Security Halt!
Welcome to Security Halt! Podcast, the show dedicated to Veterans, Active Duty Service Members, and First Responders. Hosted by retired Green Beret Deny Caballero, this podcast dives deep into the stories of resilience, triumph, and the unique challenges faced by those who serve.
Through powerful interviews and candid discussions, Security Halt! Podcast highlights vital resources, celebrates success stories, and offers actionable tools to navigate mental health, career transitions, and personal growth.
Join us as we stand shoulder-to-shoulder, proving that even after the mission changes, the call to serve and thrive never ends.
Security Halt!
Green Beret Chris Cathers on Healing, Cancer & Veteran Mental Health
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In this powerful episode of Security Halt!, Green Beret veteran Chris Cathers shares his inspiring journey from a troubled childhood to serving at the highest levels of Special Forces. Chris opens up about the emotional toll of combat, the deep scars left by moral injury, and his personal battle with cancer—all while navigating the often-overlooked struggles of transitioning to civilian life.
He dives into the mental health challenges faced by many veterans, the silent burden of grief and survivor's guilt, and how advocacy and community support helped him find hope. Chris also discusses the mission behind his nonprofit work, focusing on empowering veterans to reclaim their purpose and heal from invisible wounds.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in veteran resilience, mental health awareness, and the fight to support those who served.
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Chapters
00:00 From Darkness to Hope: Chris's Journey
06:38 Military Beginnings: The Path to Becoming a Green Beret
13:14 The Wild West: Early Experiences in Iraq
21:48 The Struggles of Transition: Life After Service
34:05 Facing Mortality: The Battle with Cancer
46:46 Advocacy and Healing: Supporting Fellow Veterans
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Website: https://bkvf.org/
Produced by Security Halt Media
Security Odd Podcast. Let's go. The only podcast that's purpose-built from the ground up to support you Not just you, but the wider audience, everybody. Authentic, impactful and insightful conversations that serve a purpose to help you. And the quality has gone up. It's decent, it's hosted by me, Danny Caballero, Chris Gathers how's it going, brother?
Speaker 2:Good man, humble and honored to do the show with you today.
Speaker 1:Man Appreciate it Incredibly honored to have you here, man. I always tell guys I was in the same mindset at one point. Everything, all hope was lost. I was in a bad place. Shout out to Laurel Ridge Again. When you're in those places where they take your shoelaces and you have to start from fucking the very bottom, you don't see a lot of hope for where you're going to get you know next few years in your life. You think like, oh fuck, like how am I going to recover from this? But when we see other individuals just like us, with that same lived experience that been through arduous things and they're on the backs of the, on that next part of their journey, they're running, they're doing better and you see them leading nonprofit organizations and bringing others back from the void, that gives us hope that we can someday turn everything that we've gone through into a positive. So today, my man, I want to dive into your life, your journey, your nonprofit and how you continue to give back on a day-to-day basis while you're still going through some difficult challenges.
Speaker 2:Yeah, happy to talk about it, man. You lead the dance and I'll follow your lead.
Speaker 1:Absolutely man. So let's take it back to the very beginning of this journey. A young Chris decides that he's going to enlist. And how did you become a Green Beret man?
Speaker 2:It's a great question. You know that was one of the I you know I often talk about my background grew up near, uh, philadelphia uh, I say philly, but I was really in the, the suburbs, you know, and while I I my, I got, I was, grew up and was raised by my father who was in the military in the early 60s. He volunteered, like during the Vietnam era, was didn't go to Vietnam, thankfully, cause I probably wouldn't have been born, but he always talked about his military service and he went to Germany, thankfully, instead of Vietnam, in 60 to 64. And he just had an amazing time, man. Then he went into law enforcement, first canine in our in the borough where I grew up, and then was a sheriff for over 20 years, so like 40 years of just, you know, from a military police officer. So my parents split up and I grew up with him grading athletics, but I was always in a bit of trouble getting arrested. I was a good kid, good heart, but uh, I I think the divorce at six. You know I never grew up with my siblings and it, just, it just had this profound impact. I had this chip on my shoulder man and really loves athletics. That's what kept me grounded, just getting my energy, my negative energy out. So from like seven years old all the way through, even now I still I try to train, you know, as best I can. So sports was like huge for me growing up. It kept me in school to be eligible and, uh, academically didn't perform, had scholarship opportunities for running. I was a really uh kind of a, not a natural runner, but it was kind of like pre Fontaine who, uh, you know an early or early distance runner in the mile. It was like a head game that you had to play, not quitting, and I think that kind of helped set me up a little bit.
Speaker 2:You know, I joined the military right out of high school because I didn't see a good future for myself in college or work. So my dad gave me that option and I went and signed up for six years right off the bat. So my dad gave me that option and I went and signed up for six years right off the bat. And then you know, when I went in I wasn't a combat MOS, which I, you know I love to say it's my I got screwed by a recruiter story because I did. You know, I was like troubled youth going down to MEPS and I'm like I want to be airborne rangers, absolutely Sign this. So I didn't even know what MOS really like, cause I was like 68 x-ray, what the hell is that? I didn't know.
Speaker 2:So I got, I got through bootcamp, you know, through basic, and that's when I kind of really figured out like my dumb ass figured out that I wasn't going to be an airborne ranger. I was going into work on Apache aircraft and I was like that's, that's pretty far away from what I wanted to do, wait a second. So anyway, I tried out, you know, and I was in Germany at the time. You know I did a year in Korea, went to Germany and a unit deployed and you know, I wanted to go to ranger school. Couldn't go to ranger school, wasn't combat MLS. So I ended up going the.
