Security Halt!
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Security Halt!
The Untold Truth About Operator Syndrome – Dr. Kate Pate Reveals How Warriors Heal
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In this compelling episode of the Security Halt Podcast, we delve into the profound topics of PTSD and mental health, exploring their significant impacts on individuals and communities. Join us as Dr. Kate Pate shares her insights and experiences, shedding light on the often-overlooked aspects of these conditions. Through personal stories and expert analysis, we aim to foster understanding and provide hope for those affected. Tune in to discover how knowledge and empathy can pave the way for healing and resilience..
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look at us technology, technology blessing and a curse oh man, yeah, I deal with this at least once once a week, um, but hey, thank you, riverside I think, thank you, I think I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think maybe I don't know, but yeah, think, maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1:But yeah, once you get started working with the individuals and and you gain rapport, they trust you. It's easy to see the same issues pop up from person to person. I mean, when I was still struggling with everything, I had the same view. I had the same view that only I had this. That I was weird. How dare I have any sort of issues? I must be messed up. Everything. I had the same view. I had the same view that only I had this. That was weird. How dare I uh have any sort of issues? I must be messed up. Everybody else is fine. What the hell is wrong? And I would?
Speaker 1:I have to imagine that when you are armed with knowledge, where you have information, you start thinking, okay, let's get butcher block out, let's start writing some stuff out, because something doesn't make sense. All these individuals have the same thing. Where did you start? How did you go make that switch from worrying? You know you're working with individuals trying to make changes in T, triple C in advance. You know great new things. How did you clear the slate and say you know what I got? There's? This seems pretty important. This seems like nobody's talking about it because 2015, 2016,. Nobody was talking about it.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, I mean it was kind of a gradual thing. Over the years I just started to become more and more concerned. And you know, I grew up with three older brothers and so a lot of the community members I interacted with were men. Of course there's women, brothers, and so a lot of the community members I interacted with were men. Of course there's women too, but in a lot of the spaces that I was working I didn't really see very many women, but a lot of the dudes that I was around, honestly it kind of felt like brothers to me in a lot of ways, like people just kind of brought me into the mix and like kind of treated me like a little sister in a certain sense and it created a sense of like connection with the community. That was, I think, really unique for me. But also I'm, you know, I'm tough in a lot of ways but I have a pretty big bleeding heart, that you know. When I see people that I care about suffering, it really bothers me and it compels me to want to do something if I can. Sometimes it's just literally being with a person and sitting there and there's nothing you can do to fix it, but if there's something you can do to help or to fix anything that's going on, why would you not? And so for me, as I started to kind of, you know, get drawn into the community, that I started to feel really just passionate about helping. My brother was a part of this community at the time. It was just like and again, you know, he and I never really talked about this kind of thing because it, you know, although I'm his sister, we didn't. You know, he wasn't sharing anything going on with him like that, just like very few people in the community were. But I think that as I started to see that I just was like you know what, there's enough, I want to be able to offer something. So as the years kind of progressed, I started to dive more and more into the research on.
Speaker 2:I had already my background. I had done a postdoc in my graduate degree was in respiratory neurophysiology and then as a postdoc I studied traumatic brain injury and spinal cord injury. So I had a lot of like the physical health knowledge and relevant information for TBI. But what I was missing was the mental health piece. I didn't understand PTSD. I didn't really know what that was. I didn't really understand what depression was. I didn't understand all these other things that people were experiencing. What depression was? I didn't understand all these other things that people were experiencing. But I started, as I investigated that I started to see the link between brain injury, chronic stress, toxic exposures and a lot of the you know, the subjective experiences that people were feeling. And so I tried to explain those links for my friends. I tried to share more and more about what I understood or what the pieces of the puzzle I saw fitting together. And then I looked into treatments. Well, what can we do about these things? And is our understanding of something like PTSD even really helpful for the community?
Speaker 2:And then Chris Free and colleagues eventually came out with Operator Syndrome the paper, the research paper. I think it was 2020. We were in the pandemic. It might have been 2021, around there. You know, we were kind of coming out of the pandemic and it was pretty impactful, but a lot of people hadn't read it. It was in the you know, peer-reviewed literature, so you know your average lay person isn't going to go find that and read it. And so I found this paper. I didn't know Chris at the time. I found this paper and then I saw some other write-ups around the same kind of thing.
