Security Halt!
Welcome to Security Halt! Podcast, the show dedicated to Veterans, Active Duty Service Members, and First Responders. Hosted by retired Green Beret Deny Caballero, this podcast dives deep into the stories of resilience, triumph, and the unique challenges faced by those who serve.
Through powerful interviews and candid discussions, Security Halt! Podcast highlights vital resources, celebrates success stories, and offers actionable tools to navigate mental health, career transitions, and personal growth.
Join us as we stand shoulder-to-shoulder, proving that even after the mission changes, the call to serve and thrive never ends.
Security Halt!
Sally Roberts Wrestling, Resilience, Mental Health & Leadership
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Sponsored by:
Pure Liberty Labs • Precision Wellness Group • The Special Forces Foundation
In this episode of Security Halt!, host Deny Caballero engages in an insightful conversation with Sally Roberts, delving into a compelling narrative that explores themes of resilience, mental health, leadership, and empowerment.. From a troubled youth to elite wrestler, nonprofit founder, and advocate for athletes and veterans, Sally shares how wrestling gave her discipline, purpose, and community—and why true leadership means taking responsibility for others.
This conversation covers:
· Mental health challenges in athletes and veterans
· Building resilience through adversity and suffering
· Leadership rooted in service, accountability, and care
· Psychedelics and their role in trauma healing
· Empowering young girls through sport and community
Sally also discusses her mission with Wrestle Like a Girl, the importance of belonging, and why healing is a lifelong journey driven by connection and purpose. This is a raw, honest, and motivating conversation for anyone navigating transition, leadership, or personal growth.
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📲 Follow, rate, review, and share to support the mission and help amplify conversations around mental health, resilience, and leadership.
⏱️ Episode Chapters
00:00 – Troubled Beginnings & Wrestling
03:02 – Community and Belonging
05:51 – The Olympic Path
09:11 – Adversity and Identity
12:05 – Wrestling for Girls
15:01 – Deployment and Purpose
17:50 – Building a Nonprofit
34:27 – Leadership and Initiative
39:25 – Self-Discovery
44:21 – Psychedelic Healing
49:54 – Community and Connection
56:48 – Advocacy and Impact
🔗 Sponsors & Support
Pure Liberty Labs — Code: SECURITY_HALT_10
Precision Wellness Group — Code: Security Halt Podcast 25
Special Forces Foundation — specialforcesfoundation.org/get-support
🔗 Connect
Security Halt Media: @securityhalt
Host: Deny Caballero
Produced by Security Halt Media
Sally Roberts, welcome to Security Podcast. How are you today?
SPEAKER_01:Hi, I'm doing well. Thank you. And yourself?
SPEAKER_00:I am tired, but I am excited. I'm re-energized and vitalized. So I'm here to talk to you about some awesome stuff. More importantly, uh, your your work with in in the nonprofit space with wrestle like a girl. Uh, for a long time, that phrase, that connotation kind of leaves a negative taste in the mouth, like you hit like a girl. But uh, as a proud girl dad, I now realize that when my little one gets a little bit bigger, I wanted to fight and I wanted to kick ass and I wanted to wrestle. And, you know, we need people like you in this space to say, yeah, our girls can do that. That's where they belong. So today I want to dive into your journey because I've been able to get a little bit of it, and I think it starts off like a lot of us with a lot of mischief getting in trouble.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's right. That's right. Uh the military uh finds a handful of people, and it's usually the people that need to be found. Uh so growing up, my mom had been married five times. I didn't like being at home after school. I would go out and shoplift and break into houses. And I got uh arrested so many times that I got put in front of a juvenile detention officer that told me if I didn't find an after-school activity, I was gonna face going to Juvie. And I couldn't have told you about um Harvard, Stanford, University of Washington, any of those schools. Like it just, no one in my peer group ever went to those places. But we all did, like, they they did go to Juvie and they just said, yeah, you don't want to go there. And I was like, well, what do my friends do after school? And I was like, oh, they play sports, softball, basketball, volleyball. So I was like, oh, I know, I'm gonna go out for a sport. That'll keep me occupied. And I tried out for the sports. I got cut from every single one of them because they were all team sports. I had no idea how to play well with others. I had a um, my one of my older brothers and I, we would just fist fight all the time. That was our language of love to each other. And it was one of those scenarios where, man, my back was against a wall. I needed something to do. I had this really um, I had something inside of me and I couldn't understand how to control it. And when I crossed the threshold into the wrestling room, I found a place of purpose and a and a sense of belonging. And it was really interesting. Uh, this was in 19 uh like 94. I'm 45. And this was when girls did not wrestle. And this was at a time where there was a lot of no one actually, and here's what's crazy, man. No one gave me any slack for being a girl that went and wrestled. Like, there's some athletes when they walk into the wrestling room, you're like, oh my God, I'm so glad they're here. And that was what my coach like had this sense of like, yeah, this is an athlete we can do something with. And I got told, like, hey, you can fight in this room, but you have to start fighting this direction. Otherwise, you're gonna get kicked off the team. Like, you can't just fight. And I was like, oh, thank you for telling me. Like, I didn't understand, I didn't know. Like, I I thought it was MMA, like way early on. And so it just was one of those incredible sports that captured someone that needed a place, and it gave me a sense of stability and belonging in it, and it allowed me to just really start to have a conversation with myself about so much rage that I felt, and it felt so good to get it out.
SPEAKER_00:You know, we we do a good job of talking about that with boys, um, especially in football, contact sports. Uh, we need to put them in the in the grid iron to get all that that pent-up frustration. But we don't ever think about the same with our girls, especially if they come from, you know, a bad environment. They have issues at home. Um, that's something that to me just seems that you know, anybody can have a bad home. Anybody can be seeking support in a non-standard way in sports. You know, looking back at that time, the did you find coaches and peers that were willing to accept you and help you find that positive outlet?
SPEAKER_01:I believe at that point in my life I was such a flame of whatever emotion that I was feeling that I didn't care if people liked it or if they didn't like it. It was the one place that I had to go that allowed me to just release whatever it was I was feeling in a way that was socially and culturally acceptable in that, in that place. And because it was wrestling and I was wrestling against other boys, like they weren't taking it easy on me, and I wouldn't have wanted them to. Like every day, it was like shark attack, except for I was the one getting attacked every day. I recently got informed from the state of Washington, that's where I grew up, the Washington State Wrestling Hall of Fame. I'm getting inducted into the Hall of Fame, and they said, Hey, you were wrestling before we were really keeping track of girls' records versus boys' records. So do you know what your win-loss record is? I was like, Yeah, I won one match. One match. I got my ass kicked for nine years, but I didn't care because I wasn't going to juvie. I won one match. And I remember when I was in high school, people would say, like, what's your win-loss record? And I'd be like, I don't want to talk about it. It's because I wasn't winning, I was losing every day, and I still loved it.
SPEAKER_00:There's something to be said about that. How many people how many kids? I know I went to school with a lot of kids that, you know, the first couple games in football, if they didn't make it onto the field, they just quit. Mark Mora, you're one of them. Just walk away completely. If you don't get on the field the first couple of plays, you're like, I'm done. No more. Don't want to do it. But that that's uh that's a lot of grit for a kid to stay in day in, day out, show up and wrestle and you know, walk away uh without that win, you know, as you went forward in life. What kept you in the sport? Because, you know, for a lot of kids, that positive reinforcement of at least getting a win, getting a couple notches on your belt, what kept you engaged and not saying, you know, screw it, I'll go to Juvie Hall.
