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Faith, Trauma & Brotherhood: The Mighty Oaks Mission

• Deny Caballero • Season 7 • Episode 371

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In this powerful episode, Jeremy Stalnecker, co-founder of the Mighty Oaks Foundation, shares how faith and community can guide veterans and first responders through trauma, recovery, and rediscovery of purpose. From his own military transition to building a nationally recognized healing program, Jeremy discusses mental health, resilience, and the role faith plays in breaking isolation and fostering hope.

 

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SPEAKER_01:

Securedob Podcast is proudly sponsored by Titan's Arms. Head up an episode description and check out Titan's Arms today. Jerry Stallnecker, welcome to SecureDob Podcast. How's it going, sir? Good, man. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. Absolutely, man. One of the greatest things that anybody in this advocacy space can have or experience is when they have a friend or a veteran they're reaching out to that finally comes up to them and says, Hey, I'm ready to get help. I'm serious about changing, turning over a new leaf. I need to go somewhere. And I have somebody and they're going to get me to Mighty Oaks or any of the other inpatient places. And man, it is such a good feeling to see because you and I both know you can't force somebody to get better. You can do everything you can to influence and uh share your own journey. But when somebody finally finds it in them, they just want to be able to celebrate and be exactly just there supporting them all the way through. And you guys have been helping a lot of people. So today, my man, I want to dive into your story and uh find out how you guys started this whole thing and uh where it's headed.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I appreciate it. So um probably not an atypical story. I decided when I was early in my life, I was a teenager that I wanted to enlist in the Marine Corps. And uh I say not atypical, right? Like for Marines, that's typical, maybe not for the rest of the world, but um yeah, I had some influences in my life growing up that really kind of turned my my attention, my heart, my mind toward military service. And uh, you know, I grew up in an area, it's kind of funny. I was thinking about this the other day. I grew up in an area with a lot of retired people, and so I got to know a lot of older people, and that was probably unusual, but I got to know several um World War II veterans through my grandfather, my grandparents, my grandfather had served. And so, you know, I grew up kind of hearing these stories, and then you know, man, as a kid, you're like, I want to do that. I want to be a part of something like that. And so uh decided early on to enlist in the Marine Corps. My parents said, look, you can do whatever you want, but you're gonna go to college first. And um, so I ended up in a commissioning program. I was commissioned as a second lieutenant. Um uh eventually ended up with 1st Battalion, 5th Marines based out of Camp Pendleton here in Southern California, and uh did a bunch of stuff. I mean, it was my life had been pointed toward that. It was like living a dream, and and it was amazing that it all came together. And then kind of the one piece of the dream that didn't come together was the combat piece, and um eventually it did. Uh January of 2003, uh 1-5, you know, 1st Battalion, 5th Marines along with the rest of the division, 1st Marine Division deployed to Kuwait. Um, we sat in Kuwait for a couple of months, and then March 19th, um, 1st Battalion, 5th Marines, my battalion, along with 7th Marines and the 3rd Infantry Division of the Army and other assets, of course, breached the berm and went into the southern part of the country. Um, and then made our way to Baghdad, April 10th of 2003, with the Battle of Baghdad. That was our battalion, and just a crazy fight there. And anyone that's familiar with that, um just a just a crazy, crazy couple of days. Uh, but that was my really my last firefight. We stayed in the country for a while after that, but that was the last big fight that I was a part of. Retrograded back, eventually made our way back home. And uh a month later, I was out of the Marine Corps. I had already made the decision to leave. Wow. Uh so stepped foot at uh on March, now it's Air Reserve base, but March Air Force Base at the time when we got home, and uh 30 days later, I was out of the Marine Corps. And so I went through this transition, and you know, my story is I had been hired by the church that I was attending. So I went on staff at the church, and um I don't have a Bible degree or anything like that, but um the pastor at the time said, hey, we could really use someone to oversee projects and and you know, just provide general leadership, right? And I know you can do that. And so um, yeah, man, I was leading Marines in combat. 30 days later, I'm on a church staff losing my mind, and uh I was uh I did not handle that transition well at all. Um, you know, I always talk about how if you come from the infantry community and you had a you have a problem with a coworker, right? You close the door, you scream at each other, and then someone's gonna stop fighting, and that person loses. Like it's super easy to understand how this works, right? Um, and I took that on to like a church staff where I would just, you know, say what I thought needed to be said and ridicule people if that's what I needed to do to get what I needed done. And then I got asked to leave staff meetings, and um, yeah, I was a disaster. And then I started to get really frustrated. A lot of it was the separation thing, a lot of it was a loss of identity, all these issues we talk about, right? Um I I was out of church, but like completely lacked purpose, which sounds strange to say, at least to some people, but I was so clear on my mission and so clear on what I was there to do when I was in the Marine Corps, um, particularly in Iraq, and particularly the early days of Iraq. In 2003, people who served in Iraq after that don't really get the whole picture. There were very few rules of engagement. The whole purpose was to get from the southern part of Iraq to Baghdad. That was our goal. So whatever has to be done to do that, do that. Um, and if anyone gets in your way, you deal with that. So it was it was this super high functioning, you know, very kinetic environment. And then coming from that to now dealing with volunteers and dealing with people that I just didn't think were connected to the real world, and I struggled through that so badly at work, and then I took that home. I had a wife and two little kids, and uh took out all of my frustration, all of my anger, everything on them. Um typical kind of story we hear in the veteran community. Thankfully, I had the right people in my life at the time and um did have a good church community, had a good family, and a lot of good people were able to step in and get me back on track and and help me work through that. But in that process, I I came to the conclusion that I was the only one who was dealing with this, right? Like no one else struggles with that.