Speaker 2:People may have remembered the Modern Warfare Destroys Brains document that came out as well and that was kind of referencing operator syndrome. They kind of referenced that cluster of symptoms that you know people were experiencing and this had a term all of a sudden. And so I remember creating on Instagram. I put, basically it was like operator syndrome. And then I put together the list of what Chris and his colleagues found to be commonalities as part of operator syndrome and I just made a quick little image, put it on Instagram and it blew up. I shared it on LinkedIn and it blew up and it was like wait, there's a term, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:And people were now all of a sudden checking boxes that they realized, oh my gosh, this is an actual um like thing that somebody studied. So I'm not the only one Cause, like you know, in my conversations with the community, I would tell people you're saying the same things that everybody else is saying. You're not alone. I want you to know that this is real and many people are also going through the same thing and people hear it, but it doesn't really land. Sometimes they're like yeah, yeah, you're just like blowing smoke trying to make me feel better. Some of them took it to heart, but some of them really just didn't grasp that that was the truth until this paper came out and until people started talking about it. And then it was like there's permission now to say something about this. And that was changing for so many people and I have a love-hate relationship with terminology because, like this, this is a perfect example of it gave people permission. They now had something to grasp and wrap their arms around. It made it real and that was so, so important for the community in so many ways.
Speaker 2:But the flip side of that is now it's something people are holding on to of. I'm expecting, to quote unquote have operator syndrome or everything that they experience is now under the umbrella of that, and it's all related to operator. It's like same thing, you see it, with post-traumatic stress disorder. When somebody gets that diagnosis, it becomes almost like an identifier for them and a part of who they are, rather than a thing that they're experiencing. And sometimes we can get hung up on the labels and I don't know in the long term if that's helpful for the individual. I think as scientists and clinicians, we have to have something that's defined in order to study it right. Like we can't, we have to agree upon something to study it After the initial relief. If they don't then move through it and beyond it, it can be something that they kind of hold on to and it becomes maybe more integrated with who they think they are instead of something that they're experiencing.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It's not a badge of courage. It's not something to put on like a warm, comforting jacket. Badge of courage. It's not something to put on like a warm, comforting jacket. It's just like the moniker of PTSD and disgruntled veteran. These aren't things that you identify with as your new identity. You're giving the enemy a name. Now you know what you're fighting. Go after it. Highlight the paper, understand every detail about the enemy and understand where you can go to get help.
Speaker 1:These diagnoses are incredibly helpful because they help you understand that you're not crazy. What you're going through now has definitions and terms. Well, look how they can improve. Look at all the things you can do to improve. And the thing that I love now is is before and to some extent still, the main thing that you're going to be funneled towards or pushed towards is pharmaceutical intervention. And look, I understand whatever you need to get started on the road to journey.
Speaker 1:I had to start with SSRIs. I don't advocate for them. I don't advocate for long-term pharmaceutical intervention, but I'm not going to sit there and say, like the guy that's dealing with something right now, if you need it and that's where your journey begins. That's where your journey begins, but it doesn't have to be the end all of your journey. Now more than ever, we have advocates talking about the importance of everything to get the mind, body and spirit back on track, and it really has to be multiple modalities, not just one thing. Don't just cling desperately to one thing. Be brave, be bold, be willing to look at every aspect. I was the asshole that said mindfulness wasn't gonna help me. I was a complete frigging asshole to that doctor at the Intrepid Spirit. And what did I get? My certification in Mindfulness? What do I teach and coach with Mindfulness?
Speaker 2:Love it.
Speaker 1:It's a beautiful story. When you get down to it, it's a beautiful story. I was dealing with incredible pain, suffering and misery and I wanted all I wanted was surgical intervention and the doctor told me maybe, maybe the pain will not go away. Are you willing to look at that and just understand it? I'm like, no, fuck you. Make the pain go away, carve me up, cut out my you know, make like as if they could just cut the pain out, and I told her that she was a complete idiot. That was stupid. I don't believe in mindfulness.