SPEAKER_01:For me, it was community. I felt like I had a sense of belonging and I had a place where I could show up that welcomed me. And I do like to make a joke. People were like, oh, when I get angry, I have a very particular um spice that comes out. And someone was like, What is that spice? And I was like, I'm pretty sure it's 13-year-old wrestling boy. Like that is what I identified with growing up. I didn't, I didn't have interactions with a lot of females with women. And so I would watch women get angry, and I'm like, wow, that's so muted. Like, that's understated. Like, where's the expression? And they're like, Yes, Psycho, that's what you do, not everyone else. And so for me, it was about that community and it was about belonging. And I I also started swimming when I was in high school. And that was because I was homeless. I was sleeping in my car and I needed a place to shower before I could go into school so I wouldn't get made fun of. And so when it came time for me to start to get towards graduation, I had two college scholarship opportunities. One was to go swim at a college, and and it was going to be a slight monetary amount. And then the other one was to go and wrestle at the University of Minnesota Morris, and they didn't give me a scholarship, but they offered me housing. And I was like, oh my gosh, I like can have a place to sleep. And so that kept me on my trajectory of wrestling because it was able to provide for me, like under um Manslow's hierarchy of needs, safety and security are so paramount. And to be able to start to be able to develop that, and it was, it wasn't necessarily motherly love, fatherly love that was doing it. It was wrestling. I was like, oh, I just fell in love with the sport. I say that wrestlers are either running from something or running to something, probably both. And it is, it is one of those places that allows uh the riff raff like people like us, um, and and people that don't even know that people like us exist to be caught and to have a place of home and belonging and sisterhood, brotherhood, camaraderie.
SPEAKER_00:Man, Sal, you hit on something that's so important for us to, as we're, you know, the audience listening for a lot of us, we don't get this clarity until we're, you know, long down the road as to like, why why did I go in the military? Why did I follow this path? You know, the hierarchy of needs, man. I was a kid that had a very similar background, and we're talking about like, hey, if I can put food on the table for myself, that's a win tonight. Like, how do I duplicate that tomorrow and the next day and the next week? Like when it's not a system, or it's not a conventional system. It wasn't a somebody, it wasn't a uh a family that took you in. It was it was wrestling that uh gave you that opportunity. It makes perfect sense while you're like, fuck yeah, I'm gonna continue chasing this. May only have one win, but fuck it. I'm going. Like, this is it. Like it is a proven method to get food on the table and a place to sleep at night. I am in.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. What was it like getting the college? Wrestling. College was interesting. I I had a 1.09 GPA. That's I didn't pass any classes. All I did was go to wrestling, and I would show up to classes just enough so that I would stay eligible to be on the wrestling team. And at a certain point, it became clear to everyone around me that all I wanted to do was be a fanatic about this very particular sport. And so in 2000, in 2003, women's wrestling got announced it was going to be in the Olympics. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is perfect. So the the United States Olympic Committee opened up its resident training program to girls for the first time ever. So I I went up to at that time the national team coach Terry Steiner, and uh I said, hey, I would love to come out to the Olympic Training Center and wrestle. Um at that time, I wasn't very, I was maybe like fifth in the nation. I wouldn't have considered myself very good. But I said, if you give me a shot, I promise you I'll make you proud, and even more so, I'll make me proud. He was like, Okay, and and nothing happened with that conversation. And then six weeks later, I get a phone call that says, Hey, you've got six months to prove yourself. You need to, if we you're gonna come down here, I want you to dedicate yourself to wrestling, and you're gonna show me that I made the right choice. And I was like, You got it. I come down to the Olympic training center, I get a wrestle 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We steal cards, like uh we steal the keys so we can break in after hours and wrestle. And we're just like, we're just so enmeshed in this lifestyle, and it's so comforting. And in six months, I win my first national championship and I win my first world bronze medal. Like what I needed was safety, security, a sense of belonging, and someone to say, you can be as great as you want to be. No one's gonna stop you. The only one that's gonna stop you is yourself or your body because you're not understanding what how to rest, heal, and recover. So you need to start doing both. And I had to start to switch my brain over from just being this completely neurotic fanatic uh wrestler to actually becoming a student of the sport and and understanding a little bit more of the mindset and the mental skill sets training if I wanted to have longevity in the work that I was doing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's important to I want to hit on this a little bit. I talked to a lot of people that they're well-many, they're well-meaning, they come from a very, you know, I don't not privileged, but they had a very good upbringing, they had good parents, didn't have a lot of adversity, and they've never had that situation where they get knocked in the in the mouth. They they get hit, they get knocked down. You know, resilience and grit isn't built in the safety and comfort of the shore. You gotta go out there and do things, and that that's a beautiful thing about your story. There's a way you can do it in a safe way, in a proper way, and admit it, and that's sports. That's being able to do something in a team like wrestling. And you said it, that gave you the environment to feel safe, to finally feel like you had worth and value and be amongst peers that valued you as well. And I think there's a different there's there are two narratives out in the world right now that girls don't belong. And the reality is if you if you show up, if you really want to do this and and you approach it like an athlete, you belong in this space. I think we need to amplify that. Girls in combat sports at a young age, we have this idea, oh, they can't do that. They're too fragile, they're too soft. Like, no, that's it, that's the opposite. That's not what we should be saying. We should be saying, yes, absolutely. If others can do it, why not you? And it's so great to see your perspective and hear your story from somebody that was headed down the wrong path, and the opportunity came in the form of wrestling. That's beautiful. That's that's something that more people need to hear. It's not the gentle, soft hug and comfort of somebody, I'm gonna be your benefactor, I'm gonna take care of you. It's like, no, get in that sweaty room with 30 other dudes and learn the basics, learn the principles, and hammer it out day in and day out. You're gonna have a brotherhood, you're gonna have sisterhood, you're gonna have somebody that believes in you, but most importantly, you gotta work. You gotta work. And that's something we need to talk about, man.
SPEAKER_01:And the beautiful thing about wrestling in sp in particular, but all sports, is that in order for you to be successful, it demands that you have to suffer. And you have to be able to sit through that suffering and find the joy in it. And if you can sit and suffer long enough and gain gain clarity of mind, you might have a chance of coming out the other side and winning. And even then, that's only a small percentage of a chance. It teaches you how to sit with suffering, how to find the joy in suffering, and how to bet on yourself time and time again.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, suffering well. That that's something that a lot of us in the special operations understand going through the Q course. People always they always want to know the quick route to avoid an injury or avoid pain. It's like, dude, it's gonna be fucking miserable. Do you do you have that dog in you to say fuck it? IT ban hurts, but it'll ease off in a little bit. It's just pain. It feels like it feels like your leg is being torn apart, but nah, dog, that's just pain. And you put in a couple miles in that ruck, it'll go away, or you just won't pay attention to it anymore. And people just want to to do the safe, do this, do the avoid the pain route. But it's like you want to be successful in life, you can't avoid the pain. You cannot avoid the mystery and the suffering. It's part of it, it's it comes with it. You can't have the the success of being an Olympian, of being a professional athlete without suffering, man.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I agree with that.
