Security Halt!

Healing Beyond The Beret

• Deny Caballero • Season 8 • Episode 395

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What happens when a Green Beret’s toughest battle begins after war?

 In Episode 395 of the Security Halt! Podcast, Host Deny Caballero sits down with Matthew Butler — former Green Beret, author, and advocate — to discuss how psychedelic medicine and self-awareness helped him face PTSD, addiction, and trauma that nearly took his life.

This episode explores the hidden wounds of war, the growing science behind plant medicine for mental health, and the courage it takes to truly heal.

 👉 Follow, like, and subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts for more conversations on resilience, mental health, leadership, and growth.

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 Chapters:
 00:00 – A Green Beret’s Journey to Healing
  03:25 – The Hidden Cost of Trauma and Service
  09:10 – Discovering Plant Medicine
  16:48 – Facing the Past to Heal the Future
  23:05 – Integration, Growth, and Recovery
  29:32 – Helping Other Veterans Heal
  37:44 – From Combat to Consciousness
  45:12 – The Mission Continues

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 Connect with Matthew Today!

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/butler18a/

Instagram: @awakegreenberet
 Websites:

https://www.seidrhealing.org/

https://www.awakegreenberet.com/

 Get his book today! Amazon: From Green Beret to Shamanism, On Man’s Journey to Heal

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Produced by Security Halt Media

SPEAKER_02:

Our mentality was don't say anything, you'll lose your security clearance, you'll be on the fucking B-beam, suck it up, you know, rub dirt in it, and take a motion and move on, or drink it away. None of those helped us in in any way.

SPEAKER_01:

What led you to find and look at these medicines, which by and large have only become popular and talked about positively in the last few years. Before that, these medicines were oftentimes labeled as things that would make you lose your mind. Poison, dangerous drugs.

SPEAKER_02:

Just take a step back, look at the scientific evidence, and just know that it's probably not what you're thinking, but it's exactly what you need.

SPEAKER_01:

Matthew Butler, welcome to Security Hub Podcast, brother. Thanks for having me, Danny. I appreciate it. Yeah, like uh, you know, we we always have uh try to have a little icebreaker before we start off. And um I uh sometimes kick myself in the ass because I'm like, man, I wish I would have recorded just a little bit of that conversation. But now the audience gets a different version of it. Um you know, I I alluded to the fact that more often than not, people see the resume, they see the beret, they see the team blacks, and what they want to focus on is you know some of the worst moments of your life, and only that, only that. Um, and and it's become this idea that the greatest aspect of GWAT are these stories of valor of Silver Star recipients, Medal of Honor recipients. But there's more to us. There's absolutely more to us. And when I like to capture the individuals such as yourself that are back in the fight, but in a different way. Uh psychedelic medicine is now at the forefront of everybody's uh uh aperture. Everybody, whether it's a healer, whether it's somebody that's suffering, and now more than ever, we need to be able to tap into our network of great green berets who are in this fight. So today, Matthew, I want to dive into your book, but more importantly, the journey to let you to writing it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me. Um it's an honor to be here. I appreciate what you're saying because um yeah, uh, you know, I I I can think of uh a significant number of uh brothers in the regiment who are doing this work and um who are who are doing our best to bring these modalities to the forefront. Um and so yeah, I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it and talk about the book.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely, man. So take us back, man. Take I I always say that behind somebody that's now trying to heal others, there's a story of deep pain and trauma that led them to finding this uh this way out. Um so if you would, man, just take it, take us all the way back. Like what led you to this?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, um, you know, I think it was um again, another another one of us that was talking about it, and I think it was uh Jeff Dartia uh that I was watching something he was saying, and he was talking about how, you know, yeah, we all have you know PTS or PTSD or um operator syndrome or moral injury, right? And he was saying, but what he's seen and what he's begun to understand, which I totally concur with, is that for most of us, I think that our our trauma started way before. Um it started back in our childhood. And that's you know, that's not a that's not a slight, that's not a criticism of, you know, for anybody and every how anybody grew up or their parents. I think it's actually just more um I guess co-op cooperating the idea. Like there's an old book that's from the 90s. Most people in Regiment hate the book. It's called Um The Company They Keep. It was written by a PhD, I think she was an anthropologist from Harvard. That yeah. I think it's actually one of the best books. Um I think that um people that don't like it find fault with it because it's too raw, too honest. Yeah, yeah. Because it she looks, you know, she she was given unrestricted access to the team rooms and she saw everything that happened and she told it like it is. But any case, in her book, she talks about how one of the characteristics of uh of a Green Beret is having grown up in a really challenging home life environment. And so I I think that that's really what we're all seeing and saying now is is what she was saying it, but in a different way, and that like, yeah, a lot of us grew up in such challenging, difficult circumstances that, well, it just kind of felt natural to go into the most challenging, difficult circumstances because it feels familiar. And so the same thing that sort of in my mind defines us, drove us to those units and those and those uh teams and things like that is also now the same thing that has brought us full circle and and time to heal it. Because I think it's we have to look at it from when we do plant medicine, we're not just treating one episodic thing, we're treating the whole person, which in some respects, uh, you know, if we're gonna get weird, um, I was just having a conversation with a guy that uh served most of his career in Ranger Regiment last night. I used to work for him in um in contracting before I started doing this full-time. And he read the book, he called me, needed to talk, and he he says, you know, I would have never believed in ancestral trauma until I read your book. And then all of a sudden I had words to put to what I was experiencing in my family, saying, like, I don't know where this comes from. It's not from me, but I feel it and I'm I'm living it, and I don't, you know, the only answer I got is that I can see where there was a pattern in my parents and my grandparents going back, and it's like now I understand. And so, yeah, like it's it's not all just about what we experienced in Afghanistan.