Speaker 1:And here I am, years later, understanding that, yeah, it works and and that's how our we have to change as individuals. Not just the scientists and the doctors are helping us, but individual, the patient. If you're suffering right now and you're being an asshole, take a look in the mirror. Man. Like. Sometimes we get in the way of our own healing, like on this journey, when you start looking at the enemy, whether it's TBI, moral injury, what were some of the things that you started leaning towards trying to explore more of? To give guys some of that personal autonomy for their own healing journey, because a lot of times, like you know, people still don't look at journaling and gratitude. These things are important for life, but turns out they are, and there's so many different things out there that we can do to take ownership of the problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's. It's. You know it's funny, it's not unique to this community that desire to want to have like a big change. Now it's, you know, I mean it's human nature. We like the small, daily, incremental practices seem like. You know, I don't need to invest in that. I want something that's going to make me feel very different in a very short period of time and so a lot. You know I don't need to invest in that. I want something that's going to make me feel very different in a very short period of time and so a lot. You know, as human beings, we discount.
Speaker 2:Okay, did you prioritize sleep and get good sleep and work on sleep hygiene? Do you eat well? Do you move? Do you get outside in sunlight? Do you journal, do you talk about? You know, like all these different things and people like no, no, no, yep, next, like next tool, please, and um, and so I I try to take an approach, cause I have worked with people across the spectrum of where they're at in their career, what they're willing to do, levels of desperation versus like real hope and um, energy and motivation to put small practices into place.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know how it is when you're in that place and someone, you just everything hurts. You're angry. You know you don't feel like yourself when someone tells you to journal and be mindful. You're like. You know it's, it's I get it like it's hard. You know it's like when someone's in a depression and somebody comes along like just be happy. You know it's like when someone's into a depression and somebody comes along and like, just be happy. You know, and it's just. That's not how we work. So I try to take the approach of like.
Speaker 2:When I work with people, I try to assess where they're at and what kind of phase they're in. Are they in that phase where they're just in pain and they need something to fix the pain before they can even get the motivation to do other things? There are tools that can help that person, but I do try to explain everything because I want to plant the seeds, like you had the experience with mindfulness. At the time you were like absolutely not, that'll never happen, not interested. But that seed was planted and later you revisited it, and so for me I say like, look, this may not be a tool for you today, but you need to know about it and you need to know why it's important, because I promise you you're going to come back to this one day, and so I try to go through the whole gambit of tools for people and there is, I think, a good order of operations to these tools.
Speaker 2:I think that if you can get you know your physical health addressed which often makes us feel better pretty quickly then everything you build on top of that is going to take root so much stronger. So, for example, psychedelics everybody's talking about that these days and I got into working in that space in 2018 with Heroic Hearts Project, doing research with them. I was their director of research and I see psychedelics as a really valuable tool and a very powerful tool. But so many times I've seen people who were in a really valuable tool and a very powerful tool, but so many times I've seen people who are in a really bad place and hurting and just in need of change go do that before they do anything else, and they do it and they do feel better. They do have some really powerful insights and then over time, they end up right back where they were because they didn't put anything else into practice.
Speaker 2:So did they have a good experience and a good outcome? Yes, was it worth it? Possibly, but did it ultimately lead to the change they were seeking? Not always, and in many cases no, because they didn't do all these other things, and so sometimes with people, and in many cases no, because they didn't do all these other things, and so sometimes with people. If you can get that really like solid foundation built, then when you go do these other things you're like primed to get the most out of it. It's just like acceleration from there, and so I like to try to start with the little things. I don't want to overwhelm people, but it's like little incremental things that you can do. Build that discipline muscle, especially in the soft community. Everybody's so used to regimental approaches to fitness and their skills that are required for their job and there's so much discipline around that, and I try to get people to apply that same discipline to a new task, which is taking care of yourself, prioritizing your health, and it's hard.
Speaker 1:Absolutely it's harder.