Speaker 2:You know, they said you can go to selection and I was like, of course nobody in my unit gave me any heads up because nobody was SF and I said man, that's really cool, man, like I really want to see if I can make it and I wanted to serve at a higher capacity and do the most challenging things. I don't know why, what drove me to that? It was just I wanted to check to see what I was made of, you know, because I thought I was a tough kid and physically I had some you know good gifts, but mentally I was just headstrong. I knew I'd never quit, you know, that's all they told me. If you don't quit, you got a really high success rate, you know. But I was like I'm dumb as a box of rocks and I was not adequately prepared. I didn't have an infantry background. I always talk about that because I noticed all these guys that were Ranger qualified or from Battalion or Levin Bravo, and here I show up with like aviation wings on my uniform and I was real young man.
Speaker 2:I was like I went to selection 95 back in the Stone Age and you know I made it through my first go and you know I lost about 25 pounds that I didn't have to give and then that kind of set me off, you know, like um. Then I had to go to the next evolution, as you know, going through the special forces Q course, which was challenging for me. Land navigation really kicked my butt because I didn't have any background, never did it before, you know. So, uh, you know I had some challenges there and uh, I was an 18 Bravo, a special force and weapon sergeant, hell yeah, and I wanted to be a medic. They said I was too dumb and uh, same, fair enough, same. And then I started seeing what these guys went through and how much longer the training was. And, you know, you actually had to like, really think, and I was like I'm a nug 18 Bravo, brother, let's go. So that's how I got in, man, I just uh, really enjoyed it, man.
Speaker 2:I went the third group and I was the fucking new guy, super young, unexperienced. I went through selection as a corporal and I showed up. I just got my E five. So I'd never seen it. There's a looking around, there's like. You know, I got my E6 pretty quick, you know, but I was like I'm the only E5 in group, like what the hell. It seemed like it, you know. So it was challenging because we had all these experienced guys, man, and you know I was trying to latch on to mentors, you know, and my team sergeant was really good and he was old school and did a couple deployments and you know, I was up for my third re-enlistment and then I transitioned out, which I later regretted because the timing couldn't have been worse.
Speaker 2:You know, 9-11 occurred when I was in college and that's when I, yeah, I called my team, starting up straight away. Man, it was like probably the end of that first day on 9-11. And he's like, man, it's probably going to be over before you get back in, bro, like Grenada, the first Panama, the first Gulf war. And no, it wasn't. And so I went the agency route. You know, I got recruited um to do GRS. A buddy of mine gave me an opportunity, said hey, they're looking to recruit some dudes. Are you willing to go to Iraq? I said hell, yeah, bro. And uh, I did that as a contractor for several years. Um did about 10 deployments with those guys, which was I worked with some awesome dudes, man, I really enjoyed the time. It was like the wild West man and, uh, some of the most best memories that I've got, you know, um it's funny.
Speaker 1:I was just talking to my, my buddy shout out to you uh, gaither. Uh, we remember those guys. Uh, I was a young paratrooper in the second of the five, oh fourth, in uh 2007, 2008. And seeing your guys, uh, you just just like green berets man, you, you guys just always look like you were just the top of the top, the coolest dudes going through and I was just like that that you didn't know who they were, you didn't know what they were doing. But I'm like they're, they're badasses completely. Whatever, whatever it is that they're doing, they're fucking crushing it out there, just like on the same level as being in an ODA.
Speaker 1:And I think many of us had those like moments in Iraq where you saw those those GRS guys and you're just like, oh shit, man, like what does it take to be one of those guys? Like, cause, I mean, I had, I had no idea about that world and everybody just looks so mysterious and we would always just assume and make up the wildest stories about what it took to be one of those operators. And the guys just like the most outlandish stories that here they only get the finest green berets. You have to get by name, recruited to do that job. What was that mission like in those early years of GWAT man?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was really interesting because, as I reflect back now, I look at guys that most of my friends are like. A lot of them are retired group guys, right, and I'm hanging out with through the nonprofit, with all these legends. You know, at least from my perspective, I look up to these guys because they had storied careers and they stuck with one element right when I transitioned, and I don't regret it. But at the same time I'm like I wonder. I always think like what would that have looked like for me, like what I've been able cause when I really matured more in my thirties, when I was with GRS, and so I knew nothing about it. Man, same thing. I had all this. I'm like, ooh, working for a different, you know area code, yeah, and you know it was kind of like you just showed up and you had to go through all the vetting like shooting, driving, physical fitness and you know, to kind of get through. They were trying to get most guys were coming from the SEAL teams or had military backgrounds like SF, and so that was cool, but we all had different backgrounds. So you know, our backgrounds, with room clearing and things like that, were just different, but we didn't know that until we got thrown into the, into the fray. So I went through all that. You know it took. It took took some time and it worked out.
Speaker 2:Where I went into Iraq in 03, just at the trail end of the invasion, it was just like winding down and we were the. I was part of the first 10 guys that stood the program up as a you know uh contractor. So we nobody knew what was going to go on. You know, like there were some old school guys but they never went into combat. They were working in different you know environments. So everybody, when we flew in, what was wild is we flew over with armored vehicles. We were driving soft-skinned vehicles with no maps, which was wild because there was no data. We had garments and shit like old school GPSs and Falcon View and all this stuff, but they were. You know, post-war everything changed. You're driving down the road one day it's free and clear, the next day there's a wall in the middle of the road and you're like what? So it was really treacherous, you know.
Speaker 2:So the first year wasn't bad. But I just remember the tailgate coming down on the aircraft and I'm driving the armored vehicle out and you just get blasted with the heat and you look and everything looks foreign. Right, and I, you know, I was in Africa. I was in North Africa, which was wild in group, but it was so different and we had no AC, so I was driving with no weapons, no body armor, didn't know where we were going to our new headquarters at Biop, which was Baghdad International Airport. We had positioned ourself in this like fishbowl thing and you know, it was kind of like archaic and I loved it because I see, I assume the worst, like we're sleeping on the floor, no AC, bottled water. You know the deal, yeah, and it was kind of like that. But eventually we got trailers, which was nice Cause we had AC, and I was like, thank God, dude, cause it was like 130 degrees. When I got the like at least 120, not including the heat index, it was the hottest place I've ever been. I worked in the Sahara.
