Security Halt!
Welcome to Security Halt! Podcast, the show dedicated to Veterans, Active Duty Service Members, and First Responders. Hosted by retired Green Beret Deny Caballero, this podcast dives deep into the stories of resilience, triumph, and the unique challenges faced by those who serve.
Through powerful interviews and candid discussions, Security Halt! Podcast highlights vital resources, celebrates success stories, and offers actionable tools to navigate mental health, career transitions, and personal growth.
Join us as we stand shoulder-to-shoulder, proving that even after the mission changes, the call to serve and thrive never ends.
Security Halt!
Brandon Harding: Veterans, Trauma & the Healing Power of Nature and Community
In this powerful episode of Security Halt!, host Deny Caballero welcomes Brandon Harding, a veteran and advocate for wilderness-based healing, to explore how nature, mindfulness, and community can transform mental health outcomes for those who’ve served.
Brandon shares his personal path from military service to self-discovery in the outdoors—unpacking the emotional weight of military identity, trauma, and the long journey toward healing. From breathwork and mindfulness practices to the simple awe of the wilderness, Brandon discusses how reconnecting with nature opens the door to resilience, clarity, and peace of mind.
This conversation dives deep into the role of gratitude, positive psychology, and guided conversations in helping veterans heal from unseen wounds. Whether you’re transitioning from service or supporting someone who is, this episode offers inspiring tools and real stories of post-service growth.
🎙️ If you believe healing is possible, this episode is for you.
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Chapters
00:00 The Healing Power of Nature
02:59 Brandon's Journey to Healing
06:07 Rediscovering Awe in the Outdoors
08:51 The Importance of Community and Connection
11:59 Guided Conversations and Trauma Processing
15:04 Positive Psychology and Gratitude in Nature
28:25 The Power of Breath and Mindfulness
30:55 Healing Through Wilderness Experiences
33:43 The Burden of Leadership and Vulnerability
38:05 Rediscovering Identity Beyond Military Service
41:01 Experiencing Nature Without Combat Stress
44:12 Letting Go of Emotional Baggage
46:55 Supporting Veterans Through Community Programs
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LinkedIn: Deny Caballero
Connect with Brandon on social media and check out Veterans in the wild today!
LinkedIn: Brandon Harding
Website: Vetreransinthewild.org
Instagram: veterans.in.the.wild
Produced by Security Halt Media
Security Halt Podcast. Let's go. The only podcast that's purpose-built from the ground up to support you Not just you, but the wider audience, everybody. Authentic, impactful and insightful conversations that serve a purpose to help you. And the quality has gone up. It's decent. It's hosted by me, danny Caballero Brandon. How's it going, brother? Welcome to Security Halt. Yeah, hosted by me, danny Caballero Brandon. How's it going, brother? Welcome to Security Hall? Yeah, fantastic Thanks, danny. Yeah, dude, it's great to see organizations and individuals that are championing the idea of getting outside for healing.
Speaker 1:We tend to think that the greatest modalities often come with the confines of an office, a couch and a therapist breaking down our journey, telling us how we should heal and recover.
Speaker 1:But what I've realized in my own path to recovery and my own path to getting better is sometimes we need to experience awe.
Speaker 1:In the great outdoors Foundation and their program Overland, which gets soft veterans out into the backcountry of Utah to experience some of the wilderness that a lot of us don't even know exists. I know, I certainly did not know that Utah was as wonderful as it is, and then, after experiencing that program, I realized a lot of times the greatest moments that we connect in our own lived experience are also linked to combat. They're also linked to environments like Afghanistan. And in order to challenge that idea that our best moments or our greatest moments with awe are locked in those experiences in combat, we need to go out and experience them here in our own great United States, in our own national parks, in our own wild, so we can have that recollection of like man, like I was just in the mountains of Colorado and I got to see bugling Elks, like that's grand. So today, my man, I want to Dan it down. I want to break down your journey, your past, and figure out how you came up with this idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, it kind of started after my third deployment to Iraq. I'd done back-to-back deployments with 1st Battalion, 3rd Marines based out of Hawaii, and I was pretty much spent, you know, I'll admit it, I was kind of like just worn out. I got stationed in Florida and a friend of mine said hey, there's this outward bound veterans program where they will send you on an outward bound expedition and it doesn't cost you anything. And so I went on one of those trips to northern Maine, and this was in August of 2010. And I went up backpacking with a group of all veterans. We had all served in either Iraq or Afghanistan and it was just a great, great experience to be there with these guys. And I ran some programs in the military where I had the ability to influence how we develop these programs, and so often the programs, like you mentioned, it's like sitting on a therapist's couch or going to a conference room kind of thing. And as I reflected back on that time in the wild, I was like that was, that was amazing, and if we tweaked that just a little bit we could even make it better. And so I got connected with a former Marine who had been an outward bound guide for three years. So he had the you know the infantry background and served in the Marine Corps. But he himself had come to find a lot of healing and peace as guiding veterans and others who were outward bound, and so together we decided we were going to create something unique where we were going to take Initially it was all active duty folks stationed at Camp Lejeune, so that's where the program began.