SPEAKER_01:

No, absolutely. And and the thing is, it sounds uh woo-woo, but it's it's been proven, scientifically proven. If you studied uh Bessel Vanderkook's work, if you read uh The Body Keeps a Score, we know that trauma is locked in DNA. If you grow up in a chaotic environment and you don't have a post-traumatic arc, you don't leave that environment, and you continue to have, you know, bring children to this world in the same environment, those trauma responses stay locked in that genetic code. It stays with you as part of your moral fiber. That's why this work, the deep work of getting better, of seeking help is so important. Yeah. Not just for you, it's for your children. Uh so it it's it's and you're right, in in this endeavor, through Security Hall, every Green Beret, Navy SEAL, for the most part, Ranger Regiment guy too, and and and infantry guy, just a lot of the veterans I've talked to on this on this program, they all share stories that are very similar. Yeah. And having done the work, having gone to school and studied, I mean, it's the perfect, it's the perfect way to have you know the lived experience and and collect it and be able to say, like you're the audience member at home or in their car listening, you're not alone. This is you know, it's a proven formula to find high achievers. Yeah. To go after individuals that have gone through so much.

SPEAKER_02:

True. Yeah. Yeah, it's that it's absolutely accurate. And um, yeah, I appreciate you saying, you know, it sounds woo-hoo. And I appreciate you even mentioning uh Vander Besselkock in his book, The Body Keeps the Score. Like I I talk about that book all the time. Um that that like I recommend everybody that's listening to this get a copy of that book if you doubt this. Um, The Science is Out There.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And the thing that really connects it is he did some of his earliest work with veterans. What led him to understand the stress reaction, the trauma response, uh, how trauma's locked into the body came from studying uh Vietnam veterans. Like that's the crazy part. Like it's we are we are the number one community for doctors and scientists that want to understand, that want to heal uh these issues in the greater community by studying us. Um it's important to understand that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I agree. And and uh there's another wonderful connection too. Like um, you know, if we look back at the hippie culture of the you know, the late 60s, 70s, um, and I talked about this in the book. I mean, I was growing I grew up in a really conservative place, uh, you know, a conservative state, a small town of 500, hardcore, you know, um, sort of Christian, you know, hardcore hard right Christian views. And, you know, yeah, like I remember being, you know, driving down Salt Lake City and and like my parents saying something like, oh, that dirty hippie or somebody, it's somebody on the corner, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So so I grew up in that context with, you know, hippie culture sort of like in my periphery. But what I didn't understand until this movement, until my my experience, um, is that um, yeah, they those veterans were gathering and and trying to heal themselves again using plant medicine. I don't think that they were so deep into like, say, ayahuasca or psilocybin as much as cannabis, but there's one of my favorite stories is one of the dudes who went off to that um kind of into that culture, they realized they didn't have quality seed, volunteered, he volunteered to go to Pakistan, into the Hindu Kush to get seed, smuggle it back into Northern California for them to heal. And oh, by the way, he was a Green Beret. Yeah. I I apologize. Yeah, I apologize. It didn't really answer the question, but um, I was more or less just commenting on your accuracy. But uh, I guess for me, you know, my my childhood wasn't horrific. It was really good. My parents were amazing, but you know, I was adopted. And and and in one of my first ayahuasca ceremonies, I saw this chain of unbroken trauma. Like I like it took me way, way, way back. And then I it was like this serpent, I describe it as like a serpentine line of men, and I could like almost zoom past them with my hand like this, you know. And it went from this very early ancestor that I learned his name was J, J. E, but pronounced J, all the way to my my maternal grandfather, who was a World War II vet. And I could understand how my grandfather, who was ill-equipped to deal with his PTSD, because he he was in the Pacific and he saw a lot of fighting, and you know, he but he he, you know, typical vet, wouldn't talk about it, didn't want to talk about it, um, and he just swallowed it. But that created an environment in our home where swallowing your emotions was the was the standard. And so then I'm four years old and learning that I'm adopted, and that was like one of two conversations I had in my lifetime about it.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_02:

So as a four-year-old, I'm sitting here trying to navigate the idea that somebody out there didn't love me enough to keep me. I had weird fantasies about maybe my parents were like aliens or robots or something. If I wasn't a perfect kid, like somebody else was gonna come and take me again. Like I built up all this trauma around my own identity, my own self-worth. And again, I know that there's a lot more, you know, uh horrendous things out there, you know, people who people in our regiment who've suffered serious child abuse, sexual abuse, things like that. And so I I don't wish to compare myself, but that was just my path. And and so, you know, I had a lot of repressed emotions. I think looking back, I also realized that a lot of my, you know, go to going to special operations, going to ranger school, going to a tier one unit, um, was me kind of carrying a chip on my shoulder, saying, like, okay, like what what else do you got? Like, I'm I'm used to being kicked, you know, in the mouth, you know, by life. Like, this is nothing new. Like, let's go, right? Um, so yeah, um, that was kind of the context. Then I wind up in you know, special operations uh by 98, 99. Um, I was in I was in uh 19th group actually uh in 98. I was on active duty by 99. I was on our team by 2000, 2001 happens. So I spent the next you know 17 years going back and forth, obviously. Um I really appreciate again like the fact that we we don't overly emphasize on this podcast about Valor events because I have none. I I know that there's a little bit of uh Snow and Valor running through the community, uh, you know, a little bit there on that this past year. And I'll I'll be the first to go on record and say, yeah, I was a staff weenie. You know, I got promoted out of the teams and um spent a lot of time making PowerPoint slides. Um, but you know, I was still over there, we still did missions, I still had my moments, I still had my you know, close calls in the early because I was I went over as a I had I think um one deployment to Iraq as a captain and then uh another deployment uh as a major or with actually 75th Ranger Regiment as a tab. Oh wow yeah, like when people hear that, like I I got attached to 75th Ranger Regiment as a major, so I was already, you know, after my team time, and that was a weird experience. But yeah, I so it wasn't necessarily the the war I was trying to heal, but what you know, I guess what I would say is like I think that what happens to us is we take that early childhood, we come into the you know, the the teams, the regiment, whatever, we do our thing, and then we add those other straws, and and it's sort of the straw that breaks the camel's back. And so I think the straw gets the emphasis when it's really that bale of straw that's been on the camel's back the whole time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And so that was my we're always looking for that one key, key moment where everything fell apart. You got blown up by an RPG. Reality is you're carrying a fucking 500-pound rucksack of life, and all it takes is that one failed inbrief or outbrief, or somebody tears into you, or you don't meet the standard, you fail a school, a catastrophic event like a divorce, it can send you spiraling. It's not about the one thing. We have to understand we're human beings with decades of experience, decades of pain, issues. This episode is brought to you by Pure Liberty Labs. Quality supplements designed to elevate your health and performance. Check out their full line of quality supplements, whether you're looking for whey protein, pre-workout, creatine, or super greens drink. Pure Liberty Labs has you covered. Use my code security hall10 at checkout today. Your worst day, your worst moment is your worst day, your worst moment. There's no comparing it, but you have to understand that you are a complete human being that encompasses the entire lived experience that you have been going through your entire life. Plus your answer, if you don't take an yes, and if you don't take a knee and take a security hole and assess your life at some point, it can lead to catastrophic situations. It doesn't have to be the one combat situation that does it for you.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and you know, I talk about this in the book. I remember this really, really significant marked moment in my career. Um, and I'll I'll use his name out of respect. I'll I'll say it. It was um Command Sergeant Major Um Thetford. He was the um senior enlisted advisor in JSOC. And I remember we had an all-hands call. We gathered in the hangar, you know, they have a little stage that they build in the hangar for these events, but they built the stage and everybody was there, the whole command. And it was it was a gut check moment where here's the command sergeant major of JSOC saying, Hey, I just want you all to know that I'm struggling with my mental health. That was in like maybe 2010, 2011-ish. I I was blown away, right? Like, because yeah, because like our culture, in addition to creating all that extra weight in a rucksack, we if we're gonna be honest, we don't we didn't have the greatest um environment or skill set to actually do what was best in the best interest of ourselves and the best unit interest of the units. And that means healing because our mentality was I'll give you three examples. Our mentality was don't say anything, you'll lose your security clearance, you'll be on the fucking B team. Um, or it was suck it up, you know, rub dirt in it, and take a motion and move on, or you're gonna be, you know, your sh your your your ruck will be in the hall. Or drink it away. And those none of those helped us in in any way. Um and so to hear a senior command, you know, the senior enlisted advisor in a tier one unit look a you know a thousand or more people in the eye and say, Hey, I just want you all to know that my mental health is not well and I'm taking positive steps to fix it, and you should too, was was a was a profound moment for me.

SPEAKER_01:

That's yeah, it it's leaders like that that with that little bit of vulnerability are able to help everybody else, even if it's not at that moment, it gives everybody else the ability to say, well, if that guy can stand up and say that, I can do the same. Exactly. Your your vulnerability gives others the strength to stand up and say, All right, I'm a human being. We're meant to break. I need to get help. And I've had it the other way around. I've had really bad leaders. I I won't say their names, very influential with uh the career that demands respect and awe from all subordinates. The guy that has every key position, you luck, you look up to him, but all it takes is him walking into a battalion meeting and talk poorly about a treatment center or a modality, and it turns everybody else off. Yeah. And that's not what we need. We need individuals that can say, you're important enough to get paid, or you're important enough to have every resource given to you in combat. You're important enough to be fielded the top of the line equipment, you're important enough to get sent to the best schools to become the best leader and the best special operator out there. Well, you're important enough to get help. And it's part of the job. It's part and parcel to everything that you signed up for. And that's what we need.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, you you bring up you you really, to me, what you're saying and is something that I bought into, I think, really early. Like even before I would have to say that like even before I graduated from the Q course, I bought into it. In fact, I used to hang it in the team room and you know, I mean I get it. I was the officer, I was the the commander, and so the the the NCOs like to bust my balls a little bit. But I would hang up the soft imperatives, right? And then they would take them down and I'd have to put them up again. Yeah. But I really I really bought into those. I bought into the soft imperatives and humans over hardware man. Like that's that's what it is. And I believe that. And the other thing that um I think that you're really highlighting for me too in a way is that frankly like some of these conversations with with our colleagues, our brothers, they go over like you said, they go over like a you know like a lead balloon. It's a bunch of you know girls in yoga pants and dreadlocks and you know and the thing is is I just want to kind of sometimes and maybe this is my opportunity to do it kind of like just put my hands on my on their shoulders and say brother like you were selected amongst you know the entire army because of your superior intellect and your ability to think through problems. Like just take a step back apply those same soft elements that made you a soft operator to this problem set look at the scientific evidence and and just know that it it's it's probably not what you're thinking but it's it's actually um exactly what you need.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely man um you know I I want to go back and and focus on the journey leading up to writing the book. Take us through that like what led you to find and look at these medicines which by and large have only become popular and positive and talked about positively in in the last few years. Before that, I mean we grew up in in the the same around the same time frame the Dare the Dare generation these medicines were oftentimes labeled as you know things that would make you lose your mind poison dangerous drugs.