Speaker 2:It's hard for all of us. I don't know why that's harder for us to be disciplined about than other things, but that needs that same discipline needs to be applied, and then, you know, start with these incremental things, but for those people who are really in a dark place and really hurting, they do need a little bit of a win before they're really able to, you know, muster up the energy and motivation to do some of the things that require a lot more of them to keep it, to keep it going. One of the things I will say, though, is that sometimes, you work with people and they want to feel better, and they want something to change, and they're asking you for tools, and then there's this one thing that they're still unwilling to let go of, and you're like I could give you all the tools, but if you keep doing that thing, it's not gonna be very helpful, and a perfect example of this is alcohol. It could be anything else. Yeah, it could be anything else too. I mean, there's other things, but alcohol is the one.
Speaker 2:I have friends and clients who have pretty severe brain injuries, both like from concussions and sports, but also from blast, and they're asking me about tools, and they want to do psychedelics or they want HBOT or they want, you know, supplement ideas. And I'm asking what they're already doing and they're telling me that their sleep is horrible and all these things are terrible. And they're still drinking pretty regularly, and sometimes heavily, and caffeine and nicotine and all these things. And so I'm like, well, I hear you, could you potentially like decrease that and maybe abstain for a while? Because I can tell you that if you do all these things, they might work a little bit, but they're not going to fix that stuff that you're still doing. And when people have a hard time stopping, that's when the bigger question comes out about like, okay, do we need to talk about? You know what's underlying this behavior too, you know, can we address some of that as well, but it's, it's complicated. We humans man, we were the only species that needs a user manual. It's not easy.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny you bring up a user manual because there's there's one thing that I think you know we talk about mind, body and spirit. In spirit, in regards to the things that we have to address to really help ourselves come out of this, and the one domain that arguably a lot of us for the vast majority of my life I wasn't plugged into that, but it's the spirit we want to talk about and everybody has their own flavor. I'm just saying there is something to be said about plugging into that aspect and finding your operator's manual sort of speed on a daily basis. Um, is that something that you dove into? Because a lot of times we tend to visualize this as two separate entities. When it comes to healing. You have the science and and the medical field and then spirits all the way over here, but I think that they go well together. I think that by addressing the spirit side and understanding how that helps shape the mental health aspect, I think that it's a powerful force for good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean to me I see spiritual health as the backdrop for everything else. So you can talk about mental health, you can talk about physical health and to some extent, emotional health, but I think that's more tightly intertwined with the spiritual. But the spiritual is kind of the backdrop or maybe even the foundation. Just because people don't think about this very much, I guess some people do. And just because people don't think about this very much, I guess some people do, but a lot of times people don't.
Speaker 2:Your spiritual beliefs, how you connect with the unseen and wrestle with these existential questions that is a perspective that you look through when you're living your life. It colors every aspect of your life. If you believe that there's a higher power, if you believe that you're connected to it in some way, you're going to respond to adversity or potentially even life-threatening situations in a very different way than a person who believes that this is all there is and there's nothing after and there is no guiding hand in anything that. You know how we move through the world is colored by that. I was talking to a friend recently about this, about you know. He suffers greatly from pretty severe anxiety and he doesn't believe in a higher power and you know, for him it's kind of the physical world is what there is and science is kind of like the religion. You know, it's like that's what I believe in. And we were talking about spirituality, because I went back to school not that long ago to dive into philosophy and theology, because I wanted more tools for my toolbox.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was in a master's program not that long ago for this. I didn't finish it because work got in the way and everything, life and whatever. But I mean I was very purposeful about wanting to pursue this because I recognized I don't have as many tools in that toolbox to help people as I would like.
Speaker 2:And so I dove in, absolutely, I dove into this for my own personal growth, but to understand these tools to help people as I would like. And so I dove into this for my own personal growth, but to understand these tools to help others. And so he and I were talking and I was telling him about a friend of mine who worked through his anxiety through prayer and kind of leading, leaving it up to God and trusting that process. And I was explaining it to my friend not to try to influence him in any way, I was just offering a story and he asked me he's like do you think my anxiety is so bad? Because I don't have anything like that. And I was like I mean, you know you asked the question. I don't know, that's a question you have to wrestle with. You know, yeah, and possibly you know, possibly that that might be something that could contribute to worsening anxiety in somebody, if that is a you know, almost like this existential threat looms over their head all the time.