SPEAKER_01:

No one else is dealing with this. It's only me.

SPEAKER_00:

It's only me, right? So my wife hates me, and the people I'm working with don't know what they're talking about, and you know, I'm angry all the time, and I'm probably justified in it because they don't they don't know what I've been through, right? So I'm the only one who's dealt with this. Now, again, understanding context is important. 2003, no one was talking about post-traumatic stress, or very few people were. In fact, coming from the the infantry world, if you had a Marine that said anything about, hey, I've got PTSD or I'm struggling, right? Or whatever, it's just like, well, yeah, just deal with that. That's what we do. That's what we do here, right? Just deal with it. And there, there were no, there was nowhere to go. There was no outlet, there was no conversation about your struggles or your hurts or whatever, your hangups. And so I took that on too. I thought, well, if I'm hurting this way, I certainly can't let anyone know. I'm the only one who's dealing with this, I'm the only one who's dealt with this. And so as I was getting help with just kind of the people in my world, um, a big part of me being able to move forward was just putting distance between me and the military and thankful for my service. That's never stopped, always, you know, grateful for the opportunities that I had, but I couldn't talk about it anymore. I couldn't think about it anymore, I couldn't look over my shoulder anymore. And so I went 10 years without connecting with or talking to anyone that I had served with. Um, you know, I didn't hide that I had been in the Marine Corps or anything like that, but I just, you know, that was another life. That was something else that I did uh because it caused so much pain, like for me and for my family and for the other people in my life. So still kind of carrying that, like I'm the only one that's dealt with this. So 10 years later, um, one of the Marines I had served with reached out to me and he said, Hey, I met this guy. He's starting this organization called Mighty Oaks, and he would like to get some people together and he's trying to get it, get it moving. And so um I told him I'd reach out to you and reach out to some of the guys that we were in Iraq with. Would you would you come and hang out with us for a couple days? And um I said, sure. So um it's a crazy thing. A lot happened there. I met Chad Roboshow, who was him and his family were starting Mighty Oaks, and and uh that's when we became friends. That's when we started working together and building this thing out. But but what happened there, like as a catalyst, I was now sitting with you know a handful of the guys that I had served with. They were in my platoon, so I was their platoon commander in Iraq. Um, and they started telling me stories about these Marines that I knew that I had served with that that had been in my platoon or whatever. And and I started hearing stories of suicide, I started hearing stories of um broken marriages and just lives and disarray and all of these things that we would now look at and go, that's that's what we're targeted on, right? Like that's what we're trying to deal with as a veteran care community. Um, well, I didn't even know that world existed. And so I'm hearing about all this, and and it was like a light bulb went on in my head, and I went, like, I still have a responsibility. Before we deployed to you know, Kuwait, we were standing on the border, like the day before we went into Iraq, like all these moments where I would gather the Marines and say, I'm here for you, we're gonna do this together, I'm gonna take care of you, I'm gonna do everything I can, right? And I meant it. Well, then it was like I had this epiphany moment where I'm like, I used to believe that, and then I walked away from these guys. And and coming to the conclusion that the last time I put my uniform in the closet, that was not my end of active service. I still had an obligation to serve these guys. But part of that was going, oh, other people have struggled the same way. Other people have hurt the same way, but what I had was an advantage because I was already in a you know, a good marriage. I didn't, you know, I don't drink, I don't take drugs, so like I didn't go down that rabbit hole. Um, I had good church community around me, I had other good people around me. And these guys who who I you know would have died for uh didn't have that, and and many of them lost their lives and their livelihoods and their families in the process. So that was the genesis for me. Again, meeting Chad and Mighty Oaks was getting going. And uh, you know, he he's a four-three con Marine and super charismatic and could get people in a room. And I came from now, 10 years later, this ministry background where I had written stuff and and taught and taught others to teach. And so we put that together and um and just started building. That was in 2012. Um, so yeah, it's been it's been a crazy journey. Um back then we were you know like convincing our friends to come to this program because veterans are super cynical and and won't do anything, right? Um, but since then, you know, it's grown. We have about a thousand students a year come through our five-day program across the country. We have five locations across the country and um no cost to attend, no cost for travel. We have donors that have come alongside and made this possible. So uh things have changed a lot, but that was that was the beginning of it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, man, it it's it's important to reflect back on that that piece of your own journey, the the common humanity that we all forget. We all think we all think that the the struggle is within us. We're the only ones. It's it's only our pain, nobody else can be going through the same pain. Right. And if we're fortunate, we have the pillars of at of family and faith, right? And we're doing well and navigating, we forget about everybody else. That's right. And that's a that's a beautiful lesson in how important faith is because the guys that are deeply rooted in faith, at some point they come in the the journey of like, oh wait, there's this guy that I talk to a lot says that I should be out there talking to my brothers, recruiting them for this team. And I know in my own journey, everything finally clicked. All the everything came into full alignment when I came and started building that last pillar, that faith pillar. Yeah. And that's what I like about what you guys are doing in your program. Um, a lot of our brothers, a lot of our sisters, they're really hesitant to tap into faith. They're really hesitant to see that side of the battle. How have you guys, how have you been able to tap into that and help people with that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. That's a that's a big question. I think fundamentally, you know, for me, for Chad, and for you know, the folks who were part of Mighty Oaks early on, that was the missing piece, you know, what you just said about your own kind of journey. Everyone that we serve and everyone that we work with has access to VA care and clinical care and medications and therapies and all of the other things, but they they find down the road that there's still something missing. So when you think about, when you think about faith just broadly, right, and not a specific denomination or religion or understanding of faith, but just broadly, if if we don't have a belief that there is someone or something outside of us, outside of our space and time, we would use the word transcendent, right? That transcends what we're experiencing. If we don't believe that exists, then our entire existence is the world that we live in. It's how I feel right now, it's the people I have around me, it's my own experiences. Well, that is a hopeless situation because I'm only as good as I can be, I'm only as good as the resources that I have. There is no future, there is no hope, there is nothing outside of this, this is all there is. Well, if you go down that road, I mean you're gonna end up in a very dark place because if this is all there is, then you know, what's the purpose of continuing? And I think a lot of people come to that position. And so there has to be, first of all, an understanding of just faith generally. There's there's someone or something outside of my space and time. Um but for us, it has a very specific application. You know, we're Christians, and so we would say, well, God is that someone or something that transcended outside of space and time. He's the creator. And if he's the creator, then he has given us purpose. There is design. And what are we struggling for in our community coming out of the military or after a you know a very traumatic experience or experiences? What we're struggling for is an identity that's beyond the trauma, beyond the brokenness, beyond the hurt, beyond the uniform, beyond the service. Who am I and why am I here? Well, understanding who God is, understanding that God created us for a specific purpose to accomplish specific things, that gives us an identity in Him and His purpose for us, and then we can live out that purpose, and with that purpose comes hope. When I think of the pillars of resilience, we always talk about the four pillars, and people have added a fifth pillar, right? But as I think about the pillars of resilience, we're told that faith is one of those pillars. And I've started to think about it as if there are three pillars and faith is the foundation. So lay that pillar down on the ground. You have to have something that does not change. You have to. And on that foundation, a foundation of faith, a foundation of dependence on a God who doesn't change, who has a plan for you, who cares about you, who wants you to uh succeed in your life, on that foundation, faith, you can build the rest of your life because the ground underneath you is firm. So for us, how do we approach that? We don't pretend to be anything else. In fact, we're very upfront about you have access to clinical care, medication has a place, therapies and all these things, they have a place. But what's allowed us to grow and to move forward and to experience healing is a relationship with God, an understanding of faith. And so let us explain that. And so that's what we work through. You know, again, I I I believe that is the answer. You know, these soul wounds that we carry need a soul level solution, and that's a relationship with God. But so many people would come to us just as you mentioned a minute ago and say the missing piece is is that it's faith.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's become a very important thing. And uh it everybody has to come to that realization. Everybody has their own journey. And for me, the most important thing was you know, getting over that fear. Because for for a lot of us that are talking about this in podcasts and YouTube, it used to be one of those things where it's like, well, we don't talk about politics or faith. Right, right, right. Yeah, right, exactly. Yeah, it's it's very it's refreshing and it it kind of for me, it helps understand where we're at and what we're, you know, we kind of feel like we're winning. We're we're kind of pushing, you know, this back into the mainstream. When we have a successful program that's saving lives, and it's putting that at the forefront. It's not hiding it and saying, hey, we'll talk about God at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, right, right, right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah, let's lead with that instead of uh follow up with it. Right. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