SPEAKER_00:No, going through in in that arena, in that moment of your career, like you finally have made it to a point where like the big stakes, there are big chances to win. Like, were you able to deal with the pressure? Were you able to positively mitigate it, or did you find yourself having to, you know, find alternate methods of dealing with the stress of the punishment, pain, and the situations that a lot of us fall victim to? This episode is brought to you by Pure Liberty Labs. Quality supplements designed to elevate your health and performance. Check out their full line of quality supplements, whether you're looking for whey protein, pre-workout, creatine, or super greens drink. Pure Liberty Labs has you covered. Use my code security hall10 at checkout today.
SPEAKER_01:Full spectrum. Within my wrestling career. And I I did. I I there would be times and I couldn't tell you when it was going to happen, but I would start to get emotional dysregulation, which was even it's more intense than anxiety. It's something that would just start rolling through your body and it would roll over the base of my skull, and it would just feel like an electrical firestorm. And I'm like, I don't know what is happening, I don't know where this is coming from. And I ended up deciding to get my master's in sport and performance psychology so that I can understand the brain and why does it do this? And how do you control that? And if we want to truly become strong, like how do we strengthen our internal constitution so that our mind and body start to flow as one? I read that book four times, flow, like how to get into this body mastery. I never got it. It never clicked for me. And I would read it and I'm gonna be like, flow, flow, flow. It never worked. Like there was always some sort of roadblock that I was running into and I couldn't quite figure it out. And and I dedicated myself to trying my best to understand it. Like, and I did it with passion, I did it with joy. I'm like, what's wrong with me today? I couldn't figure it out. I was like, I I I just felt at times that I was stumbling through the dark. And in in 2008, uh, that was when the Olympics were gonna be in Beijing China. I I really was like, I'm going to resolve this. Like, whatever it is, I'm resolving it. And I took um no, like I went to task on really creating a master plan of what it was gonna take to become an Olympic champion. And I built it out from weight cutting to sports and performance psychology to breath work, yoga, meditation, plus as much wrestling as possible and building in recovery. And when I would leave when practices would be finished, I would say, Oh my gosh, I'm so glad we didn't have one more sprint because I would have died. And then I would find myself in a negative mindset. So I would line up on the line and I would make myself run one more sprint just to reaffirm that I wasn't in fact gonna die. And I just started to hammering it in. So when it came to the day of Olympic trials, I I ended up losing in the finals the best two out of three. And I was not prepared to lose. I I I hadn't forecasted that. I I was so completely shocked. And and when I went back and I was sitting on my bed in my uh house, I just started to get depressed. And I was like, my God, I would look in the mirror and I wouldn't see first in the nation. I would see second loser. And I was like, okay, like this was starting to really sink in. I was really, I was so all I knew was Sally the wrestler. I didn't know any other identity. And so what do you do when you start to fall into a depression with an identity crisis? You just add one more to the mix. So I decided that I was gonna go to the armor recruiter and I asked for the toughest job a woman could have right off the street. And he was like, You're in luck. We got two jobs for you. And I was like, really? He was like, Yeah. And I said, Okay, well, I I wanna, I wanna volunteer, I want to go to Afghanistan. There's something in me I need to resolve. I can't figure it out, and I think it's gonna be helpful if I do it in the war zone. He was like, Great. Um, both of these um have selections, so I don't know. Like, are you fit enough? Will you pass them? And I looked at him with true sincerity and I was like, I don't know, man. I don't know how good I am. And he was like, Well, just train up, okay? Like, you don't you don't want to come into this unprepared. I was like, story of my fucking life, man. And so that this instructor, like the recruiter, had teed me up. And I started to go through. I'm 30 years old, I have a master's degree, I have a couple world medals. I don't tell anyone anything about me because I think I am this washed up loser of a hag, and I just can't even get my bearings. And something starts to happen when I'm there, and I'm like, I'm Getting, I'm, I'm gaining weight. Like, I'm gaining an obscene amount of weight. Like, how much, how much sodium is in that food? And like, and I'm starting to ask him, I'm like, hey, are we gonna work out? And there was during one of my trainings. Um, I did, I went up to the drill instructor, I went up to the instructor of the course, and I said, Um, excuse me, there's a track outside, like, and we're just kind of sitting around cleaning our weapons. Do you think I can go out there and run for a little bit? I think I need like three, three miles to get my mind right. He was like, What do you think this is? You're training for SEAL team six. And I was like, You mean there's something more difficult than what we're doing now? Because I want to go on that pathway. And he was like, Oh, okay. And that just started to get the ball rolling of me just really not fitting in into the conventional forces and um realizing that there is a there's an incredible need for conventional forces and they have a particular skill set and a mindset that I absolutely appreciate because I don't understand it. And probably equally they just don't understand my mindset. And so when I had an opportunity to go towards that pathway of special operations, I was like, yeah, man. And they were like, hey, and people would give me, um, people would give me pointers like, hey, they're gonna be crazy. Um, you're gonna probably feel unsafe because they're chaotic. And everything they were saying was actually describing me, and I was like, excellent. And so I was really looking forward to this future journey that I was gonna be embarking on.
SPEAKER_00:My people have arrived.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god, yeah. I I wanna I want to hit on that. Everybody, there is a difference, and it's not to say one's better than the other, but it you feel better when you're around people that are on the same wavelength as you. It's so different to see people that are excited to go into an office and hammer out emails and high five when they go to Chili's for lunch. Like, I would it's not it's not for me. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's it's not the place and it's not the environment. And I I'm glad that that's not where you went or the path that that was put in front of you because probably wouldn't be talking. It would be very different life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So how long before you were able to actually go to selection?
SPEAKER_01:So I went on a I went on an interesting pathway. I went to SIA, psychological operations. I got in, I got in quickly, and it was like I was one of the handful of women, and I I enjoyed that space because I I was able to work with um men that were of like it was just I had a familiarity with it. And in terms of the women, they were all very strong and competent, capable. And it was like I was hanging out with women that I had used to wrestle with, the same mindset and that same drive and desire. Really, I really liked it. I had a lot of fun. And as soon as I came out of, as soon as I had the ability, they were like, hey, we're going to Afghanistan. Do we have any volunteers? And I was like, wing, and I shot my hand up. They were looking around and I was like, I don't think they're gonna see me. So I'm standing on a chair jumping up and down, like, please, like, this is like God calling me forward. Like, I desperately want to go on this deployment and just see what is out there and what am I capable of? And and for me, it wasn't about the skill sets of doing XYZ. For me, it was like, I want to go into a place where I'm gonna feel the same anxiety that I would feel before I was wrestling in the semifinals of a world championships, and I want to understand what that is and how do I control it. And it was such a like a specialty feeling that only comes when you start to get triggered at a level that most people don't even get to that depth of. And I did find it to be funny in hindsight that I had to go to a war zone to like really dial it in.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, 100% true. Everybody chases Friday night lights, and that's like the only place you're gonna get it after you leave. Everybody that gets into soft is an athlete by and large, and everybody's chasing that same feeling that they had at some point, whether you know your best years as an athlete were only in high school or your junior college or in college. When you throw your kid on and you're going in on, you know, getting ready, you're doing PCs, PCIs, rehearsals, getting ready to go out the door, and you finally start loading up in the CH 47 or Blackhawk or God forbid Afghan air, and you get in there, that's the game ready mentality. And that's a that's a high, that's a feeling, that's a that's a mental space that you know you only get in that environment. And it's it's hard to explain to people like why you love it so much, why why do you miss it? And you talk so openly and romantically about it because man, it's the the closest thing to playing the Super Bowl for a lot of us. It's the the greatest feeling, and we do get in that point where it becomes a drug. Everybody understands a feeling of like I live for deployment. I get back and it's like I'm with my family, or you know, train-ups and everything, but you're constantly chasing that deployment vibe. When you finally got it, did you did you feel that it was akin to the feeling you had when you got on the mat when you were wrestling? Or was it a little bit different?