Speaker 2:We started taking 10 Marines at a time, backpacking and rock climbing in the mountains, in the Blue Ridge Mountains, and just had these really amazing experiences Because it was getting outside. But one of the key things that happened is we structured it so that there was some guided conversations around the fire every night and those conversations became the real catalysts to healing, just deep connection, and they were amazing and over the course of doing those just realized like the wild is where it's at, and so began to do that not only for the active duty component, but started doing it for veterans groups as well, and continue to take couples. We added that realm in. So for you know, you and your wife, we we do a couple's adventure where we take, instead of going to a nice hotel and, you know, kind of living the bougie life. We take couples out into the wild and you know they go poop in the woods together, so you know all that kind of fun stuff.
Speaker 2:Um, that's kind of the journey. Um, that's led to where I'm at now, where we we have a nonprofit called Veterans in the Wild and we take different groups out into the wild. I just did a trip two weeks ago in southern Utah. We've done a few there on the Navajo Nation and it's just incredible to go into that desert landscape and just experience that real sense of awe. You know when you're out there.
Speaker 1:And it's just, it's incredible. And specifically in Afghanistan I hear this a lot the mountains. If you're anywhere near the mountains of Afghanistan, a lot of guys just describe vividly flying over these mountain ranges and seeing things that few people have seen, and they can describe the moment of like, dude, we're flying at night and we saw these little blips of light and I just realized that's a remote, remote village and I'm like wondering. I'm sitting in that back of the ramp of that ch47 just thinking to myself like wow, like what is it like to be out there? And like all these moments can like vividly told throughout our g watt generation of veterans of of how they found on these moments climbing and patrolling in these mountains, at like one moment, like you're, you're serious danger but you're pausing and you're looking at these beautiful peaks and you're like wow, holy cow, like I could literally die at any moment. But, holy cow, like look at this and you don't realize.
Speaker 1:When you're talking and you're sharing these details with your friends and your family members, it is kind of sad that all those moments of beauty and awe are locked in and deeply connected to trauma, deeply connected to the sensations and feelings of loss, and we have to help rewrite that narrative. We have to continue living. We have to go out there, have adventures again, which is something that not a lot of people are talking about, aside from the therapy, aside from like being able to talk again and connect with other people. We have to become explorers again. We really do. We have to find the enjoyment of being out in the world and when you look back in your life, is this something that you had growing up? Was? Was the outdoor something that you grew up with? Did you find it later on in life?
Speaker 2:So I grew up in in Southern Utah, the, my hometown, the elevation was 5,600 feet. Every day there was a mountain right behind my house that went up to over 10,000 feet and so every day as a kid we were building forts and hiking around and messing around in there. I think it was, you know, during that military life especially, you know, when you're going to the field, you're doing training ops all of that becomes not very fun anymore and the idea of like going camping or going on some kind of like wilderness thing, I think for a lot of military folks and veterans they're just like oh man, I remember those. Those were not fun at all and so you have to sort of reframe it. In fact, one of our taglines when we were at Lejeune was making camping fun again. You can grow, no one's checking your shave when you're out there. You can just sort of relax and sit around a fire, which a lot of times in training environments, of course, and in combat, you can't build a campfire out in the middle of the wild. That's a security thing, right. So you know, being able to sit around a fire at night and just chat with, you know, with your fellow veterans is an amazing thing, but for me it was rediscovering it.
Speaker 2:When I went on that outward bound trip, I'd gotten away from from sort of being in the wild for a number of years and I think a lot of it was just due to being in the field with the military and deploying with the military, you know, to places that weren't necessarily fun, and so just deciding, yeah, I don't really want to do that. I mean, I remember, after OIF one, I was like I don't think I ever want to go camping again. You know, after sleeping in the dirt next to my home V for you know, months on end, um, I was like, yeah, I'm kind of over this. Um and so doing that trip in the summer of 2010 was sort of like rediscovery, like, you know, that sense of awe that you referred to. There's actually a brilliant book by a psychologist named Docker Keltner and if you haven't read it which obviously it's on your shelf I've read it multiple times and it's an amazing book getting into the science behind why it's so important to have those experiences of awe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I started digging into it myself because I found myself. You know I had forgotten that I had experienced awe as a young man outside of combat, outside of Afghanistan, and I was only reliving, or at least talking about and romanticizing these things, like the mountains of Afghanistan, these moments that seem larger than life, and you hold on to so proudly, and you should. You should look back and be proud of your service and the things you've seen, but don't discount the other thousands or hundreds of other moments where you've experienced outside of combat and then be able to experience the joy of seeing things. I had a really good close friend that was also a Marine, that had been in the initial invasion, and we had a group of Marines that were lost out in Boulder, colorado, and there was an all call for anybody in the Front Range area to go help do a search and rescue. And I remember me and my buddy, brian, went up there and we were hiking for like three days. We're hiking up the Continental Divide just seeing beautiful things that you know you take for granted when you live in Colorado, and I realized that one of those, one of those hikes, you know you're going up past the outlying, you're, you're in snow and you're like, holy shit, we just we're out here hiking this by ourselves, like with no parental supervision, nobody that gives a love, and we're just out here just having an adventure like, just like this, this. I cannot forget this moment. How quickly we forget it for years, completely forgot about that experience, until years later you sit down and you recollect and you realize, oh shit, like done great things. And in that book of awe it also breaks down that this is not something that's well studied and well known, that how it clings to your heart. It brings and evokes so much emotion behind, and that's what we also need to talk about.
