Security Halt!
Welcome to Security Halt! Podcast, the show dedicated to Veterans, Active Duty Service Members, and First Responders. Hosted by retired Green Beret Deny Caballero, this podcast dives deep into the stories of resilience, triumph, and the unique challenges faced by those who serve.
Through powerful interviews and candid discussions, Security Halt! Podcast highlights vital resources, celebrates success stories, and offers actionable tools to navigate mental health, career transitions, and personal growth.
Join us as we stand shoulder-to-shoulder, proving that even after the mission changes, the call to serve and thrive never ends.
Security Halt!
Jess Tandler: West Point, Infantry Leadership & Life After Service
In this empowering episode of Security Halt!, host Deny Caballero sits down with Jess Tandler—a West Point graduate, former infantry officer, and trailblazing female leader in the military. Jess shares her raw and inspiring journey through the ranks, from her early days in a military household to tackling the challenges of Ranger School, Airborne School, and leadership in male-dominated environments like SOCOM and the 82nd Airborne.
With humor and grit, Jess opens up about navigating identity, resilience, and leadership as a woman in uniform. She reflects on the power of mentorship, coping with adversity, and the critical role of support systems in maintaining mental health and wellness in the military. The conversation also explores her transition into entrepreneurship, where she now channels her passion into creating natural wellness products for the veteran and civilian communities alike.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in authentic leadership, women in combat, military transition, and building a life of purpose beyond service.
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Jess Tandler's Journey
03:00 Growing Up in a Military Family
06:14 The Decision to Join the Military
08:52 Experiences at West Point and Early Career
11:57 The Role of Humor in Military Culture
15:03 Facing Challenges as a Female Leader
17:58 Navigating Controversy and Professionalism
21:05 Resilience and Moving Forward
25:39 Integrity and Personal Values
28:11 Support Systems in Adversity
32:31 Coping Mechanisms and Mental Health
36:07 Cultural Shifts in Military Wellness
39:46 Embracing the Present Moment
45:32 Transitioning from Military to Civilian Life
53:39 The Reality of Leadership in the Military
56:03 The Importance of Staff Time and Training Management
01:01:23 Transitioning from Military to Entrepreneurship
01:06:22 Creating a Business with Purpose
01:12:59 Building a Community Around Natural Products
Instagram: @securityhalt
Tik Tok: @security.halt.pod
LinkedIn: Deny Caballero
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LinkedIn: Jessica Tandler
Instagram: tandlerstryinghard
Website: tandlerstallow.com
Produced by Security Halt Media
Security Out Podcast. Let's go the only podcast that's purpose-built from the ground up to support you Not just you, but the wider audience, everybody. Authentic, impactful and insightful conversations that serve a purpose to help you. And the quality has gone up. It's decent and it's hosted by me, danny Caballero.
Speaker 2:Jess Tandler Welcome Security Out podcast. How are you doing?
Speaker 3:Hey, denny, thanks for having me. I'm doing great.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I love my mission of being able to reach out and find amazing entrepreneurs, but when I find them within the veteran space and specifically within the soft space, I get super excited. So when I found out about your company and what you're doing, I immediately wanted to have you on. So today I don't want to just dive in your business endeavors, I want to find out how you got involved in that world. But you're also a veteran and I want to know how and why you got involved with serving our nation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so back in way up, I'm an army brat, so both of my parents were in the army, in the GWAT, and they were actually divorced. They divorced when I was really young and remained friends, but because they were divorced, they were the army was allowed to deploy them at the same time. So and they were MPs, so they were doing like the 15 month rotations to Iraq and I remember.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and one year, like those deployments overlapped and so it was like kind of a choice, like, like you can go live with your grandma. There's this, uh, boarding school down in florida that started accepting girls. Like you can go there. And I was like, oh, boarding school all day, you know, because like as much as living in a retirement neighborhood sounded like a great time, you know, it was just like I felt like we were all leaving. It wasn't like my parents were leaving and then I was getting left behind. So I set out on my own adventure. It's kind of what it felt like. So that was a military boarding school. It was like an Air Force-esque kind of vibe. And so during my time there, I was like, oh, I'm never joining the military, like I've seen what this has done to my family. I'm stuck here in this military boarding school by myself, even though it was my choice, you know, then you do it and then get mad. So I was like, yeah, this is probably not for me.
Speaker 3:Um, and so, you know, fast forward, I graduate high school and go to a super hippie college in California. Um, hippie college in California, um, uc Santa Cruz, the mascot like a banana slug, yeah, so I was out there and I just didn't fit in like at all, and I loved everybody there. I loved, you know, the friends that I did have, but it was just like the worldview was just so different. Like my family's got a ton of people in the military. They were constantly deploying Um, and the culture at UC Santa Cruz was great in its own reason, um, but I just couldn't get there from where I was and they were never going to get to where I was at, where they were, and I was like you know what, like I don't fit in here.