SPEAKER_01:It was it was different. And I've been I've spent a lot of time, time trying to dissect the difference of it. But when it came to my time on deployment, I was it was almost like I was I was uh fearless. People would be like, hey, we need a volunteer that wants to go do this. I'd be like, woo me, I would say yes to everything. And not only was I saying yes to everything, like when I would be in my kit for as strong as I was, I would look in the mirror and perhaps my body dysmorphia is playing a role, but I would be like, Oh, I'm so small. I would go to the gym and I would just be like, like throwing weight up because I wanted to be as Hercules as possible. And that was actually a really good lesson for me to learn that I could lift a whole bunch of weight and I was just was never gonna get ginormous. So I apologized to Patrick Forkowski, my strength and conditioning coach, who for at least nine years I would call out that I wasn't lifting weights because I was gonna get big and bulky. And now I had the opportunity, I was proving him right, and I was like, oh god. Um so, so in that particular on that deployment, I was so fearless and and I couldn't feel like I couldn't feel much, and I wasn't sure what was going on or why I couldn't feel much, but that that very specialized feeling that I wanted to try and control, I couldn't tap into it. And because I couldn't tap into it, they'd be like, hey, we need a volunteer. I was like, woo, you got me. Like, I actually I felt like I had acquired a superpower. And I made a decision to use my powers for good and not evil. So I would go into spaces that would be historically hard for me, that might be um like really emotional, or there's things that you would see that maybe you wouldn't gonna process. I couldn't feel any of it. So I would go in and I would go on those missions and I'd be like, let's roll. And I would hang out with and and I like there would be times when I had a female interpreter and we would talk to the women and and we would collect atmospherics, and the women would be very nervous and upset and emotional. And I would try so hard to get on their level, and I simply couldn't do it. I I but I still had care and concern. So it was like it it felt like a superpower and that I I didn't really um feel empathy as deeply as as perhaps others would have, if at all. Um, but I still wanted to, out of being a genuine good person, have care and concern with them so that I could treat them with the loving kindness of what America should be known for across the globe.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, dude, that's um that's remarkable that you had that much insight and were able to be like self-aware. Like, like I say, a lot of us are only able to tap into it and when we reflect back to like how we were on deployment or the things that got us through deployment and that mentality. But to have that awareness while you're there and to realize like the added value that is, that's that's a great gift. That is, yeah, that's a superpower.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_01:And and and my and my deployment, I I really enjoyed it. I mean, there's there's individuals who, you know, you have to go to your VA testing, you're going to do this, you're going to do that, and they're like, Yeah, PTSD. And I was like, I think I should have, but I don't. And I don't understand why yet. And so it's like there was still something there that I wasn't processing. So I was like, no, I'm good. They're like, what do you mean you're good? Like, we've done all these things. And I'm like, I don't know. I just kind of want a popsicle, maybe a hamburger, and I'm gonna go to sleep. Like, I just wasn't feeling any of it. And uh and and while I was on deployment, actually, I I crossed paths with a really fabulous general officer, General Funk. And he he was we we had a great conversation about what my past life was and wrestling, and he signed my papers for me to go back and wrestle for the Army's World Class Athlete program. And I was like it and sorry, and I wasn't even sure if I wanted to wrestle again, but I wanted to figure out that feeling that I couldn't feel, and it I went to a war zone and I didn't I didn't feel it. So I thought, well, I'm gonna come back and wrestle for the Army's World Class Athlete program. So I made that decision that I was gonna do that, and and the paperwork got submitted. And when I was out on patrol, uh we were, I was with a with the group and I had my female interpreter, and one of the guys was like, Hey, we look at that over to the left, and I look over, and there was like a gaggle of girls, like girls that you and I would see walking around in the United States, like t-shirts, shorts, like their hair was short and all like crazy and covered in dust. And one of them had a stick and they were clearly out there playing a game. And I was like, Why is that so weird? And one of the guys said, Well, we normally get like boys following us around that want soccer balls and candy. And I was like, Oh, and I just like the idea came to me that this could have been the first time they ever saw a woman in a leadership position, um, or even in uniform, like depending on what their touch point is with coalition forces. So I look over and I smile at the girls and they came running over and they would tuck their thumb to my thumb like this, and I'd be giving them all these little high fives. And I just thought, wow, that that really like I could feel that, and that felt good to me. And up until that point, I thought I wanted to go CIA and like or work an agency and do some like crazy thing that I probably would have been amazing at. But I was like, wait a minute, there's something that feels good here, and and I kind of wanted to start chasing that. Like, I want to, I want to recreate that feeling again. So when I when I came back, um I I started wrestling and I was sitting in the sauna, and that was like where all the good wrestling ideas come from is when we're in the sauna and we're thinking about what? War, violence, world domination. I was like, I think I'm gonna start a nonprofit organization. And it goes quiet because they're like, You mean like you're not gonna make money? And I was like, no, I like it when I do it for the good of the people. And they were like, what is wrong with you? Like at this point, people are like, hey man, you might want to go into like mental health services because you're now talking crazy. Like now, Sally, you are talking crazy. Like none of that before was crazy, but this is now. And and it started to just evolve. I was I was at a wrestling tournament, and this girl was wrestling against a boy, and and after she beat him, she walked off this uh the mat. And the boy said something to her, and like there, like a situation ensued. The mom brought her over to me, and I was like, Hey, why are you crying? And she said, Well, I'm crying because I just beat that boy, and he said it didn't matter because I wrestled like a girl. I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute. I am a two-time World Bronze medalist, and I'm a girl, and you just beat this boy, and you're a girl, so it seems to me that if he wants to win, he should wrestle like a girl too. And and that actually became the name of the organization that we embraced, and it was very much like what we touched on earlier, which is that there was this framing and phrasing on what girls and women should or should not be. And I wanted to take it and it it was a negative connotation. I wanted to turn it on its head and really use it as a drive for empowerment.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's um I think a lot of people listening, uh, especially every girl dad out there that has their daughter in jujitsu or in wrestling, uh, they they definitely need that. They need a champion out there. It's it's a sport that you know should be accessible and should be open to anybody that wants to get in there. And you should be able to thrive and you should be able to go in there. And if you win, you win. If you lose, you lose. You get better. We need to remove that stigma of like, oh, you're I mean, like, it's all the way back to the the sandlot. You play ball like a girl. It's it's so deeply rooted. And it's funny, yeah. It's it's that that was a time period. But nowadays, you know, if a girl wants to get out there and wrestle and they want to be in jujitsu, then fucking amen, brother. Let them have a space, let them be in there. These are great sports, and it shouldn't be gatekeeped. There shouldn't be no gatekeeping or blocking by anybody. Um, and it's important to have nonprofits like yours out there because more importantly, when girls see you, they can see a version of themselves in the future, and that's what we need. That's a true like, man, there are a lot of influencers out there I don't want my kid to ever lay eyes on. Ever.
unknown:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:If they can see somebody like Sally that's been out there, that's come from a very hard place, that has this background of having come from adversity, developing that resilience and grit, yeah. I'd like to see that poster. I'd like to see that on my kid's wall. Like, that's what I want. And we need to promote that, man. Like, when you went into this headfirst, like, I have to imagine it wasn't easy and it can be very daunting. Or did you just jump into it the way Sally jumped into everything else, full of enthusiasm and ready to go?
