Leading Through the Fog: Culture, Combat & the Cost of Silence with Tyr Symank

SPONSORED BY: PURE LIBERTY LABS, TITAN SARMS, PRECISION WELLNESS GROUP, and THE SPECIAL FORCES FOUNDATION

In this powerful episode of Security Halt!, host Deny Caballero sits down with Tyr Symank to explore the complexities of military culture, leadership, and mental health. From unique operational experiences in Korea to the internal battles faced by Special Forces veterans, they unpack the weight of legacy, the need for vulnerability, and the unspoken challenges of transitioning to civilian life. Tyr shares personal insights on PTSD, accountability, and why seeking help is a strength—not a weakness. This is a must-listen for anyone navigating the military-to-civilian gap or supporting those who are.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Cold Open: Chaos And Comms
• 1:19 Welcome And Seventh Group Backstory
• 2:39 Korea: Luxury Living, War Prep
• 4:15 Partner Force Strengths And Gaps
• 7:40 History Threads: Freefall And NASA
• 9:30 Why Documenting SOF Stories Matters
• 12:30 Mean-Girl Culture And Joint Reality
• 15:10 Rank, Reputation, And Fit For Command
• 17:15 Caring For A WWII Paratrooper
• 21:20 Duty, Family, And American Elder Care
• 24:05 Contracting Truths And Costs
• 27:20 Mission First Has A Price
• 30:10 PTSD, Safety Boundaries, And Seattle
• 33:40 Don’t Dull The Edge? The Myth
• 36:10 Culture Change: Leaders Need Therapy
• 39:20 Diagnoses, Meds, And System Friction
• 42:10 Gut-Brain Link And SGB Relief
• 45:20 Purpose, Denial, And The Breaking Point
• 48:30 A Sergeant Major’s Suicide Plan
• 52:10 Choosing Help For Your Team And Kids
• 55:10 Vulnerability As A Warrior Skill
• 58:20 Security Clearances And Real Care
• 1:01:10 Recruiting Resilience, Healing After
• 1:04:10 Resources For SOF And Contractors
• 1:07:20 Money Myths Of Contracting
• 1:10:20 Giving Back And Knowing When To Pause
• 1:13:00 Practical VA And TBI Advice
• 1:16:00 Contacts, Sponsors, And Farewell

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:10

We don't. We're gonna have used uh we're gonna scroll from all right, we're good.

SPEAKER_03: 0:18

The SF way, adapt, overcome. My last my last trip that was we had our our Harris radios, but uh we were we were operating in a joint environment. So uh it was um like the the bridge we were rolling with had much stricter I'm not even gonna say rules of engagement, it was rules of just rolling out of the gate. And while any one of us uh Americans could just look, hey, we're we're gonna go. You got me on ATAC, okay, good. Yeah, let's go. It got to the point where, so I was the Sergeant Major and my counterpart, my my commander was was a Brit. It got to the point where occasionally, if he didn't have to go, which was completely counter to like British culture, like because officers run everything in in the UK. Um if he didn't have to go and comms were a mess, it'd be like alright, you got it. Tier, welcome to Security Hub Podcast, man. Thanks, man. It's uh nice to link up with you again after 2018. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30

Yeah, seventh group in its infinite wisdom said, you know, we need a soft liaison. Let's send the only two Panamanians we have in the battalion. And that's how Patrick is to Korea. Yeah. Which ended up being an amazing experience. That that was uh a very memorable trip for two reasons. Um, the people were just the man, amazing individuals. Yeah, Koreans are great, yeah, great. And uh the fact that we got to live on the Army's dime in uh a resort-style high-rise apartment. Thank you to the Marriott's uh extended stay hotel. That was the Dragon Inn or were you at K2? No, no. We were so we were originally at the Dragon Inn and our battalion. I mean, fuck, I'm out of the military. They're like, this is too expensive. Right. We need to go find somewhere to live. So you're saying we need to find somewhere to live that's at cost. And he's like, yeah, exactly. He's like, okay. So we went to the Marriott's extended uh stay suites, which is like a high-rise building, the fanciest cars I've ever seen that for people that live there. And they have this thing where they they provide all the meals and all the stuff and all these uh amenities, and we're like, just take all of it, all of it. We just want a place to stay here, and they're like, Yeah, we can do it at this price, and we're like, All right, I guess this is where we're sleeping.

SPEAKER_03: 2:55

It was such a weird trip for me, man, because uh, you know, we were on the the brink of the worst, we were on the brink of near-peer kinetic action. And uh, you know, my buddies in the 3X over there in SOTCOR were telling me exactly when it was gonna kick off. So I counted that as pretty reliable intel that we were doing this. And um, and you know, the the cost estimate, if if you will, was 40% casualties in the first 48 hours. Yeah. Uh all that the whole area by by Inshan gone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 3:32

And you know, not a stranger to combat. You know, we were talking, my first trip was in 03, humping around in the Hindi bush and everything else. And uh that um so it was just such a weird dichotomy because I'm living in a first world country, Samsung literally everywhere, because that's where Samsung's from, and um, and you know, great food, great people, you know, really low threat of an even if if intelligence services were following you around, it was probably Koreans and like who cares, you know? Yeah, so it's super strange, but you know, you've got that in the back of your mind, like, okay, uh, if this kicks off, you know, everybody is in artillery range of North Korea, and it's uh it's all it's all nerve and chemical. So enjoy being, you know, a green glob. I've I thought about uh what's the movie with Nicholas Cage and Sean Connery? Yes, The Rock. I thought about that movie a lot in 2018.

SPEAKER_00: 4:35

Oh, dude, it was such a rad, rad place to be at that time period because the like the the partner force are spun up, everybody's like shit, like discussing like their plan of actions, and I'm just like we're all dead. Yeah. We're we're all dead.

SPEAKER_03: 4:51

So that was a weird thing. So, you know, being the AOBK sergeant major, um, with teams spread out over the country with their um respective uh partner companies or units, um I kind of got a feel for the different uh the different soft units over there. And uh it wasn't my first trip to Korea because I'm I've been a PACOM guy my whole career. And uh one thing about the Koreans is they're they're really fit and they can pound some soju and they will challenge you to that. And in that respect, it's like working with uh, you know, maybe one of the best infantry units in the world. But the one big downfall of them is everything is for show. The demos are so performing. God forbid you've got a dude that uh, you know, is like a Division I athlete sprinter or you know distance runner or something, they don't know what to do with that because all of a sudden somebody can outrun them. You know, typically most SF guys, with the exception of a few, you know, teams ending in five, cannot outrun them, right? And for listeners that aren't SF yet's a dive team, but uh yeah, you've got one dude that can run, they don't know what to do all of a sudden because somebody has outp out PT'd them. But in terms of mission planning and everything else that goes into being a Green Beret, or even I was gonna say special operations in general, but not all special operations plan. So I'm just gonna say Green Beret. They they don't have it, man. They don't have it because they're so like top priority is I think they took our SF rules to heart, right? Rule number one, always look good.

SPEAKER_00: 6:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 6:43

Rule number two, always know where you are. Rule number three, if you don't know where you are, go back to revert back. Yeah, they're all about looking good and being in shape. But I don't know that I tried to do MDMP with them once on uh on a full legal exercise, a foul chicken, we like to call it.

SPEAKER_00: 6:57

So we were there for a full legal, and that there's exactly everybody has their like space starship command computer system, and I'm like, Yeah, I bet you if we just went to talk to one of these lieutenants, one of these captains, they wouldn't know third-level questions about anything that's going on.

SPEAKER_03: 7:13

There's so no, yeah. I guarantee you, I guarantee you, Danny, if you if you if you ask him a specific question about what happens on a specific day at a specific time, they will pull, they will look around and pull a book out of the cargo pocket and go, oh yeah, the general is going to be here on this day and the ambush will come this way. They know because if they don't, yeah, there's a chance they won't look good. Yeah. Our partner team, they really wanted to go out uh and and you know do cream beer barbecue, and yeah, uh their team started wanting to challenge me to a soju contest, Robin Stage moment. Of course, you gotta Roger up to it though. But initial answer was we can't, we're in isolation, we're doing mission planning. No. We've got this, this, this to fill. And it was like captain to captain talking to each other. And their captain, exactly that, just pulled out of a little smart book out of his out of his pocket, looked like it had been printed at Kinkos, and told him exactly the answers he needed. And we're like, why are we struggling? Like I just had the battalion CSM deliver a palette of monsters to this team room because we're doing like 24 hours. Which I will never forget. He still works in in group as a civilian. And every time I see him, I I thank him for that because that was that was miss.