Put it up front, let people know that it's okay to talk about faith. It's okay to say, hey, maybe, maybe it's time for me to dust off my Bible. Maybe it's okay for me to pull out the rosary, learn how to pray again.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and it comes to it comes to a place, and and to your point, we have to we I I guess it's a self-reflection thing, but we have to evaluate, am I really here to help people get well? Is that my goal? And if that's my goal, then I'm not going to hide whatever it is that has helped me get well, and that I've seen a lot of other people you know find healing in. And so I think that's where this conversation with faith has become more you know open or acceptable in the veteran care world because look, man, we're losing this battle. I mean, let's it's it's it's math. Like the numbers are not good around veteran suicide and around broken homes and around all of these issues that we talk about. And so we can continue to marginalize faith and marginalize the importance of connections and and this the kind of the soft skills, right? Like we can we can marginalize that as much as we want, but that's where real healing and hope and direction and restoration is happening. And so we we have to answer that question. Are we actually here to help people get well? We have had conversations recently, Mighty Oaks has and other faith-based organizations with the White House Faith Office, with the um leadership of the Veterans Administration. Uh, I was in DC two weeks ago on a panel for the VA, having this conversation. Why faith? What do faith communities and faith organizations, what do they have to offer? And so, you know, it is. It's becoming more of a let's let's actually talk about this because people need to understand how to connect with faith.

