles sleeping next to you, and I was like, Oh, that makes sense, but it's not something it just it didn't make sense before, right? Like now I'm safe, why can't I feel safe? Um Yeah, I think there's all these little components, and I think the biggest piece that you already I mean community, right? If you can like get together with a group and talk about this and be like, you felt that way too, like, okay, like like that's huge in itself. It's such a small thing, but it's huge.

SPEAKER_00:

It is. It's a big factor, man. And a lot of us go our entire lives without understanding the importance and what role um connection with other human beings plays in our lives. I mean, there's white white paper studies, and great authors, great healers are out there writing these books, but we don't we don't get exposed to it as men, especially service members, um, because it's not pro it's not important, it's not prioritized in in our formulative years. No one's coming up to us like, hey, it's gonna be really important for you. Before you get out of the military, that you read a book about self-compassion and how how to connect and communicate with people authentically and just be yourself. Nobody's doing that. We're all trying to figure it out. But to you listening at home, take that bold step in the right direction. Be willing to pick up a book by somebody other than Jack Carr. Kristen Neff, Dr. Kristen Neff wrote a great book about self-compassion. I know it's tough to read. I don't want to read about a chick. Dude, she's really fucking cool. She is awesome. Her research is great. And I'm telling you, if I would have utilized just a small fraction of the knowledge from that book, I would have may have been a green beret. My entire job was to connect with an indigenous partner force and teach them how to overthrow their government. I think it could have helped me connect with people a lot easier. But we don't talk about it. We don't, we don't use those concepts. It's but it's okay because now on the outside, I can read whatever fucking book I want and utilize into my life. And that's a great aspect of it. We need to understand that we're multidimensional human beings. Like we, there's levels to this game, dog. You're you're an onion. There's layers to you. When you transition out of the military, learn about the other parts of you you never got to explore. Within you, there's a storyteller, there's a writer, there's an actor, there's a podcaster, there's an artist, there's somebody that is dying to get out and learn this new skills. Embrace them all. Be willing to dive into it. The most important role isn't behind you. It's ahead of you. The father, the husband, the literally coach, freaking the community leader. These are all things that are in your path. They're there. If you want to pick them up, if you do. I certainly hope you do. I hope you connect with that and that message resonates with you. And you decide that you do want to be the next great community leader, or you are going to have kids and you are going to raise a family. We need great men out there. And the only way that we can continue to grow and champion this idea of really building an American, a great American nation is by understanding the roles that we play in it. Like being a soldier, being a marine, being an airman, and whatever you Navy guys call yourselves, I won't say because I don't want to get censored, seaman. That was just a small part of your life. The rest of your life, it's up to you. And I certainly hope that you figure out how to define it and make it the best it can be. Because there's so many great examples out there. I mean, look at this man. He's out there healing our warrior tribe. I mean, he could have been a podcaster like me. Thankfully, he's not. Uh, this is not a great higher calling. I think it is. I'm just joshing. I think it's great to get out there and advocate. Stop with negative self-talk.

SPEAKER_02:

Come on, man.

SPEAKER_00:

We need we need people talking about this stuff, man, because it doesn't get enough air time. So if you want to pick up that man, I'll go ahead and do it. But ultimately, what I what I want to leave this episode on is whether you go into corporate America or you become a somebody that's deeply in the fight, in the trenches like Ben, it's up to you. But the first thing you got to do is heal. You got to recover. You got to be willing to dive in, get dirty. One last mission. One last mission, baby. Be bold, be daring, get in the fight, stay in the fight. You don't have to do it alone. Reach out for help. There are tons of resources out there. If you're a Green Beret, use the Special Forces Foundation. They are open day or night. 998. If you're really struggling and you need immediate access to somebody that can help you, call that number or any of the thousands of nonprofits out there that can help you today. Don't lose your fight. Call for resources. Call for somebody to be there for you in your hardest moment. It's it's hard. I know how hard it can be to really be vulnerable and pick up that phone and call, but just treat it like if last treat it like a mission in Afghanistan. You gotta call for QRF.

SPEAKER_01:

Embrace the suck.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. You you wouldn't. Part of you would be like, ah, fuck, I gotta call higher for resources. But you know what? Fuck it. Call. Call for QRF. Call the backup. Get help today. Don't stay in this fight by yourself. Ben, I can't thank you enough for being here, man, and for everything that you're doing. I'd like to get you on one of my other shows. So after this, after we wrap it up, I'll give you the deets on that. But um, yeah, man, thank you for what you're doing. To everybody listening, thank you for tuning in. Season eight. Holy shit. Things are changing. I got uh new cover art. It probably won't drop anytime soon because I gotta take a new photo. I'm really behind the weeds and all my other do outs, but uh I gotta get it before my master starts again. Um we're recording this on January 6th. I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna put it, I'm gonna put pressure on myself. I'm gonna air it next week. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna put it out there.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks for having me, man.

SPEAKER_00:

Subtle subtle foreshadowing. You got this. He doesn't get it out in time. That's okay. I'm just joking. Yeah. Uh now I have an editor, so it's on him, but I got to get it to him in time. I gotta get it to him in time. I can't be I can't be dropping it last minute like I'm going to today. Ben, thank you so much. Everybody listening, thank you for being here, and we'll see y'all next time. So then, take care.

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Deny Caballero

Host