Speaker 2:So anyway, like when we got there the first year in 03 was, you know, we're on the road every day doing one or two ops familiarization, like fams were out, doing like road reconnaissance for ops, protecting, uh, the U? S assets, you know. You know I like to say I was like, yeah, you guys protected. Jason Bourne, you know those that first year I mean we were, we sometimes we were going to go from one part to get out of where we lived. We had to drive down Route Irish, which was the most dangerous road in the world at the time. A lot of IEDs just going to work, just going to go do an op. You're driving down, like you know, they called it ambush alley for a reason and not much really happened. You know we were conducting operations and we were doing things. Sometimes that we were it wasn't. Our job was to protect our principal and keep them alive and not really engage. You know, unless really necessary, if you get hit up and you lose a vehicle, you got to fight your way out.
Speaker 2:But and that's happened a few times, uh with us and, but in 04, like right in the fall of 03, going into 04, prior to Fallujah, I was there during that time too. I came back, just really from the summer of 03 through the winter to December, went home for Christmas, came back and it was like a whole nother fucking dynamic. We started getting armor, which saved my life several freaking times, because these were commercial armored vehicles and they were just procuring whatever was available to keep us safe, right and our principles and we a lot of my teammates, including myself, you know we got shot up several times. One of one of the guys got shot. I think they put like 250 rounds on the vehicle, jeez, and I'm just like thank God for armor, bro, cause you guys would all been dead. You know dudes are on the roof shooting through, trying to shoot through, and they did. You know it's like you got to get out and fight, but it was like the wild west, oh three and oh four.
Speaker 2:And uh, you know, I had, I had beers with the Blackwater guys that got killed in Fallujah, right before Fallujah kicked off, and I didn't know the guys personally. Um, and we're like, you guys are driving a semi down there by doing what? Now I was like bro, it's really fucking dangerous man, we've been here for, like you know, eight, nine months and just getting there is going to be fucking crazy. And they got shrunk up, ripped out of their vehicles, killed, stripped naked, hung up on the bridge. I watched this unfold on CNN at the time and I got so pissed off, dude, that's when it really hit me that, like you know, this shit's for real. And but you know, from there I, it was kind of like McHale's Navy man.
Speaker 2:We were getting out gun carrying like, uh, our m4s. You know we had sometimes we go a little viz. We called it this is not pc but hajit up. You know makeup, you know the whole nine and you know velcro so you could get to your kit quick just to keep a low profile, you know. But the vehicle platforms we were driving were sticking out like a turd in a punch bowl, you know. So, bourbons, yes, let's take these. I was in.
Speaker 2:I got blown up in a g wagon, um, on cadizia. Uh, because it was a 450 thousand dollar armored vehicle, that this, there wasn't any other d5s or we even had an h2 hummer that was silver, and driving down cadizia in a freaking humvee, like I'm like, come on, like these things are. That's why we're getting blown up. We. We're like these are Americans and they're important. They got a freaking BMW 7 Series or whatever, and so I would have rather have driven in unarmored vehicles at the time.
Speaker 2:To be honest with you, because you're less likely to get engaged if you blend and you're driving slow with traffic and you know you're a trade craft, you have low visibility. That's the smart play back then, but we didn't always have that ability and um, so it was the wild West man and, uh, you know, when it started like the big army came in and they wouldn't leave their bases. You know and no disrespect to all the service members, I have no disrespect, you know but we were on the road every day and a sergeant major I was coming back from an op it was like my third op in the day and he was like, slow down, he's wearing a road guard vest and they put speed bumps up by our compound. So we were at Camp Slayer, there was a compound within a compound. So we were at camp slayer, there was a compound within a compound where we were headquartered, and I might have given him the finger and told him to fuck off, which it got back to the highest level and they came back.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know if it was like general level, but they were like, hey, some of your wild guys, some dude with the fucking crazy beard, just flipped off a sergeant major of the fucking you know the base and I was like, yeah, it was me, my bad. Uh, I was like there's no speed limits in iraq, man, yeah, but from there I went to afghanistan because I, you know, when the speed bumps came up I was like, hey, man, I'm used to the wild west where we can just be, let's just accomplish the mission, whatever it takes, kind of like that SF mindset, and you know, I want to be safe and, you know, respectful, except for that one time. And uh, I was like man, I want to try out Afghanistan because I want to know, I want to experience like the differences in both sides. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that was, you know, both sides, yeah, yeah, and that was, you know, less dangerous for me personally. I know a lot of dudes would probably argue the point, but, um, I didn't get blown up and shot up a lot over in afghanistan I did a couple deployments and out of kabul and um, it was just, it was different, you know, because it was like mountainous cold. I, I like that. I prefer the cold over the heat, man. And then I went to Israel, you know, spent a lot of time in Palestine. I spent about a year there. You know, 90 day trips back to back and I'd go home for two weeks and punch back out and, uh, I just enjoyed it, man, because the guys I work with we actually have a reunion coming up, uh, in a month and I still keep it, keep tabs with these guys, you know, and they're all just amazing people. You know different backgrounds and some of these guys went on like the Benghazi. You know they were some of my coworkers. I wasn't friends with those dudes, but I was really good friends with one guy that, uh, that was there and he performed, just, you know, it was out of out of the world his experience, fighting back in and fighting back out and staying there for a very long time, which isn't in the movie. And I just respect the fuck out of these guys, man, because you know, the know, the real human spirit was what I'm about. You know, in combat you really bond with these, as you know. Because the real you can talk all the mad shit in the world. And the real you comes out when you're under constant stress and pressure and whether you're a fighter or a flighter and whether you're a fighter or a flighter and even with my experience now with you know, dealing with a terminal illness, I can't fight anymore like I used to. Like I had to give up jujitsu and MMA for training. I just loved the camaraderie of that and rolling with 25 year old studs when I'm in my mid forties. You know, I just loved it, dude, and it was kind of similar to the teams. The real you comes out when you're getting suffocated and strangled by 150 pound guy, when I'm 215 or 220 and you know, way stronger and athletic. It's humbling. That's what I'm about, like.