SPEAKER_01:

100%. I I I always reflect back on my journey when you look at the human being and the the pain and the trauma they went through. It's you put somebody in front of the camera to talk about what they went through and then and how they started to fall apart. You know, soft guys and and combat arms guys are really proud about the body. We do PT, we do hard stuff to get they get strong. Then we get injured. Yeah. And then that body can't be the thing that we can focus on. I can't run like the other guys. I can't do the things I used to do. I can't be that ultimate friggin' green beret, paratrooper, you know, mortarman. I can't do all those things. And then something happens. The mind, TBIs, blast exposure. Can't think like you used to. You're not quick, you're not you're not able to be that guy with the quick wit anymore. Mind, body are failing you. Then there's spirit. Vast majority of my friends, we didn't talk about faith. We didn't go to church together. We didn't have men's uh book club where we talked about the Bible or Bible study. We didn't have any of that. So when I went through my own journey and all that stuff fell apart, there was no faith foundation. It was just concrete failure, just absolute despair. Nothing to say, hey, look, there's somebody you can turn to. Meditate on the things that you still have in your life, the good that's still in your life. Nope. Just absolute emptiness and brokenness. And the guys that I saw that had similar situations, but did have that faith pillar, they didn't fall apart. Their family knew what they were doing every Sunday or Saturday. Hey, I'm gonna get through this. I'm gonna get through this with my family, I'm gonna get through this with my faith. I'm gonna rebuild these other pillars. They had something they could build back from through my throughout the stories that I've gathered on this podcast. I've seen the same things, I've seen the truth. The best of us, the guys that were able to navigate this the best, are the guys who are able to go to church, books on their family, and build themselves back up. And that's not lost on me. This this is pure, this is evidence, lived experience from the guys that were doing better in the team rooms. And there's something to be said. Now I'm reflecting back and sharing with people find your faith, find a way to connect with it while you're still in. God forbid you have injuries, God forbid you have those breaking points. You'll be tested, of course, undoubtedly. But you'll have more resilience than the guy like me that put a lot more emphasis on partying, on going to Red Door a little bit too much. You know, there's there's these things that we learn the hard way. This shouldn't be one of those things that we learn through hard lessons. And everybody has their own journey. But for you listening at home that are still in, that are still serving, find a way to build that pillar. Find a way to devote a little bit of time to explore that. And I get it, everybody has their own journey. Some of us come from homes where faith was a bad word. Figure it out for yourself. That's the one thing that nobody ever told me or gave me the wisdom of like, hey, figure this thing out. Don't drag all the historical data from your childhood. Yeah. Start bringing it up, start experiencing it for yourself. And uh man, I'm telling you, I've had some some rough days, I've had some rough nights, but uh, since I got back in to my faith, that's the one thing I can always go about. If I'm having a rough day, if I'm having a tough situation, I can pray, I can talk, I can go through and I can look at the the evidence in my own lived experience in my life that I've done hard things, I've gone through hard stuff, but I'll bounce back. Tomorrow's a new day. I'll get over this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

No, it's good. I it's funny that we are willing to deny the fact that we're all spiritual beings, right? And I mean, it's it's funny because we'll say, well, your body, your body, your mind, you know, those need to be strong. Your social circles or your connections need to be strong. But we're missing the thing that makes us uniquely who we are. Like the spiritual part of us, that's who makes us individuals, that's who makes us who we are and what we are. And we kind of relegate that to like, oh, that's for kids, or that's for you know, um, soft people who need to believe in something. No, no, that's that's your reality, whether you want to acknowledge that or not. And so if you're not addressing the spiritual part of who you are, then any care given to your situation beyond that, it's it's just about behavior modification or changing um habits or or whatever, but it's not dealing with the actual issue, the actual brokenness, the actual hurt, the actual pain, the actual uh stuff that you're carrying. And so if you don't, if you don't address that from a faith perspective, you're you're missing what I would argue to be the most important part of your healing. Um yeah, and then again, looking outside of yourself, you know, what does faith do? Why why is faith so helpful in those moments where everything seems to be out of control or you've been hurt and you can't understand it, something's happened, the loss of someone that you care about. You can't you can't put it in a way, you can't put it in your mind in a way that you understand it. Why is faith so important? Well, because you can have confidence in those moments. Excuse me. Confidence in those moments that hold on. I'm the same way. Man, a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

Sorry. I get it. I've been holding back this cough, this perfect intervention. All right, we're back.

SPEAKER_00:

Man, it's weird when that happens too, right? Like it's always like I didn't feel it coming. Oh, there it is. Okay. Yeah. Um but yeah, so in those moments where you know it you can't understand it yourself, and and you're feeling the hurt and and all of the stuff again that we've talked about and that people experienced.

SPEAKER_01:

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SPEAKER_00:

Faith gives you the ability to look outside of that and go, look, maybe I don't understand it, but I'm confident that there's one who does, and that he has a plan, even if I can't see the plan. Again, you know, in our in our world, it's it's easy to understand this. You know, when you're on the battlefield and an order comes down from higher, you will eventually have distilled down to you your part. This is what I need to know to do my job. But in the middle of that, often you're like, what are we doing? How does this fit into anything bigger than this? And then, you know, 25 years later or whatever, you're reading a book going, oh, that's what was happening. Oh, now I get it, you know. And and I think, you know, life is that way. There's higher, that's God, and he has a plan that's bigger than what you can see and understand, and your job is to do your part, and that brings a lot of peace when we really get a hold of that.