SPEAKER_00: 8:33

Yeah, it was it was a wild time, but it gave me like great insight to what it takes to do that job at that that that in that detachment. Like we've we forget about the smaller like entities, like especially at Seventh Group. We don't have a forward-deployed element, we don't have anybody in Puerto Rico or in Panama, right? But and was Puerto Rico really forward deployed anyway? I mean I mean that they really try to make that happen. They really try to make that happen. I'm like, somebody has family there, they're just trying to get that. There's a lot of extended family in Puerto Rico now. That's what happens. We call that generational trauma. You know, I really would love to be there for junior, but you know, that the C17s are moving to Puerto Rico.

SPEAKER_03: 9:18

How many kids do you have? I'm like three that I know about. And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, I don't know. There's probably some like half-viking Filipino kids running around somewhere.

SPEAKER_00: 9:27

Well yeah, that detachment in Korea, they're all there by themselves, and they have a pretty robust job, man. Like that it takes a lot to be an NCO there to be taking care of an entire friggin' like battalion plus. Like, and I didn't get that insight. And then when and the language, man, like we always get shit on in Sabbath group, but yeah, you have to admit, Spanish is pretty easy. Right.

SPEAKER_03: 9:51

And getting to curriculum. We call Indonesian the Spanish of Asia.

SPEAKER_01: 9:57

Right? I've actually heard that.

SPEAKER_03: 10:00

In Seventh Group, you've just got the Spanish that's banished.

SPEAKER_00: 10:04

This episode is also brought to you by Precision Wellness Group. Getting your hormones optimized shouldn't be a difficult task. And Dr. Taylor Bosley has changed the game. Head on over to Precision Wellness Group.com, enroll, and become a patient today. Yeah, dude, it's um it's you know, very thankless job going there and then seeing the professionalism of the individuals. Like it's like, dude, kudos to you guys. Like, but I also didn't know the rich history. I had no idea that before long long ago, there was a lot of seventh group blood that went through there. Like going down the hallway, I still remember it. I'm like, why the f there's a Martinez? A Garcia? What the fuck?

SPEAKER_03: 10:45

Yeah, so you're a free fall guy, right? Well yeah, yeah. So where was the first military free fall jump?

SPEAKER_00: 10:53

So actually, I know this because I do the uh social media for Special Forces Foundation uh at 39, the first one were out in Korea. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 11:01

I didn't know that until reading Annie Jacobson book. Uh, because I I thought it was uh, you know, Mac V in Vietnam. Turns out they were doing it in in the Korean War with not great results.

SPEAKER_00: 11:16

No, no, I also didn't know that we we had uh connective tissue to NASA. I didn't know that we had dudes that were involved with like going after the recovery of of the rockets for uh I forget the um the mission. That's like a testament to like the our our regiment has been doing amazing things that people forget about, man.

SPEAKER_03: 11:38

Bro, there's so much of our history that uh is still under wraps or just straight up forgotten because yeah, maybe people didn't think of it as relevant at the time. Um I when I taught ROTC, my boss was uh his last assignment was uh he was in a he was a historian at USASOC. No way. Yeah, and I kind of at the time, you know, I'm I'm fresh out of like when I took that job, I took it as taking a break because between my military deployments and civilian deployments, I hadn't been home longer than four months straight since graduating the Q course. Yeah, dude. Which was seven years straight. So um, you know, I was pretty salty when I got into that office. And uh him coming from this cush job like historian, used to suck. He's a great dude, by the way. But I initially looked at that, I was like, okay, we got a pogue on our hands. I mean, at least he's at least he's a jump master, he's got his you know his master blaster wings. I guess that's good. But when you're at Brag, that's what else are you gonna do? But looking back on it now, it is what you're doing here with this podcast and and what everybody else is doing that is uh is actually documenting um the the history and the stories of of what actually happened from from guys on the ground. I think it is really, really important. Um I mean there's there's some out there that are are you know there's a there's a couple of media outlets out there that I won't name by name, uh, but I think I just think I know I can I can sense it. Yeah, yeah. I don't I don't think we there's a certain amount of soft rage bait out there, and it's working really well. And I've always told dudes that nobody will tear a green beret down like another green beret. We are mean girls, you know, you can't sit with us.

SPEAKER_00: 13:38

Fuck yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 13:38

Oh, you're from a different team? No. But then you get somewhere else. Oh, you're from a different company? No. Oh, you're from a different telling, and it just goes up, right? Yeah. When you get into the joint environment, it's not like that. You've gotta you gotta learn that you aren't the cock of the walk. Or maybe you are, but you're not gonna be able to do your job unless you play nice with others.

SPEAKER_00: 14:00

It's so true, man. Like it's I don't know why we do that. I understand when you when when you're in a team and you mess up being held accountable, but shitting on each other on the outside or be means somebody that focuses on the negative stuff. Like, look, you've got to be able to hold people accountable. But doing a play-by-play as to why this organization is dog shit versus this organization, everybody has a piece of the puzzle. Everybody has great skill sets. Like, dude, some of my the some of the best people I've met have been Navy SEALs on the outside. Some of the dudes that I talk to on a regular basis are Navy SEALs. But we shit on each other, shit on this team. Oh, fuck, SEALs and that. I'm like, dude.

SPEAKER_03: 14:47

Well, what the accepts the SEALs, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 14:52

Like we do, we don't do a good, like, we don't understand, like, when you get on the outside, that team room is is infinitely, infinitely huge. And it has to incorporate other dudes from other organizations. Like, we don't have to tear each other apart, man, just because one person's a piece of shit. If we were all measured, if all if every green beret was measured by that one green beret, and what he did, we'd be fucked. So don't do it for the other forces. Don't do it for the other, don't do it for SEALs, man. Don't do it for anybody. It happens in the ranks, too, though, man.

SPEAKER_03: 15:23

I mean, yeah. Uh I've been in E9 for a hot minute now. Uh, I've turned down CSM a couple times, which that's one of the strengths of the guard is you can just say no. Um it's kind of weird. Uh, but I've also been passed over um a couple times, and I said no a couple times, and then I got passed over. And I was like, what happened?

SPEAKER_00: 15:47

I like being the one that turns it away.

SPEAKER_03: 15:50

Yeah. Yeah. But your your reputation can make or break you, but at a lower, at the operational level, you have time to make that up. You know, when you get start getting up into the leadership ranks, people either love you or hate out hate you or don't know you at all. Uh, and and that can be a challenge. Um I've always been we're switching gears here a little bit but I've always been really suspect of people that want to make rank. Yeah, man. Yeah. And I I get it on the conventional side because you gotta stereotypically support people who are better take better at taking care of their career than the frontline dudes.

SPEAKER_00: 16:36

Yeah. And I've seen that. They have it all mapped out. They know.

SPEAKER_03: 16:39

Yeah. Yep. And thank God that we are not like other branches where once you get into E8 and E9 level, it's it's like uh branch of material. Yeah. Yeah. Some of the best teammates I ever had. Hey, we gotta pause real quick. Oh, yeah.

unknown: 16:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 16:58

Hey, grandpa. Yeah. I am. I'm downstairs. Okay, I'll be up there in 30 seconds. Okay. Be there in a second.

unknown: 17:03

All right.

SPEAKER_03: 17:04

I gotta go help him get out of bed. I'll be right back.

SPEAKER_00: 17:06

No more about that. Uh, you're taking care of the of our greatest generation, man. You hear me?

SPEAKER_02: 17:14

There we go. Sorry, I had a coffin fit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 17:18

A glimpse of that denim shirt coming downstairs, man. This is one of those things like you see on the rack, like, yeah, that's cool. But then you gotta work up the balls to wear it, because there's only two ways you can go, right? It's either you end up the Marlboro man or Ellen DeGeneres. Like it's there's not a lot in between.