Speaker 2:I want to show, demonstrate my human spirit now being terminally ill, through my actions, right, not just my words. I want to demonstrate and demonstrate my human spirit now being terminally ill. Through my actions right, not just my words. I want to demonstrate that till I can no longer do it and be a good example of the human condition and spirit. And it's tough at times, you know, but I just love that warrior mindset man, it's part of my DNA.
Speaker 2:I'd like to think, you know, and I often say, most of my friends have done way cooler shit than I ever did and I don't like to compare myself to them. You know they had different paths in lives. You know some of them come out unscathed mentally. My combat stuff didn't bother me, but I had some other, you know, issues and so now I just advocate for veterans that are suffering with mental health issues TBIs, because I've had multiple TBIs which impacts you, just like PTS or physical limitations, and I just want to get the word out there, raise awareness and destigmatize veterans' mental health and actually do something about it and save lives. And it's given me profound purpose in life to be able to do this and I'm just honored to be able to do that for the community that I came from. And you know it's hard work. I don't get paid from our foundation. I chose to do that because I didn't. I never trusted nonprofits when I was suffering because of some missteps by one or two people and I really want the community to know nonprofits.
Speaker 2:There are really good nonprofits out there that you can turn to when the when the VA isn't working for them you know, yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I think you know. Something that I want to dive into now is a lot of times when um I compare it to a NASCAR or an F1 car that's doing laps, when you're still in the team room, when you's doing laps when you're still in the team room, when you're still operating, when you're still doing the job, it's easy to not pay attention to your body or any issues. And then, for a lot of guys, when they transition, when that definitive end to that career comes, that's when a lot of crisis and a lot of issues come up. When you were going through your journey your, you know, your, your journey when did things start falling apart for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was really around. I had this. Really. I got hit with a lot of factors in life at one time and you know I just transitioned out, which is super hard for a lot of us, right? My, when I, when I left group, I went, my team started and sent me to the recruiter. I was up for my third reenlistment. They're like you sure you don't want to reenlist? I'm like, yeah, I'm sure. Kinda, you were like all right, brother, have a good day. Literally, that was what my experience was, and I know they do things better now. Right, Of course.
Speaker 2:But because so many guys suffer trying to, you know you go from that environment everything's life or death situations and then you go work at home Depot for 18 bucks an hour, working for a 20 year old, and it's a. It's a. It's just weird. Man Like you, don't? You think you have nothing and at least from my experiences, I was like man, I don't have anything in common with anybody, Like my background is this weird? And you know, went to college, went to pa school because I was too stupid to be a medic, I was going to prove him wrong.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, when I transitioned out, I went into the fence, worked for an armored vehicle company which gave me a little bit good purpose. But my buddy was in seal team three who was my partner. We worked so man trying as Neanderthals, trying to build an armored vehicle business with just a handful of Neanderthals and provide life-saving equipment. It was so challenging and a lot of pressure because I knew these products had to be good because if not these guys will die, you know, and I don't want that on my conscience. So that was a lot of pressure. And then I had to get my business degree while working 16 hour days and we sold the company in about four years to a private equity firm.
Speaker 2:And about a week later my buddy, John, passed away in Jordan. He was at SOFETS, which is like a special forces exhibition, really big defense show and he was surrounded by guys. Like we had our business development guy, we had a commander for SEAL Team 6. We had another guy for the agency. So my transition was easier because I was working with like-minded people. So it wasn't as difficult as what most veterans go through. But I started getting anxiety a little bit being around people and I can't really explain it, but I didn't want to be around Like when we were selling the company.
Speaker 2:I was nervous all the time, Like I felt like an imposter you know like now I'm a business guy and I look like a criminal. We had $3 million life insurance policies and we had to pick his body up in a suburban with his father my best friend, ron, who was a Green Beret and worked for the same group. I did OGA. We picked his body up. His dad wanted to open the casket. He fell 40 feet and then he was my next door neighbor as well.
Speaker 2:I had a 6,500 square foot house on a lake, doing great financially, invested all my money from contracting into property and real estate, had 12 properties. Everyone looked at me like your life is so great, you know, you got all this, all these things, and when he died, it's just none of that mattered because he was getting ready to retire. He had two daughters and his wife was nine months pregnant and I had. When I got the call at three in the morning because of the time change, I called my buddy Ron. He came over to my house. We had the plan how are we going to drop the news to his widow now? And she was nine months freaking pregnant dude. And it was the hardest. One of the hardest things in my life that I've ever done was knocking, making that knock and as soon as she made eye contact, at 6 am, coming out of the shower in a robe with a towel on her head or whatever, she made this whale. You know. His daughters answered the door. Who? There were seven and five, and I spent a lot of time with him just through work, being in iraq together. He always had my back. We're driving in sadar city 10 000 strong and it's just him and I. You and I hit somebody with a car at a checkpoint. I'm like oh shit and uh. They ended up keeping his life insurance policy.