SPEAKER_02:

100% I mean I grew up again I grew up in a you know in Utah so I grew up in a a Mormon home um I might have smoked a little bit of cannabis like you know a half a dozen times in my lifetime and even that was like I was so poor it was only if my friends were willing to share a little you know um so it it wasn't a big thing. It was really stigmatized for my my upbringing and then I went right into you know uh the the the military and I wasn't about to risk my career over something like that. So really like yeah I was probably I was almost 50 by the time I began to approach this and and so what really happened is like you said you know there was this this rock bottom catalyst moment where my father had me arrested for um uh uh destruction of property the the final charges were destruction of property during a domestic disturbance um and so you know I have so much love and respect for my father because he was kind of at a lose-lose crossroads it's either like I either watched my son continue to self-destruct and lose him or I call the cops on him and try to get him help and lose him. There you know there was like a 1% chance or less that I was going to come out of that. And and I was in that camp of like I will never speak to that man again when when that happened. But so but it worked. I went into that jail cell and um you know all I had was my thoughts and all I could and and the only realizations I could come to was number one I'm lying to me first and foremost about my severity of alcohol use and drug use and my my PTSD like I've I'd been diagnosed in 2011. This event happened in 2018 and I don't like even though it was in my records and I was like okay sure I mean that's what you know the psychologists think but I don't believe it. I'm not I'm really not that you know bad off. And so I I finally got honest and said yeah like you know what like I got a problem. And then this the second and and and frankly that was like the first arrest but it was not the first time with with law. I mean I'd been I've been having run-ins with the law for over three years and and the yeah like I I think I have I like 12 different restraining orders not that that's my badge of honor but um yeah like the cops were being called to my home constantly um one time we had a SWAT team there it was it was pretty it was pretty gnarly um and I I could I could do the math right like I could see that the the space in between iterations was getting closer and closer and the intensity of iterations was getting higher and higher so I was like you know eventually this is going to end really really badly for somebody um me and others and so in that jail cell is like where it really got real where I was like yeah like this is really going down a dark path and I need to do something different and then the second thing that I had a realization of is I was just like you know I'm on this I'm on this damn hamster wheel I keep I keep going to group I keep going to therapy I keep going to AA I keep taking the antidepressants I keep you know all the things that the VA and the experts and everybody tells me but somehow I keep going downhill like like at what point do I need to like like admit that this is just not working? Like like like okay like how much more evidence do you do you need you're sitting in a jail cell for crying out loud how much more evidence do you need that this the things you're doing just don't work so I made this promise to myself that I was going to solve this like like it was honest to goodness good old fashioned operator grit where I was like the moment I get out of here I start a new mission like I'm on a mission to figure this out I had no idea about plant medicine none all I knew is like I I'm gonna fix me because no one else is gonna do it. And that's another important point I make about the book in the book. I had another realization one time coming out of a therapy session where I realized that how suicidal I was and the moment I walked out of my therapist's office was the last time he was going to think about me and my problems until I walked back into his office in a week. And I knew I had to become my own mental health provider my own primary care physician because not only do I have more invested in in in me than anybody else but I know the patient better than anybody else and it was like okay this is I'm gonna own this meaning me. I'm gonna own my physical mental welfare period I'm gonna figure this out and so I started I just started googling how to cure PTSD and and if you do it like I you know I I encourage anybody to try this you're gonna get a summary like an AI summary that basically says we can offer you some some suggestions that help you deal with the you know with the um symptoms uh and help you to manage it and that's about the best that you can get that's sort of the summary that Google provides but anyway I kept going and going and going and and somehow I got led to YouTube videos of veterans coming out of ayahuasca retreats down in Peru. And I remember this one where I watched this dude and like the before and after his before was you know like I could so identify with him. Like he had you know like he was despondent he was angry you could tell that he was agitated even being on camera he was like all these things right like I could just see me in him and then they do the after and the dude was glowing he's like a different person I barely recognized him he's he's smiling it's not fake you can just tell that he like that rucksack was off his back you know what I mean and I was like holy shit like what is this like ahuskia like I couldn't even pronounce ayahuasca you know like what is this? I'm like trying to write it down couldn't spell it and I was like okay I don't know what that is but I think like that was a glimmer of hope and in a light at the tunnel where I started like okay I think I know where to keep going and I I just kept deep diving and deep diving and deep diving until I finally found an ayahuasca ceremony. I went to a retreat it was three days of medicine it was two nights of ayahuasca followed by a night of um psilocybin but the psilocybin dose was kind of a mid-range dose I I'm guessing it was around a gram. She didn't measure it the the shaman just handed you based on her feeling looking in your eyes it wasn't enough I didn't journey really um not too deeply and then it was during that retreat where that shaman she in the middle of my first ceremony like I'm I'm like an hour into ceremony and she came up and visits with me and she says you know we talked about my rage we talked about my PTSD her and her staff worked on me energetically and then she says okay I need to go check on my other staff members or on my other guests but I just want you to know that it's my distinct honor and pleasure to inform you you're a shaman too.

SPEAKER_01:

You just don't remember and and the first thought I had was like this episode is also brought to you by Precision Wellness Group. Getting your hormones optimized shouldn't be a difficult task and Dr. Taylor Bosley has changed the game head on over to precision wellnessgroup.com enroll and become a patient today I don't remember there being a shaman package I could have even signed up for like serious I didn't see the charge of my credit card like I only came for the medicine I really no I didn't come for the apprenticeship like like do I get a refund?