SPEAKER_00: 17:36

It's a workman outfit, don't worry. I I have a affinity to Patagonia, and I have a few of their denim work shirts. Yeah. Nothing like going out to work with a uh$200 denim shirt from Patagonia. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 17:56

Pickaxe over your shoulder.

SPEAKER_00: 17:58

It's a ball peen hammer, sir. Yeah, yeah. I got uh the rotor needs to be fixed.

SPEAKER_03: 18:03

It's that scene out of uh hot rod where he's just in the garage. Oh, Denise, didn't see you then. I guess there is a third option. You could be Bob Ross, but nobody can be Bob Ross and be cool except Bob Ross.

SPEAKER_00: 18:16

That's the only man. That's the only man. He made God yeah, bless that man.

SPEAKER_03: 18:22

So my grandpa. Uh World War II paratrooper. Um yeah. I didn't know any of this until he was in his 80s, right? I yeah, I came. I mean, I knew he was in World War II, but I, you know, yeah. Everybody in that generation was World War II. Uh or most most people anyway. Um I came home from a rotation uh someplace bad, and I'm I'm sitting there at his breakfast table, and he came in from doing whatever he was doing in the yard. You know, I I was recovering from multiple time zones, so I got up around 10 or so. I'm sitting I'm sitting at his kitchen table, he comes in from the yard, and he just sits down and goes, you know, I drove over an IED in Japan and it put me in a coma for two months. And I'm just like mid, like spooned amount with cereal, and I'm just looking at him, and that was it. He just got up and walked back out to the yard. Nobody in the family knew that. Holy shit. Wow, yeah. So his service has just kind of been trickling out like that.

SPEAKER_00: 19:32

Yeah. Well, they're built different, man. They're they're built so different. Um, I had the this past summer, I had the the honor of taking part of a Return to the Battlefield program from the Best Defense Foundation. And uh it's life-changing, man. Like if you don't, if you don't have the connective tissue of family, like I'm I'm did I'm not from here. Like so beyond grateful to be American, but you know, all my roots are you know, little chunkla-wearing people from Panama. Like they didn't, to my knowledge, there's no great Panamanian general or leader that was storming the beaches in Normandy. I missed out on that lady.

SPEAKER_03: 20:11

Normandy, I was gonna say I'm in Normandy. Oh, right.

SPEAKER_00: 20:15

This episode is brought to you by Titan SARMs. Head on over to TitansArms.com and buy a stack today. Use my code CDny10 to get your first stack. I recommend the Lean Stack 2. Start living your best life. Titan SARMs. No junk, no bullshit, just results. My lineage is drug trade and questionable banking price uh practices. Uh that's that's how proud I am. But yeah, like you grow up seeing and hearing all these great American uh stories of what happened with that generation in World War II in both theaters, and you're just like, man, like I don't I don't have a dog in that fight. And the first time I felt really proud was serving in the 82nd, and then I could say, like, I'm part of this organization. And then meeting, like, we had to do one of those great like meetups with the old paratroopers, and that felt amazing. But going there and being with heroes from that time period and and just breaking bread with them and walking around all those sites, and and the stories came out just like that. You know, you're you're having dinner, hanging out, but then if you just sit there and and you just walk with them, they'll give you a little bit of history of their lived experience, and it's like, fuck, dude.

SPEAKER_03: 21:34

Like I uh I brought one of my buddies to uh Cape Fear Valley ER one time, I don't remember why, but it was during the daytime. But it was also All American Week. And this is well over a decade ago, so there was more World War II vets around.

SPEAKER_02: 21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 21:54

But there was uh an older man in the bed next to my buddy, and uh he looked over and said, You you boys airborne? I said, Yes, sir. He goes, Me too. He goes, How many jumps you got? I said, I don't know, maybe twenty-five, twenty-six, I I don't know. He was like, and I could do, you know, it's like it's fishing for the question. I said, How about you? He said, just four.

SPEAKER_00: 22:24

And they were all named, you know. The only four that matter.

SPEAKER_03: 22:30

Yeah, it was pretty cool. That's bad. Um sometimes I wonder, you know, I know that our generation uh suffers a lot from imposter syndrome. And I think it's probably worse in the SF community than than other forces because we are beat down by our superiors and you know told to be quiet professionals. And part of that is in I think also part of that is just soft by nature because we have an inherent desire to to prove ourselves and and reach for something higher. And once you reach a certain level, you're like, what now? So you reach for that next level. And um and that's both a strength and a curse for us. But I wonder if with him part of that silence about his service and particularly his injury, um, was a little bit of an imposter syndrome. Just a hint. I mean, there there's other stuff that goes in there, but uh because he was a he was in quartermaster core, you know, it wasn't supply guy, he was a truck driver. And on the surface, you know, coming from Combat Arms, like, all right, you're an 88 Mike, whatever. You know? Um but if you're an 88 Mike in Iraq, you're like, bro, like you could have picked a better job. Yeah. I mean, for safety. But uh the reason he ended up being an 88 Mike, when you dive into this a little bit, oh, and where I was going with that is like he also got to Japan after the surrender. You know, in his mind it's possible that he missed out on the actual glory. And he had to sign up, he's the youngest of seven brothers or sisters. He had to get his parents permission to enlist at 16. That's why he's still around, you know, even though he was 96. He's uh he was young about in World War II at the very tail end. But if you delve into why he was a truck driver and what he was doing in Japan, it's actually pretty cool. So he told me I just learned this like last week. He said uh the work because of the war, they shut down the school and there weren't no men to do the jobs, so they shut down school so us boys could do the work. So he was driving truck from Waco, Texas to Houston at night at 12 years old.

SPEAKER_00: 25:01

Holy shit.

SPEAKER_03: 25:03

Yeah, at 12. I looked at him and he goes, Well, it's kind of like the roads are now. You know, couldn't do it like that. I was like, Well, yeah, I imagine. But you know, that gave him the background. I'm sure the army said, What do you know how to do? He said, I can drive trucks, so I name a truck drive. Now he ended up being a paratrooper is it paid an extra$12 a month. Yeah. And he figured that was pretty good. Side note, I did the math for like inflation and consumer price index. For our jump pay to be equal to his was, we would be paying, be paid$940 a month for basic airborne pay. We've been shafted. Yeah. They're good at that. Especially our rally hasn't changed, you know, in the last 50 years, 75 years.

SPEAKER_02: 25:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 25:49

What he was doing, what he got assigned to uh 8th Army. That's that's what he remembers. 8th Army. He was on uh a slow boat to Japan as part of uh a contingency air uh airborne invasion force if the bombs didn't work. And uh this is one of the coolest parts about his story. He says, They surrendered while I was on the boat. They heard that boy from Waco was coming. I love it, man. Still got it. Yeah, I love it. They ended being a motor sergeant, and uh he said they surrendered, but they didn't give up. He said that it was still pockets fighting, and you know, which I don't think most civilians would understand, but uh you know, us fighting insurgencies for 20 years. We get that. Oh, 100%. It's the difference between what's on paper and what somebody in the hills is motivated for.

SPEAKER_00: 26:44

Fucking loot, dude. We and hell, the the last guy of the surrender, the guy that was on the island, where what year was that? Like the 70s? The 60s, 70s? Uh the last holdout uh Japanese troop.

SPEAKER_03: 26:57

So there were a couple of them, and I think the last one was actually later than that. Oh wow. Yeah, yeah. I think it was when we were kids.

unknown: 27:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 27:06

Could imagine that so we're this wild, man. Yeah, it's this wild. So what he's struggling with right now, he's uh he just moved in with me about a month and a half ago, and uh, I'm his full-time caretaker, which I was already in transition, you know. I'm in the process of uh being medically retired after 30 years, and um so I've got all my appointments and I've got my VA disability and this last week, man, it was nothing but VA. It was me the first few days and him the second few days. But his um between being a general contractor his entire life and being airborne in World War II and and actually getting blown up and having he goes, I got this piece of metal on my back. I gave some might be shrapnel. I don't know if you'd call it shrapnel. I said, Well, grandpa, if it came off of something that exploded and it's in you, yes, that is that is shrapnel, in my medical opinion. He's in a lot of pain right now. I feel bad. He's he's transitioned. The VA is trying, man. They they really do treat him well, but nothing runs as fast as it should.

