Security Halt!
Welcome to Security Halt! Podcast, the show dedicated to Veterans, Active Duty Service Members, and First Responders. Hosted by retired Green Beret Deny Caballero, this podcast dives deep into the stories of resilience, triumph, and the unique challenges faced by those who serve.
Through powerful interviews and candid discussions, Security Halt! Podcast highlights vital resources, celebrates success stories, and offers actionable tools to navigate mental health, career transitions, and personal growth.
Join us as we stand shoulder-to-shoulder, proving that even after the mission changes, the call to serve and thrive never ends.
Security Halt!
From Special Forces to Law: How Veterans Can Win the Transition
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In this episode of The Security Halt! Podcast, host Deny Caballero sits down with Craig Kochheiser, a former Special Forces soldier turned attorney, to break down the realities of military transition and career reinvention. Craig shares his journey from Special Forces to law school, the lessons learned navigating the VA system, and how programs like Chapter 31 Vocational Rehabilitation can change a veteran’s life when used correctly. This conversation is a practical, motivating roadmap for veterans looking to advocate for themselves, pursue higher education, and confidently bet on their next chapter after service.
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Chapters:
00:00 – From Special Forces to Civilian Life
01:22 – Craig Kochheiser’s Military Background
07:59 – The Reality of Military Transition
15:44 – How to Navigate the VA System
24:49 – Law School After Military Service
35:19 – Chapter 31 Vocational Rehabilitation Explained
45:14 – Life as a Veteran Attorney
52:28 – Betting on Yourself After Service
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/craig-kochheiser-13164895/
Links to programs mentioned:
VA Vocational Rehab page: https://www.benefits.va.gov/vocrehab/links_resources.asp
Veteran Readiness and Employment Manual: https://knowva.ebenefits.va.gov/system/templates/selfservice/va_ssnew/help/customer/locale/en-US/portal/554400000001018/content/554400000146267/M28CIA1-Veteran-Readiness-and-Employment-Manual
Veterans Affairs Benefits Handbook:
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Produced by Security Halt Media
I went from being in charge of something and being something bigger than myself and being a part of a mission and then poof, it's gone.
SPEAKER_01:Deploy come back and it's like taking off the hat and walking off the ramp, getting back to your home life. It's a situation a lot of National Guard guys find themselves in.
SPEAKER_00:I've redeployed back home and I don't have that other than you know going to drill once a month, maybe going to a school when fun's allowed. It was a different part of my personality and trying to find what worked for me. I didn't have a college degree, I didn't have a TS clearance, so it limited a lot of what I could do at the time.
SPEAKER_01:You literally have two lives. You have a civilian life, an employer often that doesn't really understand the commitment of being a Green Beret in the National Guard. Absolutely, man. We we uh connected a while ago on on Instagram. I think I put out some information trying to find people that had stories about vocational rehab, stories about going out there and chasing big dreams. And uh, dude, you're doing some amazing stuff. And uh, you know, we we try to get it on the calendar a couple times, but we're finally here. So uh today, man, I want to dive into your journey, not just the the great stuff you're doing now, but where it all began.
SPEAKER_00:Great. Uh yeah, thanks for having me on. Uh it definitely you're trying to get all the uh the ducks in a row between both of our family lives, professional lives, everything else, trying to squeeze that time in uh has been uh a bit of an ordeal, but here we are. So let's uh let's get to brass tacks. Let's get it, man. So just by by way of background, you know, a total 22 years in the Special Forces Regiment, split between uh National Guard time as well as active duty time, both you know, finished up our careers at Seventh Special Forces Group. Uh wonderful adventure throughout the entire course of it. You definitely got to see the the best in humanity as well as the worst. And you know, some of these challenges prepared me in my own you know transition from active duty to the next ridgeline. Um they they definitely gave me the fortitude and the uh the you know the background and knowing that hey, it it's not that hard of a day. Um, it could always be worse. You know, nobody's shooting at me and I'm not on fire. So you know, it academics are not that hard if you put the work in. And so, you know, to kind of go into the the journey, uh, you know, came out of uh high school, went to undergrad, always knew that I was going to go in the military, joined the National Guard. I was in RTC at Florida State University as an undergrad and you know, had had the anticipation of uh becoming an officer. And you know, the goal was like, hey, maybe I could go to 82nd or maybe even work my way into you know Ranger Regiment. And uh the SF thing had never really crossed my mind because it just seemed like such a lofty goal. And in the National Guard side of the house, I had a couple folks being in Tallahassee, Florida, that had come out of uh Ranger Regiment and other places so they could go to college. This was all pre-9-11. And an opportunity came up for 28th Special Forces Group out of Florida and was able to, you know, go and be a part of their non-qualified personnel program. And basically, you're just a you know, a grunt and you're just doing PT every weekend and preparing to hope to go to selection because at the time SF was a you know kind of an outlier. Uh 9-11 hadn't happened. It wasn't, you know, not everybody knew about it. People knew about it from the Vietnam era, but you know, in in the modern warfare pre-9-11, it wasn't as as important.
SPEAKER_01:Dude, absolutely. A lot of people forget about that. A lot of people forget that. I mean, we even had we had huge cuts during the the Clinton administration. You know, I'm I'm lucky that I study this history for for um you know a lot of the posts I make for you know, clients of mine and their social media is uh have the same, you know, we're trying to attract the same audience. And in my own research, seeing the amount of groups we used to have, we used to have reserve component staff groups, like 11th and 12th. Yeah, yeah. Like insane amount of of cutbacks, and it wasn't it wasn't as sexy of an organization.