SPEAKER_01:

Percent. And there's so much evidence in our lives that if you just reflect back on all the things you wanted, all the opportunities you wanted that you didn't get.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

The things that didn't work out. It's not about the perfect moments. Like, look back, look at everything that God had set set to set in motion for you. All the all the bad. Like I look at all the things I really want, man. I really hope I get this position or I get this. And I didn't. And at first you're like heartbroken, and you want to curse and say, This is bullshit. I deserve this. And then two, three years later down the road, you're like, you're living a great life. You have an amazing art you're an amazing job, you're doing something great. You reflect back, like, none of this would have been possible if that door would have opened instead of this one. Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good. Yeah, yeah, right on. That's uh the the main thing that we focus so much on everything we didn't get. And I that's a common thread that I see with people. It's like, well, if there is God, if he's out there, then why didn't this work out? Why didn't this happen or this way out this way? And I'm like, man, like open up the pat aperture. Like you gotta look outside of your own suffering. Like one of the greatest things, common humanity, like learning that, like, man, like your suffering is not unique to you, man. Thousands of us out there dealing with the same thing. That's right.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, and that's what I had to come to for myself, right? Even being in church and you know, being what I would again broadly call a person of faith. I still thought like I was the only one, right? And and it's weird because it's like, how how do you come to that place? But we do. And so, yeah, we definitely have to open the aperture, as you say, and and see that it's bigger than us.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. It might take a while, but that's one of the greatest things that and it everybody has their own path, their own journey. It's when whenever I meet a veteran that's going through the same things that I went through early on, I'm like, okay, like I really want to go there and whisper to him, like, hey, you it doesn't make sense right now, but it will I know better. Approach somebody, you know, it's the the lion that's uh you know, at the in the cage. Like it's sometimes you gotta you gotta tread lightly, but it's like, man, like you're in so much pain. You are in a world of hurt, and I just wish I could whisper to you and just say, again, in a year from now, you're gonna look back and it's gonna be okay. Yeah. It's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. How has the program changed from the initial, you know, the the initial, you know, program do you guys feel it to where it's at now?

SPEAKER_00:

In a lot of ways, we've just gotten better. We've, you know, it's funny, someone asked me the other day how has the curriculum changed? It really hasn't changed that much. We've adjusted a few things as different um issues have kind of bubbled to the surface, but but it's basically the same. The form is the same, the way we do things is basically the same. I I wouldn't say as the very beginning, but you know, a year or two into it, when we kind of settled on this is our format, this is how we do things. Uh, that hasn't changed much. What has really changed for us is that in the beginning, we were focused 100% on combat veterans. These are, and in the beginning, it was only men. These are combat guys who are coming home and really struggling. And just because of the way the wars have changed and you know the world has changed, um, we have a lot of uniformed folks going to our programs who haven't served in combat. What's interesting though is you know, this trauma thing we think is reserved for combat veterans. It's not. Yeah. And once you start to Realize like, man, a whole bunch of these guys were abused as children or have endured some kind of other crazy thing in their life that they took into the military. It it it's it's been interesting to watch because it's helped me go, huh? Maybe maybe the stuff we always attribute to combat is not really combat. I mean, combat certainly exacerbates it, it brings it to the surface. But people who really struggle are people who had typically, this is not universal, but typically someone who are people who had something going on already. And their world was already cracking. Um, they were barely holding it together, and the combat loss and the combat trauma just just crushed it and and knocked it over, you know. So that that has changed. Um, and it it again hasn't changed what we do, but how we communicate what we do has has changed a little bit.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Once I started going to school and studying this stuff, and I read about the ACE uh ACE study in the report, and that saw the childhood adversity scale and seeing those uh the reporting formats, like you know, seeing that like those very clear I itemized like checklist of things you experience in childhood determining like you know, your higher risk of heart disease, higher risk of asthma, higher risk of drug abuse, homelessness. I was like, holy shit. Yeah. And when you look at this, like 10 items in this report. And when I looked at my friends and started asking them, like, hey man, you got like 10 minutes, or I'm gonna ask you some things. And looked at all my friends that were willing to do, you know, do the ACES with me and and and check off. I was talking about a vast majority of them had nine things, ten things. Some of them was like, yep, yep, yep, yep. Both my parents were used drugs, alcohol, you know, extreme poverty. It's like, fuck. Like, and we're talking about the tip of the spear guys, guys that were in soft, guys that were in the 82nd, guys that were in all these units where you pride yourself on the best of the best, and they're all coming from these environments where they felt like God wasn't with them. They felt like there was nobody there because the lived experience was one of just extreme violence and hopelessness. It's like, okay, makes sense. You felt like there was nobody there for you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and you know, a lot of those, particularly in those communities, they have a comfort level with violence and trauma and hurt and brokenness that you know a lot of other people would not. And so they can they can do well in those environments because this is very comfortable and and uh something they understand. Um but man, I'm I mean, so we've definitely seen that in the special operations community, folks who come to us, but in the you know, the line units and in non-combat units, yeah, the number of people who serve in the military or in the first responder community, because we work with first responders who were sexually abused as children or physically certainly physically abused as children, and I mean it's it's not like some of them, it's like the majority. And um, to come across someone who was raised in a pretty good home, you know, I was raised in a good home, I had a good environment and all that. Like, I used to think that was normal. Well, at least in the military world, I'm the the abnormal one, right? Because my parents are still married and like I wasn't beat as a kid and all that kind of stuff. And so, yeah, and that does something to you, right? And I think it makes you you know very effective in some of those environments, but but at a soul level, it sets you up for an absolute uh failure. And if you don't have someone, something intervene in that, what makes you kind of comfortable in those environments eventually is gonna destroy you. So true.