SPEAKER_00: 28:20

Yeah. Especially right now with this. I can only imagine with the shutdown.

SPEAKER_03: 28:24

Yeah, yeah, it's difficult. I just called a number the doctor gave me on Thursday, and it said we're experiencing technical difficulties. I'm like, no, you're not, you're experiencing money difficulties. Yep.

SPEAKER_00: 28:34

Man, it that's gotta be, you know, I know this is not missed out on you. You're a writer. Yeah. You're transitioning, you're seeing the end, the the the light of the the sun is setting on your military career, and you're in this position of taking care of someone that you love. And in in this late stage in their life, I have to imagine it it comes with a lot of reflection, a lot of review as as you're having the care, be compassionate, and also sit down and be like, wow, like there's a lot of change. There's a lot of slowing down in my life right now. So it's kind of like looking into uh a crystal ball.

SPEAKER_02: 29:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 29:18

I mean, I called this over my shoulder as I was getting up to walk out, you know, you said you were saying something about taking care of the greatest generation. I have had some, you know, pats on the backs for for doing what I'm doing, but I really didn't see it as an option. Yeah, no, it's family. When when they when his care gets beyond what I can provide, then I will look at other options. Right now, it's it's very important that he is with people that he knows and that he loves. Absolutely. I I would I I hope that my kids see this and do the same thing for me with if I make it to. Night and six, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 30:01

Well, man, it's um our culture. We we don't like no, we don't take care of our elders, and we also don't prioritize it as part of the of the uh of being a warrior, then the nurturing side of being a warrior. This episode is brought to you by Pure Liberty Labs. Quality supplements designed to elevate your health and performance. Check out their full line of quality supplements, whether you're looking for whey protein, pre-workout, creatine, or super greens drink, Pure Liberty Labs has you covered. Use my code security hall10 at checkout today. Yeah, it it is a hundred percent part of it. Like, who better to take care of your grandfather than you? Like, who better? Like you lived, you you went through something you can connect on on so many different levels. Like, yeah, we have to understand that. Like, we have to reach back in time to see because at one point that was part of the American way. Right. When mom and dad got too old, we took care of them.

SPEAKER_03: 31:02

Well, I think we were more nuclear before. You know, and uh I think some of that was at a necessity, you know. I don't think all of it is values-based. Part of the reason people had so many kids back in the day was working in reality and you need somebody to till the field.

SPEAKER_02: 31:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 31:18

You know, it it it wasn't just I'd really like to be a mom or a dad. We're gonna lose this farm if we don't produce some offspring. But I I I think the that progressed, and you know, I I don't think that uh I don't know this for a fact, but I don't recall anybody ever talking about the uh geriatric care industry, you know, when you talk to older people. Nobody ever says, I had to put a put them in a home. I mean maybe our parents, but if if you've talked to your grandparents back in the day, they nobody's ever said anything about putting somebody in an old folk home. The only thing you're close to that is a soldier's home. Which the VA briefed me as an option. I'm like, no, not yet. And they're not close enough to me anyway. Yeah. I'm not gonna drive an hour down to Fort Lewis to visit my grandpa. Not worth it, not yet. Um here's another thing, Rand. I I missed out some of this is selfish for me, um, because I missed out on so much time with my family running and gunning.

SPEAKER_00: 32:31

Absolutely, man. And you've seen it, and the thing that that's remarkable is you didn't just see it through one lens. You thought you saw it and and you evolved with the GWAT. You saw it as a green beret. Uh oftentimes as a contractor. Like it's it's one thing. And I've I've had several several guests like, yeah, I work for Blackwater, but doing this, switching hats, and I mean, you have a different perspective on it. It's not just one-sided, it's like, fuck, like I'm gonna go do this, I'm gonna make a shitload of money, and then I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna put on the uh unconventional warfare hat on and go there and try to win the war.

SPEAKER_03: 33:09

So interesting about my contract experience. I I used to have a t-shirt that said uh I'm not here for the money. The the reason I went to Blackwater in the first place is because uh 19th, my my company was in the initial invasion of Iraq, but I missed out on that because I was learning Thai. So I could spend the next year in Afghanistan. So I missed it. It makes sense when you think about it. Yeah, I missed out of the initial invasion of Iraq. And that's where the fight was in um it wasn't happening for me. I was I was in and out of Africa uh like every three weeks, four weeks. I think one trip was six weeks, and that was a cool job, you know, especially for an SF guy. If you look back to like what dudes were doing uh, you know, after Vietnam and how Soldier of Fortune magazines.

SPEAKER_00: 34:02

Yeah, the Soldier of Fortune magazines, man. Yeah, you know, it's definitely part of the heritage.

SPEAKER_03: 34:07

Yeah. But um I'm I'm I was young and I was chomping at the bit to get to get in a fight with everybody else. And um Army wasn't sending me, and that's that's how I ended up with Blackwater. It wasn't it wasn't uh all right, I've I've done my piece because I'd already spent a year in Afghanistan at that point. Uh nine months, whatever. But uh it wasn't like alright, I've I served my nickel, now let me get mine. It was that's where that's where the mission is. So I was in early years. Those are the early years of battle. You know, and that's I would I would get really agitated at people that weren't mission forward at the time. And I stayed that way for a long time. Now I'm far more balanced, you know. Um because I've I've done the full gamut, you know. I've done I've been frontline, I've been operational, I've been strategic, I've done CMO. I was in the Seattle Riots as a SF Starting major. Shit. Yeah, I've I've I've done the whole the whole gamut. And uh I see I see the cost up front, I see the the cost on the back side, especially see the cost on the back side. So I'm not I get when the young guy is chomping at the bit to get out there. Um and I know no matter what I tell him, it's not gonna satiate that that desire. No. Because everybody every young man in the history of young men feels a need to prove himself. Especially after you go through a year to two years of training, you want to put those skills to the test. 100% get.

SPEAKER_00: 36:02

Nobody does it for practice. Nobody does it.

SPEAKER_03: 36:04

The only thing you can do is present possible outcomes. Like, okay, you want to do that. This is what could happen on the backside. And um, with my own experience, uh, as much cool stuff as I've done, there's a cost to everything. You know, I've been I'm not stereotypical old school SF dude that's been married four times. Where I'm not stereotypical is I didn't find myself at the bottom of the bottle. I'd you know, I I went and got help instead of eating a block.

SPEAKER_00: 36:36

Dude, let's um let's talk about that. That's um that's something that I I found really important to talk about. Um Navigating divorce, navigating that perceived failure, and how did you go through that and not fall to the wayside with alcohol, with drugs? What were some of the things that you leaned on instead? Sex. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 37:05

Yeah. I uh especially when I was downrange beforehand, man. Uh it was very comforting to to find uh a Baghdad 10 and just be in her bed and and and be held. You know, that that was that was my that was my drug, if you will. And I was gone so much that uh it wasn't that difficult. And on honestly, being let's face it, dude, uh it's not that hard if you're a Green Beret. Between the people skills that they train us and just having that resume bullet right there out front. It's you could be an ugly Green Beret and you're you're still gonna do all right. I I disagree with you, sir. I did not do well. I mean, if if you want to, right? And to any family members that are happening to have seen this, it's not I remember when I was in the Q course, there was a book that came out that was real controversial called The Company They Keep. And um, it was written by a really educated person, uh female that got embedded with the team, and a lot of SF dudes were really upset about it, not just because there was an embedded writer, but because um she their impression was that she made it look like she made it sound like every SF dude was out there cheating on his wife every time he went on a J set or went overseas or anything else. And that's not the case. Uh I have seen that culture. I've been a part of that culture. Um, and I know you have because 100% live in La Vita Loca in Colombia.