Speaker 2:I have other friends who don't believe in a higher power at all, who are unbothered by that, but again, some people might be bothered by it. So, yeah, I mean, it's huge and I believe that we're spiritual beings and so to not have some sort of framework for how to make sense of that. You're sort of just a leaf blown in the wind and you have no container for your experience, and especially for something like psychedelics, where sometimes you can have deeply spiritual experiences. If you don't already know what you believe or have a container for it, that can be very confusing and unsettling and you don't really know how to integrate it. So, to answer your question, that's a very long answer, but the answer is yeah. I think spiritual health and understanding what your spiritual beliefs are or aren't is critical. I don't think enough people are asking that question of themselves these days. I think we discount it in general as a society. We just don't put much stock in that anymore.
Speaker 1:Very true, Absolutely. It's crazy that when I say this all the time, when I look back at the guys that didn't struggle or didn't stumble as hard as I did, by and large individuals that were able to navigate injuries were able to navigate mental health issues faster and with more grace. That pillar of spirit was well-defined, well-structured. They knew where they were going. Every Sunday it was the pillar at their home. They had that concrete pillar. If their body failed, if their mind failed, they had that, it was up and for a lot of us it's a full body assault. Mental assault is the spiritual assault. There's nothing to fall back on. So if you go into this fight with that one pillar that is strong, that will get you through everything when everything else falls apart, you're going to pull through this. And one thing that I realized when you go into your healing intentionally and you're willing to explore and ask questions in every aspect of your healing, it eventually brings you up to this point where you're like you know I was practicing mindfulness and meditating and not going to church, and finally it became part of my family, it became part of rituals and it brought me back to my faith and I realized, okay, I pulled that string all the way through and it got me here.
Speaker 1:And praying the rosary is no different than doing a meditation. It's the same thing. And that's when I realized, okay, I'm already doing this, let's just get back into it. I've had a lot of friends that have that same discovery and that's what's made me a little bit more comfortable talking and being more open about it, Because at first it's almost easier to speak about everything else on earth versus talking about your spiritual journey, where you're at and what your faith is. It's almost like we made it this thing. That's like, oh, it's so taboo. But if you just speak about it from a place of where you're at in your own journey, what you're doing to make yourself better, I think it can help other people and enlighten and it affords somebody else the opportunity to feel comfortable sharing their own journey, which I find it's incredibly helpful to help somebody else feel comfortable what they're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's one of the things that I realized that if we're going to help and we're going to advocate, we're going to be able to talk about all aspects of it.
Speaker 1:Because we're losing so many people Just this month alone. We lost another guy recently, and suicide is something that we can't seem to find ourselves winning, or at least turning the tide. In your perspective, from your lived experience and everything that you do, what are some of the things that we can start doing to better engage and talk about this, to be better sensors amongst our own force, within our own fairs uh, friends, groups, to have that dialogue. I mean, we don't know what our guys are dealing with because we don't talk about it, but if we don't talk about it, we're going to lose more people. So how can we open up that discussion and be better discussing, at you know, the emotional issues, the things that will get us deeper down that road, to where that becomes the ultimate, only thing we're willing to do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. I mean that is it's such a challenging question to answer because you know it. Really it asks a lot of people and in that you know from my experience, if everybody's walking around hiding the real struggles that they have, people don't feel comfortable asking for help because they do feel like the only one. Especially in the community where everybody's been selected and there's this elite status and you're expected to be, you know, this upper echelon of human being, those cracks almost feel like am I a fraud? You know, like what is going on, and so people are really hesitant. But then when they do feel like they're the only one and that they are broken and flawed and that there's something uniquely wrong with them, that is absolutely a huge risk factor for somebody who you know is struggling greatly and deciding whether they want to stay and be here anymore.