SPEAKER_02:

What's going on? Like I'm so confused um that was my first thought my second thought was well there's another dude over there that's kind of middle aged and bald too like maybe you meant him I I don't know like what's going on so at first it was a real bumpy ride but then you know the universe kept like oh the universe kept like just destroying my life is the best way to say it like I had like a year's worth of contracts lined up because I was military contracting at the time and every single one of those died like literally like like oh we lost the contract oh we we added too many people oh they canceled oh whatever I was just like what what is happening to me you know and I was so angry at the medicine I thought it was her fault all these things final bottom line though I went on a journey to really try to understand if I really truly was a shaman and so I I went to a friend's house and asked them to trip sit for me and we did I did seven grams of psilocybin. So that was like my second attempt at at psilocybin I went seven grams considerably a lot that's a lot for the listeners out there that's a lot um call that a heroic dose yeah heroic dose is pretty much five and above and and so my second attempt was seven um again don't try that at home but it it's what it's what I felt prompted and I and I felt like it was the right dose but in that in that ceremony that grandfather Jay that I mentioned earlier he came back to me I call him grandfather uh but he's you know he's ancestral but in any case he came back to me and he sat in front of me like you know like two feet away from me cross legged and he spoke to me for six hours and at one point I had to grab my friend like about a half hour into this when I realized that this was going to be the whole experience I just grabbed my friend and said look my ancestor is sitting here talking to me for has has been for the whole time and I don't I'm afraid I can't remember what I'm hearing so if I repeat what he's saying will you write it all down for me please just take shorthand notes and I'll transcribe it later and so for six hours he he talked to me even at one point I said I gotta get a drink of water I need to use the bathroom and he said he said essentially he said get back here I've been waiting millennia to talk to you and I'm like okay fine like just give me two minutes I'll I'll make it quick and I go back and I sit back down with him and at one point in that conversation he hands me literally he hands me this book the book that's out um slightly different cover but it said it was the exact title from Green Beret to shamanism one man's journey to hill and he he puts sorry he puts it in my hands right and I I'm like oh from green beret to shamanism one man's journey to hill I'm like oh that's a great I that looks like an interesting book I'll read that and he's like he just looked at me like really dude I'm like I'm like oh oh oh okay sorry I'm a little slow on the uptake you know like and so that's how the book came about like that that is the honest to God truth that's how that happened I never I never set out to be or wanted to be an author and this happened I mean this happened five years ago and I I started immediately I hit a wall I stopped I put it away for three years and then last year I went on a pilgrimage which was part of my shamanic apprenticeships I've I've done four apprenticeships on three different continents now two two of them here in North America one in Colombia with my shaman taita there um and then I went to Scandinavia because I I identify in the Nordic shamanic tradition and so I I went to Scandinavia to find a a mentor I went there literally with no plans like my whole my whole plan was I'm gonna get off the plane and wander around until I find a Nordic shaman that was it how long did it take um a monthish about a month yeah I got there I think if I got if I remember correctly um yeah I got there about the first or second week of June and I had connected with this man by the first week of July through it was miraculous means I'd met a person who introduced me to another woman husband and wife they had a friend from Estonia they connected me to him he had a friend in Denmark he connected me to her she knew a man in Sweden where I was and she connected me to him so all that that whole process took about three three to four weeks um and and here's here's the interesting thing about that he you know I went there I I've been searching and searching online for um somebody like that for you know years because because as much as I had learned through from my North American and my South American mentors I didn't feel like I could feel like I'm I am a you know a Scandinavian shaman and I needed that validity I needed to go to the source. So I've been googling and searching and just couldn't find it and then and if and to me looking back it's like no source wanted me to go and do it the right way in person. And so I go and I I find this man and I talk to him and he'd been teaching he'd been practicing shamanism for 45 years he'd been teaching for 40 years um he he was very prolific he knew like personal friends with some very influential people in the space authors and and writers and speakers and he he said he was willing to work with me and so everything fell into place but the cherry on top he was a Vietnam veteran wow yeah that is very unique exactly he he was he was he was a US you know he was he was raised in um New York uh he'd gone to Colombia he'd gone to Vietnam he came back he was getting his um PhD in anthropology so he went to Denmark and then discovered shamanism and never came back um and so he was an expat so not only was I talking to a one of the most experienced shamans in the world but also an expert in Scandinavian shamanism and oh by the way just happened to be a combat veteran in the army I was like you you can't make this shit up you know yeah it it it we focus a lot on the treatment modalities are available in South and Central America but for a lot of us that haven't studied it for long and and really understand where all these medicines like they're everywhere.

SPEAKER_01:

They're everywhere they they they are deeply rooted in ancient ways uh ammonita muscaria ammonita muscaria um yeah it it's I mean it's in that region yep and it was utilized by by these uh various tribes for many many years many many many many many years in in our uh in history and we don't focus enough attention on that understand that it's deeply connected and all over the world um precisely and in fact I I like to remind people you know we we I think that there's probably a lot of people in the regiment and things like that they'll say you know Tilvalhalda and yeah yeah it's and and I get it and I respect it.