SPEAKER_00: 38:53

But yeah. No, it's true. It it what I witness though, it's for some for some teams, it's dictated by who's in charge. Yeah, 100%. It's dictated by who's in charge. And I'm not throwing anybody under the bus. I will say this. I had a business upfront team sergeant in South America. I had just as much fun, but it was never an issue. Everybody knew what the what the primary thing was, and the rule was like, hey, uh, you can have fun. But 4 a.m., we're executing movement and we're gonna go train, we're gonna go be with our partner force. I had an amazing time. I saw and did amazing things, but it was business up front, and the team sergeant kept everybody in line. I did another trip, and the team sergeant was insane, absolutely batshit insane. So what was what was what what happened? Chaos, absolute fucking chaos. So if the leadership is all about business up front and and and understands that guys want to go, want to have dinner, want to go do and see things, it'll find a way that so guys can get excited and enjoy stuff. But if the person in charge is a live wire, insane, out of his fucking mind, what do you think the team culture is gonna be? Yep. Yeah. Yeah, the team sergeant does set the culture.

SPEAKER_03: 40:18

That's what I didn't like about Twell Strong, by the way. I'm sorry. You could not tell like who the fuck the team sergeant was. Yeah. Just Thor, the Thor, the team leader, riding you know, in a World War II cavalry, Polish cavalry charge against T-72. He's like, come on, man. Like, I know some of those guys. That is not how this happened.

SPEAKER_00: 40:38

Didn't give any any time to explain who was who and highlight the team sergeant. Because I'm sorry, that's the that that is the the the fucking figurehead. That is the dad. That is the end-all be-all. It is a trinity. You have a team sergeant, you have a warrant, you have a captain, but it's the team sergeant. He's the end-all be-all. That is man is gonna bring your guys home. That's the dude you rally around. And they never did that. And that's why it doesn't get my thumbs up of a like if you want to watch Chris Hemsworth without his Thor hammer, go watch it. If you want a real story, you gotta dig deeper. You gotta go read the book. Uh Doug Stanton, great guy.

SPEAKER_03: 41:19

Yeah, probably it's calling. All right, back. That was weird. Uh like a medical assistant called me back for my grandpa, but she just regurgitated exactly what I told her and then said she'd tell the doctor. I'm like, okay. All right. Well, thanks. Yeah. Let's go back to uh, you know, we're we're talking about some of the mental health stuff. Yeah. So not just sex. Like that was that was part of it. But the other thing that I took was deployment. Being running to the next mission was how I coped. Um and when things got really bad for me, you know, I've gone through a lot of therapy at this point, as you know. And um it was it was kind of a slow burning fuse from 2022. And um the actually probably 2020. So I finished that last trip, came back from Korea, 2019, started transitioning back to civilian life, but then 2020 happened. Mostly peaceful uh riots and whatnot, and I'm living in Seattle. Yeah. Um and getting activated for that uh broke broke a barrier that I had set for myself. I always had my downrange life and my home life. And now I'm in a combat zone six miles from my front door. And so I didn't have that safe space anymore. Um, and that uh that that kind of warped my my safety boundaries a little bit. Um you combine that with uh I had for the contracting side, I'd I had to go through some uh court-ordered psychabals for uh for a court case that was going on, and that dug up everything that I had put five layers of dirt on. Because I, you know, I knew that I knew that I had PTSD. I knew that I had PTSD from the day that I was in my home at home and living room, in my living room in 2007, and I heard a backfire on the street, and I got flat on my floor, and the rest of my family is looking at me like I'm crazy. And in my mind, I'm like, you're at home. That was a backfire. But my body was like, shut up. Body keeps a score, man. It's locked in there. And I'm you know, I'm high crawling, I high crawled to the front door and I look out, and my family's just looking at me like, oh my god, this is like a Vietnam guy we saw on TV.

unknown: 44:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 44:10

But I always had it my mind, like, I I will talk to somebody about this when I'm done, because if I get help now, I'm gonna dull my edge. And I need to stay razor sharp. Been a lot of money invested in me, and if I don't go, who's gonna go? Those were all my justifications for not getting help when I did. When I should have. What I what I preach to people now is you don't wait till your edge is worn down to a nub before you take it back to the blacksmith, right? You will be a sharper tool and be more useful in the long run if you go in and and talk to people about things that are bothering you or whatever in route, right? You can stay operational longer if you don't run yourself into the ground. And um I don't know that I think people hear that, but they don't adhere to it. And I think our command is probably partly to blame on that because they are when you've got a two-year command cycle, the that that race starts for that commander the second he he accepts that flag. And so everything else is kind of secondary.

SPEAKER_00: 45:40

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03: 45:40

I'm not saying all commanders are bad, but there have been some that are like, okay, well, do whatever you want with that guy. If he's not operational, I don't have time for him. That's we can put on every SOCOM pamphlet that's ever been printed, humans are more important than hardware. But until the command starts believing it, it's useless. It's just uh it's just a slogan.

SPEAKER_00: 46:03

And unfortunately that the the guys have gotten to the point where they don't believe it. Even when uh you know there's there's guys that are really working hard to change that, we have to change the culture and we have to like it's it's sad, man. You get great leaders and they do mean it and they put a lot of time and effort into it, and they try and try and try, but as soon as they switch over, the next guy is in the seat and he doesn't care, it just goes right back. Restarts again, right?

SPEAKER_03: 46:33

Yep. Yeah, I do have a solution, you know. Sorry, major talking here. Well, don't bring my problem, bring your solution to get off my grid. I do have a solution. The army is very good at sending their um their future leaders on the officer side to get their master's degree and you know, command staff, college, and and I le and all of this, right? Where are these educational? We get online SSD, which we get two PE credits for, you know? Yeah. Meanwhile, they're getting their master's degree so I can go work at Northumber Gremlin Lated.

SPEAKER_02: 47:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 47:12

But now it's bitter about that imbalance at all. But in the midst of that time away from the teams, or you know, on the conventional side, their platoon, their company, whatever, right? In that educational time, that personal development time, make them go to counseling. Yeah. Make them. Don't make it voluntary, make them go to therapy. Because that's the only way they're ever gonna understand the other side of that coin. And where that's the only way they're ever gonna truly understand that humans are more important than hardware. Because I'll tell you, I was a team sergeant for five years, and I did not have a lot of patience for anybody that could that was running over a 14-minute two-mile. Yeah, right. And while I I was the first to fight to the death for my guys, everything was mission. Everything. So if if that's happening at a team level, imagine what's happening at the company level or the battalion level. Yeah. God forbid the group level. So I I think that's I think that's a a first step is make senior leaders go to go to therapy whether they want to or not.

SPEAKER_00: 48:25

Yeah, and and right along the same lines, freaking guys need to start taking care of themselves. Like how many injuries, how many injuries did you uh cover up throughout the entirety of your career? Bro, what are you talking about? I didn't have any injuries until two years ago. That's everybody I talked to, even if they had major surgeries. I've I've known guys that have gone to Germany to have operations. They paid out of begged out of pocket to have surgeries overseas. And it's like, fuck, dude. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 49:02

Yeah, so I've the VA just diagnosed me with ADHD, which I've known I've had since my son was diagnosed when he was eight years old. You know, how did I know? Because his signs and symptoms were everything that I struggled with my entire life. I don't know how I became an 18 Delta, really don't, because me and studying are just I don't know. It's a weird thing. Sometimes you got hyperfocus, sometimes you're shiny things all over the place. But even with that diagnosis, like um, and I I had I had a civilian diagnosis in a in a script that was completely off the books before before MH Genesis, right? And that helped me out. But I was talking to my battalion a few years back. He's like, you don't want that diagnosis. I said, I don't. He's like, you'll be non-deployable. Like, I've tried to do it. He said, he tried to do it himself. He said, there's so many waivers you gotta jump through to be deployable if you're if you're on if you got that diagnosis and you've got a script. I said, we get downrange, you're giving us amphetamines to stay awake on missions. He's like, I didn't say it made sense. I'm just telling you how the system works.

SPEAKER_00: 50:12

It makes I don't understand it because we got pro-vigil to keep you up. On the back side, I'm getting treated for retarded brain syndrome, having TBI, and they prescribe me pro-vigil under the different name, Armodafinil. And it's like, make it make sense. Like, no, no, no. Your brain's fuck now. Now, when you take this, it'll help regulate you. It's like, what the fuck? Like, the amount of medications, too, is insane. Insane. I mean, I'm sure that you're starting to see it now as you're going through this process, and they just start just like typing in, like, here's your new script. Go find it.