Speaker 3:What's going on here is great, um, and maybe I need to look at. You know, is there something I can do to make sure that these people never have to change their worldview? You know, like they're living in this bubble of peace and their problems are their problems and like let's, that's awesome. You know, like there's a lot of stuff that's like they don't have to worry about and on top of that, like college super expensive. You know there's a lot of stuff that's like they don't have to worry about, um, and on top of that, like college super expensive.
Speaker 3:You know, like, even with oh yeah my parents, like disabled, veteran status and the education benefits that brought me, it was still crazy expensive. So I was like this is not, like I can't make this investment when I don't feel confident about like where I'm going. So I was you know. What I could do to put all of this on pause so I can figure my shit out was drop out and join the military. So I enlisted in 2013 as a postuling list and I chose that job, like I needed the student loaner payment. So like that, narrowed down the jobs I was choosing from and just from like seeing you know from the outsider's perspective, but still in a military family, like how the war was playing out. And then I like history. I like military history. So in my mind, like when the world's in trouble, or like particularly when America's in trouble, the entire weight of everything we've built is thrown behind the infantrymen, like at the end of the day. And I was like at that time, I can't be that guy because they didn't allow women. So I was like, well, what can I do that I feel like best supports that guy and posh two linguists. Like made a ton, ton of sense just because, like in Afghanistan, culturally, like you can't jump out of a truck I'm sure you know and just talk to whoever you want over there. So I was like, well, if I can be that type of an asset, then that's what I'm going to do. And so I chose to do that. While I was in language school they started talking about, like you know, seeing if women could do like a pre-ranger program and piloting this and piloting that, and so like kind of those winds of change were starting to blow.
Speaker 3:And upon, like graduation, west Point, like scrubs, all the ERBs of the soldiers that go through DLI, typically because they're a good fit, right, they're coming out of the academic environment. You know some of them have college, they've taken SAT, whatever. So I popped on that and they were like, hey, do you want to apply to go to West Point? And I was like, huh, like I could put my career in an incubator while the army figures this stuff out and maybe get closer to the job that I want to do and I can finish my degree. So it sounds like great opportunity. So I took it.
Speaker 3:Like you know, I at first I thought like my parents were behind it, because my dad was like a battalion sergeant major at the time, which to me seemed like a huge deal. You know, I was like I called him and I was like they're asking me to go to West Point. Like, like, did you call somebody? Like what is going on? And then, like they're like you have a day to make this decision. Because I was on orders, like I was leaving, and, uh, I was like they told me I have a day to decide and my dad's like that's, there's no way. That's what's going on. Like number one, I didn't call anybody there. You're probably misunderstanding what's going on. So, like, like, I'm, like Dad, I need you to help me make this decision. And he didn't believe what was happening.
Speaker 3:So I was like, oh well, you know, I guess I'll do it. And so, yeah, so I, you know, go to West Point and my freshman year, that's when those first two girls graduated ranger school and then that November they opened up the combat arms branches to women. So you know, fast forward three years or whatever where it's time for me to decide on my branch. Super easy choice. Like I ranked like infantry number one and then every single other branch with a branch detail infantry after that, and like at the bottom was like armor aviation, like the stuff where you couldn't branch detail infantry. After that, and like at the bottom was like armor aviation, like the stuff where you couldn't branch detail infantry. Because, like, I knew exactly what I wanted to do. Um, because in my mind, like again, you know, I I don't think like the regular infantrymen kind of get the attention that they deserve. Um, because you can't hold terrain with bombs, like, and you can't mass produce soft. There's just so many things that on a large scale.
Speaker 3:you need those guys, and so that's what it's all about. When America's truly in trouble, Absolutely. I wanted to get as close to that guy as I could.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we forget and people don't understand this and it gets muddled Soft, gets highlighted so much. But it's a supporting effort. It is not the main effort. You're never going to the, the idea, and it's funny, the, the g watt, completely removed focus of what special forces? Which is, when you say special forces, that only that's, that's just green ber, we're irregular, we're the unconventional forces guys. Our jobs traditionally should be by with and through with a partner force in support of large scale operations. The meat and potatoes of combat it's always going to be your infantry, it's always going to be shout out to the alma mater, the schoolhouse that made me 2504. It's your paratroopers, it's your ground force dudes. And we don't talk about what it takes to become an infantryman, what it takes to really get in there, because, let me tell you, I'm a proud graduate of infantry school, I'm a proud graduate of the 82nd. Uh, it's a lot of work, especially for our young officers, because, I hate to tell you, this west point does not prepare you for walking in to that company area?
Speaker 3:absolutely not. You know what I mean. Like no chance.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was uh, it was a and and the biggest transition, like talking about young officers, like hitting the line. I first noticed it in airborne school, cause like we think you take a West pointer, it's peer leadership all the way through West point and then peer leadership all the way through Ibolek, and then obviously peer leadership, like hugely important to range school, and you don't have the rank on. You don't have none of that stuff on in ranger school and but at airborne school you don't have the rank on. You don't have none of that stuff on in ranger school and uh, but at airborne school you do have the rank on. So for me I was like standing in a formation feeling like I was just another private right, but like there's privates in that formation that look at you as an officer, like you might be that first officer that they've ever been really close with um, and so you have to like flip a switch and conduct yourself accordingly really really fast, whereas like you haven't really had to do that in the past, you know. So like that was a.