Speaker 1:Like a lot of us are dealing with mental health issues, moral injury, ptsd. There's this stopgap, this wall that we built around expressing our own emotions. We do really well with anger. We do really well with anger. We do really well with anger. But, man, let me tell you, you take somebody on an adventure to go see beautiful backcountry settings or seeing mountains in the United States and in so many different places, and you will see emotion finally come through and become an accessible thing.
Speaker 1:You see, people literally have moments of like just crying because they're seeing something that's so beautiful, it moves them and it's like, wow, like we tend to think as being being out in nature, is this one thing oh, we're going to go hunting, we're going to do this backpack, we're going to go with veterans exploration therapy and we're going to go do some outdoor stuff. And it's more than that. It's connecting somebody to who they are, not in the past, not in their past service, but in the moment, who they are and be able to express something. And that's something that we don't talk about enough. We just see it as it's, like we see recreational therapy as as a very one dimensional, but it's it's deeper than that absolutely, and I think, kind of tying into that what, what's been my experience?
Speaker 2:when you take a group of either active duty or veterans or other folks out into the wild, you combine the physical challenge of it and that sort of like preps people for those moments of awe, like, um, you know, you can look at a beautiful photo you know that someone took, you know, or you know someone posts, you know on social media like, oh, wow, that's a really cool photo. It's something completely different when you've spent seven hours going up and down, up and down with, you know, 30 or 40 pounds on your back and then you get to that just uh, it just hits different. It's just a different, a different experience. We refer to it as, like type two fun, you know fun that right in that moment it's not very much fun.
Speaker 2:You're like, oh man, this is kind of sucks. But then when you get to that Vista and you know there's this beautiful scene in front of you, like I've watched many, many, you know grown men, you know service members that tear up as they're looking out over there and, like, like you said, they get in touch with those real emotions that a lot of times they've been keeping down because the military does such a good job of training us, you know, not to feel things, so we have to unlearn some of that.
Speaker 1:Absolutely it's. It's something that I mean you. You hit it right there, nail on the head when you earn something, you're putting in that work. That's something we're intimately familiar with having to get down in the trenches and work for something, but then to be rewarded with a beautiful view versus a 15-minute child break, yeah.
Speaker 2:On our last trip we stopped at this one Canyon. This was just like two weeks ago. It's probably one of the most spectacular views that I've seen. It's it's down in the near Lake Powell, utah, in this desert area, and we spent probably 45 minutes just sitting on the edge of this cliff just looking out over this valley, like everybody was just like just sat there and most of us were quiet because it was just so incredibly beautiful and just taking it all in. I mean I could have stayed there probably all day, but you know we had to move on.
Speaker 2:Eventually we had to get to our destination, but it was just one of those things that you know you can feel your soul expand and you can feel like your humanity grow, which I think is one of the things that happens. You know, after too much, too much time and in rough places where people want to hurt you, you know your, your humanity tends to diminish a little bit, and so that's, that's one of the things that helps, I think, is to grow, grow that sense of humanity again, and the wild does it in a way that other things just don't hit the same way yeah, you know I want to go back to something that you talked about a little earlier.
Speaker 1:We, um, we tend to think that we can just jump into these experiences and, you know, not necessarily utilize a framework, but when it comes to talking about things like we do need a structure at least. Fireside chats are great, but in this community it can often lead to more complex issues of reliving trauma, just sharing combat stories. How did you go about developing, you know, the guidelines for how to approach these discussions around that fireside setting?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. So way back in the day 2004, this was after my first tour to Iraq we got trained by a psychologist named Robert Grant. So Robert Grant had gone all over the world in trauma zones, like some of the most horrific war-torn places on the planet. He would go and help people process what they'd gone through and he trained a lot of clinicians to go into those zones and so he developed this framework that then he began using a lot with the first Marine division and then he came and trained a bunch of us on how to use this with the groups that we were with, and so I had him come speak to our battalion in 2007, before we deployed to Iraq and took all of the staff NCOs and officers and kind of walk them through this process to help folks to be able to to process their trauma while they're in combat, but in a way that didn't make you, um, like you need to. So you need to have a hardness about you when you're out there. You know you can't. Just you know so. So there's this hardness that you have to carry, but you need to learn how to process things in a way that kind of keeps that edge going, but without building up so much trauma that it gets toxic. So his model does that.
Speaker 2:And then in 2018, actually it was COVID, because I remember, because he wasn't sure he wanted to come because of COVID was going on but we had him come to Camp Lejeune again and provide this training again to I think about 25 folks went through it again.