SPEAKER_01:Totally. I did exactly that. I jumped into it. Well, I'll actually back up. So when I first when I first had the concept, and I was like, okay, wrestle like a girl, this needs to happen. I'm sitting in the sauna complaining about these things that are not happening on the landscape. But did I not just come back from a deployment? Am I not a leader? Do I not have agency and sovereignty? Why am I expecting someone else to fix a problem that I'm very capable of fixing myself and and stepping up to the plate? And so I really talked myself good into founding the organization. And then I had to sit with, oh my gosh, my background and my past is so gritty and it's so unpleasant that it could be weaponized and used against me. And so I did the first thing, which was called All My Teammates, Tell them I Built This Organization for them and they should be a CEO. And they all said, There's no way we're doing that. We have no desire. And so I had to sit with myself, and I was listening to Eminem, and I watched Eight Mile, and there was this one brilliant scene where he's on stage and starts rapping about himself and every terrible thing he'd ever done. So his opponent couldn't rap about him, and he owned it. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to own my past. And that was the beginning of this really rocky healing journey and also a really beautiful entrepreneurial journey because I wanted to be a person that that I could look at and say, you are a leader. And I would have never in my life called me a leader. It was Kale Sanderson, head coach from the um Penn State Wrestling, that was like, You're a great leader. And I was like, Whoa, Bucco, my name is Sally. I'm not a leader. He was like, Oh, you you are actually like you're you're leading a movement. And I was like, I see what you're saying. I just hadn't identified with that yet. So let me sit with this. And I had to start like really being like, oh man, if I'm a leader, I gotta do some things differently. And and I sat down and I thought, what are all the attributes of great leaders? And I would start writing them down and I would start looking up great leaders. And I had a very stunning realization that half the ones I liked had been assassinated. And so there was a there was a gravitas of what it meant to take on things that really put a target on your back because it was going against the way that society flowed and they don't really like things that stick out or say that I'm better than you. And and so I was looking at how do I develop myself into being a leader and in really embodying the values of leadership where I can live it as a daily testimony. And I was struggling. I was failing. I wasn't doing a very everyone hated me because I was way too aggressive. And and I think hate is strong, um, but some people it's probably accurately placed. Um, so I got a business coach and this really wonderful human who I've known for 17 years put his hands on my shoulders and said, May I mentor you in business? And I was like, sure. I I I said yes. And I'm still shocked to this day that I said yes, but that was a beautiful thing. And the first question he asked me was, Sally, what are all these dead bodies doing around you? And I thought, aha, I'm so glad you asked. They were wrong, they were wrong, they disagreed with me in public. And I just started telling him like why I was cutting the heads off of all of all of these people within my community that I I didn't I didn't um work well with. And he looked at me with true sincerity and said, Sally, you're doing this all wrong, you know. I said, What do you mean I'm doing it wrong? He said, Your job is to be getting alignment. And if you are killing people or sniping them from the towers, you're actually not getting alignment. You're you're not you're not adding to the population, you're not building the community. And I thought, my gosh, alignment. The only time anyone's ever talked to me about alignment is either with my back or my car. And it was always in competitive terms. And so I had to start really thinking about business and leadership and some of those things differently. But that got me started down a leadership path that was probably would have been beautiful if it happened 20 years earlier, but God had a plan and it's still unfolding.
SPEAKER_00:This episode is also brought to you by Precision Wellness Group. Getting your hormones optimized shouldn't be a difficult task. And Dr. Taylor Bosley has changed the game. Head on over to Precision Wellness Group.com, enroll, and become a patient today. Yeah, it's um I can tell you that the hardest thing anyone's gonna ever go through is that period of reflection on being a leader and having somebody that's willing to step in and help you understand the pitfalls and what you're doing wrong. That is somebody you should have around for the rest of your life. That is a great friend, that is a great mentor, because a lot of us don't get that, and and maybe we stumble upon somebody that can give us a little bit of insight, but man, a lot of us, a lot of us mess that up and we don't self-correct, and then that we continue down that path. Uh it's difficult. It is absolutely difficult, but it's it's uh it's something that happens a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it does. And and as my business continued to rise, I was rising with it, but I something started to feel off and I couldn't really put my finger on it. Um from the outside looking in, it lived it looked like I was living this perfect life. Um but But something something wasn't right. And I was I was married at the time and I was talking to my then husband and and we were having a conversation and we were sitting on a couch looking at each other and we said, Do you think this is love? We were both like, Ooh, I don't know. I'm like, this this could be love, right? Like, is this what love feels like? And we're like, I don't know. Like, we not neither of us had really known what love is. So we didn't know if this was or if it wasn't. And and so then I said, Okay, listen, I'm I'm I wanna go out and see if I can find love. And he was like, Good luck. He's like, I'll be here when you get back. And I was like, okay, so we're clearly really good friends. And so we get divorced, and I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna see if I can go find love. Like, what is that? Like, what does that feel like? What could that be like? And and I started dating this this guy, and I I fell in love with him. And I was like, oh man, this is kind of cool. Like, I I don't know what happened. I don't know why that happened. And then as soon as I felt love, I felt the complete opposite, which was fear of abandonment. I felt paralyzing fear. I felt um uh no sense of safety or security. And there was a tectonic shift that happened in my life, and that, and I don't know why that happened. And that was when someone said, Hey, you might want to explore psychedelic therapy. And I was like, I'll I'll give it a shot. Like, I don't know what's going on, but I'm I'm like, something's not right. I go into my first psychedelic experience, and in many ways, I wasn't raised with motherly love, fatherly love, faith, or religion. So it wasn't only my first psychedelic experience, it was probably my first spiritual experience. And I'm in that medicine, and there is a nuclear bomb that went off in me. And for me, it was psilocybin and five MEO DMT. I came out of that, yeah, like spinning. I I couldn't figure anything out. And and I started waking up in the middle of the night with PTSD, and I had night sweats, and I'm like, I don't know what's happened, but I've got emotions ripping through my body. I can't place them, I can't name them. And I got connected to a therapist, and I am showing up like I am really wanting to understand what's happening. And so I show up to my first therapy meeting. She's like, Well, what's going on? I'm like, I'm so glad you asked. I think I'm psychotic, I'm schizophrenic, I'm bipolar, I also have multiple personality disorder. I said I actually spent adequate time on WebMD, and I think I have every single thing. And she's like, Okay, well, before we go down the pathway of self-diagnosis, let's start talking about our emotions. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, come on, like, that's not what I talk about. She's like, that one actually might be the first thing we talk about before we go down the pathway of anything else.
SPEAKER_00:Here's your feelings wheel.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I got a feelings wheel. I got a feelings wheel.
SPEAKER_00:Same.