Speaker 3:Luckily I got to work out the kinks at airborne school. I definitely don't think I perfected it by the time I showed up to one fury. But cause that was my first battalion I was in, I showed up to one fury, but cause that was my first battalion I was in Um. But yeah, that like you don't get prepared for that at all because your whole pipeline is pure leadership. And it's good that it's that way, cause that's the hardest, that's the hardest way to lead Um. But like realizing that those young eyes are on you and like you might be the first officer they run into and that kid might be a star major one day. And if you like, act like a jackass, you know, then you create a star major. That doesn't like lieutenant, that's just not good for anybody. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:That's how they get, that's how they exactly, how they're created. That's exactly what happens. I've seen it happen in real time in our dens Core memory created.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it happen in real time in our dens core memory created. Yeah, yeah, it's a canon event in life. Yeah, one of those guys, but yeah, so, um, but yeah, the, the road to the 82nd wasn't overly challenging, like I was with my buddies and like all that stuff. Um, I actually got fired from my first platoon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, over, uh, over memes no yeah, so that's, that's a, that's a whole world. I did not understand yeah.
Speaker 3:So it was like back, this is like 2019, 2020, like the military meme community on instagram was like building, but it wasn't really anything that serious yet. Um, and so my buddy started a meme page called this is not pre-ranger, because that was just like in iBolic. They would be like this is not pre-ranger, like we're teaching you to be an infantry officer, we're not preparing you for range school, and like they had to say that because in my opinion, ibolic is 100% pre-ranger, like you know. So we were just like cooking the entire like poi and everything that was going on in that school on that meme page and like we would just send them to my buddy and like he would post them. And I just did my like beyonce and destiny's child move and I was like I think I have a unique take here, so I'm gonna start my own meme page and I.
Speaker 3:I named it, call her, sir. A spoof on the call her daddy podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because, like the eye bullet cadre, there was like five girls in the class at the time.
Speaker 2:Holy shit, I remember your meme page no. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember it. Yeah, quick segue I was in Afghanistan during that time period and what we would do is we would make actual paper memes after each mission, like we would do our AARs and whatever crazy shit happened. We would turn it into a meme. It would go up on the wall with like the date, time, group of the mission. It would be like, yes, yes, this, this is like what represents our fine deployment, like this mission, we made a mission meme every single time. But I remember going through and I not clearly remember your page. Yeah, holy shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my friend and I, because there's like five girls and I Bullock at the time. And for people who are not familiar with, like the infantry pipeline, I Bullock is the infantry basic officer leader course Um, every branch has one and that one's ours and there was like five of us in there and at the time that was like a very large number. Like this was the most women that had been in I Bullock at one time like ever. And um, the cadre would like cause the NCO cadre at I Bullock still call you like sir, ma'am, whatever, and I think that's a good thing because you kind of like get used to that and it helps you conduct yourself accordingly, because you're not a college kid anymore, you know, I mean, and but they would, they would put their little spin on it. It would be like a, what the fuck are you doing, sir? You know like I'm letting you feel bad that still happens in sf yeah, exactly, they find a way.
Speaker 3:But but yeah, so they would call us like sir, on accident and at the time, like we hadn't shaved our heads yet or nothing like that, because we didn't need to and I bullocked, so like we still had like long hair and it's like all right guy, like come on, we've infantry's been open for a while. Like I'm not a dude, you know, but so we, you know, came up with the meme page title and like the kind of what I was getting at was like, um, as we integrate, we can all laugh at ourselves. You know what I mean. Like when it gets too stuffy and too prude and everyone's on eggshells around each other, like like no one wants to work in that environment.
Speaker 3:But we can all. We can all laugh at ourselves. Like we can laugh at creepy dudes in the cop just as hard as we can laugh at, you know, a small girl trying to hoist a large man onto her back. You know like, because both of those things are hilarious, and like we can all laugh at ourselves and just like, fucking relax a little bit because like integration can can be really tense, you know, and that's not like the armies of people business, and like you got to figure out how to get people to work together at the end of the day at the end of the day, that the orders came down, you can't, you got to go with it, you got to move with it.
Speaker 2:Like things are happening, whether you like it, whether you agree with it um, everybody has their own opinions but at the end of the day, like you have to get over it, continue to move along with the mission yeah, and I think what gets lost is like um, no one, no, no one told me how to be a female infantry platoon leader.
Speaker 3:I just learned how to be a platoon leader, but like I would be kidding myself if I said that like it was exactly like being a dude, like it was very different than being a dude, but no one was telling me how to do that. On the flip side of the coin, nobody is telling my platoon sergeant how to now have the first female platoon leader that this battalion has had. You know, for example, I don't know if I was the first one in the battalion, but like that's just like an example, because a lot of these NCOs that I worked with had not been in that position before either. So no one's writing a manual to tell young leaders how to carry out policies that are coming from the Pentagon. So like the very least we can do is like crack some jokes about it. You know what I mean and that didn't go over like great.