Speaker 2:And so we've used that model of, like his formal name, for it is called a trauma reprocessing group, and so we've used that model, with some modifications that we do around the fire at night when we're in these off the grid locations, and it, like you said, it has a structure to it. It's not just hey, tell me your, tell me your story, um, but it's got a focus to it in a way that it happens to where the trauma, um, or the burden, if you will it's actually relieved. And so what I've found in many, many cases, like an individual can unpack stuff with their therapist or with a counselor or chaplain or whoever they're working with, but it hits differently when they process that with fellow veterans or fellow service members that have experienced those same things. It just happens. It happens in a way that really does lift them up and they can like feel that weight truly come off and and move forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's. There's a lot of efficacy and there's a lot of proof in being able to provide a healing. A healing, and completely. It has to be a tribe or a group that has similar issues and there's a lot.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say that that's one of the kind of like if you think, like our mission, that we sort of you know, describe what we're going to do when we go out into the wild, is that's really it?
Speaker 2:We're trying to create a tribe. We're trying to take these different individuals and a lot of times they don't know each other until you know that day, like they. That's really it. We're trying to create a tribe. We're trying to take these different individuals and a lot of times they don't know each other until that day, like they meet as we link up by the end of that week out in the wild, they describe themselves as a tribe. In fact, we had one sergeant major with us on a trip a couple of years ago at Lejeune who said at the end of the week he said I haven't felt this close to a group of people since my tour in Afghanistan, and that's really what you're trying to do. You're trying to create that culture of safety and belonging with this group to where you can process things in a way that you couldn't do it in any other context.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, one of the things that I always talk about and I try to champion is the the importance of building your network, your community. Have you noticed or have you seen within the participants of your, your program that they stick together and they continue to go off and have their own little little adventures together after going through your program?
Speaker 2:together after going through your program. Yeah, it was funny. Last summer we did one of our marriage expeditions and so at the end of it the couples created their own Facebook group and kept connecting using social media, and then they would post that they were getting together for like coffees and they were going to go have lunch together. And so there have been those One of our first marriage things that we did at Lejeune. Some of those couples continue to stay in close contact five years later. So, yes, I mean it doesn't always happen that way, of course.
Speaker 2:But yeah, with the veterans groups too, one of them that we work closely with is called 23rd Veteran out of Minnesota. They've got a great program where they take veterans for a week off the grid for like this wilderness kind of reset, where you form this tribe and we process things out in the wild and then when they get back, they're committed to staying together for 13 weeks, where they do 13 weeks of CrossFit and positive psychology as a group and then graduate together. So that's a group that we've done a lot of work with. In fact, we did a trip with them to Florida in February and then we're taking them to Alaska in July and they do great work, because that's part of the program is to keep people connected while they work through this stuff together.
Speaker 1:I am so glad you brought up positive psychology, um near and dear to my heart, um mindfulness practitioner, and not enough people know or or appreciate it, and I just want people to realize there are. There's a lot, of, a lot of growth in in different um communities, moving towards or away, I should say, from conventional, modern, conventional approaches, and Positive Psychology is a great read. If you're curious, looking for new alternatives to getting help, I highly encourage it because there's more going right with you than there is going wrong and we need to talk about that. Not enough people are saying that we want to run towards what we think are just focusing on the negatives and the constant problems that we hyper-focus on. We forget all the good that's going on in our lives and that's, I think that's something that's really powerful about going outdoors.
Speaker 1:When you remove yourself from this, going outdoors, when you remove yourself from this, you remove yourself from the constant flow of negative uh ideas and voices. You realize that, um, you know life isn't about being perfect. Uh, you have to fall in love with the process of whatever you're going through, but you have to focus on what's going right in your life. Um, and I think that's something that we find when we go outdoors, when you were making things a little more simpler. Can you just focus on making sure you tie the right knots, make sure you move forward, stay on trail.
Speaker 2:It's interesting, like bringing that up. Like, I'm just like you, I love positive psychology and mindfulness, and so we begin to do some of those practices out in the wild with the folks that are on these trips to sort of help them begin to reframe some things in their life. And, like, one of the big ones is, there is no phones allowed on the trips at all. It's a complete digital detox. And then at the end of every day, before we we share, you know, meals together, cause we want to have like a you know, that communal component of of sharing a meal together at night, and before we we eat, we stand in a circle and have everyone reflect on the day and then everyone shares their gratitude, like, so they, like, you know, they specifically state, hey, today I was really grateful for, and it could have been, you know, they specifically state, hey, today I was really grateful for, and it could have been, you know, something really simple, like, oh, I was really grateful for that little lizard that I saw, you know, going across the trail, or I was really grateful for the conversation that I had with you know, so-and-so while we were on the trail, but it just helps them be more intentionally focused and they know about that.
Speaker 2:They know this is going to be a routine that we're going to do every night and so over the course of the week, you know they're getting in the habit of thinking about that oh, what am I going to share tonight for my gratitude? And so it sort of reframes. What they're focusing on during the day is like, oh, I want to be able to, you know, have something you know good to share. And so you start looking for the good things that are going on while they're on the trail and then the hope is, you know, what we're really hoping is they begin to apply that. And a few years ago I had a guy reach out to me after one of the trips that we did at Lejeune and he said the trip was great, loved everything about it, and the one thing that stuck with me that I've, that I've started doing at home with my kids at night, is we go around the table at night and we share a gratitude before we eat dinner and I was like, yeah, that's super cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny, the competition element of it. When you know you're going to have to be talking about it, any service member is going to be like. Well, I want to have the best share.