SPEAKER_03: 50:59

That is the most medications I've ever been on in my life. And being an 18 Delta, the only 18 Delta on the team, I could prescribe myself whatever because I had everything. I didn't. Did not. But which is another problem with the medical records. If you're an 18 Delta, you're just treating yourself. Yeah. And there's no 600 on it. But yeah, they had me on. When I went in inpatient, they had me on hydroxine for sleep, Adorax for uh dopamine receptor control, Exapro for depression. It was a big three, but I know there was other ones. Here's something weird they don't tell you. When you're when your mind starts getting right, your guts start getting right as well. I have uh I had IBS for like three or four straight years. Couldn't figure out what's wrong with me. Hunter 7 heard about it. They're like, Mike Glad, you got colon cancer. Yeah, you asshole's falling out. Screening, negative. Bro, it was that was my blood-brain barrier. Once I started getting right up here, things started getting better with my gut.

SPEAKER_00: 52:22

People don't understand how those two are connected. Um fight or if you constantly live in fight or flight, you're not gonna be having the greatest bowel movements. No, man. And that's something that many of us, I mean, it's not a popular thing to go in a team room and be like, hey, I just had an SGB and now I'm not in the verge of shitting my pants 24-7. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 52:46

I'm glad you brought that up, man, because uh our buddy Ignacio called me up one day. I don't know if you know this, but Ignacio, Garza, Sergeant Major's SF Foundation. I was just saying that for your audience. We were on the same team in selection. No shit. Uh and then he was a class ahead of me in the Delta course. But he just called me up one day. This is when I was before I went to Iraq in 23, but I was really on the struggle bus. He just called me up and said, here's the address, here's the time. We've already paid for it. Get yourself there, right time, right place, right uniform. He paid, he just he scheduled me an SGB. He didn't ask if I wanted one, he scheduled me one. And um, when I got that, boy, did they hit bullseye? Because I looked like I had Bellis palsy for yeah, a hot minute. Um, but dude, dude, that was such I was so I was hurting so bad. As soon as I got that, it was like you know, when you're on like a 12 or 20 mile ruck and somebody lifts your rucksack up, that's what it felt like. It felt like somebody lifted my rucksack up, and it was the first good night of sleep I'd had in X amount of time. The problem with that is when I tell people that the people that are actually comfortable with getting a dart in their neck, uh they they do that and they think, okay, I'm good.

unknown: 54:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 54:13

And SGB is a band-aid. It gives you the time and space to work on other things. Yes. Hundred fucking percent. You know, if your legs are wearing out and you've got to live something else up, you're not gonna be able to do it with your rucksack still on. Right? So it gives you enough time and space to work on other stuff. But if you think, oh, I had an SGB, I'm good now.

SPEAKER_00: 54:35

Good.

SPEAKER_03: 54:35

No, you still gotta do the work. You still gotta do work. Yeah, it's that's the that's the problem with with the band-aids, right? Is that they are band-aids. You still got that underlying trauma, and you've got to go and figure out when you're gonna do that work. I remember when I when I accepted that US operation in in Iraq, I was doing some pretty plummet training at Bragg. What is it, SAMTC? Special Operations Mission Training Center.

SPEAKER_01: 55:03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03: 55:03

Yeah. I ended up linking up with uh Tom and Jen Satterley and Lauren Manley and T Mac and whatnot, you know, the the usual corner at O'Donnell's. Um because at the time my civilian job was I was charitable giving manager for Black Rifle Coffee. Okay. Uh I was I was meeting with them so I could uh pledge a a sponsorship for one of their uh for for camp home front via via Black Rifle. Tom said, so when are you gonna get some help? And I'm like, I'm good, man. And I knew I wasn't, right? But I felt good at the time because I had this mission, and that's exactly what I said. I was pretty honest. I was like, I'm good for now, man. I've I've got a mission, I've got purpose. I'm all eyes forward right now. But I didn't finish that mission. I I cracked open towards the end of that thing.

SPEAKER_00: 56:03

Oh man, yeah. Let's dive into that a little bit, man. Uh I think a lot of guys find themselves in that trap. I got something to I I'm taking care of the boys. I I'm uh I'm gonna finally get my team sergeant shot. I'm here taking care of the guys, I'm doing everything I can to give them the best, the best team experience. And at the end of the day, that guy's going home to nobody. Doesn't have a wife, doesn't have kids, very empty. There's maybe some drinking, maybe some going out. There's like eventually that's gonna crack. Like if you put too much emphasis on the teams keeping me alive, the missions keeping me alive, you're gonna break at some point, man. I know I did. And it wasn't pretty. It was really fucking shitty. Like it's hard to stand up and say, like, Lower Ridge saved my life. Going inpatient, absolutely saved my life. Because I had an active plan. Like, and the one thing about our community, it's if we don't find vulnerability, if the right P3 therapist doesn't ask and and doesn't forge that bond with you, doesn't say the right thing, you're gonna follow through. We don't have the greatest numbers, but the ones that the the studies show that when our guys, our community of guys come to that point, they execute. We got to get you before that. We got to get you, this has to resonate with you. You gotta be willing. You're willing to go to fucking dive school, you're willing to drown, you're willing to go to a fucking free fall school, you're willing to go to sniper course, you're willing to do all these things. Be willing to go inpatient, be willing to go talk to a doctor, talk to a provider, be willing to be honest for a little bit. Just be vulnerable. Learn that it's okay to open up to people and say, I need fucking help. Because it's part of being a warrior. Like none of us that have done this job, and and and tears right here. He's done it the longest. And if he's willing to sit here and say, hey man, there is a threshold. There is a limit to your suffering before you break. I'm telling you, it's human. We're human beings. None of us are impervious to this.

SPEAKER_03: 58:13

But the good news is It's not a challenge. It is not a challenge to find that threshold. Yeah. You don't need you don't need to push yourself till you find that that breaking point. There's a lot of other things you can do there. Dive school, you know, other selections, everything else to find where your limit might be. But don't don't go all goggins with your mental health.

SPEAKER_00: 58:36

God's sakes. He ain't got no cartridge on his fucking knees.

unknown: 58:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 58:42

Everything's got a cost. Yeah. Did it. Hey, take us through that experience, man. Like what finally got you to say, yes, I'm gonna go to this hospital. I'm gonna go inpatient.