Speaker 2:Eight months later. I had enough. I said what are you guys going to do? You said you're going to take care of this and they said tell, tell his widow to sue us. So I resigned on the spot. I had no job. I went through, you know, the funeral. I had his urn by my bed and his pictures because his wife struggled with it, understandably, and I was dealing with the family trying to support them. I was a little absent with my ex-wife. She filed for divorce literally on the one year anniversary. So the story is yes. What happened? It was like a series of freaking, insane things, like knocking on the door, my buddy's dead, you know, at 32 years old. We just sold a company, never got to celebrate. The private equity group said tell, tell his wife to sue us. I resigned, had no job, no wife, no friend in this big house, and then I started drinking.
Speaker 2:I really started getting withdrawing from society. You know, I just work out. I got down to like 170 pounds working with, like doing MMA workouts, like two, three a days, trying to combat my anxiety. I was sweating all the time. I never slept for two years. I was on Ambien, doing weird things and I couldn't go.
Speaker 2:I went to my primary care doctor because I was getting I was suicidal then and the you know when anxiety, depression, ideation, I go to him, I'm emotional. I didn't want to tell him I was suicidal because I was worried they're going to Baker, act me and take my clearance. I had a TS, sci and I use that for work to go. I had to go get another job. I had all this financial pressure, all these things. My wife left me, um, without any heads up and went back to DC. So I was like Holy, holy crap man. So I just started drinking, I started doing pills, doing Ambien was on, all the things I wanted to numb. The static was 24, seven and I just was trying not to kill myself. That's all I thought about was this, you know. So I finally, um decided to commit suicide in 2011. And I don't know what month it was, cause I was so on so many substances. And, um, I put plastic up in my bathroom, tacked it up. I was gonna. I was a suicidal, a conscientious suicidal guy and I didn't even go. I was on my couch and I had my pistols. Like 10 AM, had my Glock out, I was already hammered and my I literally had a gun in my hand getting ready to fucking shoot myself. Hope you don't get flagged for this and demonetized.
Speaker 2:You know I get a knock on my door as my buddy Ron. He flew all the way from Tulsa, oklahoma I live in South Carolina. He happened. Someone told him hey, your boy's in a bad state. And he just had this feeling and we didn't talk about this till two, two years ago. Why'd you show up? You know, my CFO, who lived in my neighborhood, called him and said hey, man, he's shrinking his face off. It's not good. So if it wasn't for my buddy Ron, I wouldn't be here today.
Speaker 2:He knocked on my door and I was like, should I shoot? I didn't want to shoot myself because I was worried it was my buddy's widow and I didn't want to put more stress on her. I was like, even though I just wanted an out, so bad dude. And so when he knocked on the door I went to get it and he goes. I said what are you? I was like in a haze. You know what are you doing here. You live in Tulsa, you got four kids. You got a job, like you know, running a nonprofit for a Christian day camp man Like you got all these obligations and he's like you look like shit. And I go, I feel like shit. He goes, get dressed. I said where are we going? He's like the bar. I'm like where are we going?
Speaker 1:Like where the heart is but, he wasted dude.
Speaker 2:He's like he didn't know what to do. Man, that's what we did. We used to drink a lot, remember it was a blur, and until he was confident, for now I was good. But I struggled with that. I went on to run US armored vehicle business for a company in South Carolina for five years, got reloaded to where I live in Georgia and through all those experiences having panic attacks I didn't want to go to work. I'd just go to work, go to the gym. That was my outlet. Still to this day. It keeps me. You know, I tell people my vanity keeps my sanity, because if I never worked out and I got fat, oh I would be the biggest drug addict on the planet. Man, I just didn't want to be that guy, you know. I wanted to be fit, so nobody. I masked all my symptoms really well. I hid it from everybody as best I could and I was drinking every night like half a fifth, sometimes to a fifth, and um, as a serious habit it was.
Speaker 2:It was. It was bad man and, like I met my wife, my wife, uh Jen is amazing man. I met her in uh 10 years ago. I rented her wife. My wife Jen is amazing man. I met her 10 years ago. I rented her house. I sold my house after three years, just wanted to work, had a dog, Kept me plugged in. I didn't want him to eat me.
Speaker 2:If I shot myself Like it's weird, right, but all the little things make big differences. So, long story short, you know I got married to my wife Jen. She's just been in my corner. You know she knew I was drinking and stuff, but I didn't try not to make it impact our relationship, which it of course, did. You know I was really easily agitated. I'd get really hot, really fast, aggressive, and then I eventually got emotional, like I was like dude, what is going on with me? So when in 2019, I was diagnosed with uh, I was.
Speaker 2:I did five more years of private security for celebrities and I came back from Italy with a client and I had some pain in my hip. I thought I tore my hip in jujitsu like a labrum tear or something from all the you know abuse, blown, both knees out broken, dislocated my shoulder, and I just still kept rolling. I got an MRI because I'm like. I told my wife, I'm like, ah, I just want to, this is probably a sports injury. And they called me, probably in 30 minutes, and they said, hey, man, I've been doing this 28 years, you need to be in the ER. There's something I don't even know, man, like I've never seen this shit. And you know, I got misdiagnosed in the hospital. I was in for five days.
Speaker 2:I got a second opinion, largely due to my wife, because she's a RN, she's getting ready to finish her nurse practitioner in less than a couple of weeks and so she's really. She was in the ER for 10 years. She advocated for me and got a second opinion. They did a bone graft. A week later, results came back that I had advanced form of chondrosarcoma or bone cancer, and I called them and they're like I'm sure you have questions. I'm like, yeah, am I going to freaking die? That's literally what I said. You know I was like, yeah, I got, I got some questions. She's like, yeah, you're going to have to have a lot of brutal, called it a brutal and radical surgery.
Speaker 2:They removed my femur that they just repaired with the bone graft on my right leg. It took out three quarters of my femur, my hip, my glute, my quad and then in 22,. That's when I decided to get help, though you know I should say, uh, I wanted to be strong for my stepson. He's in the military, he's 11 brava right now on his first deployment. He's a great kid and I just didn't want to have this impact relationships and I wanted to own it. And it was weird because I was still suicidal and at the same time I was like cancer ain't gonna get me motherfucker, motherfucker.