Speaker 1:I want to bring up the best thing, and that's oftentimes when I've worked with clients in the past and when I helped somebody cultivate more gratitude in their life. It's like, hey, I need you to go through your day and I don't want your list to be random. I want your top five best moments you completely want to focus on and share. And it's like once you put it out there, like I want you to share your top five, your best moments like, oh man, I'm gonna scrutinize everything and it's like just getting people to realize that that's the joy, that's the true hidden treasure.
Speaker 1:You're going around spending your day looking for moments like I'm gonna open the door for that person, I'm gonna try to be a little more kind of this person, have this moment. And that's just like you put it into somebody's mind this is what you should be focusing on. And then eventually they realize like, oh wait, it's not about the list, it's not about keeping track and numerating. No, it's just being present, being aware that this is happening right now and every day, every day of your life, you're going to have all these things your kids smiling at you when you wake them up, your wife coming in and bringing you a cup of coffee. How quickly that becomes mundane and just becomes your norm and you don't realize how wonderful you have it. That's the thing that easily, when we put more emphasis on those miracles, on those wonderful little moments, the likes and notifications you get from this thing really doesn't mean shit, like no offense.
Speaker 1:I appreciate all of you out there. You're great, but none of you are none of you equal, like come close to how amazing it is to see my little girl staring up at me when I wake her up in the morning. That's the, that's the things that we have to be gracious and show gratitude for that when we look back at our lives. I didn't have that when I was in the military. I'd love to say that I had that awareness when I was on an ODA, when I was on a team, when I was a warrant officer. I didn't have that, and it's not sad.
Speaker 1:No, I'm grateful and I'm so happy I have it now, because then I can advocate for it, I can tell you at home how important it is to have it and cultivate it, and then you can start developing this right out on your own. You don't have to go out in the woods. I would appreciate it if you did, because you need to connect with Mother Nature, but it's something that we don't talk about as much. It's getting a little bit more in the forefront, but it still has this sort of like connotation of the woo, woo and hippie stuff and it's like no, we've, if we look back at the warriors that raised us.
Speaker 2:They they were talking about gratitude back then, maybe with a lot more F-bombs, but yeah, and most of the mindfulness practices that you know people are reengaging with, they're finding out that they're ancient practices. They're not something new that a psychologist came up with, you know, and I love Martin Seligman, but he didn't invent positive psychology. It's been around for a few thousand years.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, it's funny like reading, and I'm actively in my master's program for positive psychology. But it's like you know, ryan Holiday great guy Love it. The Daily Stoic great. But these are practices that have been around for eons, like it's been around. The one that I always throw out to my friends that are really hesitant to it is a simple exercise of confidence in the water.
Speaker 1:I am not a good, I'm not a dive guy, I'm not a water guy, but the first time it clicked that breathing was a powerful tool was with one powerful individual, one powerful mentor that was finally able to get me to calm down and realize that bobbing in the pool was a recovery exercise, not a ploy to punish you. No, it's like breathe, relax. It's like it finally clicked. And then, when I learned about mindfulness, when I learned about focusing on your breath, being present in your breath, I'm like holy shit, this is no different than being on a gun line, being a sniper, managing your breath. When you're bringing these concepts up to our, to your participants, does it ever not become a moment of like God, like it blows my mind every time? Does it still have the same impact on you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think each time that I go and do it it it's just a reminder of how important it is. Like you know, I get back to the quote unquote regular world after being out in the wild and you know it doesn't stick sometimes and so going back out each time is like oh yeah, this is, this is what I need to be doing in my regular life. You know, when I'm back at home, I need to make sure I'm doing all these things and I love like the breath work stuff home. I need to make sure I'm doing all these things and I love like the breath work stuff that's really important and powerful. To like teach people how to breathe, to not be in mouth breather right.
Speaker 1:like you know, yeah, yeah, that's uh. Who. Who would have thought that we would have developed this, uh, this ability to not breathe properly due to the our modern focus on, you know, anxiety and rooted in in our work culture? Like I didn't know, I was breathing wrong, for for eons it took me reading uh breath by uh, oh, gosh, um yeah, I've got it on my shelf upstairs.
Speaker 2:It's a great book. Yeah, but it's it'll come to me.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to look and see where it's out of my shelf, but uh, it's a great book. Yeah, it'll come to me. I'm trying to look and see where it's at on my shelf, but is it Michael Nestor? I believe it's Nestor. Yeah, james, I think it's James Nestor.
Speaker 2:That's where it is.
Speaker 1:yes, but coming into the point of wanting to be better in my own life, my own performance, I started realizing there's something weird about the way I breathe, there's something weird about the way I'm breathing. And sure enough, that book blew my mind as I was constantly reading, scanning emails, but not breathing, just pausing, and I'm like, and he had, that was like one of the first chapters in the book. I was like, wow, like I'm that screwed up, I'm so removed from how my body's supposed to work Like but it's. It's important to understand that nobody's born with this insight. And when you look back on your own journey, you know I've come to realize that a lot of people that build these things often enough build them because they themselves need healing, they need something for themselves. Going all the way back to that young Brandon, like what were you going through and how did this become a way for you to heal?