Speaker 3:But I like I shut the meme page down after I left um benning because I was like you gotta grow up. Like no one wants a platoon leader who's like a meme lord like maybe some people do, but like I mean I was a private once and you just want a leader without baggage. So it was just like get, get your tab and get your airborne wings and get up there and start learning. So I shut the main page down, kind of focused on that. Um, but some investigation had started before I left spending, but I was never notified by like an IO or anything that I was under investigation. So when I showed up to my battalion and I, you know, a couple weeks later got put into a platoon, I like had no idea like anything was wrong.
Speaker 3:Um, and yeah, like we were in the field and I get told by my commander like hey, we, hey, we got to go see the BC and I'm like that's not good. Like you know, he's probably not telling me, he's not calling me out of the field to tell me like I'm doing a great job. You know what I mean. You know I'm sitting there like thinking of every wrong thing I've ever done and I'm like dude, it could be anything. You know like, I have no idea. And then I come, I go in there and he's like irate, immediately, like screaming mad. You know like, maybe if you sat him down he would tell you he wasn't screaming.
Speaker 2:I felt like I was being screamed at Either way.
Speaker 3:either way, it was a scary situation for me. I'm standing up like locked up dude and I'm just like what am I in here for? And he's like, because he's speaking in vague terms about like not being a professional we can't have leaders like this in our formation. And I'm like dude, he's not giving me anything here. Man, Like what the fuck is it? And then he starts talking about me. Man, like what the fuck is it? And then he starts talking about me and I was just like I had to like hide the look of relief on my face because I'm like, oh, it's me like this is not a big deal. You know, it was a big fucking deal because, like the cg of the maneuver center of excellence had sent this investigation over to all american six and then it came down and landed on my baton commander's desk.
Speaker 3:So like I was in it and just had like no idea, because, like in the infantry, like I mean you remember the stuff that said in the cough, you know. And now everybody's got these like signal group chats, like there's some wild shit that like flies around. So I was like well, none of the memes I made were like that bad, you know, and I was like this is a bunch of infantrymen like they're gonna clutch their pearls, like they're like southern baptist ladies over my over my memes.
Speaker 3:Well, they were like pearls were being clutched. They were very upset and uh yeah, so I got ripped out of that platoon. Um got a very strongly worded gomar from all american sticks like threatening to because I didn't get a chance to rebut the investigation. Like the whole process was just really weird because it was happening between two installations and like um, he was talking about kicking me out of division and I'm like where are they going to send me? Like alaska, you know? Like what the fuck is going on? Dude, I can't be up there like I ain't built for this shit dog I was like dude, just kick me out.
Speaker 3:Man like um. So I I paid my tenants with like nine months on staff, um, not ideal, but I the only thing I could do was like continue to perform. Um, and some days I didn't want to, like, some days I was mad, like at this system, at what I perceived to be some double standard vibes going on. You know, um, because again, like I had heard the jokes and things that were being said around me that like probably would have offended somebody else. Didn't offend me, because I think it's exactly like I've been in the infantry for a reason because I think they're super funny.
Speaker 3:That was one of the big ones. They're a joy to be around.
Speaker 2:It should have been a badge.
Speaker 3:You're truly one of us and the battalion had a meme page at the time, but devil actual or whatever. It was like a meme page of one theory at the time. And while I was being like, while all american six was deciding on my gomar or whatever, the star major of the army at the time addressed this whole meme thing and said on his instagram like if you're a leader going after these meme pages, you need to take a look in the mirror because you're focusing on the wrong thing. And I'm just sitting there like hello, like he has spoken, you know, but he does not speak to the officer corps. Barely, I got absolutely gassed, but I the dudes in that battalion didn't do this to me, you know, like number one, it was my own actions. I made the means, I knew I was putting myself at risk because, like, conduct on becoming of an officer is a loosey, goosey term. You know what I mean. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, like I took the risk of doing some shit that could be construed as unprofessional and getting, like you know, torched over it, and and then maybe there was some leaders above me who saw an opportunity to get someone out of their formation that they didn't want there, you know, like I was gonna ask, I was gonna never know, man, because like it is what it is, you know.
Speaker 3:But but the guys didn't do that to me, the paratroopers didn't do that to me. So, even though I was on staff and a job that I really didn't like working for a couple majors who kind of think, took some enjoyment and like twisting the knife a little bit, you know, um, it was like a sled dog mentality, man. Like you're hooked up, so just like you got to keep going for them, um, because they still deserve like the best staff work that you have to offer, even though though it's not glamorous, like it makes a real difference in the training that they're able to do. So like I kept working hard, it got noticed and once my GOMAR was said and done, the same battalion commander that wanted to kick me out of his formation basically said like whatever way this investigation goes, like I'll find somewhere else for you to work. Was like what he told me, whether you get in trouble or not. Like you're not gonna, you're not gonna be in this formation.