SPEAKER_01:So I am, I am sitting in with my therapist, and she's like, hey, have you thought about doing this medicine called Ibogaine? I was like, Ibogain? I've never even heard of it. She was like, I think it might help you because I I am like there is so much emotion that is coming out that at a certain point it was just, it was so overwhelming. And it was just, it was too much. I needed help, and I I I didn't even know where to go to get help. I had exhausted conventional therapy. Like I was doing all of that. I went to the VA to try and do medication. Like, I gotta stop crying. I have to be able to function. Um, I thought I went to the doctor, I was like, at certain, I was like, I clearly have brain tumors because I can't stop crying. And he's like, no, actually, you need glasses. And so it was good. I'm like fixing things, but I'm struggling with figuring out like what's going on. So I go into so I agree to go do Ibogain. I'm like, sure. Like it couldn't be any worse than where I just came from for the last nine months as I'm trying to really get all my emotions like sorted.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I'll tell you, I get down to the Ambio clinic. I'm 110 pounds. I am pale. I've got these like supermodel cheekbones that I've never had, and I'm like so skinny. And Trevor Miller, one of the owners of Ambio, one of the business partners. I see him. I have no idea who he is. And I see him, and I just I collapse into his arms. I'm like, I'm so exhausted. I don't know what's going on, but I I need help. And he was like, Oh, you've come to the right place. Like he was so cool about it. He was so cool that I was like this sickly, skinny woman that couldn't hardly stand. I had um my language had regressed. Like I was talking like an eighth-grade boy in junior high on a wrestling team, and I was just so messy and chaotic. So I I go and and we do all of our pre-ambio stuff, and then it's time to go sit in the medicine. And I'm like, I I'll tell you what, man, I'm so exhausted. I cannot wait for the medicine to kick in. I'm like, and I saw some of my peer group that had gone, they were nervous. I was like, oh man, I can't imagine what your life would be if this was nervous for you. My life was so challenging that I'm looking forward to whatever this is ahead because I know it couldn't be any more difficult than where I came from. And and I go in and I really have two questions for the medicine. Who am I and where am I? Like those two things are so profoundly confusing to me. So I go into the medicine and I and I get an opportunity to have an audience with God or the spirit source, whatever you want to call it. Like, I'm not talking to myself, I'm talking to someone that has my back. And I say, Who am I? And there is a mirror that comes floating up, and I'm looking at my face, and I'm like, who am I? Who am I? Who am I? And like, like as that's happening, the medicine is working on the back of my head and really working to, I've had so many concussions and head injuries, and you name it, that it's like I felt like there were these little bees that were like reconnecting the wires where they should have gone. And one of them was like, as I'm continuing to ask, who am I? They're figuring out where is where is the disconnection back here that she doesn't know who she is. And then I feel something happen, and I'm like, oh my God, I'm Sally. Like I have this epiphany that I'm Sally, and I'm like, oh my God, if I'm Sally, who's been driving the ship for the last 45 years? Like, who's been in control? I just realized who haven't been in control, guys. And I start to like really panic that who put me in charge of anything to be alive? Like I could, I couldn't handle it. And and the next scene that happens is that I'm I'm having a conversation with God. And I say, okay, if I'm Sally, then who's been driving this shit for the last 45 years? I don't know where she's at. Like, I'm really trying to be delicate with I've misplaced a child. And instantaneously, I get transported to um this black door, and this wave of remembrance happens. And I was like, oh my gosh. When I was five years old, I was playing in my front yard and I got abducted by a stranger and raped. And the aftermath of that was that they didn't find the pedophile that had abducted me. My brother and I had to go into a witness protection program until my mother was able to make different arrangements and we had to move and relocate. And I had completely forgot any of that happened. So when I am in Ambio, I'm in the Eibogain, it is so retrieval. I didn't know that I was supposed to go back in and pull the spirit of that five-year-old little girl out of the broiler room where she had been hidden for 40, at that time, 39 years. And I remembered like as I'm in that, in that medicine, and I'm having this beautiful recollection and I'm having this remembrance, and I get woven in with this inner child that I first feel sad that I forgot that that incident even happened. I didn't know I was supposed to go back for her. I thought someone else was supposed to help me, and none of that was happening. And then I got to do it all by myself, and I felt so powerful and so profoundly proud. And so when when I had an audience with God, he said, Well, what else do you want to go do? Like you can explore the history of the universe. Do aliens exist? Whatever. I don't know. I said, Man, for 39 years, this little girl has never been picked. And I want 12 hours to hang out with her. And I, for the next 12 hours, hung out with this incredible rapture of love, in this incredible rapture of love with my inner five-year-old little kid that I didn't know was lost, I didn't know was missing. She likes Cheetos and we talk a lot. And and I've got I got an opportunity to reconnect. And now that like out now that I'm on the outside of Ibogain, I was like, okay, how do I keep this going? And there was some fundamental things that I had to understand. And and one of them for me was I I went to SAW, Save a Warrior. And it is it is a program that allows you to have a conversation with yourself without fear of judgment, embarrassment, or for me, most abandoned, um, most importantly, abandonment. Like I was terrified of being abandoned. I wouldn't tell people who, like, well, I didn't really understand my emotions, but if they would have asked me, I wouldn't have told them how I felt because I was so sh I was so afraid of letting people in. And it all came back to this very challenging root cause that um I do have like in interestingly, um, that incident of my rape and abduction, it created the exact woman who's sitting here now, that is now a leader of a movement that knows who she is, that's figured all these things out. And it has been nothing but hurdles. And I sit back and think, man, I'm so proud of myself because I had to overcome so much. And so many people in this world have to overcome so much. Like we are successful despite people's health, not because of it. And and at a certain point, um, I was able to recognize that I was an adult child of an alcoholic and dysfunctional family with narcissistic tendencies. And the narcissistic tendencies were part of this wall that I built around this little five-year-old ego so that I could get what I needed to survive. And the beauty of where I'm at now is that I get to raise this little five-year-old girl with all the unconditional love and support and and hope that she needs in order to be able to like really continue to integrate. And that for me has been the power of psychedelic medicine. It's it's that uh I am I have become sovereign. I have full agency, I can speak for myself. I don't need anyone to speak for me. They probably should never speak for me, also, because you never know what's gonna come out. But um really, I feel like now I feel like I'm walking the walk, talking the talk. When before I felt like I was a shell of a person who was walking the walk, talking the talk, but I couldn't feel it. And to have that all woven together now, I feel like this is where the magic gets made in life. So I do think I'm lucky. I think how many people front-load all of their trauma into the first 45 years of their life. So the next 45 years are like, hey, home free, baby, I am gonna just enjoy this and have fun and love it because I've already endured. I don't need to endure anymore. I've made it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I understand and I feel that sentiment. Um, it's one thing to advocate for it. It's one thing to talk about access and promote resources, but when you finally take that step forward and you experience it, it is nothing less than life-changing. It is absolutely groundbreaking and it's the most sacred medicine. Um, I I tell people, go educate yourself, read books. That's the avenue approach I took. I read, I had to understand it myself because I grew up during the dare uh generation. I grew up thinking that these things were powerful drugs that were gonna hurt you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it was the most beautiful and gentle experience of my life that I needed before I became a father. And I'm so glad that that's the way it unraveled for me because it gave me the confidence and understanding. And I share with it all the time when I talk about this. You had my intentions. I went in there and it's like, cool, that's awesome. I let me take that. All right. Yeah, we're gonna talk about this. I want to show you this. This is what you need to see to be be ready to be a father. And that that's the most beautiful thing. And you really are interacting with something outside of our lived experience. What we encounter on that in that journey is completely from it it's it's nothing short than a miraculous journey. And if you're listening and you're on the fence, I'm telling you, do your research. Plenty of organizations out there, I'll throw one out for you. Special Forces Foundation, reach out, we'll connect you, we'll get you to people. Um it needs to be explored by more veterans, more people that like us, like to have these dark and painful moments in childhood, because like many of us, I same thing. I took a lot of pain and and and uh sad situations and just shove it down in the in the rugsack and we won't talk about it. We'll just keep moving forward. But at some point, you gotta talk about it, you gotta experience, you gotta let it out. It's like treating a wound. You don't just cover it up with a band-aid. No, you gotta irrigate it, you gotta wash it, you gotta, it's gonna be painful, it's gonna hurt. You gotta clear it out, air it out, and then check on it. And then re-reapply a new bandage and then check on it some more until it finally heals. But it's um sadly, there's still a lot of people that are uneducated. There's but there's a lot of people fighting for it. There's a lot of people right now going to Capitol Hill, going to Washington, making lots of headway. Hell, we just had a big Netflix documentary uh in War and Waves that just came out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. In Waves and War.