Speaker 2:And so the best thing that people can do you know I always try to recommend that if you have those close buddies, you know the people that you trust, where, if you open up, you know that that vulnerability that you're willing to embrace isn't going to be weaponized against you Like this is key, right. You don't want to just go spill your guts to anybody who's willing to listen. You really want to make sure that you're sharing with people who you're concerned about or that you really confide in, and that vulnerable space is an invitation. It's being real with these people and I can't tell you how many times in my own life where I've shared my struggles, I've dealt with a lot and gone through a lot and lots of dark periods, and the more people that I've shared that with it was like, oh, thank God. Okay, so I got to tell you about my story now.
Speaker 2:And it's just like there's this bonding and this connection and, no, it doesn't solve your problems, doesn't make it all go away. But you realize, oh shit, okay, this isn't something that is uniquely wrong with me I'm not the flawed one here something that is uniquely wrong with me, I'm not the flawed one here. This is just something that is a sort of a well of course, given what you've been through. Right, so I would say that one of the protective things that people can do is being honest about their own story with people in the community that they trust, because it starts to break down this false narrative that everybody else has their shit together but me. And if everybody starts sharing and people realize, oh, we're all struggling. You know, my marriage is on the rocks and this is going on, or I did this thing that I'm really ashamed of, but I, you know, in the time I was just trying not to feel any pain and you know, if you start going through those types of discussions, it just allows, like the just like breathing room for everybody. And so when people ask if you know they want to help, I often say start with yourself and start getting real with yourself and honest with yourself, because that's the best place to start.
Speaker 2:I know so many people who and I've been this person, so I have great compassion for how we are as humans. It's like I don't want to deal with my shit. I have a lot of shit, but what I'm going to do is go help others, you know, and that's what's going to fix everything, and meanwhile the people you're helping think you've got your shit together and you don't. You know, and you're just like, if you just focus on being real with yourself and then opening that up and letting other people in to see that I think that there can be a lot that is beneficial. Does that solve the suicide epidemic? No, but does it? Is it going to help people? I would absolutely say yes, that that's going to help people, and maybe there will be some who choose not to go that route because they're starting to see oh wait, a minute. Like you know, what I'm dealing with is real.
Speaker 2:I have so many friends who confide in me because, again, I'm not part of any unit, I'm not part of an official, you know, anything like I, nothing's going to get back to anybody that they work with and so they can confide in me and they're telling me things that they're going through. And I'm asking do your buddies know? Does your psych know? Do you know? Who have you told in your world about these things? Nobody, and I'm like this is not like this. This is not OK, because the people in your life think that you are absolutely fine.
Speaker 2:And I see underneath that and I know the exact opposite is true. So you need to start talking to your buddies. Whether you know, maybe team medic you know, go talk to your, whoever it might be. There needs to be some sort of connection there. Maybe it's somebody off the team, right Like you don't necessarily want to burden the team with that, and so you talk to somebody else, but there is, there is a personal responsibility there. And at the same time, I get that it's tricky because I do have friends who've been burned by this too. You know and and the you know they've off, they've opened up to the wrong person and didn't know, and and unfortunately, that was used against them in some way. And so I'm not trying to say that this like knowing how to navigate, that's easy, um, but it is something that I would encourage people to try to do with people they trust.
Speaker 1:Yeah, vulnerability is a strength and he said it helps other people feel like they're seen and they can actually share, and it works in every demographic. It just takes a lot of courage, it takes a lot of guts to sit down and be the first one to say something, but that opens up the discussion, it opens up the other individual to say hey, man, yeah, me too, and that's something that and we see it in the advocacy space a lot Um, you're dealing with something, you're hurt, you're struggling, you're in a lot of pain, and then immediately you think, well, I'll just help, I'll just pour myself into this great cause and be a helper. That's awesome. But when are you going to take care of yourself? When are you going to get better? When are you going to go to the treatment center? And it becomes almost like a distraction. I see it all the time.
Speaker 1:People get burnt out and then it gets worse and worse and worse and it's like, hey, if you can just pour into yourself for a little bit, pour into your own cup, go that treatment center, go get checked out, get on the other side of healing, get on your your journey to getting back to a hundred percent, you'll be a much better advocate. You'll be a greater force for good Cause. Now you understand and you see the entire problem, um, so if you're out there and you see yourself doing that, you're being everybody else's caretaker take a knee. You deserve to get better too. It's not just about helping everybody else. You got to help yourself, and I think that's a powerful thing that we can all do Absolutely, because it makes you a better sensor. You're more aware. You can finally be attuned to like oh shit, that guy, I can go talk to him, share my journey, just share what you. What's helped you. Um, it helps so many people in your space right now. What are you working on? That, uh, is exciting and new man.