SPEAKER_00:It it I mean, it changed dramatically. Uh, I happened to have an opportunity, they they drove us up in a van in June 2001 to go to SFAS. And like we walked on. They, you know, they're like, hey, you know, the the guy checking names, they're like, hey, what's that over there? And they threw us on the the old tan cattle trucks, and then the you know, the National Guard liaison was aware of it, and they're like, Oh, there's gonna be folks that don't show up. So when you get there, just act stupid and I'll be there and we'll get you situated. And so, like, five of us just kind of pretended we were supposed to be there and went to selection that way, and that was June 2001, the last class before 9-11 happened. And so I always joked with guys throughout the my my journey that you know when they said they didn't want us and didn't need us, they they meant it. It was just you know, the constant evolution of selection. We started with like 400 folks, and they reintroduced uh the star exam as a gated component. And so we went from you know, very quickly from 400 to under 100. Uh and so we graduated this very small class, I believe it was like 70 or 60, and then you know, however many got selected, and just a cool experience. And then 9-11 happened, and I was a college student, and it was like, okay, well, this is bigger than me, and and I was mobilized, so it wasn't like I had a big choice, and so went to Fort Bragg and went through the the Q course and came out and found myself in Afghanistan about four months later, and you know, that's kind of where the the ball all all went from there and you know, all told. I had some contracting time. I did like seven months contracting time with a company after that first deployment, which was a great educational, like militarily wise, um, because I had folks from various nations, you know, New Zealand SAS, Australian SAS, the UK. Um, you know, we had some Five Eye partners. I had you know Amounty from their HRT from Canada, um, JTF2 guys from Canada, and then we had you know tier one guys from the US and SF guy, and I was you know, I was the bottom rung at the time. Uh I was the least experienced guy, and I just absorbed and took it all in and you know, tried to keep my mouth shut and work hard, which is sometimes you know easier said than done. But I it was a good experience and I learned a lot from it, and then rolled into some other deployments, uh OIF with 20th group, Afghanistan again with 20th groups and J Sets, uh, did some different like SOC South time, um, went active duty, got to be a liaison at JSOC for one of the task force and learned a ton there, and then ended up with my my career at 3rd Battalion 7th and was uh 18 Fox at the company level and then back at the team level and had a great journey.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, man. And and uh I want to, you know, we we did a good broad overview, but I want to take it back like to highlight something that I know a lot of my National Guard uh SF brothers deal with. The the mission isn't 24-7. Like you have you have two lives. You literally have two lives. You have a civilian life and an employer, often, that doesn't really understand the commitment of being a Green Beret in the National Guard because you still have to maintain the same physical fitness, you still have to be spun up and smart and be proficient in all your tasks. I know it goes across the board for other National Guardsmen, but it's even more important for a Green Beret. Like, what was that journey like? Coming out 9-11, you now have this clear understanding that you're going to deploy, you deploy, come back, and it's like taking off the hat and walking off the ramp, getting back to your your home life. It's like, well, I'm still a green beret, but I'm not a green beret right now, and I gotta put food on the table. Like now, and then it's a situation a lot of National Guard guys find themselves in. Like, where do they go? And a lot a lot of them choose contracting. Like, what led you to find that uh find yourself in that situation?
SPEAKER_00:You know, I was I was young. I was a a pretty young guy. Got to a point where you know academics weren't the right fit for me at at that point in my life. I didn't have you know, I had the maturity to to go be a good SF guy, but I didn't have the maturity to to force myself to go to class and to do the that that right choices. And uh came off that deployment as around 04, early 04, and you know, found some some work. It wasn't fulfilling. It it definitely took a toll. Um, you know, I I went from being in charge of something and being something bigger than myself and being a part of a mission, and then poof, it's gone. I've I've redeployed back home, and I don't have that now, other than you know, going to drill once a month, or maybe going to a school when funds allowed. Um it was a different part of my personality and trying to find what you know worked for me and financially, and I didn't have a college degree, I didn't have a TS clearance, and so it limited a lot of what I could do at the time. And that's you know, a buddy of mine went through triple canopy selection process, and he's like, Hey, this may be a good fit for you. And uh I made it through somehow, and it it worked out, it was a great experience. I learned a ton. It yes, uh, you know, contracting at the time, being 25 years old, had a certain financial appeal to it. Oh, yeah, and you know, was was able to come back and you know, I and I'll say this in it's all relative because looking at what that income is for somebody with 20 years in, uh, you know, versus like you know getting a professional degree or something like that, it it loses a lot of the shine. But at 25, it was like, wow, that's a lot. You know, older with with kids and everything else, it you know, it's a different um metric. It's a different way that I weigh that value. And so, you know, coming out, I I wanted to, you know, find my own pathway and and challenge myself in other ways. But you know, did the contracting piece and then was able to, you know, do about six months after the contracting piece and then another mobilization with the National Guard, found myself in Missoul, Iraq, and like just doing the mission and and was on a really strong team at the time uh with some amazing folks and loved it. And the right place, right time, there was the surge happening in central Iraq. All these knuckleheads were going to the north where they, you know, had kind of safe haven. We had a great relationship with some of the other units there locally, and and we stayed busy. And it was very fulfilling the work we were doing and being able to see the impact. Um, you know, what we were doing was nested within the bigger picture, and I found that very fulfilling.
SPEAKER_01:This episode of Security Health is brought to you by Dr. Taylor Bosley and Persistian Wellness Group. Let's be real. By now, a lot of New Year's resolutions have already fizzled out, life gets busy, motivation drops, and health ends up on the back burner. But here's the truth: there's no better time to start than right now. Persistian Wellness Group specializes in hormone optimization and hormone health, delivering personalized care and treatment right to your door. If you've been dealing with low energy, brain fog, or sleep, or stalled performance, hormone imbalance, maybe the missing piece. Dr. Taylor Bosley and his team take a data-driven, individualized approach to help you get back to operating at your best. Security Hall Listeners received 25% off their initial consultation when they use Security Hall 25 at checkout. Click the link in the episode description to find out more and get started today. I mean, it it's truly playing professional football. Um, you know, you spend all the time training in J sets, and it's it's always described as your back home time is the thing that you're just like finding ways to get through the motions just to get the deployment. And it became this culture within not only just in active duty groups, but in the National Guard groups too. Like, I know guys that were just chase deployments, just jump on rotations as much as they can, augment different active duty groups, trying to get in as much. Was that ever something that you found yourself in? Like, because it I have to imagine it does seem alluring to see the idea of like, well, I can just jump in on any deployment. I can just, hey, like, I can just request this. Is that something you thought about at all?