Speaker 2:That's a great question, I think, for me. I had some tragedies happen when I was a young person. My father was killed in a tragic accident when I was 15. And I think that really impacted me for a long time, sort of like working through that and then joining the military, you know, at a young age. Um, like like many probably people that are listening, you know I was I was 17 when I went to bootcamp way back in the day. Um, so you know, I didn't really ever give my scent myself a chance to really, you know, go through the depths of.
Speaker 2:You know what I needed to do to heal, and I'm probably just barely figuring that out now, at almost age 55. Like, oh yeah, there's probably some stuff back in there I need to unpack. And going into the wild and being exposed to these other people that have shown tremendous courage in what they are being vulnerable about and processing out there in the wild has had that same impact in my own life. Like I want to be better. I want to like work through some of those things you know that impact me as a young person. And you're right, like figuring that out now and, as I've begun, doing those trips has made me more self-aware of the journey that I need to complete. You know I'm. There's a phrase you probably have heard. It's of the wounded healer right, yes, yeah, no, we all carry wounds. And so you know there's, there's nobody that's out there, like you know, that doesn't have something that they're trying to work through, and so I really love the concept of being the wounded healer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's um. I often tell people like, look within your formation for the individual that is so hyper focused on helping and bringing resources to. The guys and gals are in pain or dealing with something, and there you can identify somebody that also needs help. They're often the ones wearing the mask and it's the best, the most pristine mask is the one of the leader that's out there. That's why so many of our star majors, some of our senior NCOs they are the ones that need so much help, because they're holding onto that mask so tightly, because they feel like they have to support everybody else first. And it's not true. You deserve to get healed too. You deserve to have these experiences In your program. Have you noticed that that's oftentimes one of the things that people bring with them, this burden of being a leader or being seen as a leader and feeling like they shouldn't have access to this care?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:You've probably heard this and it's not a secret that as you move up in leadership it gets lonelier and lonelier to sort of set those responsibilities aside.
Speaker 2:So one of the unique well, it's not unique, but one of the requirements in these trips is when we do them for active duty component people, they cannot refer to their rank or what they do in the military, like you know, for the trip. You know they're Eric or they're Bob or they're Susan or whatever, and, and you know, a few people have kind of like you know, are you sure we can do that? And I'm like, yes, absolutely, you have to do that, because it's about you as a person. If you come out here as Sergeant, major so-and-so, or Colonel so-and-so, you're going to stay in that position where you're not going to allow yourself to to be healed or to be to experience that sense of connection and belonging because you're putting yourself, you know, in a different category. And so when they do, when they really do, sort of set that aside and come out there, as you know, denny, you, you come into the wild as Denny it opens a space for them to really receive that healing that they need. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I would imagine you might have had a little bit of pushback from some gunnies.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to think of who had the hardest time. I think the one time that I had the hardest time was, um, an individual that came out that was, uh, he was a Lieutenant Colonel, um, but he had been a, uh, an enlisted Marine and had spent his whole life, you know, in. I mean, he'd been in like 30 plus years, um, and you know, had never done anything but the Marine Corps, and so you know, his whole identity was, you know, you know, around being a Marine, which is a lot of you know. That's one of the great things about the Marine Corps, and getting him to sort of put that aside for a few days, I mean, that was it, he. It challenged him a little bit but at the end of the day he was able to do it and had an amazing experience and good, you know, really. You know really sort of warmed my soul. I think my favorite day was on a day four, when he came to the morning little check-in thing and he hadn't shaved.
Speaker 1:That's a win. Right there, that's a win.
Speaker 2:Cause the first few days I heard is like a little electric razor going like he was I'm surprised he wasn't the canteen cup you heard the big razor just dry shaving. I'm sure he's done it thousands of times over the course of, you know, 30 plus years in the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1:Oh man.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That was fun and we have to understand. It's funny, but it speaks to the dedication that a human being has, not only to our nation, not only to the men and women that they swore to protect and defend, but to their entire service, to be dedicated to this one mission and make it their 100%, their identity, their entire personality, and to be willing to take a knee and pause and say, no, I'm more than this this morning. And it's not. It's not simple folks. It's not just a simple gesture. It's. For a lot of people, it's a big step forward in understanding that there's somebody else, there's an identity.
Speaker 2:And I think that's one of the key things that these wilderness trips really help people do, especially for the veterans. When you're in the military, that kind of is your identity and it probably needs to be your identity for that period of time. But when you get out, whether you serve four years or eight years or did a full career, you know, whatever you did. I know for me, when I retired from the military, I had 35 years of total military service. So I, you know, I was 17 when I went to bootcamp, like I said earlier. So I needed, you know, some of that transition away from that identity. And so I think a lot of veterans that's, you know, that's one of those key transition things that they need is like okay, who am I? You know, my military career told me I was a, you know this, um, but but who am I? And so they come out into the wild and there's something really powerful to when you're out.