Speaker 2:You know, I work with a lot of different nonprofits and it's my favorite thing to be able to go out on retreats with folks and educate. I absolutely love that aspect of what I do. So I basically show up and I get to participate in these really cool week-long retreats with wonderful humans who are all there to try to help each other and to grow and you know, and I just get to educate on all the things that we're talking about. I dive into neuroscience and physiology and trauma and what does that mean and how do we make sense of this. So I'm extremely passionate about that and I'm doing. I'm actually still leaving my military medical company at the end of the year so I can focus more on the community directly. So I can do more of that. But one thing I'm going to be working on is that I'm really excited about is trying to put out more content in the form of like courses, essentially like educational courses. Like for the individual operator, their families, or for those who want to work in the space and help and be individual operator, their families, or for those who want to work in the space and help and be, you know, a healthcare provider, practitioner, healer, and so there will be different options to try to basically like how do we scale, how do we force, multiply this information? Because there are still people who don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean, I work a lot in the first responder community and firefighters and law enforcement are, like, I feel, like in the dark ages with this stuff. Nobody in their communities, they're not talking about it, and so the veteran community is still suffering greatly, but the first responder community is suffering even more and there's just no support for them and no education. Take this knowledge that so many incredible researchers and clinicians and service members and all of the people who have been trying to look at this from different angles how do we take all of that and just put it out there for people to easily access and then go on and help others? You know, it's just this domino effect. So I'm trying to solve that problem in the way that I know how, and some people write books, some people start podcasts, some people are prolific in other types of creative endeavors and I'm an educator at heart. So for me, that's like where I feel like I'm supposed to go and take my gifts, and so I'm going to put together some courses that hopefully will help people.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, heck, yeah, I cannot wait for that to come out. Have you done work with the Best Defense Foundation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love those guys. They're awesome. I actually am heading out on there's two upcoming programs this summer that I'll be working.
Speaker 1:Oh, heck yeah. And of course you've worked with Nick Jones over at Talents Reach Foundation.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, I love that organization so much it's incredible and I used to live in Montana, so that's where we connected two QR codes.
Speaker 1:Head on over to those websites. Leave us a donation or two. Help them out, because they're doing great things for our soft veterans. Very partial to both of those as individuals that run those organizations are incredible human beings. And shout out to you Flo, doing great work. Man, so proud of you, I cannot thank you enough for being here today. It is remarkable what you're doing for the community. Shameless plug. Where can people go to find your work?
Speaker 2:Good question. Right now I don't have much of a social presence. I'm on Instagram, that's about it. I have LinkedIn for those who want to connect in a professional way, and then I will have a website up soon. It'll just be docpatecom. That'll be up soon and there will be docpatecom. That'll be up soon and there will be more information and eventually the courses will live on that site and then a lot of the writing and other informational stuff that I find I'll push out through there too Awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, I cannot wait to have you back. And we barely touched on everything. Moral injury we got to dive into that one because that's one that people go back and forth. I love talking about that because, let me tell you, a lot of GWAT veterans are dealing with moral injury and it's not talked about enough. I'm open to hearing both sides. I've had individuals that say it's absolutely fucking stupid, it doesn't belong. But when you meet individuals and they divulge their stories of what they're going through, I'm like it has a leg to stand on. I believe it, I see it. I talked to individuals that are struggling with it and I'd love to get your take on it on a future episode.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:We're wrapping up. Yeah, yeah, if you would pause right now, go to the episode description. All the links are there for LinkedIn, instagram, where you can get Dr Pay and send her a friend request, follow her and, you know, connect with her professionally on LinkedIn, because that's where you know business gets done. That's certainly where I find a lot of individuals. Again, thank you so much for being here and to everybody tuning in, thank you so much. We'll see you all next time. Until then, take care.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