SPEAKER_00:Of course. You know, the the the guard has pros and cons, like anything else. And you know, we used to refer to those guys as war whores because they were just you know go going after it. And yeah, you know, bless them, they they were choosing to stay in uniform versus you know the contracting piece, which you know, some people have certain feelings about. I the contract work that I did was in direct support of U.S. Department of State mission, and in the area we were in, it it was very fulfilling because it was you know getting the the Kurdish population into the elections, and it was during the time of the first Iraq elections, and you know, got to do a lot of face-to-face time with key influential figures. You know, granted, I'm I'm sitting by the table, not at the table, but just hearing and and listening to what was happening, or even you know, being asked a question or something like, hey, what was your impression of that? Like, wow, my you know, I'm I'm I'm listened to in in even the briefest moment of something. And it's like I don't have a stake in national security decisions, I don't have the background or the knowledge, but they're just you know at least have enough respect in in me and what I do to just say, you know, hey, what what was your thought on that? Yeah, it may have only happened twice, but wow, that was that that made me feel pretty important. Uh you know, going back to kind of the guard thing, the pros and cons. You know, sometimes there there's no funding. You know, so there's some flexibility because you know, if you're an eager guy on a team that that wants to pick up schools, there's a lot of folks that they don't have the time to do schools, they've got a a career, they've got family, and so you're competing against less guys to get those slots, it seemed. There were certain opportunities, but then on the other, the downside is it it's you know, you're trying to balance, right? You still got to put food on the table, and sometimes it is one weekend a month, sometimes it's you know, all the weekends and all the days in the month, but you're it it's hard to balance that. The other issue I saw was you get folks that stay in the same unit, and it builds a certain amount of uh cronyism and almost like a nepotism type feel, which sometimes it's it's okay because hey, if if a guy's a great guy and he's there for 20 years, he sh he should get all the the favoritism, right? He's a rock star, but other times you definitely like you know 10 years prior, you make make the wrong person mad, and now they're your Sartre Major and they remember you, yeah, not in a positive way, and it's the same Sartre Major for the next two decades.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um so yes, there can be you know negatives to it, and there's a lot of pros. And having seen both at each phase of my life and my career, they were the right fit.
SPEAKER_01:You know, there's there is a a moment, I think, that every senior guard member flirts with the idea of going active. I've certainly seen it in my a lot of my friends that are 19 of 20th group. Um, and it's usually a company with a really good deployment. It really, it really comes out like, man, this is a this is a solid group of dudes. I don't want to do this as a as a part-time gig anymore. I I want to live this. I I want to live this time, this life full-time. Like, when did you find that that was the case for you?
SPEAKER_00:I I had always kind of toyed with the idea, and I was able to kind of satisfy that that personal demand because of the op tempo and the schools and the the deployments that that I was doing up until things yeah, it was probably around 2012, 2013, kind of winding down a little bit. And then you're like, oh, okay, maybe, you know, toying with the idea, not satisfied in in you know, a civilian career, and it just became like, hey, this is my passion. Let me let me go full in, and and I did, and you know, I'm very happy that that was a decision that I made.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, take us through that. Like where where did you uh did you always want to go to seventh group, or were you hoping you'd uh go to 10th or 5th?
SPEAKER_00:No, no. So coming back in, you come in under the prior service assessment program, and you basically get to say, hey, here's where I want to go. And if there's a slot and they have the availability, and that group start major says, Hey, yeah, thumbs up, we'll we'll take them on. Um, that's where you go. And so folks like redid language that came in and they said, you know what, I want to go to 10th group. Let me go ahead and you know, learn Russian or German, and you know, coming from 20th group where they had Spanish. And in my case, you know, I came from 20th, we had Spanish, I'm from Florida, 7th group was in Florida. It it was a natural fit. Uh the accessions program is now much more streamlined. I know when I was in the Q course, guys were there 18 months or more. It was this insane, and then they had to, you know, convene this massive board of sergeant majors. And it's like, hey, if if a guy is a good guy, like why are we treating him different than a Q course graduate? Let's give him a PT test, make him ruck, have him, you know, sit down with the committee for the MOS that he's in and show that he's got proficiency and let him go to group.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like it's a body.
SPEAKER_01:Like, why and he's got rotations, he's got deployments, he's he's been around. Like it it's yeah, sometimes we make it.