Speaker 3:And at the end of it he did. He asked me to stay, um, and part of me wanted to leave, like bounce over to 2p or like another battalion in the brigade. But I was like you know what, like I busted my ass to prove myself when I got here and this entire battalion just saw me get knocked down, you know. And so how good would it be for them to see me stand up and like, continue to lead and bounce back from something and like whatever dudes that I'm leading. If I recommend you for an Article 15 to the commander, just know that I'm not doing it lightly, because I have been there.
Speaker 3:So like don't tell me I don't know what you're going through. If you're in trouble and you're in some hot water, like you know, we're going to hold you accountable. We're going to do the right thing by the formation but, like on the other side, as a team, we'll get you through this, you know, cause I had friends in the battalion that did that for me. So like um, so I chose to stay and ended up, you know, doing another round of rifle platoon leaders, successful that time, and then moved on to um, heavy weapons platoon, so the deco, the deco platoon at the end. So I'm I'm glad I stayed. Um, it was a pretty hilarious thing to like get in trouble for, but the memes come in handy, like the skills for like my guerrilla marketing I do for my for dandler sallow so it's like I'm still putting those skills to use, still making like trash memes all the time.
Speaker 2:But well, jess, I want to. I want to go back and and kind of reflect on this journey with you. One thing that we talk about on the show is resilience and grit, and we know you can't build that in the happy-go-lucky world. You have to go through some shit to build it. You're not wanted, at least culturally and in the eyes of the vast majority. You're entering a world that not a lot of the women are going into.
Speaker 2:You're choosing to walk in there saying like I've dreamt of this, I want to do this, and whether you agree with the laws and regulations and the changes, like at the human level, you have to respect that. I've dreamt of this, I've literally wanted to do this. Can you at least see that I have a passion for this? The doors have been opened, whether you agree with it or not, can you at least look at me as a human being that has a heart, that has dreams and wants to do this, when a whole bunch of other men don't? I want to be here. And then you go through this challenge of getting removed and getting sent to like the worst fucking place on earth, and that's any staff section, special operations or a conventional fortune fuck staff you get sent there how?
Speaker 2:how did you keep the hope alive and how do you keep yourself moving forward?
Speaker 3:so I just had to remember, um, that I was the same person the day before I got in trouble as I was the day after I got in trouble. Like the Army's got its regulations, it's got its rules. You break them. You owe something to the institution for that. Like whatever, that does not change who you are. There's plenty of people who, like never actually get in trouble in the Army. That probably should you know and they got to deal with that on like their own personal level. But, like I knew that I was the same person with the same passion, with the same focus and like the same drive, and I didn't know what was going to happen. Like I could have gotten kicked out of the army and at that time I would have had to pay West Point back like 250k. Like I could have gotten kicked out of the army and at that time I would have had to pay West Point back like 250 K. Like it could have ruined you know what I mean Like you have to serve that first contract and if you don't, you owe West Point money. So it's free college, like with a condition of you're doing five years. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So, like it was, um, it was scary, but like I had done a lot to get there and I was not going to let like some administrative process compromise like my values, my integrity and like my character. And maybe some people thought I had shitty character because I was sitting here like making these memes that were kind of disloyal to the institution or whatever, like opinions on my character being what they were. Like I was still the same person and so I was like, well, I'm not. Like my dad used to always tell me, like integrity is the only thing no one can take away from you. You can only give that away. And it's not integrity in terms of like just just telling the truth all the time or whatever, like that's part of it. But like another part of integrity is just like the fabric of who you are and like standing as yourself in front of whatever challenge or adversity is in front of you.
Speaker 3:And so, yeah, you know I was in a bad situation but I was still the same person. So I just refused to compromise that. I changed my approach, like I learned from you know the mistake, if you want to call it, of running that meme page, breaking a rule and getting in trouble, but where it came from was a good place and I was trying to do a good thing, so I was like I'm going to continue to. That person is a good person. We just got to find a different way to channel it that I don't get in trouble and I can continue to lead Cause that was the biggest bummer was like I was leading dudes and and then like I wasn't and like that sucked you know, because I really enjoyed leadership and mentorship, like I had a blast doing that.
Speaker 3:Um, so, yeah, it was just like whatever you got to do to like get back to that and it's's like when you're in it every day, like I didn't want to wake up and be just like angry and mad and dejected and whatever like you.
Speaker 2:Just you got to get up and keep going like and that's the only I felt, like the only option I really had, you know hell yeah, did you at least have a, a support group or somebody within there that believed in you or found like you had, like you're still, like you know you go to you. Go to airborne school. You find somebody you can fucking laugh with and fucking make jokes with. Go to ranger school. You go to any selection process. You'll find people that you can lean on. Like it's not, it's not uncommon to find your, your I hate the term, it's fucking stupid battle buddy yeah just your friend.
Speaker 2:Were you able to find peers that you could lean on during this time?