SPEAKER_02:

There's there's part of that that I think's a little bit um misplaced like Vikings not even really like that's a whole nother story for another time but um I just also like I say okay like let's embrace that if you want if that's where you want to go with it then let's embrace that and look at that realistically and anthropologically and you can you can go back and you can see exactly that thing in fact there was a movie about two maybe three years ago called Norseman. The Northman yeah yeah the North there's three shamans in that movie yes there is yeah yeah there's the first one he goes with his son there's the old lady when he's off pillaging that reroutes him back and then there's the one in the village when he returns and and so you're absolutely right I appreciate you saying that it's not foreign it's not woohoo it's not it it is your every tradition every culture every people every ethnic class had a form of a healer or a shaman and access to their Own medicines everywhere in the world, period. End of story.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad you you made that part of your journey. Um, we don't think about it enough. You know, you're you're a person with a a history, a people that stretch back a long line. Connect with your past, understand where you come from. It might be easier for some people, it might be very difficult for others, but it's worth the look. I mean, uh it's worth understanding where you come from. And at the very end, it'll show you that there's different ways to heal from every every cultural standpoint. Yeah, it's it's worth looking into. It's worth understanding where you come from. Maybe you're not going to go in down this deep uh line of researching and and follow it to becoming a shaman, but man, you should understand where you come from. Be proud. Uh now more than ever, man. There's way too many people calling for you know the revisionist uh look of history. It's like, no, dude, like you deserve to understand where you come from and be proud of it. If we didn't have that understanding, um, you know, who knows? You know, you may never you may not have ever been able to experience this. It's an important thing to touch on, man. That there's so much that we can take from just pausing and reflecting where we come from and knowing that, dude, within us is a long line of individuals, and it can lead us into a better understanding like what we can utilize uh in our journeys, what we need, man. Connecting and understanding who you are comes in various forms, dude.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. And and I I just to me, again, it's this whole idea of like if if you really truly understood um, you know, what what shamanism is, what it was, um, and and its role in in what brought you here, yeah, you you would you'd be way more inclined to just be curious about it and and to embrace embrace it. It's it's it's not um you know some sort of hocus pocus make-believe thing. It's it's it's actually just using Mother Nature um incorporated into your healing process. It's that simple. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, a big shout out to an individual that was on the show and talked about this that was and and really made a part of his own healing journey, uh Clay Martin, same thing. Uh he found psilocybin and it was the only thing that had worked for him, the only thing. And he dove into it. And one of the earliest things that he gained from his journey was the importance of being out in nature. And he ran with it. He absolutely ran with it. He's like, you know what? Like, I need to be out here. I need to connect with Mother Nature. I need to, and he went as far as uh detailing how important it was for him to have not artificial light at the very beginning of the day, but having candlelight, being able to utilize all these things that he wouldn't have thought of if he would just continue around the normal path of healing with Western medicine. But it he was brave enough to die. And and and the thing that I find very important, uh, which is why I tell guys from our background to talk and lean into this, if you've used it, if you've experienced it, is your resume, your background is important to a lot of younger veterans. It gives you an instant entry into their world because they respect you. Be willing to talk about these medicines, be willing to be a vocal advocate. If you don't want to write a book, don't write a book. But be willing to share your story, be willing to say that, hey, this helped me. That reading this allowed me to connect with a different part of who I was, and it led me down a path of healing, deep, real, real healing. It's just it's it's really important right now.

SPEAKER_02:

I I again I could not agree more. Um I I really think that that is where the where the rubber meets the road in this community is you know, we're all concerned um about the number of people out there who are suffering, contemplating taking their own life or taking their own lives. Or, you know, even like when we talk about the you know, the 22 a day or whatever the number is, I know there's a lot of debate about that. We don't we don't always account for those that are taking their lives slowly, you know one one can at a time, one shot at a time. You know what I mean? And so there's it it's even broader than we we acknowledge. And and so we we have to get to a place, I believe, in my opinion, we have to get to a place of like just real candid honesty and saying, like, hey, like this is the reality. Um this is where I'm at, this is or this is where I was at, this is what I used, this is what's working. We have to talk about that uh openly and be willing to own not only the you know the fact like like what I kind of skipped over, it wasn't just the arrest, what was also going on is I was really close to uh killing myself. I'd I'd gone up into the mountains to to do that a few months before my arrest. Um and and I think that there's too many people who um aren't willing to talk about that. And and it's not, you know, I'm not being critical of them, but what I am saying is is I want to invite those out there that are struggling to talk about it with somebody that you are you feel safe with, um, because you'll you'll quickly come to find out that you're not alone. You're absolutely not alone in this struggle. Everybody's struggling.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Some more than others, some mask it a different way. I always tell people um it you don't know who's having a rough day. When you interact with people, even if you have a poor interaction with somebody, somebody's having a bad day and they lash out at you, or somebody's just an absolute asshole to you. And I'm really quick to point out hurt people, hurt people. You never know. Take the higher road, be willing to be the bigger person. I know it's hard, but remind yourself of common humanity. You're not the only one suffering. Everybody around you has their own fight. And that is such a good reminder, and I always say it a lot you know, focus on common humanity. If you're suffering, if you're stuck in your small world, and I was right there, I was I suffered with it for a long time. Always did something really stupid. Um, because I was so focused on my own suffering. The aperture was really, really narrow. Only I can deal. Only I am, I'm the only one dealing with this. I'm the only one suffering with this. And I'm I'm telling you today, if you're going through it, if it's a rough time for you, be willing to open up the aperture and realize that in this entire world, there are others just like you dealing with difficult situations, but you're gonna get through it. You will absolutely get through it. We don't know how, we don't know when, but you've got to remain hopeful. Uh, I think that that's one of the greatest things that these medicines are able to do for us. Give us a real true perspective, open the world, and let us know that you this this experience is vast. It is communicating and because it really is a two-way communication with something else. It allows you to see like, holy shit, this lived experience is deeper, it's bigger, it's all-encompassing. I am not alone.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and and that that takes me back to that first night of ceremony. Um, you know, after that, after that first night, and that was a wild night, like after she went and spoke to me, there were some other significant events. In fact, uh she actually put me to work. It was it was really by far it was it was strange. I I know that in ayahuasca circles, if anybody heard that I went to work in a ceremony, you know, three hours after my first cup of ayahuasca, they would be like, that's not right. But it's what happened. That was her call. I didn't try to do that. She she put me to work. But in any case, at the end of that ceremony, you know, I was sitting up there on this mountain looking out over this valley, and it was only it was not far from where I grew up, um, which was also more significant. It was the week of my birthday, it was the week of summer solstice. And I'm I'm looking out over this, and I had that feeling, that realization of that same guy I had watched that YouTube video of, you know, when I was doing my research, where I was just like, I I know exactly what it was. I just I said, oh my god, like I had forgotten what happiness felt like. I forgot I totally forgot this feeling. Like, why why have I been living the past 40 years without this? You know, like going back to when I was like a kid and remembering just what it was like just to be happy.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah. One of the most beautiful things that I I've been able to capture too, with individuals that are willing to share the story, is that clear, definitive line of who they were and who they are now. Uh, before we wrap things up, like let us know, like, how has Matthew changed since since his experience since his experience began?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, you know, I'm gonna honor the regiment and honor you and honor that question by being really honest. Um, and this might this might be controversial. Um but you know um some significant changes so far is um I you know I was estranged from my parents, like everybody, I was estranged from everybody in my family. Um my kids didn't want to talk to me, my I had put up a wall between me and my parents, my sister. Um all of that um is fixed. So I I have beautiful, healthy relationships with everybody in my family again. Um I immediately gave up drinking, like it wasn't even hard, like I just didn't even crave it anymore. It was like uh like you know, I'd I'd go out to a restaurant or whatever, and people would ask for a drink order, and like I'd think, do I want to drink? And the answer was always like, yeah, no, you just don't need that. And so I I never even struggled with alcohol or drug addiction anymore. Um, thirdly, I'm completely off of all pharma, um pretty much off of everything. I might take a little magnesium every once in a while, some minerals, uh, just to kind of keep the old central nervous system working, right? Um also, and this is the one I kind of um got a little emotional about, like I'm I'm also very much um I'm very much a pacifist now. Like I I don't have any shame over the war. I don't have any shame over my service or anything I did. But I also have come to really truly believe that war is a an enterprise for making the the military industrial complex rich. Uh so I don't, you know, I mean I I advocate for national defense and I I support our regiment and I'm proud to be a part of the regiment, but I I'm not a fan of war unless we get drug into it, you know. Um so there's that. And honestly, it's it's I don't like to say the word happiness because I feel like happiness is um too cliche and there's too many I'd like to say there's just peace in zen in my life. I I'm able to maintain peace and and joy and zen in my life. I do a little, I don't do a lot of plant medicine. I do ceremonies and I'll do it there. So in by that regard, I do a lot. But I'm I don't do I don't use it daily. I I actually what I do daily is art and cold plunging and meditation more than anything. That's that's where it's at.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, absolutely. It it's um you know, another big shout out to Clinton Baudell Dooley, another great Green Beret. Uh and he's one one of the few that made that point too. Like you can't, you shouldn't chase these medicines and utilize them over and over again. And when it shows you, and there's a there's there's this beautiful thing afterwards, where you are the best version of yourself. You're dialed in. I'm talking about, think of the best stress test or competition you've ever ran and how you perform effortlessly. I mean, everything was dialed in. I felt that way and felt so good. Scheduling, boom, boom. This serves me, not for me. I'm not gonna worry about this. I'll be able to do this, this, and this, and you feel great. So then you stumble. And then it's like, oh man, where's that magic ether? Where's that? And the reality is it's not meant to last forever. You can do the hard work and it can feel effortlessly, but you have to earn it. And it's through present moment awareness, through meditation, through being focused on your day-to-day life. And it takes work, it makes it easier to do that work. But the reality is it's going to fade away, whether it's a month, two months, three months, but it's still there. And rather than chase the medicine and try to get plugged in and try to go again, be a beginner. Chase beginners' mind. Be willing to wake up every single day and realize what your core mission is, what your values is, what you're gonna do, and start that day every single day. It starts every day the same way. Focused on what's important, focused on your mission statement, meditation, prayer, cold plunge, working out, moving your body. It's work. You just lost that little bit of magical filter, and it's normal. But don't chase the medicine. Um, because eventually it will tell you like you're not gonna get any of this, and it's and it will communicate with you. The medicine.

SPEAKER_02:

No, not today. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, exactly. So it use that that the next few days, the next few weeks after this amazing experience to set you off on the right path, to continue your journey of healing, to get better, to set the parameters, to meet mission success on a daily basis every day. Set up your systems. You're a service member, you're a veteran, you're a Green Beret, you know how to do these things. It's a little difficult now, you're not in the uniform, but you have the same ability to succeed. It's like our creed says live to succeed again. You can do it. It's just going to take a little bit of work and don't chase the medicine. I talk to a lot of individuals, they're like, man, when do I go back? I'm like, well, if you did everything you needed to and you communicated and you did the right thing, it's about moving forward. It's the same thing with any modality. You're not meant to take medicines for the rest of your life. If you don't have a cold, why are you taking cold medicine? The same thing.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, if I I'm so glad you brought that up. Um you know, every hero's dose of psychedelics and it doesn't matter which one you do, will give you 30 days of neuroplasticity and neurogenesis. And what what in the community we talk about is that's that's the integration. Integration is how we is the term for what you're talking about doing the work. And when you when people come to our program and sit with us, we hammer, hammer, hammer home the idea that like, listen, man, ceremony is not it. This is not what it's about. Ceremony is just us pushing the reset button on you, and then you're gonna go home and you're gonna have 30 days where we're gonna call you at least three or four times to check in with you to ensure that you are following the roadmap you planned out during this weekend to make permanent changes under new neuroplasticity, meaning like the old way of thinking, the old habits, the old addictions, those are all gone. We hit the reset button. Now, what are you putting on that blank canvas today and for the next 30 days? And then there's your habits, and now you have habits, long-term, non-plant medicine habits that sustain you long term. Now, should you come back or not? I don't know. That that's kind of a depends. When people ask me if they should like sometimes I'll get a call and they'll say, Hey, I think I need to come back, and I'll say, Well, what's going on? They'll tell me. I'm like, Well, are you still cold punching? Are you still meditating? Are you still? I remember your thing, you were gonna you know write letters to all the people you offended. Did you follow your plan? Well, no, no, no, and no. And I'm like, hmm, yeah, you need to do go do that for 90 days and then call me back, and then they never call me back.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, there's no like the this this modality, these mo these medicines can seem like a magical button, a magic wand. But the reality is after you have this great experience, there's a lot of work to be done. So suit up, get your boots back on, put on the rucksack, and get ready to work. Get ready to heal, but get ready to work.

SPEAKER_02:

And become your own that's a real become your own mental health provider, your own primary care physician, and your own patient. And and that's brings us back full circle. Go to work, man.

SPEAKER_01:

Go to work. Go to work. You know, it it's it's uh it's simple, but you're not alone. Matthew wrote a book for you. Matthew, where can we get this book?

SPEAKER_02:

It's on Amazon. Um, again, from Green Beret Shamanism, One Man's Journey Hill. It's in all four formats. I got hardcover, paperback, Kindle, and Audible. All of them can be found. Nice. And and most importantly, I almost forgot to mention it. 100% of the proceeds. Um, the the actual publisher, if you look at the publisher on here, it says natural worship, which is our nonprofit that does these ceremonies. So all the proceeds go straight into the nonprofit bank account. I don't even see them. Uh, and we use those proceeds to um fund ceremony for guys that just can't afford it.

SPEAKER_01:

So where do you guys do your ceremonies at?

SPEAKER_02:

We do primarily we do them here in Utah. Um, we'll probably run about eight a year on average. And then I take I'm also taking um guys down to Colombia twice a year. So we'll be going down to Colombia in March and September on the equinoxes. So if you want to get on those trips, or if you want to come see us in Utah or go on those trips, let me know. And then we'll also be doing um a summer trip to Mexico to do Iboga. So on on the Colombia, Mexico trips, I'm just I'm just your tour guide because I know the system. I I've done the PDSS, so to speak. So um I'll get you, I'll infill you and exfill you. That's all my role is in those trips. If you come sit with us here, we have a buy with through program, meaning that everybody on our staff is a veteran. So, you know, like it'll feel familiar to you. We'll talk about like, hey, we're gonna SP it this time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and where can it go? Is there is there a website to sign up?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, uh, you can go to awaitgreenbaret.com. That's also another place to find my book. Um, and then that'll have all the links to get in in touch with me. Um, and yeah, we can we can plug you in, we can share our calendar um with you there more effectively and and stuff. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Awesome. Guys, do me a favor. Or pause, go to the episode description, click those links, or just scan this QR code, this one right here. Scan it. I'll wait. You can't get it that fast. But it'll be in the episode description. Now, do me another favor. If you're a Green Beret or a family member of a Green Beret and you need resources, need help with anything, reach out to Special Forces Foundation. I'm a proud member of that. Awesome nonprofit. And I love supporting them because they uh they support the show. So I got to give it back to them. So scan this QR code if you need to get plugged in with Special Forces Foundation today. Rain or shine, day or night, uh, they will be there for you. Reach out uh or hit up in the slide in the DMs. Let us know if we need if we can help you in any way because uh you've earned it. You served our nation, or your family member served our nation, and now it's uh it's up to us to take care of you or help you get connected with a great organization that can help you in the situation you're in. Um remember, no requests too small or too great. We will get you connected with who you need to get plugged in with. Uh, Matthew, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for what you're doing and for coming on here and sharing your story, man. Um, it's a powerful testament that it's never too late to heal. And after you get through your suffering, take an about face, look into the void, and help somebody get through theirs. That's the only way we're gonna get through this veteran suicide epidemic, is if more of us get powerful enough and get healed enough to turn around, reach into the void, and help others. And here's here's the key to success. You don't have to be 100% healed because that's just a fallacy. It's the continuous work. Every day I do something to work on it because I fail. There's nobody perfect in this world except for one man, he's up there looking out for you. I don't care what you believe in. I'm just saying, just throwing it out there, just throwing it out there, throw it back if you don't believe it. We're not perfect. And our journey is going to take us the rest of our lives. But once we get through about 70% and you got more wins than uh, you know, failures, turn around. Help somebody else, get them out of that void, help them get better so they can do the same thing. And that's just a constant cycle helping each other out. That's what we need because there's no giant nonprofit or giant organization that's gonna come in and solve this. It's just gonna take a bunch of veterans, Green Berets, infantrymen, mortarmen, 92 Yankees, okay, maybe not them, 88 mics, a whole bunch of different individuals turning around and helping each other out. I'm kidding. I love all you get admin folks. Matt, again, thank you for being here. And to everybody listening, thank you so much for supporting the show. But more importantly, thank you for taking care of each other. Thank you for tuning in, and we'll see you all next time. Cheers. Thanks for having me.

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Deny Caballero

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