Speaker 1:Now I if anybody's got to take me out, it's going to be me.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, it was like weird, I'm a control freak. So I started putting work in. I went to the VA. You know uh, did VA trauma recovery group drug and alcohol treatment. I was high or drunk almost every time, did nothing. Did that for a year or two and then I I reached out to nonprofits but I didn't know where to start. I was like I don't know what's wrong with me, man, and it's like I don't feel like it's. It's moral injuries working for a company when my buddy died. There's other ones, one.
Speaker 2:I just don't talk about I finally did to a therapist. I violated my moral code big time and it haunts me to this day and uh, but I worked through. I finally got to talk to two or three people about it ever and that that's what I I kind of determined.
Speaker 1:Moral injury is a huge fucking thing that people still get hung up on and I'm telling you from somebody that has helped and been a peer support resource for people like there's a lot to be said about having to do the job, but we don't. A lot of the shame that we pack on and take on has to do with moral injury. Man, people need to understand like we have to talk. We have to find that source of uh, of respite with somebody that we trust, whether it's a provider or somebody in your life, somebody that you can go to and talk. Man, the GWAT was not easy for a lot of us and it's okay to have these things that you want to unpack.
Speaker 1:Don't take it to the grave, don't continue to suffer. Get it out. Man, like that's one of the hardest things that I still like. People are always like God, I'm fine, I didn't do anything in combat, and then finally like talk for a few more hours and they're well actually. Here's something I dealt with. It's like fuck, dude, that's impactful. You know you don't need to be carrying that shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and for the audience of people that uh tune in is you know, a moral injury is when you have more shame and guilt. It's shame and guilt based. It's when you, if you have come from a, most people have a moral code. There there's a lot of degrees. I have a very strict one and when you violate that and you have that, you suffer with shame and guilt. It's different than a fear-based condition and it's pretty crazy. I didn't learn about that until years after I started putting work in. I was doing five nonprofits per day. Five hours of my day consisted of, like, different nonprofit work, different modalities Great book If you want to start your journey understanding, uh, moral injury.
Speaker 1:Uh, I'll put a link to it in the episode description Um, because we don't know what. We don't know that we, like you said, like we, we, a lot of us grow, and there's so many Americans out there that did grow up with good parents and good morals, good values, and then they enlist and they go somewhere, like Iraq during the early years, the 2003s, 2004s where a lot of shit was happening that we don't really talk about, that we don't really express. We touched a little bit on it with the Blackwater guys, but how many of our conventional Marines, infantry guys dealt with something and they brought back and it's just still locked in with them, deeply shameful, deeply troublesome, because they feel like they don't, they, they can't get it out, they can't talk to somebody. So if you're dealing with that, please.
Speaker 2:I think the I read an article once about the absurdity of war and it was super interesting. And when you, when you grow up with those social cues and norms, you know and value structure, and then you're thrust into an impossible situation, like you're fixed with decisions that you just can't really understand and you got to make a decision on the spot life or death and you know, sometimes those consequences get you later in life. You know cause they just uh, they kind of put a shadow on your soul. You know, like a imprint, and it gets a lot of people, you know, and it's not always right away, you know, because we're guarded. When you go into those positions people are like man, like you know, know, doing all those deployments and stuff, and, um, I know guys still operating today I don't even know they might be on deployment like 35, and I'm like, holy cow, you've been doing this for like almost 30 years of combat, like insane. Now you're in syria and all this stuff and i'm'm like, how are you good? Well, when they transition out, finally, it's going to be a scary situation because you got dealing with transition. Then you have all the stuff, all the static, you know you have moments of clarity, where you're by yourself. And that's where I struggled when I sought out the most chaotic jobs possible, like as a turnaround expert in defense or even starting a nonprofit. It was a ton of work, kept my brain engaged, like focused, and then at the end of the day you're just like you got time to yourself. It's terrifying, cause I'm like I don't want to think about all the damn shit I do. So it's just interesting, you know, and um, yeah, that's that's why we got to advocate so hard for folks, because I didn't know where to start.
Speaker 2:So when I started Brothers Keeper Veterans Foundation, I wanted an organization that fills in that gap. So we team up with hundreds of partners that do the best and brightest of care, different modalities for different people, and we take a whole whole body approach. So your background, your, you know, it could be religion, your ethnicity, your military experiences everybody's so different and there's a lot of variables. So I would like, I want to find treatment that resonates with the individual, not trying to put a round peg in a square hole. And that's what you know.
Speaker 2:There's all these different verticals. You got traditional cognitive behavioral therapy, emdr and all these different psychological techniques to have people you really just got to get to unpack what bothers you and that's the goal. But then there's psychedelics and untraditional medicine 5meo, dmt, Ibogaine therapy, ayahuasca, ketamine treatment, celaganglion, blah, blah. You go on and on. They're kind of in a different space. But when traditional medicine doesn't work, we offer those resources as well, because some people aren't willing. They're like I've done 10 years of therapy or 15 years of therapy it's done absolutely nothing for me. Maybe it's the practitioner, maybe it's the approach, but drug addicts love drugs. So some of them kind of swing that way and if it gives them a little bit of reprieve where then they can go do the traditional. You know, whatever it takes to get to the goal. But some people do one modality and they're good. And some people like myself I did five years and I'm still seeing people just to stay plugged in with the pressures of you know, business and life and just making sure I stay on the proper track and be a good steward for the community.