Speaker 3:yeah, I did. Um, it was a little weird at first because like there were people in the battalion, like other lieutenants, who I had gone to west point airborne ranger school, eyeballs, like we had been together for like five years, you know. So you think you're friends. Um, go ahead and get in trouble and see, you know who's really your friend. Because, like, everybody wants to be the scout platoon leader, the mortar platoon leader, everybody wants, or a bunch of people wanted, to go to ranger regiment, right, you don't get those things if you piss the bc off, and one way to piss the bc off is to hang out with the Lieutenant who's in the dog house. So I uh realized I didn't have that many friends, uh, real friends, in the battalion who are going to be there with me like through thick and thin, and you don't expect anybody to um, feel sorry for you and and hang out with you, even if it's at their own expense. But when you find people that do, like those are the homies you know.
Speaker 3:So I, you know, had a friend um his name's Kizzy. He was. He actually got in trouble. He was like a year group or two ahead of me. He got in trouble and he had bounced back and he was. He had actually moved battalions as part of his you know road to redemption, um, and he, uh, part of his you know road to redemption um, and he, uh, he was there for me in a way that, like I don't know, it's just like an indescribable like did not have to do that, you know what I mean. Like helped me write my gomar rebuttal, um, made sure I wasn't like depressed you know like made me laugh.
Speaker 3:Like all this stuff like still checks up on me and that's really all you need Like somebody to text when, like you're, you're having a bad day and a bad situation and somebody does something to make it worse and you just want to vent like having that friend that's there. And then we ended up, you know, cause we were both platoon leaders in Bico I got pulled out of Bico and then he ended up going to Do and then I ended up going to deco, so like we kind of stayed together, which was great because, like I was really sad when he had to leave to go to like triple c, you know. But, um, yeah, like having that like key person. It doesn't have to be a ton of people. You know, my, my husband and I were dating at the time and like, um, it's really weird like personal note of like coming to brag as like a bald female with like peach fuzz. It's like you go out on the town on a Friday night to have fun and whether you're going to like Southern Pines or wherever, and you see a bald female walking into the bar. You're wondering, like did she go to ranger school? You know what I mean. Like just like automatically, and so that's what like every conversation became about.
Speaker 3:And I was like really having this great relationship with my boyfriend at the time and I was like, does he only like me? Because, like, he thinks I'm cool, you know? And then, looking back now, like we have a kid and like, but like, when I got in trouble, that was actually a really great thing for, like my own security and my relationship, cause I'm like, oh, he's just here. Like he's just here, he doesn't.
Speaker 3:And when I say like I was the same person the day before that, I was, you know, the day after I got in trouble, part of the reason why I felt so strongly about that was because of how he treated me, you know, and his support was just like completely unending, because he didn't see me as like an infantry, a female infantry officer with a ranger tab, like I was Jess, like I was his girlfriend, you know, so, like, so you know my, my friends at work, my boyfriend was huge. And and then my dad, you know the shadow governor, you know the old retired star major that you can call and be like, hey, I think this is bullshit. And he's gonna tell you, like, if it's bullshit or not. And, yeah, he, we talked on the phone every single day like whether I was having a good day or a bad day, like it was just checking in and um, and I just made it through like one step at a time. I started running like a lot.
Speaker 3:You know, no headphones, just raw like just casually raw dog, you know seven mile run just working it out, like I wouldn't even wear a watch, like I would just go until I was fucking tired and I would make my way back to the car and, like you know, and if that's what you got to do, to like get through it like that's what you got to do and you know, I probably had some unhealthy coping mechanisms mixed in there too, but like I didn't let it get out of control. Like you know, I didn't find myself like partying or drinking, to like get away from anything. Um, it was more just to like head toward having fun, you know, but yeah, which is good, like if you're relying on, on substances to to suppress something like yeah you should hit the trail and like confront it.
Speaker 2:You know so yeah, we, we do a lot of that in the 82nd uh yeah, it's just, it's a popular thing among kids, oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, if you're like a young hula, like it's so tempting to just like drink your face off every weekend, but like it's not, it's not the way and they'll figure it out, you know, hopefully, but that's the one thing that, like I always talk about in the culture that needs to change and the GWAT didn't do are starting to see that change because of, like the whole health and wellness space in social media.
Speaker 3:So like what's in your face. Like not the glamorization of um getting blackout, drunk at the barracks and getting in a fight every weekend. Like it's andrew huberman in your face. It's like all these other things in your face, Like dudes are, like do I need to get a red light mask?
Speaker 2:Like you know, Whose cold tub is this in the barracks?
Speaker 3:No, but yeah.
Speaker 3:So I think, like we are like, um, my husband on on his team, like they have noticed that, like, uh, they went TDY recently and and he texted me and he was like download the yuca app.
Speaker 3:And I was like, all right, you know, I downloaded it, I started scanning stuff in the pantry, I started throwing stuff away, you know, and like, what they were doing on tdy was like every time they would go get something to eat, it was like a competition like who's like snack hall could like get the best yuca score, and that's what these dudes are doing like out on cdy.
Speaker 3:And so, um, yeah, I think we are seeing a culture of um, like the whole wellness, not like can you right face and run really fast, like you know what I mean, but um, like are you healthier as a person, like spiritually, mentally, whatever, and I think the younger that dudes like get into that as they face issues going forward, uh, whatever inevitable conflict that some of these guys are going to find themselves in, like they're going to have habits that they built up as private. It's just because the whole culture around, like drinking and substances and stuff like that, I think, is really, really starting to change, and it's it's early on, like you're still gonna see dudes at the bears getting crazy on the weekend, but like yeah, I think that the tide is starting to turn and they're at least thinking about um, about that stuff oh, absolutely, I, I see it, I see the hope.