SPEAKER_00:It should be fairly simple to find out a guy's reputation. If he's been in, hey, you're coming from you know this company in this group. Let me call the op sergeant. Hey, what's your thoughts? Or hey, I know somebody over. Over there because I went to the Q course with him. Hey, you know, Bobby, what's your thoughts on this guy? Oh, hey, good dude. Hey, appreciate it. Thanks. You know, 1-800 tab check works wonders. And so it my understanding is it's a more streamlined process. Now I think it took me eight to nine months. And you know, I came in as a fox and they'd never had anybody coming in as a fox and trying to figure that out. They're like, well, no, you should come back in as an 18 Charlie. Well, I haven't I haven't done that in a couple years, but sure, why not? Like, I'm hoping to, you know, do either job. And the demand is that they needed foxes. And so kind of behind the scenes, was able to talk to some folks that I knew that you know were committee members at the Fox course, sat in on a couple classes, and then they're like, Well, we don't know what to do with you. You're gonna sit through and audit the entire Fox course again, which was great. You know, the technology changes. It how great is it to sit in there? I'm not worried about a grade, I'm not worried about a project. I'm worried about just let me be the best fox that I can be. And I'm gonna sit in on this class, I'm gonna learn the things, and I'm gonna put in my time, but I don't have to stress on the weekends, I don't have to do all these other things. It it was beautiful. I loved it. Like it was learning for the sake of learning without any kind of you know pressure. Without the fire hose. Yeah. And it's like, well, I've already seen these things. Now we're just seeing it in a different way, a different lens with practical experience under my belt, utilizing the software systems or the methodologies. And so I I loved it. And sometimes, you know, knowledge for the sake of knowledge is is a great time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. For those that are are not uh of the culture, 18 Fox is an intelligence sergeant for the detachment. And the course is notoriously difficult. It's notoriously data heavy, analysis heavy, but by given the nature of the role, so it's it's uh a lot, a lot of work, not a lot of sleep, and uh that that tends to continue on when you're actually performing the role. So to every 18 Fox out there, you're seen, Bubba. I appreciate everything that you do, you will do in the future, and everything that uh you bring to the team because often, more often than not, your 18 Fox is also like the the you know the the the wrangler of the wayward boys. He is the by you know, oftentimes one of the most senior team members, and he's often the the lead wrangler of shenanigans. So yeah, it's uh it's a lot of work, man. But you're right. I would imagine being able to sit back and be relaxed and then gleam all that secondary knowledge that you probably didn't get from the first time go, but oh fuck, I can do this with Palantir now, or I can do this. Like, it's it's such a and it takes a different personality. Did you feel you were you were more inclined to be a Fox once you got there? Like, were you uh were you one of the guys that enjoyed the tech, that enjoyed the the analysis part, or was it something you're gonna do? I really did.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, as a as an 18 Fox, the way I looked at it was I'm driving the train as far as what missions we're going to do. Like, yes, the captain is making the decisions, yes, my team sergeant is is making the decision, but they're making the decision based on what I'm presenting them. And if, you know, at the end of the day, if on a deployment, if I could nest our missions and what our goals were within two levels up, very rarely did they say no. We we got the assets, we got aviation, we got the things we needed, we got approval for the mission deck. So by you know, looking two levels up and saying, this is what you know the SODIF wants to do, and this is kind of what the Siege of SODIF wants to do, but we're gonna nest at SODIF, and you know, that's gonna meet my company's intents. And then if I can articulate that and I can brief that, like, man, we're we're gonna get the assets and we're gonna get out the door, and me and the boys are gonna go party. And so that's what I loved about the 18 Fox. Like, yeah, you're doing long days, you're you're really data mining and digging, and and you're getting into that NAT's ass of information and and learning that target area. Well, that's how you mitigate risk. And if I dig as hard as I can and I put that work in on the front end, it is going to give us the best opportunity to be successful in our mission and to minimize any of our own casualties. And that was something I took very seriously, and that was something I was really passionate about. And, you know, being able to nerd out in that, like, so 85% of my time was nerding out, and then 15% of my time, I, you know, I gotta go and like put my kit on and go do the the stuff that you know an SF guy wants to do, which is a love-hate relationship, because you're like, yeah, I'm out the door, I'm doing the thing, and then you start getting shot at, and you're like, oh man, why do I do this?
SPEAKER_01:You know why did I pick this hornet's nest?
SPEAKER_00:There's an IED five feet away from me. Why? Why do I do this to myself?
SPEAKER_01:But this episode of Security Hall is brought to you by Dr. Mark Gordon and Millennium Health Store. If you've listened to this show, you know how seriously we take brain health, recovery, and long-term performance, especially for veterans and high performers. Dr. Mark Gordon is one of the leading experts in neuroendocrinology and traumatic brain injury. He's just released his new book, Peptides for Health, both the Medical Edition, Volume 1, and the Consumer Edition, Volume 1, are available right now. The book breaks down how peptide therapy supports brain health, hormonal balance, recovery, and resilience in a way that's practical and evidence-based. You can get 25% off the book by using code PTH25 at checkout, valid through March 15th. And for Dr. Gordon's proprietary health products, Security Health listeners can receive 10% off if they use the code phase2P. Click the link in the episode description to find out more and visit Millennium Health Store today.
SPEAKER_00:You know, then you get back and you know you're high-fiving each other and you know the bro hugs, and it's it's the highest highs and the lowest lows. And so it's it's super rewarding. And you know, for the the guys out there that you know understand the the 18 Fox course and the demands of that, I just want to say, you know, going through three years of law school, doing, you know, very well academically, I picked up a master's degree in addition to my my jurisdoctorate and you know crammed that in with extra cre extra you know classes within the same amount of time with a kid, all all the things. And and oh, and commuting two hours each way. And the 18 Fox course was still harder. Yes, it's shorter, but the 18 Fox course has a more rigorous academic requirement than law school, period. And you know, there's not a lot of folks out there that can can quantify that and say it, but I'm gonna tell you, it absolutely the 18 Fox course was was more demanding from an academic perspective than going to three years of law school. So anybody out there that's done the Fox course or you know knows a knucklehead on their team that is a Fox that they're like, I could do that. Guess what? You can get a master's, you can get your bachelor's, you can get, you know, a JD or or whatever degree you want, because that program is much harder academically and for your time management than any of these other academic programs.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, a hundred percent. And I'll I'll I'll echo that sentiment. I I was never a uh a full, a fully vetted Fox, but I know how to run Intel sync with uh my A Team Fox. I was a warrant officer on the team, and I will tell you, I would rather go through the through my master's and my undergraduate 10 times back to back than go back to the warrant officer course and have uh instructor Montanez as uh my lead warrant instructor. That's just the facts, folks. Trust me, like the the military, the military training methodology for how difficult it is prepares you for school. It does, 100%. Every military course you're you've been to is a fire hose. You you're gonna receive this data, you're gonna be held accountable for memorizing, retaining it, and be able to brief it back, be able to execute all the parameters precisely as they presented them, and then in 48 hours, or even some, in some cases 24 hours, be tested and then move on to the very next thing. And then you will have to do a culmination test that puts all those skills uh in a three-month-long course, and then you have to execute that in combat, and you have to continue doing that over and over and over again. Like you've done hard things. Going back to school is is very easy compared to that. Trust me. You all, all of you listening to this, I don't care what MOS, like you can achieve your educational goals. Just be willing to dream again, be willing to bet on yourself, man. We do hard things on a daily in the military, and then we forget. That's a that's a big thing.