Speaker 2:And I don't, you know. You know you're probably familiar with Mike Day. You know I speak about him. Sometimes the Navy SEAL got shot. I don't remember I speak about him. Sometimes he was a Navy SEAL, got shot. I don't remember. I should know this number. It was like 20 something, 26 times 11. To the chest, what room clearing against a high value target walked out of the room and his teammates were like what? And you know I don't know the ins and outs with him as he wasn't a friend of mine I just read about him and you know he went on to support nonprofit work and took his life maybe about a year plus ago and I can't ever let that happen because it rocks so many people.
Speaker 2:And no disrespect to that guy, he's you know just the stories that I read. I'm like wow, and I use that as an extreme example of like things that you and I are doing. What a stud, what a. What a story. Unfortunate career but insane willpower and mindset and warrior. But for whatever reason, the demons got to him, you know, and that kept me plugged in because I, when I started the organization four years ago, I was still highly suicidal and I was like man, I can't do this to another veteran. You know, one suicide impacts 135 people on their social network and it really some other people that are hanging on by a thread might take their lives.
Speaker 1:Absolutely that is. That is a one, one metric that we need to be able to keep aware. If you, if you're in that space right now, I always tell people, I urge you to stay in the fight the impact that it has on your family, your kids, scientifically and it's been proven 50% or something of if you commit suicide, 50% of your children is likely to commit suicide, something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's, it's like man, like I, I, I know it, I bet there. I just tell you guys, if you're in this, if you're feeling it, if it's this is your chapter that we're talking about, I urge you to stay, stay in this fight, reach out to your friends, your family. You have that network. I know it's scary. I didn't want to reach out to my friends, but I found the two friends that I could reach out to, the two friends I could talk to. Even if I didn't divulge that I was suicidal, I still talked to Greg and Paul. I reached out to them on a daily basis, sharing memes and texting, because I needed to have that connection. I knew that I wasn't doing well enough, but if I could just laugh with two people that I trusted and had a common bond with, I knew that I could keep pushing forward. So, lgops, man, little groups of paratroopers, you can keep each other alive. You just have to keep treading water man. Whatever analogy you need to use, use it, but stay in this fight. Keep reaching out to each other and if you haven't talked to your friends in a few days or a few months, reach out today. In that text, in that simple text message hey, do you hear about the latest with Epstein? Whatever it is to break the ice, just reach out. There's plenty of those conversations to be had.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I've told people more often than not, our dark veteran humor has kept more people alive than anything and it's a connective tissue, it's a bridge to get you to have that uncomfortable talk of hey man, haven't heard from you in a while, are you okay? I'm worried. Yeah, man, I'm fine. No, no, no, don't just leave it at that. That's just the first little engagement. Keep digging.
Speaker 1:All right, man, let's meet up. Let's do something. Let's play a video game online. Let's watch a movie together. Let's jump on Discord and watch a movie together.
Speaker 1:Even more than ever, I know our friend groups get blown up and people move and travel around the world. Find a way to connect. I've been able to sit down and watch movies with friends on frigging on Riverside on Discord. You can do it. It's up to us. No one's coming to save the day. There's no QRF that's going to magically knock at the door and be like I'm here to save the day. It doesn't happen. What really happens is guys like me, guys like Chris, we get better. When it's not about being 100%. You just got to get to 70. Fight to that 70 fucking percent. Get to 70 and start helping everybody else out. You didn't quit on a team. You didn't quit on your platoon. I'm asking you not to quit today. Just keep moving forward. You don't have to build a nonprofit. I'd like for you to build a nonprofit. I'd like to get in the fight, because nothing's more trustworthy than seeing an honest broker, seeing a fellow brother starting a nonprofit or being a leader within a nonprofit, you know, just put some good in the world.
Speaker 2:What I'm trying to champion is like getting the fuck after it, no matter what's coming your way. Like you got to put the work in Right. And I like to say there's different verticals in life financial stability for you and your family, your relationships with your kids, your wife, your girlfriend, husband, whatever boyfriend and then you get to physical fitness. I love people. I'm like, hey, work out man to carry your body. Proper nutrition is really important. You know, let's go RFK. Like change, let's get poisons out of our food. That I mean. How can you argue against that? Like the government doesn't need to babysit us, you know. But you know you don't have a lot of selection on healthy food. But then the last, like there's many other verticals, but like spirituality is another one that anchors people. You know your religion, god, like tie into that. I've been getting better. I'm not the best, strongest Christian in the world. I try. I'm failed Christian but I work on it and the more work that I'm doing I'm finding my peace there.
Speaker 2:But also mental health, man, it gets overlooked in the community and I'm like I'm not trying to discourage anybody. Young warfighters, men, women that are going to join the military. First responders. You know people, you know that you have a higher frequency of trauma. Deal with it as it comes and just like you're working out, if you have a traumatic event, you know you lose your family in a car wreck and you're in the vehicle, you're the sole survivor, similar to the military. Well, you gotta, you gotta get through that properly. You can't just put walls up and think you're going to be good because they it's like micro-terrorists, man. They add up, it's a cumulative effect effect the death of a thousand paper cuts if you don't. So it's like deal with things as they come.
Speaker 2:A lot of people have childhood trauma that I've been working with could be physical or psychological or sexual abuse. As a kid I'd unpack that stuff, man, because then when you have more trauma as an adult, you know we're exposed with our careers in the past to exceptional amounts of like losing friends, being like survivor's guilt and this and that and traumatic brain injuries. It's the frequency that gets you, you know, for some people. And I just tell people, deal with things as they come, man, if you had that background growing up, just it's not dude, you're strong to deal with this stuff.
Speaker 2:You know, and like I told you before we started the podcast, do I want to be known as the freaking nut guy in the community? Not really, but if I have to champion this, you know my reputation means a lot to me. I don't have time to make up for it. Being terminally ill, I could be dead in a week. Maybe I get a couple of years, I get lucky. I just want to have a good reputation in the community. It means a lot.