SPEAKER_03: 58:54

So uh through my own fault, I found myself at the end of my fourth marriage, which had really just started. I'd been engaged uh for a couple years, and then when that Iraq mission came up, I felt like it was a supremely bad idea to go downrange with a fiance instead of a wife. Not because of anything I wanted, but because she, if anything happened to me, she wasn't getting anything. And she also wouldn't have any dependent benefits at all while to support her while I was gone. I'm not just talking about healthcare, just just you know, everything that goes into family adequacy and and whatnot. So we got married real quick right before I deployed. Um but before I deployed, I cheated on her with uh an ex girlfriend. Why did I do that? It wasn't because I was like, yeah, I still got it. It was because I was grasping at anything to make me feel better. And that chick reached out. I know no, I know. Now know that she reached out with a grand scheme of breaking us up. Um, but I fell for it, man. I fell for the trap. And um so that was the impetus for for that split. And when that happened, it also happened when uh the local chapter Hamas was getting real spicy in the neighborhood. Oh shit. So we're talking just post uh October of 2023. So when everything kicked off between uh Gaza and Israel again. Well, I can never pronounce this right. Kitab Hezbollah, is that good enough. Yeah, we just call it KH. The cool kids call it KH. Um they they had us targeted, they had and they had us bracketed fairly well. We had um a good uh a good selector that um had indicated that we were gonna get hit at this time this night. And uh I was not a stranger to incoming man. I was I was in Iraq for the entire surge. Um and and then some. You know, I I had my fair share of income. I've I've I've done casualty care under fire of 107 rockets, like literally shielding a casualty with a 107 going overhead. So this isn't new to me, right? But this particular time this might be one of my greatest failings in the military is we've got uh uh credible intel that we're getting hit at this time uh tonight. And rather than uh get everybody ready as the camp sergeant major, I I sat there frozen in my trailer and I I just broke down crying and and I was I was ashamed of who I was at that moment, both at home and in Iraq, and I was uh and I was equally welcoming that hit. Like if this rocket could just hit this trailer right now, everything would be better. My kids are gonna get 400k or 500k, whatever SGLI is now. Um and I can finally get some rest. Because bro, I was tired. I was so tired. Uh the rocket didn't come and so I had to take things into my my own hands, and I made a plan of I I was gonna shoot myself with the Glock and I was gonna do it at the far end of area four where the trash pile was. Um but I started thinking through the logistics of what happens after that. Yeah. Because I'm not leaving a note, right? Uh I I just thought that was too dramatic. Like, so I started thinking what happens after that. I'm like, okay, so guys can't find me. They and I'm sharing a hooch with my with my commander, so he's gonna notice I'm missing first. Um it's probably gonna be the Grom guys, because they they run out there on the range. One of them's gonna find me. Um and that's probably easier on them, but it's probably gonna be the US dudes that have to bag me up and bring me back. And that's gonna be seared into their memory for the rest of their lives. And then, and this is kind of the the lighter side of suicide aliations. So I told you we did our pre pre-deployment training at uh Psalm TC. Our uh our J1 had to step out and uh was crying in the bathroom during Sam TC. And I don't know this for a fact, but being the operation sergeant major for that particular training mission, in my mind, what I put two and two together is we just taken fake casualties, simulated casualties on the big screen. And her being the J1, she had to start the the um casualty notification paperwork and processing fake dead bodies, and I think that got to her. And uh in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, so it's long tap dudes that pick me up and bag me. Uh in, you know, orchid affairs right across the street at uh BDSC, so that's not that big of a deal. But she's gonna have to process this paperwork. She's not gonna be able to do it. Like this is gonna jack her up. Somebody else is it's augmented the J1 is gonna have to come in. Nobody, nobody in this unit has ever done any kind of casually affairs. Like this is first off, it's gonna jack her up for the rest of her life. Second, the paperwork's probably not getting it done right, and it's gonna take months, if not years, to straighten all this out. That is what gave me the time and space to go, I need some help. That was the initial. The second was if I do this, this is my legacy. I've got uh 28 years of of kicking ass, more or less. But this is my legacy. Every every deployment I've ever had away from my kids, they don't get to see the people I've saved or the missions I've led, or the stuff that's still classified. They will never know that. What they will know is what they have to tell a therapist every week about their dad taking the easy way out. And that ultimately is why I walked up to my PA when he came back from the med mission one night in that little kitchen and said, I need to talk to somebody. That's that's what did it. It wasn't for me. It wasn't for me. It was for it was initially for my staff and teammates, and then for my kids. That's that's that's what saved my life was my kids.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:11

Yeah. I'm glad you you're here with us, brother, and I'm glad and and thank you for sharing that, but being vulnerable enough to walk us through the mindset of a SAR major when he's in his darkest place.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:27

There's I'm I'm always uh taken a little surprise by when I talk to somebody and they're like, oh yeah, I went to Laurel Ridge. Like, there's there's a lot of us that have made the right decision there, but I don't and I'm not saying that everybody needs to go out and wear this on their sleeve, right? You know, what's yours is yours. But I feel like for me, with the platform I have and the resume I have, I'm doing the community an incredible disservice if I don't talk about this and try to set an example. And because there's a lot of times where I have not been a good example. But in this right here, for both people still in uniform and people out, guys need to know that if if a special forces sergeant major who's done all this other stuff that is either above board or not talked about at all, if he can take that step and get help and talk about it, then why can't they? You know? Why not me? And it they need to know the whole backstory, like, yeah, I knew I needed help, but I was busy. You know? There was another thing that I had a thing to do, I'll get it later.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:38

Everybody has to find their way in that journey. Everybody. I can't I can't force you to go to it. But I realized what I can do is find people that are willing to give you a glimmer or a glimpse into their mindset, into what they've gone through, and and give you, you know, real truthful, honest insight into their journey. Because I I feel that there's a puzzle piece in everybody's story that we can all share, and it might fit within. And if I can't, if my story doesn't resonate with you, I know maybe tears will. And and and that's something that we need to be able to focus on, not just the the cool guy stories on YouTube, because that's never gonna bring anybody back from the break.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:22

Oh, to me, this is a cool guy story. You know, it may not recruit people into the regiment. I mean, we need that too. But these are the this is stories that we'll save somebody. The dudes with tabs, both long and short, they need to hear this.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:40

They need shit, man. The the the four-year O311 needs to hear this. Yes. So it's um there's no excuse for somebody not to get help, whether they're in or out. Guys that are still in don't get help because one, they don't want to dole their edge, which is less of an excuse now because we're not kinetic anywhere. Right? Um, or they're afraid it'll affect their security clearance. Yes. You know, that's a big one. And that's a policy issue right there. Like I've seen the SF-86 more from you better not have any mental health uh counseling at all, to oh, you had marriage counseling. Yeah, everybody has that. That's fine. Well, it needs to switch to good instead of what was it about? I've had four years of counterintelligence training. I wear white socks with my dress shoes. Tell me about your sentiment issues.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:44

It's real life, man. And and the best individuals that I have served with, like, they're they're coming into service with things. That's a reality. Like a lot of our guys, yeah, they're not coming in here with a clean slate. They're they're they're carrying some shit in on that back already. Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:04

That's whether the army admits to it or not, we recruit for that. Yes, we recruit for it. Yeah, especially in special forces.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:13

There's actually a book about it, uh, Deep as Well, talks about ACES, and that that that's that that child, that individual that grew up with all those the all that adversity has the potential to have this amazing post-traumatic growth that makes them very, very attractive to special operations. And our psyches have tapped into that because they know that Johnny uh was grew, you know, grew up in gang culture. And Johnny's mom was an addict, and his dad wasn't home, and he had to steal for food and beg, plead, and borrow to get money. And he figured out a way to survive on the streets, but he never got arrested. He never got addicted to drugs. Then he went into the Marine Corps and then went to Force Recon, then found himself in being in the Marine Corps or and being in the special forces. Um, that individual exists and he does really well. But after seven, eight deployments, he needs help. Yeah, it's okay to say that, yeah, you deserve the heal, brother. You deserve to get better. All of us do. And it's I think it's part of the warrior culture to finally at some point come back into the fire, take a knee, and say, brothers, like, how can I get help? And then guys like us can say, like, hey, here's some options, whichever one you want to go to.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:27

So many options out there. And for the guys, you know, just segue off that security crance thing, there are programs out there that are non-attributable. They're already paid for. There's no reason. All Secure Foundation does it, and uh the Special Forces Trust does it. That's two right off the top that specialize just for our community. But there's other ones out there that do first responders and whatnot. Uh Charitable Trust is called Beyond the Battlefield, and all Secure Foundation. If you just hit them up and me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:54

Yep. Special Forces Foundation, um, hit them up. Uh, if you need anything, reach out. Like the the amount of support that is right there, dude. I'm telling you right now, Cody is just chomping at the bit, waiting for you to call to reach out. I want to know where he finds the time, man. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's because we love each other. We really, at the end of the day, we love our community and we don't want you struggling. We don't want you. You're you're valuable to me, even if I don't know you and I never met you. I I'm our community is better and our nation is better with you around. So take this to heart. Understand that if you're listening to this and you're suffering right now, we want you to get better. All you have to do is find that little bit of vulnerability, find that little bit, lean into it, and ask for help. And the moment you ask, man, shit's gonna start opening up. You have access to care, and you're gonna have a million fucking people to reaching out to you trying to figure out like what you need, where you want to go. Um, and it can be a lot, it can be frustrating, but know that it's coming from a great place. People really do care about you and they want you around. Um, I I'm fortunate to be a part of Special Forces Foundation and and constantly champion them. Reach out, man. Even if it's in the DMs of Instagram or Facebook, just reach out if you need help. I get we're gonna get to there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:18