SPEAKER_00:In Waves and War, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I actually I I was just this past Saturday in in Coronado for Vets, Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions for their annual benefit. And it was it was beautiful. Way in Waves and War was a focused documentary. They had some of the people that were involved with that documentary that that um were in attendance, and some of them spoke and presented some of the material. In addition, some of the individuals that I met when I was at my Iboggain experience were in the crowd. And it was really fun for me to see them see me because the first time they saw me, I was just this very skinny, sickly human. And now I've I'm just with full of life, full of vigor. And and it's meaningful for me to show up to places because I think when you care about things, you show up for them. Like you put eyes on them, you put ears on them, you put your hands on them, you show up. And and that is what the Ibogain community has been for me. Like the people that have had these pivotal, powerful experiences and get to come out the other side. Those are the people I want to be with. I love being in spaces where warriors are healing and they're thinking and evolving and growing and going in there and looking at their wounds and opening them up and and and really working to clean them out on their own terms. I I think that's a very powerful and very strong position to take. And I think there's many different types of courage, there's many different types of strength, but to be able to really reach your hand into a wound and and start to pull out whatever that infection is. I mean, that is some absolute cowboy stuff because I don't see it happening unless you have a desire to get to the other side, because the only way is through it. Yeah. And and I'm quite proud to share with you that I'm an ambassador for Americans for Ibogain, where I get to talk about this medicine to really anyone that listens, and and I get to share how important that medicine has been and and how I'm grateful for the first 45 years of my life. And the next 45 years are going to be beautiful because I've been given the the divine power of plant medicine that helped me reconcile some pretty hard things and and also some some easy things that I probably should have not needed help with, but because I was so um unable to manage, I needed help with all of it, the big things and the little things.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, Sally, lucky for you, I produce several other shows and I'd love to get you on two of them. Uh so I'll have to show you and share with you the information because uh you you you cover a lot of different things that just apply to so many different areas and so many different audiences. Um, and you really are a good steward for the medicine, a good ambassador for it, because a lot of people don't realize that you can be incredibly successful in life, and you can have all the medals, and you can do all these great things, and you can still be suffering and dealing with a lot. I always tell people the the ones you have to look out for the most are the guys that are championing everybody else. The guys are out there taking care of everybody, making sure everybody else's cups are filled, and volunteering here and volunteering over there. That's the individual you gotta watch out for. The hyper focused, the the ones that are juggling 15 different things. It's not always about looking out for the one that's quietly out in the corner. You gotta look out for everybody. Most importantly, if you have a friend that's just always taking care of everybody, check on them, ask them if they need help, and be willing to share information about psychedelics. Be willing to bring that out. That's one thing that I recommend to every veteran of GWAT. Look, regardless of your deployment record, regardless of the job you took on, for a vast majority of us from my experience, from this show alone, from what I've been able to see, the people that answer the call, those that are willing to serve, are often dealing with a lot. And if you've identified with that, please be willing to check out this medicine. It's it's for you. It's um you're truly connecting with something powerful. It brought me back. I mean that that one experience at 5MEO DMT, and I'm very I'm I'm a very big I'm a big believer in understanding that you shouldn't chase the medicine. You can have a profound experience, it can be life-changing, honor it and do the work. Don't just think it's an easy button and say, ah, I'll go back to Mexico for another top-off. No, no, no. You need it, absolutely. But the reality is you you're given a gift, an experience that's really life-changing. Keep working. It's important to understand that it's not an easy button, it's not a wand. I think one of one of my uh the greatest greatest uh uh people that I met that can champion that idea, it's you, Clinton. Uh, when you were on the show, you you know we had a friend come on, another seventh group guy, and he talked about it. He chased a lot of medicine, and then finally he got to a point where the medicine didn't show him anything else. And he's like, Oh, oh I'm in on easy mode. I gotta do the work, and that's a reality. Since your journey, since your experience, what have you been doing? In your day-to-day life to keep things right, to stay on track.
SPEAKER_01:I I do breath work, so I love breathing, and I find that to be really helpful because I my emotions still kind of get sticky inside of me. I do meditation. Um, I enjoy that. And I am I am committed to attending adult child anonymous classes twice a week, where I actually have a workbook and I go through and I list out these crazy things that have happened to me when I was younger. How did I manifest and interpret that and and how do I bring it into my adult life? And what would it look like if I didn't do those things? And and for me, coming going from Ibogain right into Save a Warrior, right into adult child anonymous classes, uh nothing else was getting through because it couldn't get through this permeated wall that I had, it couldn't permeate the wall that I had built up. I needed that much help. It's because I'm strong, I do agree with you. That is fabulous. But at a certain point, I'm like, I can't even, I want this, and I can't even get through to my own self. Like I have done too good of a job building up these walls. So those are the main three things that I did and and that I'm continuing to do. And and the other thing, and man, this is so tough for me, but being social, that is, and like really looking at people and listening to them and truly being engaged with them, that's a skill set. And I can do about two hours a day. And so I'll be like, okay, I'm gonna try and engage today for two hours and 15 minutes. And I just try and creep that dial up so that I can spend more time with people that I do love and I care about and I want to hear what they're having to say. I just I get so exhausted from having to feel emotions and and understanding how to navigate that. And and I actually want to be a good friend. So previously, before I went to Idle Game, um, I would call, I had friends on my speed dial and I would say, Hey, um, so and so's pregnant. Do you think she's happy or sad? Because I knew I had to make a phone call. Like, I how do I handle that? Um and so I'd be like, Hey, so and so's pregnant. Do you think she's happy or sad? And they're like, Oh, she's happy. I was like, ooh, she's happy? They're like, Yeah, she's happy. I was like, okay. Like on a scale of one to ten, how happy is she? And she's like, she's a six. She's a six, happy about being pregnant? They're like, Yeah. I was like, okay. So I pick up the phone, I'm like, hey, girl. Like, I I just had to honor like the the six, like the level six and and the joy that she was. And I needed someone else to help me get there because I wasn't gonna see it on my own. And now I have this goal that I want to be able to hold space for anybody. It is the women that have come from the neglected frames of society that have had to absolutely endure some challenging and horrific things, quite frankly. And there's no safe place for women to truly show their anger so that they can release it, have confession. And I want to get to a point where I'm strong enough that I'm able to sit there with people that are really fing angry about whatever's happened to them in life. And I can sit there and bear witness because when you can bear witness on someone else's pain without passing fear of shame or judgment or abandonment, that is one of the most healing things that you can provide another human. And it's also the most challenging thing to get if you're a strong, competent, capable woman, because we terrify people. And for good reason, we had to learn how to endure and survive in these challenging circumstances. And I'm not gonna be upset at that five-year-old Sally who managed to get me all the way to 39 years old, like pretty intact, okay. But I mean, there were some things we can fine-tune, but I'm not ever gonna shame her for that. I'm absolutely