SPEAKER_01:

It's absolutely true, man. Um and it's it's funny. We we look at our trauma for a lot of us, and the first initial reaction is like a badge of courage. And we don't we don't look at it as something that we have to deal with. And that's what makes it so problematic because it it you're kicking the can down the road and you're stuffing it down. Yep, you're stuffing it down, you're putting more stuff on top. I I vividly remember connecting with specific friends because of the shared trauma, the trauma bonding. And it's important to understand, like you do what you have to do while you're serving, but if you're listening and you're still in, like it's important to get help. It's important to look at these things and say, like, hey, like you experienced some stuff. It's yes, it's a part of who you are, but it's important to understand that you don't have to carry the stuff forever. Like the dark humor that helps us survive. It's important to understand, like, okay, we eventually have to face this. Otherwise, it just keeps piling on.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's it is definitely not a question of if, it's a question of when. I I was talking to a uh a young police officer a few weeks ago, and we were just talking, and he was sharing some things with me about you know, some of the stuff he had seen and whatever. He's like, but it's fine, it's fine. He's a young guy, right? And we're all when we're young, we're like I said, look, man, you have to just hear me on this and you have to believe me. You will eventually deal with the things you're talking about. You will. The question is, are you gonna deal with it now before you destroy your marriage and you destroy your life and you make decisions you can't recover from? Or are you going to deal with it on the other side of that? But at some point you're gonna deal with it. So yeah, this is, you know, this is like this this damaging myth that's been pushed on us by calling post-traumatic stress a disorder. We we we grab onto it like, well, it's a disorder, so I'm actually broken. So there's nothing I can do about it. It's just kind of, yeah, it's like a scar that you'd receive doing anything else. And it's just, no, you're not broken, man. Like that's that's that's being human. Um, humans deal with trauma, and trauma hurts, and it can cause real damage, but it doesn't have to. Yeah. And and you know, I say all of the time, um, there is no excuse for bad behavior. And so, you know, we can acknowledge we've been through difficult things, and there are very real consequences to that, psychologically and and physically, even, and we could talk about all of that, right, related to trauma. But that doesn't give you an excuse to behave badly. And so we need to learn how to work through that, you know. Whatever anyone thinks about General Mattis, um, his quote, you know, years and years ago about post-traumatic stress, and and he it's a long quote, but he says in the middle of it, I believe that trauma can be a catalyst for growth. And and that's kind of where that uh post-traumatic growth kind of thing came from, was from him when he was talking about this. But it can make you kinder, it can make you more perceptive. And he goes down this list of things that if you've experienced this stuff, instead of making you worse, in a lot of ways, it can make you a more you know effective, really human being. But you have to get help. So again, you're gonna deal with it. The question is, are you gonna deal with it now or are you gonna deal with it when you don't have a choice? And so I think that's a really important message for people to understand is man, you're you're not the exception to the rule. Yes. You're not gonna get by and it's gonna be okay. It's not gonna be okay. Um, you need help, and it's great to get help. And thankfully, we're living in kind of this you know golden age of help. Yeah. This isn't 2001 or 2003. You know, this isn't when I was trying to figure it out. Um, I have so many Vietnam veterans or Vietnam veteran families now who will meet at an event or something and they'll say, I wish, I wish we had something like this when my dad came home or when I came home. And um, man, there's no excuse not to get help right now. We get in our own way.

SPEAKER_01:

There are so many, so many organizations. There are so many places we can go. And and and guys, if you're listening, guys, gals, please, like, if you're on the on the cusp, on the verge of agreeing to go somewhere, please reach out. You can do it. You deserve to get help. Yeah, that's the thing that that breaks my heart, man. Now more than ever, I'm seeing it amongst our younger veterans that minimize their lived experience because they didn't see combat. Yeah, sure. And then they're like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not taking a slot from a combat. Yeah, brother, sister, you're not taking a slot from anybody. You deserve the heal. You deserve to get better. Everybody does. That's right. Um, that's right. That's right. Yeah. And man, it's I don't know if it's I think it's it's definitely the culture. And it does help when we have individuals that are willing to say, like, no, screw that stigma. Yeah. You deserve to heal too. That's right. Um, our our first responders or firefighters or police officers. That's another one I didn't understand until I started doing this. The the lack of resources and awareness for our police officers or sheriff deputies, you become a liability if you talk about this stuff. You uh become a pariah, nobody wants to talk to you. You mentioned that, hey, like I've got some issues. How have you seen the communities start responding? Are you seeing an uptick in our first responders reaching out?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's been actually pretty encouraging. And and, you know, and I say encouraging, it's weird living in this space, right? Because everything we do is based on people are hurting and bad things are happening. But just like in the military, so we have the active duty community reaches out to us constantly. I mean, we have more requests to come and speak to active duty units than we can respond to. Because these these unit COs or you know, senior enlisted, they're looking at their troops and they're saying, we've tried everything. We don't know what else to do to deal with suicide and to deal with all these issues. So can you come help us? So that's been great. They finally just said, you know, we're done. Like the the um the process that says we can only reach out to these resources, we're done with that. We've got to find what works. So the military has really moved toward that, and I'm thankful for that. Um, but now we're seeing police officers or police departments and fire departments do the same thing where you've got leadership in these departments coming to us going, look, we don't know what else to do. We've tried everything, you know, the city's paying for counselors and all this stuff, but it just it's not working. Can you help us? So we're seeing a lot more of that. One thing that has it's probably one of those we didn't we didn't plan it this way, but it's worked out really well, is since we're a non-clinical program, we're a faith-based program, we're non-clinical, what that means practically to the active duty military uh community and the first responder community is that if they come to one of our programs, which is five days long, doesn't cost anything, there's no output for the department or for the unit, well, they can come and get help. They can say whatever they want to their bosses, right? They can come and get help, and and we have zero reporting requirements. So I don't have to say anything to their command. So if they're, you know, particularly like in the special operations community or in the um, you know, the air combat community, pilots and people with top secret clearances, they don't want to get help because they're afraid they're gonna lose their job. So we've been able to help them and get them back to their jobs and they're able to move forward uh without worrying about the stigma attached to that. Now it's become that way with police officers and firefighters. Now we've got police departments cutting their people loose for five days, saying, Yeah, do what you need to do, go get help, and they can come back and go back to work. And so it's been um pretty cool to see that. Um just that shift. And again, it's a shift that's been demanded because of the problem. But I'm thankful that leadership is now starting to go, all right, look, we don't care what the solution is, but we've got to find a solution. And they're really tapping into organizations like ours and a lot of others. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, we we um we have to understand that something's working. And the things that are working, we have to promote. Like it's yeah, we cannot afford to continue kicking the can down the road when it comes to veteran suicide, first responder suicide. It I always say this, the the QRF, there's no magical force that's coming to to take away this pain to magically heal it. Yeah, it takes courage, it takes vulnerability, it takes somebody finally being willing to say, you know what, I don't want to live this life anymore. I want to live a better way. I I have to do this for myself. It it really has to hit the right person. That's why podcasts, YouTubes, like everything we can do to share these messages. Because I know you've been there. I've wanted to heal somebody, I've wanted somebody to get help. I've been that person that's like, you gotta do this, and it doesn't work, man. It doesn't work. It does not work until the person hits the right message or hears the right message and decides on their own that the enough's enough. Yeah, I'm gonna do this for me. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's good. It's the hardest thing to experience, and I can only imagine, having been doing this for a while, that there's not always a happy ending for everybody. That there's not always a great heart, you know, you we not we're not gonna always hit home runs. There's always gonna be individuals that don't make it. How have you been able to navigate the wins and the losses from somebody that's so intimately in this fight?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I I mean how how to navigate the wins and the losses. One of the conversations that you know we have as a team is is that we're having a thousand people a year go through our program, which sounds amazing, and it is amazing. But there are two and a half million active duty service members in the United States, there's 20 plus million veterans, and then you have the spouses and the families you add to that. And then when we talk about the first responder community, it's you know, millions more who are serving. And so when we think about a thousand coming through our program every year, as amazing as that is, it's a very, very, very small percentage of the overall population of need. And so we rejoice in the victories or the wins. We get excited when someone understands, oh, there is hope and there is purpose, and I can find an identity outside of the military or outside of my trauma or brokenness. We get very excited about that, and we do our best to then equip those people. Our program is five days, but that's just a starting point. After that five-day program, we do everything we can to connect them to resources, to get them into faith communities or other communities from you know, people who can support them. We get them counselors, whatever they need to continue that journey. We stick with them and walk, walk uh through that with them. And so, man, you you just get excited about that and you rejoice in it, but there's always this heaviness, like, man, there are so many more people. And and so I think what you do is you do this. You you you know, you get up every day and you you do some more, and you know, again, like you said, and I agree with that. It's podcasts, it's it's books, it's articles, it's blog posts, it's it's uh pushing stuff out on YouTube, it's speaking. We do a lot of speaking. Um it's doing everything you can to get to get this message of hope out to as many people as possible.

SPEAKER_01:

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SPEAKER_00:

And um, you know, for us, we've been producing resources because not everyone does want to come to a program or listen to someone talk, but they may read a book, they may um connect to some other resource because they know they're hurting and they want to keep it to themselves, so they'll go somewhere else to get a resource. You just keep your head down and keep keep moving forward and help as many people as you possibly can.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. It's a new battleground. It's uh trying to make sure. But the other thing that I realize is everybody has a cup and everybody has to figure out a way to fill it and maintain, like stick to your your routines, stick to your the things that replenish you. Like I've talked to a lot of people in the space, and and that's they usually have that one story of like, yep, it bit me in the ass. I uh poured everything I had into the program, into others, and then before long, I was depleted. I wasn't able to be a father. I wasn't able to be.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Have you found yourself um in those situations or have you been able to figure out a good plan of attack for making sure that, hey, I gotta still take care of Jeremy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, like everyone talks about balance, right? It's it's crazy because you know, there it's a never-ending thing. Like I I say this all the time like you never really win in the work that we're doing. It's not like you ever, you know, you cross the finish line and the games or you know, the game's over or the event's over or whatever. It's like, hey, we won. That's not how this works. Um, and it won't work that way. And there will always be more people to help and more people who are hurting. And so it's not just me, man. It's it's our whole team. It's anyone involved in this kind of work. Um, you know, they call it compassion fatigue and all these things, but it can get exhausting. And so you really do have to have those times. For me, I don't think of it as in, you know, like an everyday balance thing. I think of it as moments, you know, think about it in terms of weeks or months. Uh, if I'm gonna give four or five days of nonstop, then I need to take a day to kind of recover and realign and get things back in order. Um, obviously, my faith walk is very important to me, and that keeps me grounded and focused. Um working um on the relationships that I have in my life with my, you know, my wife and my kids and these other relationships are very important. So all of that helps to keep you grounded, but yeah, you you definitely need to make sure that you're if you're in in this work at all, um, make sure that you're taking care of yourself because a lot of people burn out on it, and I get it. Yeah, I get it. Um, but if you want to do this for the long haul, realize it's a long haul. Yeah, it's a marathon. And uh you've got to take time to take a break and and unplug and reset and then get back in.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. It is not a journey that's gonna come to an end real quick.

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, not at all. But it's a worthy fight. Um it is, yeah. It it is. It's crazy, right? Like sometimes I think if I was just involved in corporate America somewhere, then you know you can measure the winds, right? Yeah. And things things are real black and white. Those are weekly quad charts to look at. Right. I mean, if it all like like I can see, you know, there's a score, but I mean, I'd be happy in that life for 10 minutes because what we're doing is so much more important than that. And so, yeah. Um, I like the idea of that, but uh but the reality is being able to communicate truth and help and hope to people is the most important work we could do. Absolutely, man.

SPEAKER_01:

So before I let you go, Jeremy, yeah, tell us a little more about the program. What can somebody expect if they sign up and uh are ready to commit to head on over to Mighty Oaks?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so you know, the front door is our website, MightyOaks Programs.org. You can go there and learn about us, and there's all kinds of stuff there. But the application is also there. So if you've served, you're you're a veteran service member, you know, currently serving, first responder or spouse, uh, go ahead and apply there. Our team will take that application and they'll work with you to find the right um date or dates that work for you to attend our program. Uh it's five days long, as I mentioned. Men's programs and women's programs are held separately for, I think, to me, it's obvious reasons, right? Men do better. Uh being honest and transparent when it's just men and women would be the same. And so um, you spend five days with us, we talk about trauma, we talk about some of those issues and what they are, what they're not, but most importantly, how we can move forward in spite of what we've experienced in our lives. One of the unique things about Mighty Oaks is that every instructor, every team leader, everyone who's a part of what we do started as a student. And so you're not sitting in a room where you've got professionals telling you how you should do things. You have other men and women who have a shared background, similar background, saying, Look, I know exactly where you're coming from. I've dealt with a lot of the same things, and here's um you know what's happened in my life in order to move forward. And so um, yeah, it's very peer-to-peer. It's an intense five days, but it's it's with people that care about you and want you to move forward. Awesome, man.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, guys, do me a favor, pause right now, go to episode description. If you're ready, start your journey. If you're ready to fight back, uh, keyword you. You're ready. Yeah, right, right. Click the link. Let's go. Start healing right now. Get on the path to recovery. Uh, it's better on this side. It's a journey. You're gonna have to work, but when have you ever been scared of work? Uh, for a vast majority of you, you're just getting out of the military or still in, and uh, you're no stranger to work in details. You're no stranger to doing a lot of hard work. So please take this challenge on. I want it for you, but that's not enough. You're gonna want it for you. Jeremy can't do it for you, I can't do it for you. Nobody else can. Um, my final plea to you, please, please, please, please. I I don't want to lose any more of you. And we need you. That's the only way our country is gonna continue uh to be great, to prosper, and and change and get back on the right direction. So more of you, stick around. So please uh find some vulnerability, find some courage, some strength, click that link, sign up. And if you're a Green Beret, I gotta make it really easy for you. Head on over to Special Forces Foundation, connect with uh our our individuals, our care providers, and then we'll get you connected to uh Mighty Young Foundation. They're uh a foundation that's connected, they're a partner, and we want you guys to stay. We need more Green Berets in the fight, and I can't afford to lose any more of you. Uh Jeremy, I can't thank you enough for being here, brother, and for what you guys are doing. You've put a lot of great Green Berets to your program that are doing well. They're back, they're in the regiment, they're serving, and more importantly, they've now found their faith. And that's helping fuel them and keep them in the fight for a hell hell of a lot longer than if they wouldn't have gone through the program. Again, if people want to connect with you guys, where can they go?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, the easiest way is just the website mightyoaksprograms.org. And uh everything about us is there, including how to get involved with the program. So, yeah, I really appreciate it, man. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Thank you. There you have it, folks. Thank you all for tuning in, and we'll see you all next time. Till then, take care. SecureDob Podcast is proudly sponsored by Titan's Arms. Head up the episode description and check out Titan's Arms today.

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Deny Caballero

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