SPEAKER_00:You know, kind of to to piggyback off that is you know, every sergeant major says or to caveat on that, let me stop my foot three times and you just start majored me. Yeah, you know, all the all the things. Uh, you know, for folks that are are still in uniform, the the CLEP program, do it. It is it's free. All right, you go online, you get a little like workbook, and you pay 30 to 50 bucks, and you study that for a week. You take an hour a day and you go through it and they're fairly basic classes, and you go and you take a clep test, you'll have those credits. Almost every college will take those clep credits, and then that's done. And why you know, yeah, you're playing Xbox, you're playing PlayStation, you're you're doing whatever, but man, invest in yourself just a little bit because that's not gonna cost you money or much time. And so it's one step ahead. And then, you know, if you want to dream big, so be it. It's done. It's it's one step closer to whatever your big dream is. And whether you know, the the military background is great, but you still for many, many jobs, you still need that educational component. And it's just that's a prereq. The HR has that you to get your foot in the door, you gotta have, you know, oftentimes a bachelor's degree. And if you can knock out a ton of that in advance, and then you'll get some extra credits through like your service time, you you know, a little pittance. Um, but knock out those claps. You can get, you know, most colleges will accept up to like 45 credits, and they're the basic core requirements, and so you're that much farther ahead. So, you know, if you're going in and whatever job you're doing, and you know, you're an enlisted Bubba, knock those out. And hey, you're doing three years in, four years in, knock that out. That's 45 credits that you can transfer, plus whatever you take in uniform, it's just it's almost no cost with your time or money. So don't be a knucklehead, do it.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And you know, I gotta ask you, man. Like you you make it into active duty. Now you're serving at the seventh group. When did you find yourself thinking that that maybe there's more to life? Because there's once you I have to imagine, once you get there, it it's like restarts your your excitement and your capacity to do this for another 20, 30 years.
SPEAKER_00:Uh my my body made the decision for me. Uh, you know, I started encountering some orthopedic issues and you know uh blew out my shoulder on a jump and you know, had a fractured glenoid, tore uh labrum, and you know, went and you know, fortunately they sent me to Andrews Institute down in Gulf Breeze and had you know a surgeon that is one of the best in the country at fixing those kind of injuries, and you know, he did a great job and like, hey, I can move my arm, I'm awesome. Um I went there as well. And I think that was six months, seven months out from an Afghanistan deployment. And so then it became hey, work with Thor three, let's let's push, push, push so that I can stay on a team, because that's there is no place I'd rather be on a deployment than on a team. And so worked, worked, work, and then you know, uh two, three months into the deployment, granted it was 2020, COVID was just hitting. We were dealing with some peace accords, we were doing a mission rehearsal, and I fractured my fibula. And so my my deployment was was done. The the silver lining of that is it it didn't hinder the team because we weren't doing combat operations. So me getting injured didn't, you know cause a you know a burden. And you know, went to Germany, got a surgery, came home, had to do some, you know, recovery, and uh had some healing issues as far as like the bone. And it was, I mean, it just like it looked like somebody taking a sledgehammer to uh you know a two by four. And so we got it all patched up, we got it fixed, and uh some issues with running and swelling, and it just became where like, hey, I I can't fast rope, I can't ruck, I can't wear kit, I can't, I can't do all the things that are important. Green Beret does. And it it was like, hey, I'm still young enough where I can I can do another path, or I could stay in and be an office guy for however many years. And you know, I the decision, you know, I felt was somewhat made for me by my body, and it was it was time to you know hang it up and not be like the fat green beret. And so uh you know, I went through a med board and and it ended my career, and that's okay. Um, I had an amazing run and I had some some great opportunities and some great adventures, you know, over the course of it, with that seven or eight months contract time, you know, I I totaled over 48 months of combat time between Iraq and Afghanistan. And, you know, what almost two years in Central America or like maybe 18 months, 22 months, something like that. But an amazing adventure. Got to go to different countries and train, train with different folks, different services, and loved it. It was great. And then it became okay, well, what do I do now? I need something that isn't going to abuse my body, you know. So it's like, well, I can't be law enforcement or that's pretty physically demanding. And if I can't do this job, well, I surely can't do that job. And so, you know, looking at what what I could do, and you know, like it kind of boiled down to I could be a dentist or I could be a lawyer. And, you know, I like to talk. And, you know, a dentist, you get your hands in somebody's mouth, they can't talk back, you can just tell them whatever stories you want. Um, but then trying to find the the funding of the pipeline, and I wasn't passionate about it, so I kind of joke about the dentist thing. Um, but as far as a job that could I could use a lot of the skills that I had gained um throughout my career, uh lawyer, definitely fit within there, having you know done a certain amount of human intelligence, you know, dealing with folks. So if you're doing mediations or taking a deposition, you kind of be like, I think they're lying to me. Let me probe that question a little more. Um, so that gives you a little added bonus as you know, somebody starting out in the career that maybe a 24, 25-year-old fresh law school grad may not have. Um, the ability to use logic and reasoning and and analysis, it's still relevant in like, well, you know, how do we calculate this case or what is our defense? How do we deal with the the human aspect of it? So I felt like law school would be a good choice. And then it became, well, at my age, how is the juice worth the squeeze? You know, do I really want to incur this mountain of student loan debt? And everybody thinks like, hey, lawyers make all this money. It's something like the average salary in Florida is like$83,000 a year for an attorney. Don't quote me on it, but