Speaker 2:There's something really powerful too when you're out there with this group of people. You're off the grid and, just like a couple of weeks ago, in this area where we're at, there's almost no light from other sources. It's truly one of the most remote places you can go, so there's not ambient light coming in from other places. In fact, you don't really even see airplanes airplanes like jet airliners there are a few that crossover, but that's one of the things.
Speaker 2:I think they might've talked Well, no, that was a different book anyway but they're able to like look up at the stars and really see the sky for maybe the first time, like really like look at it. And we had a, a meteor shower that happened one of the nights and it was just amazing. Just to look out there and you kind of just I don't know realize, yeah, it just taps you into something bigger, um, when you're out there in the wild, something that just resonates, you know, at a deeply spiritual, you know soulful level and that helps shift away from oh, I'm more than just you know whoever you were when you're in the military.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's something that we have to force ourselves to go out there and experience it again. That's another powerful thing that I hear often, like the first time people see a true night sky without the pollution from the city, it's when they're in Iraq or Afghanistan. That was a powerful thing for me.
Speaker 2:After every mission, my first, uh, first trip just go out there at night, grab the old ipod, grab a pack of cigarettes and lay on the hood of the humvee and look up, just yep and be able to like realize like wow, like these are stars that I can't see normally in the united states, because lights yeah, some of my very favorite um experiences in iraq, and then later when I was deployed on an aircraft carrier we're watching the sun rises, come up like go up there when it was still completely dark and just watch the sun as it would come up. You know, you ever been out in the open ocean where there's nothing like you're? You know, and you watch the sun come up? That's, that's really amazing. And the same thing, true, you know, with with Iraq. I didn't spend any time in Afghanistan, but I'm sure it was very similar.
Speaker 1:It's those beautiful moments that we need to force ourselves to experience here in a, in a, in a different time, a different setting, and be able to tell ourselves like we can see wonderful things and not have to worry about getting mortared or rocketed.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, that's the beautiful thing, right, you're out in the wild and we were joking um on this last trip. That one of the beautiful things is we didn't have to set up a fire watch, like you know. You weren't going to have to. Okay, well, you got up from one to you know, we just went to sleep and enjoyed the peace of being in a really remote, beautiful place and without those extra stressors that come like with being in a combat environment where you know legitimately you have to take precautions or your life could be at risk.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:In the lives of the people that you're with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's being able to experience it without that, like you do want some excitement and a little bit of adrenaline rush, um, but not to the point where that's you're tapping into that fight or flight, and that's. That's the one of the big key things too right, like being able to experience wonderful things without it being connected to your fight or flight response yeah, the amygdala is turned off and you can just, you know, just enjoy it.
Speaker 2:And there is like we have some areas on some of these hikes where what we call is a high consequence fall, like it's like legit, like you know, there's like eight or nine inches of trail and on one side is a 600 foot drop and if you misstep, you know, but it gets you hyper focused on getting through that part and not having that but it's not the same, I don't't think is um, when you know someone's targeting you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, very different. You know there's the other thing that, um, we have to move away from is the idea that doing these things will somehow like take away the um, your warrior's edge, like doing things to get better and to move forward You're you certainly have to let go of these myths and dogma, but you're not letting go or moving away from the warrior that you are. Like that's something that a lot of people still hold on to, like if I go do these things to help me process or to help me deal better with my anger, I'm letting go of the guy that got me through my deployments. And that's not the truth. That's not reality. Reality is you need to connect and be able to process things.
Speaker 1:That person, that part of you, is still going to be there. You're still a capable warrior. You're just helping deal with some of the baggage you have that you've carried through those deployments, through those life events, or you dealt with some trauma. Have you been able to to break that through? And break through that, that protective coating some of the hardened individuals that come through the program?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah, yeah, and it's really great to watch as that happens, as they do set aside those things. And you know the analogy sometimes and this is where, like being on the trail and backpacking, you know, comes into play. And you know, in the military, you know the rock life is a real thing, you know, live in the rock life. Like each one of those traumas or those things that you didn't process, it's like putting another rock in your pack. So how effective are you if you're carrying an extra 40 or 50 pounds of rocks in your pack? Like you can't move, shoot and communicate in the same way that you could if your pack only had what it needed in it.
Speaker 2:But each one of those things, those burdens, you know it's like an extra. You know it's like an extra. You know five to 10 pound rock you're putting in your pack, and so that metaphor, you know, helps people. Just, you know, kind of think through, I'm like, oh yeah, this is going to actually make me, you know, like, but putting this down, taking this out of my pack, actually makes me better at being a soldier or a Marine or, you know, whatever, whoever's out there with us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so true. Shed the weight, get rid of that. Yeah, whatever you're carrying, understand that you can process it Like you don't, and it's.