Speaker 2:uh, and you're absolutely right, it's the. Thankfully, alternative media and things like podcasts are coming around and put it in your face and the GWAT cock rock era is fading and going away by the by the wayside. It's just like it's not that cool to be the disgruntled vet and the broken guy. It's like, dude, go do some meditation, go talk to a therapist I love hearing those stories.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I absolutely love hearing those stories because, like, and the dudes like they rely on, like the previous generation having like beat their head against the same wall. It doesn't work, and so they find something else that works for them. Because, like, are we in like a big protracted conflict right now where dudes are seeing a bunch of combat, like no, but guess what is still an epidemic in the military suicide. So, like, we are losing kids left and right to suicides. Car accidents still happen, motorcycle accidents, training accidents like these stuff, these things like still happen to these guys.
Speaker 3:And you know, when you have a commander pull um, like when I was in I, I did some time in five, seven, three as like their air officer, the cab squadron, before it got like this band, the whole um shift in the force.
Speaker 3:But we had like a number of suicides in third brigade that year and you know, our commander would call us out and we would have a formation, we'd get in a school circle and we discuss, discuss it and he would always say, like do not turn to alcohol to fix it, like alcohol is not going to fix this to whatever degree.
Speaker 3:You knew this guy and whatever you're feeling, just know, like one thing that's definitely not going to work is alcohol. So, like leaders are like getting on that, like straight away, and then it's being reinforced through things like what you guys are saying on your podcast of like this is not going to work if you try and do it this way, cause we tried and did it this way and like we lost a lot of people doing that, you know, um, and so, yeah, I think, like what you guys do and the message that you're sending these young guys, they might not be having the same career experiences that you guys are having or that you guys had, um, but your message is ringing true, like nonetheless, we can see it, make a difference they're better equipped.
Speaker 2:I think, and the thing that I always want people to understand is don't dream of afghanistan and iraq, the g what era. Like it looks sexy, like the constant deployments, like we do a really shitty job of letting the younger generation, a new generation of service members, and understand that their fight in their day of glory is is right here, right now, in the present moment. What you're, what you're doing like. Be grateful for what you're doing, for your mission, for your training. It may not seem as sexy as you think now, but you're going to recall those times. You're going to have those fond memories of what you're doing. Trust me, your fight may be around the corner. So be grateful for what you're doing today, in this present moment.
Speaker 2:Don't dream of Afghanistan Place fucking sucks. So did Iraq Zero out of five stars. Wherever you go next, whatever you're going to face is going to be insanely tough and challenging. Be prepared and focus on your present moment, like be be happy that you're experiencing a new culture, a new shift, a new era. Um, your enemy is far greater, far more important to be prepared and trained for than what we faced hard. I wholeheartedly believe that. I think it it's the uh every once in a while when I talk to somebody that's going or wants to and trained for than what we face. I wholeheartedly believe that. I think it's the every once in a while when I talk to somebody that's going or wants to go to selection, it's like oh man, I missed out. You didn't miss out on anything, young man, you didn't miss out on anything. Your next great fight is around the corner, could be. I hope not. I hope you have a great career and you never have to go to combat I understand that.
Speaker 2:I understand the drive and passion for it. So just be prepared, just be willing to have a great adventure like that's. That's the thing that's hard to convey to somebody that's young, that wants, uh, that eager deployment and that next challenge, just enlist wait for it. If it comes, it comes.
Speaker 3:Be prepared for it right yeah yeah, because like nobody wants, like we don't want young infantrymen or young green berets who don't want to fight Right, like that's not good, like we want them to be super aggressive and really want to go fight leader is how do you keep those dudes motivated, knowing that at least in your short time while you're there, that's appointments not coming, like being in the 82nd and you're like sitting on the wall on the immediate response force, so you're always like ready for anything. And like you know, we did like get spun up for afghanistan and then first brigade went and then russia was about to invade ukraine. So we go to Poland, you know so, like we did get to do some stuff. So like anybody listening that's thinking about um enlisting, like do it and go to the 82nd because like if you're going to go anywhere, it's with those guys, and then um, and then if you want to be a Green Beret, like Green Berets are working all the time. It might not be the work that you think it is, but like if you read about what Green Berets are actually supposed to do, that is still very much going on, you know. So like the work is out there.
Speaker 3:But like how do you keep young, aggressive men motivated when you know the deployment's not coming? And so I looked at every single NCO and every single private as somebody star major, so I'm only in your life. We were on a crash course and I'm in your life for like 24 months max and then I'm out. So, like, did I prepare some future kids star major, to be the leader that they need, that I do everything that I could to prepare him? And if the answer was yes, that I do everything that I could to prepare him. And if the answer was yes which I think it was I can get out of the army after you know, like 11 years total, but only five years of being an infantryman I can get out with no deployment patch or whatever, and it's a. It sucks. You know, like I wish I had a cooler story, but like I did my job, like I did exactly what was asked of me. I trained my dudes hard, I grew as a leader and I helped develop them.