I've I've had a few DMs that have made a difference. I mean, there's DMs, I get DMs all the time for supporting me, especially after my last post. People are like, uh, Peter, are you alright? I'm like, yeah, it was a rough morning. But I I have had some DMs where I've like I've been able to link them up with resources, and um that's that's the positive side of social media. That's the beautiful thing about the brotherhood. I do want to uh pimp out um boot campaign because they will take anyone and everyone, and for special operations guys that are not uh of the green gray variety, yeah, you've got all secure foundation and uh sock F. SOCF is a fantastic nonprofit that will help anybody from the soft community to include contractors.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:06

Hell yeah. Yeah, which is a really overlooked community. Yes, it is. Uh had Morgan Lorette on the show and talking to him about that. I mean, there's a lot of guys that I mean they're the it's ingrained in G Wonk culture. Those guys were there, they were in the fight. And when you look at that group of and look at that community especially, there's not a lot of resources. There's not like Eric isn't standing up a new nonprofit to support his dudes. I don't know why. I don't know. Let's let's let's figure that out, Eric. Those guys, they uh they did a lot for you. Let's bring in some of that money, let's stand something up. It's it it it it frustrates me to see and hear the stories because it's such a small group, it it deserves to have its resources, and the guy that kind of started it all, he's still here, he still has a shitload of money. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:58

You might have to go to Dubai for the program, but you know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:04

Man, I'd love to have him on the show. I'd love to figure out just tap into that mindset because uh I just saw the headline. Yeah, hit up the Pope, be like, hey uh, you know, Nigerian Christians are dying at a rapid rate. You should hire us. I'm like, come on, come on, guy. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:22

So the the Blackwater community from from like the surge area, yeah. Era when it was still Blackwater, not the artist formerly known as Blackwater, which I've I've done both. Like Blackwater Light. The last time I was a BW independent contractor, uh my contract was through Z, X E. My paycheck came from U.S. Training Center, and I had to sign an NDA with Academy with an I. It was a weird time.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:58

Some order of that, it doesn't really matter. But um we we've lost 43 Blackwater dudes. Uh kinetically. It's out of uh force that's like in the in the low hundreds. That's a lot. That's a lot. And um we've I don't know if we've excited exceeded that number by suicide yet, but it's getting up there. When when I I hate answering phone calls, but I'm afraid not to answer a phone call because when when those guys reach out to it, it gives a 50-50 shot of whether or not they're telling me that somebody's dead. Um so yeah, the contract community d deserves that support. You know, a lot of those guys did the same jobs as as military. Just under a different set of rules. Sometimes the uneducated military guy looks at him as mercenaries or you were just there for the money. I just said I wasn't, right? I was there because I wanted to do the job. Or they look at him as like, oh yeah, but you made all that money tax-free. That money is not tax-free. It's not. I found out the hard way. No, dude, I'm still clearing up taxes from contractor deployments. And I haven't done that in 12 years.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:28

Shout out to Morgan, because we we we dove into his story, and I'm like, dude, you you must be loaded now. He's like, Well, actually. Yeah. And he broke it down. I'm like, fuck, dudes again. Taxes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:39

Yeah, let me lay that. Let me lay some starting major knowledge on the line. Yeah, look, if you think you're gonna get out after being in a marine security guard for four years and go make your fortune as a contractor, sure, you are not. Take that jab and you'll go. Take that job you'll go to college, especially if you're married with children, because all that money you got there, you think your wife doesn't go, we can now afford these new Valances and this new thing for the house, and blah, blah, blah. Like everything, when you when that check rolls in, when all of a sudden there's five digits in your checking account instead of four, the standard of living at home goes up to compensate for you not being there. And even if you've got an agreement, there's only one time I've really seen this work out, and that is my friend Willie Blazer up in Ennis, Montana, who uh he and his wife started Willie's distillery. He contracted just long enough to get the seed money for that distillery. Nice. And now he's doing well.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:36

Now I knew uh one guy, um he did it right. He contracted, saved up all the money he needed, and then used that money to be very frugal while he was going to uh school to become a doctor. So yeah, yeah. You can do it, but I mean, it's not the guys that are living a lavish lifestyle. It's the guy that's like, I'm getting sandwiches and noodles, and I'm stockpiling this money, and I'm I'm working and using my benefits to make insane money as a doctor. Um it's it's the ones that go for the boring, but with the big payout. Um, but yeah, get getting your education is a great, great deal. Um, especially if you use that education to give back. Because we like I say all the time, we are we're still in the shortage of uh providers, and who better to talk to a veteran than another veteran? Like it's um so if guys are willing to do that, and you can do it in so many different ways. Hell, you don't have to go to school, get a certification of peer-to-peer support. That's my goal.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:38

I I I want to do that. I've been willing to do that. Uh, but I recognize that I'm still putting, you know, I'm still putting my own mask on. Yes, yes. And it's not that I'm really on the struggle lost now, it's that I'm in this period of transition that I don't think, especially with grandpa movement and whatnot, I don't think I could put one more thing on my plate.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:00

No, brother. No.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:02

And that's an important thing for people to recognize is it is okay to say no.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:07

100 fucking percent.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:08

And then especially if you got the resume, man. Things are gonna you once you've got our attention, things are gonna start coming your way and you're gonna get slow a lot of things, you've gotta be able to say no.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:18

Yeah. Dude, I am I I can't thank you enough for making time for this today, man. Um, yeah, you're someone that I I've wanted to sit down with for a very long time because not only do people respect you and love you and hold you to high regard, but you're somebody that, like I said earlier, you've we barely scratched the surface of it, but you've seen this G Watt era through from the very beginning all the way through the end. And who better to talk us through it than than you? So I'm excited to see what else you get into, especially other podcasts in your own writing, because as we shared when we were talking uh over the phone, man, like your story needs to be told. Not just you're you at home, you as well, but you know, your story needs to be told so we can understand what it the the full impact and and and hear all the the inside stories and everything you experience, man. Because flipping hats throughout the entirety of this 20-year war, like, dude, I I know there's got to be stories that are gonna make me say, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:17

There's a lot of passport stance in the thing. A lot of passport stands. Yeah, yeah. Let's do this again, man, because not everything is uh, you know, needs to be doom and gloom. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, man. Really important for people to know that the help's out there and and they they need it, whether they believe it or not.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:31

But there's also some some laughs to be had. Absolutely, brother. Absolutely. And just remember, man, you don't have to have a plan for tomorrow or the next day, dude. In this period, just take a day by day. And uh one piece of advice for every QTC appointment, bring all your documents. I don't care what anybody said, every appointment, they never had any of my medical records. And I walked in there with a backpack, but like, you don't have any of my yeah, it's not loaded. And I feel like so many guys get fucked over. So I was like, well, I I have my records with me. It's like so they always just went off what I brought. So that's free chicken right there to you. If you're retiring anytime soon, getting out medically retired, bring all your stuff because every appointment they were going off my notes. Um, so and and please, please, please be informed about traumatic brain injury, TBI, operator syndrome. Take five seconds out of your day-to-day, go check it out. I mean, it's super easy. I got a blog on my my website, go check it out. It's still under development in the redesign. I just approved the final redesign, so it's still the old logos, but by next month, hopefully. So, but the blog is still there. Still under development. There you go. Free, free of charge. Man, thanks again for being here, brother. I can't thank you enough. Um, if people want to get a hold of you, where can they go?

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:55

Red Leader Standing By is my Instagram. It is uh sometimes it is occasionally shadow banned, so you have to put in red leader underscore standing by. Uh, I'm under true name there, tier simactyr, s y and k. Make sure it's uh dude with a cowboy hat and a mustache, or you're talking to a Nigerian. I got a lot of Nigerian fans out there.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:20

Hell yes, not gonna go find them, dude. Again, thank you so much. And everybody listening and tuning in, thank you so much. Please do me a favor, check us out on Spotify and Apple and leave us a review of five stars. I'd really appreciate it. And check out our sponsors. Doing another giveaway here pretty soon. So stand by and get ready to support us because you're gonna get some free shit, some free stuff, some swag. Who knows? I'm Danny Caballero. Thank you for tuning in, and we'll see y'all next time. Until then, take care. SecureDob Podcast is proudly sponsored by Titan's Arm. Head of the episode description and check out TitanStarms today.