praising her and I'm saying thank you. And you can you can rest, heal, and recover now because I'm an adult and I have it from here. And I get to make a cognizant choice on how I live every day. So, for instance, um, I went to uh an event in MCON. I went to the MCON event in 2025 and that was in Las Vegas. And when I'm in Las Vegas, I was like, before my plane landed, I was like, what is my job? What am I gonna do these next three days in Las Vegas? And I was like, I'm gonna have a growth mindset, I'm gonna have a positive mental attitude. I don't care what else happens, if I can win those, if each of those days I can remain focused against all odds, then that's gonna be a win. And I would, I would do it like I'm walking down the street and I see like a car cut someone else off, and I'm like, ooh, I bet they're on the way to their hospital. I get it. It was so inflated and so um toxically positive, but it's what my brain needed because I'm trying to get these new neural networks going. And and I would find like, and or I would see someone riding a bicycle and they kind of cut me a little bit too close, and I wanted to say something, and I'm like, ooh, don't say anything. Like, it's okay if you fall off your bike, or it's okay if you lose your balance in this mental gain process, but you have to get back on it. And so I just started coaching myself up to becoming joyful and positive. And I'm really proud to say that after three days, I was so exhausted, but I did it. I maintained my joyful outlook and disposition. And my friends were like, hey, it's Friday night. We're in Las Vegas, we got tickets to a show. Do you want to go? And I was like, no, I am so exhausted. You know how nice I was for three days. I was like oozing nicest. I was oozing kindness, and I'm so grateful I did that. And I can't mess up my win streak, so I'm just gonna put myself to bed. And and I have had to really gamify how I live life so that I could make joy just as much fun as and it like in the winning spectrum, where before I didn't care if I had joy, I just wanted to win. Win or lose, I was gonna win. And and I've had to start to restructure um how the game is getting played, where it's like, I want to make sure that I'm living a life where I'm I feel loved and I can love others. I'm including um like things that are meaningful to me, deeply meaningful, into the way I do business. Perhaps I used to worship the gods of power, of money, of war, and now I'm I'm bringing that all inward and I'm really driving sovereignty so that when I make decisions, they're logical, they're rational, they're in the best interest of myself and others, versus it was always just about me. Like that says as an athlete. What do I need to win? And so I've started to really reframe and reshape. And someone asked me, Do you think of yourself as a feminist? And I thought, I really think of myself as a matriarch. I want everyone sitting at my table to eat, be fed healthy, nutritious food. I want to see them, I want to hear them, I want them to know if they're at my table, I'm taking care of them. And I want to move to a different evolution of what it means to be a strong woman and how do we take care of others? How do we open doors for others? How do we make sure that our brothers and sisters are taken care of? And that is a higher level thinking for me in terms of how I'm structuring and organizing my life.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That's powerful because, you know, for a long time it was all about how to survive, how to make it through another day, and now you're here. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yeah. And and I will say too, like I still tell the girls, because I recognize that depending on where you're at or or um not everyone comes from the same starting point. And and there is this incredible need to help people understand how to survive, how to own their space, their voice, their body. I think wrestling absolutely is the tool for that. And you get these girls and boys through through their first 40 years of whatever they've had to do to be able to endure or however long it takes. And then when they get the opportunity for true healing, they can resolve that and continue to lead from a position of strength where love is the driver. And that is like being on rocket boosters, but you have to run out of all the other jet fuel and get completely exhausted before you can get to that point where you're like, I had no idea life could be so dang good.
SPEAKER_00:And it can be, it just takes a little bit of work and uh some uh psychedelics.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. And and I would say too, like, I I went and did a whole bunch of different therapy. The psychedelics was the game changer, and it had to be the right combination. You know, when you're wanting to win an Olympic medal, it's you don't just go to a nutritionist, you don't just go to physiotherapy. You you go to five different specialists that all dial in something. And to me, that's a little bit how plant medicine um, how I think about it. This one does this thing, this one does this thing, this one does this thing, and and as it calls me, and I'm willing to explore, like I'm finding that there's something getting cleaned out because uh I've been caring a lot for a lot of people, including myself. And it's gonna take more than just one queen of the house to get everything good. And and it's and because I I know that, um I've made it a joyful process and I bring others along with me. And I I think truly, you don't truly, truly heal until you come back for others.
SPEAKER_00:I say that all the time. Once you get to about 70% in your journey, be willing to turn around, look into the void, reach in and help somebody else. It's like in the military crawl, walk, and run, and when you really, really start learning whatever you're teaching, you only start learning and start mastering your craft when you start teaching. And that's what we need everybody to do. And and when it comes to veteran support, community outreach, and peer-to-peer support. We need you guys in the fight. We need you to be willing to turn around, help your battle buddy out. I hate that term, but hey, it resonates with people. Look after each other, turn around and help the next person get to where you're at. Um, I know for me, it was when I got into mindfulness. I didn't just leave it as a hobby or a nicety. I became certified. Started coaching and teaching people how to do it because all you need is a place to sit down and focusing on your breath. That's it. You don't have to go to a VA appointment, you don't have to spend money on anything. And for a lot of veterans, a lot of active duty service members, that's a great place to start with the colour. I I wish our military and our government were at a place where we could start getting guys and gals into plant medicine while they're still in. But that's not where we're at right now. Right now, I'm telling you, if you're looking for a place to start, look into mindfulness, look into meditation, because all it takes is clearing out some space in your in your office, in your home, or hell, even in your car. Close your eyes and start breathing. Anybody can do that. Sally, I can't thank you enough for being here today. If people want to connect with you, where can it go?
SPEAKER_01:We have our website, wrestle likeagirl.org. We also have our social media platforms for WrestleLike a girl. I have a uh Instagram page. So, people, you guys are more than welcome to reach out for any of the topics. I I've lived a five so far, I've had many different chapters in my book of life, and it's gonna continue to get varied because I like to take these courageous leaps and try new things and see what happens. And so I would love if anyone wanted to reach out and chat about any of that.
SPEAKER_00:Heck yeah. So please do me a favor, guys, pause, go to the episode description, you know, the spiel, you know, the show's almost over. Just do that for me. I'll wait. All right, click on those links, and even better, I have another challenge for you. Right now, just uh scan this QR code right here. Support the Special Forces Foundations, connect individuals like myself or Sally to plant medicine. You can do that. You can scan the QR code, you can donate money today to help a Green Beret or their family member get access to care. They so damn earned, they deserve it. And there's nobody out there doing a better job than the Special Forces Foundation. So please do me a favor, scan that QR code and donate today. I would greatly appreciate it, and I'm sure Sally would too. But uh, do me a favor, also click on those links to wrestle like a girl and support them and their mission. Sally, thank you so much for being here, and thank you for being a great advocate and a steward of this amazing medicine. Uh, like I said earlier, I can't wait to have you on some other shows. I'm gonna plug them in and uh get you connected because uh your message and your voice needs to be heard and we need to spread it far and wide. Thank you all for tuning in. We'll see you all next time. Till then, take care.