Speaker 1:It's not for me to tell you when to do it, but your family and the people closest to you, they'll probably let you know that there's some things you need to let go of. There's some things you need to move forward. Man, like, the best years of your life aren't behind you, they're ahead of you. So move forward into your life with a sense of purpose, a sense of clarity and a sense that you've accomplished great things and you're leaving all the bullshit behind you. You don't have to carry it. Whatever you're dealing with, trust me, you can get over it. You can move through it. The obstacle is the way. Lean into it, don't ignore it anymore. And I'm sure, brandon, you can be a testament in your own journey and share what it's done for your life to face things and and say you know what. I'm going to make my next chapter be of purpose and of service to other people and I'm not going to carry this with me anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, as I reflect back on, you know my service and the sort of the burdens that I've carried, um, being able to like lay those down is it makes a huge difference. You know, like you, I'm married. My wife and I we've been married almost 29 years and you know, if I'm not right, she makes sure you know let's. That's the benefit of a great wife is, you know they'll, they'll help you understand. You know the rocks that I'm not willing to put down. They're like hey, I see you've got a big rock in your pack. How come you're still all that around? It's like, oh, yeah, you're right, I need to, I need to let that you know, lay that down, cause, at the end of the day, it's about the most important people in your life, which, hopefully, that's your. You know. If you're married, that's your spouse. If you have kids, that's your kids, and if you don't have a spouse or kids, you know it's other important people.
Speaker 2:At the end of the day, it's it's always about relationships. It's, um, you know, maybe your relationships with people that you served with when you were in. Maybe it's, you know, other relationships, family members, you know. But so one of the ways that I like to frame. You know, those burdens or those things that I'm carrying is in what? How are they getting in the way of me having a deeper, you know healthier, relationship with the people that I care about? And you know, that's one of those hard look in the mirror kind of things like, okay, yeah, this thing that I'm carrying, it's, it's getting in the way, so I need to do something about it. Um, and that's sometimes the hardest part, you know it's it's taking action on that thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah and uh. Brandon, I can't thank you enough for being here today. And one last thing if people want to participate in your program, how do they get ahold of you, how do they sign up and where are some of the places you've gone to in the past?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the easiest way is our website, veteransinthewildorg. We're a nonprofit so you know some of it's based on how much fundraising we have coming in and our ability to offer programs. So right now the programs that we have open, we've got a couple of marriage enrichment expeditions for the couples that are out there. We also have one that we haven't announced yet, but we'll have a couple more, actually two more this fall where we'll have folks Olympic National Park area or in the desert southwest in Utah near Lake Powell, and we've used the desert southwest one because it's just a next level kind of experience, to be honest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know that book that we referred to by Dr Keltner, awe like this area inspires more awe than any other place I've ever been to. And you combine it with the Navajo Nation. One of the elders there we've gotten to know fairly well and so he'll come and give a little talk to the veterans about the sacredness of that land and how their warriors reintegrated back into society and that's been really powerful to go into the Navajo Nation, just setting the stage of this really sacred place to go into. So those are the two main areas, but we've done trips in Florida. Our trips originally began in North Carolina and we may be back in North Carolina. We're headed to Alaska this summer as well. That one's kind of a closed entry, though, because it's being done with an organization called 23rd Veteran, but the website is the best place for people to learn more about the programs that we offer, and you can sign up on the website.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Guys. If you do me a favor, just pause right now. Go to the episode description, either on YouTube, Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Look at those links, Go ahead and give them a click. Can they donate directly to the website if they go?
Speaker 2:there they can. Yeah, there's a Donate Now button, so if anybody's feeling like, hey, I'd love to help support veterans through one of these programs, that would be amazing.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so, if you're already there, throw them a couple bucks 25, 30, 50, maybe a cool hundred grand, help fund them for the next year or two, I don't know. Whatever you want, whatever you want, it's important for us to support these programs because not only are they giving back to our community, they're helping our brothers and sisters. Look, the suicide epidemic is not going away and no one's going to solve it for us, but we can support individuals that are actually in the fight, helping stem this problem, and that's what Brandon's doing. That's what we need to support him and his organization. So, please, whatever you got today, if you can spare a couple of bucks, send them your way. You know, help, contribute, help, put some money out there to help programs like this keep going, because I know they make a difference.
Speaker 1:Some of my friends have been participants in programs like this and let me tell you, it changes lives. I myself, I'm headed over to utah here in a couple days to be part of their overland program, which is amazing and every time I go there I'm able to see my uh queen beret brothers go from. You know, some of them are dealing with real world issues and they walk in and you see them. They're struggling and afterwards, after just five days out in some of the most amazing, beautiful areas of Utah, they're a complete different person. So I know that these programs help save lives. So please, seriously, if you can donate today, please do so.
Speaker 1:Brandon, I can't thank you enough for what you're doing and for joining me today. It's an absolute pleasure to connect with you on here, brother, and if you guys need anything, please reach out. And to everybody listening, thank you for tuning in. I truly appreciate it. Head on over to YouTube, give us a follow, a like and a subscribe. If you give us a review, I'd appreciate that too. I'm Denny Caballero. Thank you for tuning in and we'll see you all next time. Until then, take care. Thanks for tuning in and don't forget to like, follow, share, subscribe and review us on your favorite podcast platform. If you want to support us, head on over to buymeacoffeecom forward slash SecHawk podcast and buy us a coffee. Connect with us on Instagram X or TikTok and share your thoughts or questions about today's episode. You can also visit securityhallcom for exclusive content, resources and updates. And remember we get through this together. If you're still listening, the episode's over. Yeah, there's no more Tune in tomorrow or next week.