Speaker 2:So to do this work it's exceptionally hard for me because I find myself to be a warrior. I don't want to be. I'm not crying about my past experiences or anything. I would do it all over again. I'd be a little smarter. But I just want people to you know, deal with these things as they come. If you're a young warfighter, you know, deal with these things as they come. If you're a young warfighter, use your mind as a weapon and hone those skills you know and deal. You know you can stay and get back in the fight. You know. But you got to take a minute to give yourself some grace once in a while and work, you know, on that, on that skillset and vertical.
Speaker 1:Absolutely man. And then the faith. The faith part is the what I always say's like. It's oftentimes the last one and I'm grateful that I found my way back to my faith. I think everything happens for a reason. But explore that, Be willing to explore that.
Speaker 1:And there's no such thing as a perfect Christian, perfect Catholic. We're all just trying to do our best each and every day, Like if you can get your rosary in, good, If you can get two in, even better. But if you forget, if you don't get a chance to do it, go to sleep. But before you do that, do at least one Hail Mary. Whatever you can do, Like there's nobody perfect in this world, the fact that you've come to it, the fact that you found it, that's a testament. That's what God ultimately wants from us to get better, one day at a time, best foot forward and man like.
Speaker 1:It's up to us to find that faith. Whatever it is for you, listening at home, whatever it is, explore it, be willing to do it. We're warriors for a reason. We're not just warriors while we're in it. It matters more now than ever on the outside, building that family, being a good steward and continuing to help others. That's the greatest thing we could ultimately do in this world being of service to others and helping somebody get better, and what you're doing with your foundation, Chris, is exactly that. There's no saints, it's just guys that are doing 70% better or 65% better and trying to get the other guys there, and that's something that we need more of as we begin to close it down, like how can we get in touch with you, how can we get involved with your foundation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, kind of the call for action is. You know there's a lot of different nonprofits out there and we're aligned with some of the best in my opinion, which is great, right. But the call for action for people that want to get involved. You can volunteer, you know, with our organization. You can donate, you can attend our events. You can simply spread the word on social media so you can find us at bkvforg it's Brothers Keeper Veterans Foundation, not my Brothers Keeper Some people have been saying that but yeah, bkvforg, if you need help, you can go to get help. There's a dropdown, a social work. Reach out with you in just a few hours and they'll put an action plan together for care. And you know we have two events coming up right now. We just finished, we closed about five events in the last 30 days, which is a grind. We have over a hundred veterans in our care, which I'm proud to say right now in this month. So those things, everything's predicated by resource. We need people to kind of. Financial support is number one. And we have a gala coming up in Nashville, tennessee, at the City Winery from 6 to 10 pm on Saturday 13th of September. We also are looking for runners, anybody who likes to suffer and do dumb things and run marathons. All you marathon runners, we're sponsoring the Marine Corps Marathon. We've got 15 runners. We need another 10 to fill up, but that's on October 26th, I think it's in DC. Go to our website for more information. Sorry, and those are the next two big ones that are coming up, and so any support. You know, just following us on social media is cool.
Speaker 2:We just had a guy named Matt Rogers, country music artist. He performed a song for a local veteran here in Georgia that committed suicide, command Sergeant Major Corey Moore, and he was a friend with him, reached out and I know I'm friends with, actually, our clinical psychologist. Her husband was good friends with him and he called me the day that he died here in Georgia. Good friends with him, and he called me the day that he died here in Georgia. And this guy, matt Rogers, great dude, just did a tribute concert on Broadway for Nashville. He wrote a song called Camouflage. You can go on Spotify costs you nothing, just download the song. And he's giving us royalties to BKBF for a certain amount of downloads. He'll. You know he gives us all the royalties, so that's cool too and it supports his. You know he's a, he's a patriot and he wanted to do something for the veteran community, even though he's not a veteran, and love that guy and that's another way you got everyone can support. Sorry to blow it up, but hey, I'll take it Absolutely.
Speaker 1:That's what we do here. We support great causes, great organizations. So, yeah, this is a hundred percent what I love to do being able to put a spotlight on great nonprofits that are helping our great veterans, because we deserve it. So many people have done amazing things in the past 20 years of war and it's up to our nonprofit space, our leaders like yourself and every veteran, to dive in and help out where we can. And if that's downloading a song on Spotify, go to the episode description, download it and you'll see a link right here. There you go, make my video editor do some work, lazy bastard. But man, chris, it's been a pleasure having you on, brother, I know you're in the fight every single day and I'm selfishly. We're going to pray and add you to the list that we get 10, 15 years more of you, because the work is there, man, we need you, I'm ready for anything, the last thing I'll say is I'm drinking out of this coffee cup, which made me think of the people.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, I got this in San Antonio when we went to Warriors Heart about a month ago and you know thoughts and prayers to those. You know I don't know when this airs, but you know, obviously, the tragedies and tragic losses out in Texas. Man, shout out to all the first responders and people. You know I feel really bad for those guys. I wish I was closer because I would love to volunteer some time with this cripple to do whatever I could to support. So you know, shout out to all the Texans that are going through some tough times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Texas Hill Country needs everybody, and there's a good amount of people out there right now doing a lot of work. So hats off to you guys that are out there actively helping our Texas Hill Country folks. Man and yeah and again, Chris, thank you so much for what you're doing. Thank you all for tuning in and please do me a favor, Take care of each other and we'll see you all next time. Until then, take care, Appreciate it. Thanks for tuning in and don't forget to like, follow, share, subscribe and review us on your favorite podcast platform. If you want to support us, head on over to buymeacoffeecom, forward slash SecHawk podcast and buy us a coffee. Connect with us on Instagram X or TikTok and share your thoughts or questions about today's episode. You can also visit securityhallcom for exclusive content, resources and updates. And remember we get through this together. If you're still listening, the episode's over. Yeah, there's no more Tune in tomorrow or next week. Thank you.