if I remember some some numbers, um, you know, because you have state folks, you have everything, and yes, there are the the personal injury attorneys with Rolls-Royce's and the John Morgans of the world, but those are few and far between. And that's like in the industry, you know, I could be a plumber and I could own a massive multi-state plumbing operation and be a billionaire. But most plumbers aren't billionaires. So most lawyers have a fair living wage, but the downside to it is they have crippling debt. Because they've got undergrad and they've got you know law school. And I went to the University of Miami for law school and it's$70,000 a year. It's not cheap. Which brings me to how I, you know, made it the juice worth the squeeze. You know, through the VA, you know, everybody knows about post-9-11 GI Bill, which you know covers a lot for certain things. I came out with service connected disabilities, which entitled me to be eligible for chapter 31, Veterans Rehabilitation and Employability. And with that, you know, I'll I'll the number one thing is it's not an education program, it is an employment program. Bingo. Bingo, right? I needed training to become an attorney. My goal was to be an attorney. And, you know, I'll kind of dig into some of my do's and don'ts that I learned along the way. And I I, you know, hope it helps at least one person down the road. But I was able to get them to pay for my tuition, which was, you know, approximately$70,000 a year. Because I still had a certain amount of post-9-11 GI bill remaining. I got my BAH, you know, E5 with dependence for the locality. It's my end. There, it's a it's a high BAH, high cost of living area. What else? Oh, you get a stipend for your books uh or required materials at the school bookstore and like$50 a month at the bookstore that you can use for like pens and paper. Uh, if you need a computer or a printer, you have to put in the request sheet and you get it. And it's based off the requirements for the um program. So you're not going to get you know a MacBook unless you're in a program that specifically says you need a MacBook.
SPEAKER_01:I will interject with this because I have I have um I have been able to successfully get production quality MacBook Pro because the retina display, if you suffer from migraines and blue screen issues, the MacBook Pro with its retina display minimizes the blue light. And if that's a disability that you have, you connect it to the disability. You gotta know the game, people, and your Volk Rehab Counselor doesn't work for you, they work for the VA. So you have to become your own detachment uh warrant officer or A Team Fox. Print out the entire chapter 31 guide. rule book and then highlight it section by section because I don't know if were you tracking they also pay for your internet?
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_00:And like I read through, you know, the the newest version I believe is the M28C manual. And I have read through it front to back and I have used it to my advantage. In fact, I filed for transportation expense from day one because I because you know I live more than 50 miles away. And it said normal commuting distance is 50 miles. They denied it, right? They they are going to deny everything. And so instead of doing like a higher level review, I said, you know what, we're going to send it to the BVA, the Board of Veteran Appeals. And I wrote a brief. And so it was a great exercise for my first semester of law school be like, I'm going to be a lawyer. Let me write this legal brief like I know what I'm doing. About two months ago they they finally just so two almost two and a half years it took for it to get through the system and they awarded me my appeal for all my transportation at you know the VA rate of 41.5 cents a mile. So I've been keeping spreadsheets. And so I sent that into my VRC and trying to they're like we we don't know what to do with this. And I was like well here's the award letter from the appeal. We have to figure it out. Let's work together. And like you said they don't work for you and sometimes they just don't work at all.
SPEAKER_01:Dude that's that's been one of the biggest problems I have to I have to stress to you there are good people in the system. My current counselor holy cow I've been through four been and some of them try to play games and that that's the that's the thing that that kind of kills me because you're already enrolled in a program and you're waiting for that authorization and they'll flip a counselor and be like, oh you have to resubmit the entire program. Nope. I'm going to forward you everything I sent to the first counselor and it's already been signed and approved. You have to advocate for yourself and at first I didn't want to because I wanted to believe that this system was upright and in good standing and they wanted to take care of you. Unfortunately that's not the case. Unfortunately they hire people that don't want to answer their emails, that don't want to answer their phone calls, that want to kick the can down the road to that one available appointment that you have that gets scheduled four months down the road and they'll find ways to kick that appointment further down the road but you have to be willing to call their boss. You have to be willing to submit a formal complaint and then eventually you will find a good person. Like I said I have an amazing vocational rehab counselor right now. She is in constant communication she like I file my stuff ahead of time. I signed up for all of my semesters already to finish out my master's program. And now I have somebody that knows and they're tracking my progress 100% before that I would log in to the meeting and the person didn't know who I was where I was at and would constantly try to get me to resubmit information that was sent already that was already in the system. And that's unfortunate but don't give up this is your program you earn these right these benefits it's your program you just have to be strong enough smart enough and willing to read through the stuff and highlight it and be a detective and be your own advocate when you look at the the amount of time that you have to spend versus the reward it's worth right like I I'm sorry my time is it's not worth you know$5,000 an hour and we could easily say that's what I was getting based on the the work that I was doing.
SPEAKER_00:And you know you're saying about the the appointments getting pushed. So for three years I never got an annual review requesting it and like CCing the RO which is their their regional office basically their supervisor supervisor. I submitted congressionals and they would just do the bare like they would basically thumb their nose up at even a congressional or their supervisor. But at the end of the day the tuition was always paid.
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SPEAKER_00:And I stayed in in my program and I was fortunate I went to University of Miami and I I they really put their money where their mouth is when it comes to supporting veterans and the military and I was very pleasantly surprised you know you always hear about academics that are anti-military and anti-this and you know I went in there and even if we didn't share the same point of view I was treated with with respect and dignity in the same way that I treated you know everybody there. But I was really surprised at the amount of money effort and time that University of Miami puts towards veterans. It's a you know it's a private school and not every school is going to be like that. And I started at a different school for my first year because it was geographically closer and it was absolutely not the right fit. And I said you know we transferred to Miami farther longer commute uh but much much better fit and I I absolutely I'm a Florida state guy. I went undergrad to Florida State uh my wife went to Florida State that's where we met like we are a Florida State household so for me to go to Miami like that that hurt my soul just a little bit um but I can say now like when it comes to law school I'm a proud cane. Nice. Hey but I still support but I'm still a Florida State fan.
SPEAKER_01:I'm ASU all the way ASU. The the other connection too is the right school and the right veteran service organization within that school or their their veteran service office that's the thing you have to do you really have to work with these people. They want you to succeed they're the the other link to making sure that your tuition is paid that you're you know you're you're you're properly signed up for your classes. That's the other part. So if you're able to go to school in person stop by make a connection with these people. If you're virtual like me you can still have a connection shout out to you Trudy I've been in school now since 2023 and there isn't a single single semester where I haven't been like oh shit I got to fill this out and it's like constantly she's like reminding me what needs to get sent reminding me and congratulating with the successful accomplishment of an undergraduate and and being there not only to facilitate the workarounds and the stressful situations with the V uh vocational rehab program but to be there to to cheer you on man. These people care at the school you may not align and and I get it every I hear just a lot of stories from the same from veterans are in school right now. It's a very different climate. It is you just have to accept it. But the individuals be willing to look at the individuals who are in those offices as human beings that at the end of the day want to see you graduate. They want to see you move on. So you know don't don't wear your uh make America great hat to campus and just be willing to invest in and some uh some personal you know professional equity and with these individuals and just talk like a normal human being get to know them because they truly are there to help you. And sometimes that vocational rehab peace you know let them fight the battle for you. Submit all the stuff let them be the ones that ping them for the issues because it makes it so much easier when you do all the work you hand it over to your veteran representative at the school and then they take the fight to that veteran uh to the Volk rehab counselor and then you do everything you need don't have to worry about it.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely um you know just be a good human being it's it it it literally just boils down to that be a good dude and treat people with dignity and respect. And you you can be passionate about your own point of view and be compassionate towards others and everybody's viewpoint is shaped by their own experiences and their experiences aren't mine and mine aren't theirs. And so we don't have to they see things the same we don't have to have the same politics or the same values even like but we can still be respectful. And you'll never as a veteran you may never know who an unknown friend is and I mean I had an assistant dean and you know by the outward appearance and everything I was like ooh they are not going to be pro-veteran and they were the biggest ally on that campus. They grew up in an Air Force family and so looks can be deceiving and I was wrong and I'll own up to it and they were an absolute amazing ally and asset to every veteran in that school and love them for it. So you never know who you're going you know to to encounter and who's who's going to help you out along the way and plenty of people they want you to be successful. You know it reflects on the school as well. You know veterans tend to have a much higher graduation rate participation rate they bring something you know everybody wants to talk about diversity. Well hey that's the metrics of diversity you're bringing different experiences to the classroom which are going to broaden everybody's understanding of material. And so it's great like a lot of schools truly do want veterans there. But you got to do the work and you got to be able to pay the bill and you know some of these VA programs are an amazing way to pay the bill so for me chapter 31 was the absolute right fit. And you know if I go through all the math and numbers it's more money than I can expect to probably make in four or five years as an attorney for the value that I I got from this program for three years.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah that uh that seems like a long time but three years to become an attorney that that must have gone by fast now that you think about it.
SPEAKER_00:I mean think about it the older we get you know uh what is it it's like time dilation days are long years are short. Yes and you got everything going on in life and it it it seemed like you know yesterday we were just starting the program and like when you have kids it seems like yesterday your child was born and then you're like oh wow they're you know almost a an adult and so it goes faster than we realize and the older we get the faster it seems to go. And so three years yeah it's long but it's also fast.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So what's life now? You're what's it like now being being actual in the profession that you you started dreaming while you were still in like what are you are are you are you over the honeymoon phase or is it still like holy shit like I'm a little Yeah no over over the honeymoon you know phase uh you know I I'll tell people you know I I pretend to be an attorney and it's you know it's like you know practicing law because you're still trying to learn it out.
SPEAKER_00:And even folks within very like specialized fields because law changes and you know the the cases will redefine a certain aspect and so you're constantly researching and looking things up. And so it is it is an ever-evolving field that you have to stay current on and so you know if anybody's ever looking for an attorney and it's somebody that does like 15 different areas of law unless you are in a very very small town and that's the only attorney I recommend you find somebody who handles what you need because it I mean if if you get a DUI you probably don't want somebody that does like mergers and acquisitions being your attorney. Yes he's an attorney and they can go to court but they don't know anything about criminal law. You know it's the same you know for family law and like I don't I don't want a personal injury attorney handling my divorce. And so find find the right tool for the job. And if it's somebody that does like five different areas or more that that's not the right tool. They are the tool they're a tool what area are you specializing in uh so I've actually just had a recent change. Uh it was not the right fit for me and as you know I I know what right looks like for me to develop and everything else and I know where my my moral compass is and I know you know what where I want to be and where I want to grow and I I started at a place and I had expectations that it would be the right fit for a while and it was not and time to move on and before you know as as I heard as a a you know a young 18 Charlie you know your reputation walks in the door before you ever will and I didn't want my professional reputation to be shaped in a similar way by the people that you know I worked with and as I was doing networking events it was like oh you work for so and so oh okay and you're like oh well that's a good indicator and then you know it's kind of a a perfect storm of of things you know my family needs for you know professional development uh the area I was in so uh I am a pretend attorney right now uh we're you know wait until about middle of this month maybe next week and we'll kind of start I've got some feelers out and uh undoubtedly jobs happen right everybody needs brand new you're the lowest you're the private right so in the in the org structure I am the private and there is a always a need for privates I am a private with this really strong resume and so it's more a matter of finding the right fit than a fit yes um so that's where I'm at professionally I I still plan to be an attorney uh we're going going down that road but where I started is not where I will finish the journey fair enough constantly evolving um and I think that's a that's a lesson for all of us to take from this man like am I going to continue down the ri the the the path that I'm on for this PhD at the moment yes but can I pivot?
SPEAKER_01:Can I find something else? Am I open? Be open to change be open to the possibility that the best path is going to unfold and you're gonna be right where you need to be one of the biggest things that I'm taking into or bringing into my life for 2026 it's embrace change man. Be willing to let go of things be willing to say goodbye. Be willing to close the door be willing to say that the next chapter the next path is going to lead to more prosperity to greater opportunities. We tend to think that we have to hold on to so much in our lives. Maybe the key to happiness is letting go. Maybe the key to your happiness is willing to say I'm gonna bet on myself and I'm gonna go back to school. I'm going to find my next great profession with a master's degree or an undergraduate. But you have to do that. I can't do it for you. Craig can't do it for you. We're just simply here to provide some insight into a program that has been extremely rewarding for both of us. I just want you to make the best decision and as you move forward throughout this year, be willing to bet on yourself. Be willing to say it's not about how much I can take on and improve and try to make another team more successful. Be willing to bet on you. Because at the end of the day, even though you have an entire network of people that love you and are cheering you on you've got the grand digital team room that we have built as veterans and members of the Warrior tribe, it's you and you have to look out for yourself. So be willing to dream again, be willing to succeed again and be willing to dare to do something big. Craig I can't thank you enough for being here if people want to reach out and ask you questions personally about your journey and how they can get you know get involved in Miami to become the next great attorney where can they reach you?
SPEAKER_00:Email is is one way uh I mean I'm not really active on you know I'm I'm I'm a receiver on social media you know I don't I don't post I don't yeah that's it you know like you know shit posting memes with with friends is yes you know kind of where I'm I'm at on my uh social media journey of life um but yeah email uh if anybody's got questions hit me up um really like you know just to kind of cap it that chapter 31 is an amazing resource for you know our veterans and and the threshold to gaining entitlement for it is fairly low and what you can get out of it is amazing but you have to be prepared you have to uh negate the no because your VA folks will want to tell you no and you have to give them a no to their reason before they ever bring it. So for me going in at you know hey I want to go into the legal field well more likely than not they would say you could be a paralegal because that's the lowest cost training option. Well if you go into like ONET and the resources that they are required to use um which is like the Bureau of Labor Statistics, um a few other spots, uh Bureau of Labor Statistics Occupational Requirements survey I believe and it it will say hey this is a profession. It's got a code and these are the requirements. So a paralegal is required to lift 50 pounds um basically like you know case boxes and hey I've got service connected disabilities for my back and you know it geez that could aggravate an existing condition. So that's not a good fit for me. And you or you could be a bailiff oh because of my orthopedic issues uh that's not a good fit for me and so in my initial conversation I was able to basically shut those things down before they tried to run that pathway. Additionally I had already looked up what the the outlook was for that profession within my area and using you know the federal resources as well as like job postings for entry level attorneys, okay hey this this field is going to grow almost 20% within the next 10 years. Is what's forecasted. So that's a great thing to say, hey, the goal is to get me employed and keep me employed. And if the field is growing, well, there's employment. Um, if I can negate your no before you even hit me with it, now we have to go down the pathway that I want to go. And so you have to go into this prepared and have your ducks in a row. And like, you know, if you want to go through law school under chapter 31, the best way to do that is have already taken your LSAT exam and to be accepted at a school because it makes it much more likely that, okay, well, you've been accepted, you can get into school. This is this is achievable for you. And so do the legwork, be ready, be prepared, because that that amount of time you take to read M28C and the policies and to understand what they can and cannot do, and to understand what tools and resources they have to use to make a decision, the better prepared you are to get your end state. And hey, if that takes 40 hours of work over the course of two months, uh you know they were paying$70,000 a year in tuition. That's a hell of a return on my time investment. So do the work, get the benefits that you've earned, and go forward.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely, man. It's uh it's a great opportunity. Please, please seize that and they'll make it easier for you. If you need info for it, go to episode description. You'll see a link right down there, uh, probably to a blog post and one to uh uh website resource. Because hey, 2026 will be doing more writing. So I want you to read it, enjoy it. Yeah, just something I'll do for you. Just for you out there listening. Just do me a favor, go ahead and pause. You know, spiel, episode's over already. It's just me rambling. Click those links, head on over to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Castos, Castbox, wherever you listen to podcasts, and give me a five-star rating, or maybe four, four and a half. I know sometimes I don't hit it. I sometimes it's just like a mid-episode, but this one's fire, folks. So help me out. Promote it in the algorithm, share it with your friends. I appreciate it. I know Craig will appreciate it. But I appreciate you for listening and taking the time to click those links. I know Craig does. Uh, so please hit him up. His email's in there. Don't send nudes. Don't send nudes or send them to me. I don't want those either. But if you need resources and need help, you know where to go. Setcallpodcast at gmail.com. Make the editor do that. There you go. Put it a little twinkle or make it sparkle so it's you know appealing to the eye. I'll appreciate it. Thank y'all for tuning in, Craig. Thank you for being here, brother. And thank you for what you're doing, living to succeed again. And to all of you listening and downloading, I appreciate you. Thank you. But please, most importantly, take care of each other. We'll see y'all next time. Till then, take care.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks, Chief.