Speaker 3:And like, if you're a leader that's getting out and you're wondering if you're, if you did enough, like, just take a look through your DMS and your text messages and look at all the dudes that still text you when, when something happens in their life and they text you. They're excited, they're like, oh my gosh, like blah, blah, blah, this happened, or I got this job or whatever, like that is how you know that you did a good job. You know, and I don't think that like there's signs all over the place that you did what your guys needed you to do, but maybe we're not listening. You know what I mean, and so it can seem like you were just like a breeze that blew past somebody, and for some people I was a breeze. I blew past them.
Speaker 3:I didn't really make a difference in their life, like, or they fucking hated me, like, cause there was that too. You know what I mean. Everybody's not going to like you, the dudes in my platoon that I was like that's a good dude, that's a good NCO, like. If those dudes are still talking to you like you did fine, like don't worry about it.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, absolutely. And I want to pause and let you know, like you said, something that I think a lot of our veterans feel like, oh, I didn't do anything special. And I'm like pause and reflect on your journey. If you, if you're about to retire or you're about to hang it up, just give yourself like five minutes of like reflection on this amazing journey you've been on. And like, dude, you were a linguist.
Speaker 2:Then you got a shot at going to West Point, which I know we shit on officers in West Point, but that is an American institution, american military leadership institution. That's like a very small percentage of people get to go there. You got to do that. You went to ranger school as one of the first females to be allowed to go to that school, the, the premier leadership school, knock that out. Then you get to go to the 82nd airborne division, a historic division. Like I'm not, like I I'm not joking, I don't have. I'm a first-generation American. I don't anchor myself in this country with thoughts and imaginations of like, oh, what do it's like to have lineage? I have lineage because I served in that unit. I can look back and be like, hey, I might not have grandparents that served, but I served in a historic unit.
Speaker 3:You knock all that out.
Speaker 2:That is amazing, and you got to be an infantry leader. Not a lot of people get to do that. So when you look back on your career, by no means ever tell yourself that you didn't get to do anything great, because you got to do some amazing shit. It might not be highlighted in some fucking boner movie or some influencer real recap, but you got to do some amazing shit and that, my friend, is something to be extremely proud of. You gotta give yourself back.
Speaker 3:I feel super fortunate, you know, and it feels like, uh, I guess like getting into some of the new stuff, because it feels like a past life where I'm at now and I only got out like. I mean, my terminal leave ended two days ago, you know. So I'm not like it's still fresh. It hasn't hit you, yeah yeah, like I went and opened up a storage unit and they were like, are you active military? And I was like, yeah, no shit. First time ever you know I've never been asked that out of the military.
Speaker 3:So but yeah, like um, I feel super fortunate. But it feels like a past life because, um, I mean, I kind of knew like when I was in the heavy weapons platoon role I would sit down for like the counseling with my commander, like after big training events every quarter, like whatever. And he, he was an in-your-face leader, um, and he still is, and so he would ask like very personal questions and he would like make it uncomfortable, like you weren't just going to sit down and be like, oh, good job at gunnery, like see you later. You know what I mean. Like you were going to get into it, um. And so I just knew every time I'm like, oh, here we go, and so we start getting into, kind of some of my personal goals and I'm like I think I want to start a family, but I have no idea how to do that as an infantry officer.
Speaker 3:You know there was there's no pathway for officers. I think it's easier because, like you can do a broadening assignment where you go like teach ROTC, you go to grad school, you do whatever. So like you can find time to stop who I really feel bad for, and it's their choice. Like these girls are fine, but, like the infantry NCOs, there is no pathway to kind of pull them out. Put them on staff, let them, you know, be pregnant, have their baby recover, put them in and then get them their KD and get them back on timeline. Like there's not, that structure doesn't exist and, like I've seen it, cause marital problems, um with with female infantrymen, like I've seen it, you know, and we can say like, oh well, if your husband doesn't support blah blah, blah, then maybe you should, like we can make comments on their marriage, but like it's none of our fucking business and like we should be supporting, you know, uh, making more Americans you know, so like yeah
Speaker 3:but right now, like the army's kind of still figuring that out, and a lot of these girls, like it's not laid out because these aren't the type of girls that are going to ask for anything. Um, despite like what we see portrayed on like social media and stuff like that, the girls on the line, like the girls on the line are happier about the gender neutral pt standards like than anybody, cause, like we're tired of fucking talking about it. You know what I mean, because, like you don't get like a female live fire, like you're still out there like doing the thing, and then the subject of PT comes up and then it's like all this drama, even though, like, your raw scores are just where your peers are, but like so these girls are not putting their hand up asking for help. You know what I mean. And so, um, and when I was talking to my commander about it, he was like the second, you feel like you want to start a family. You should start a family.
Speaker 3:Like the army is going to figure out like how to retain you and where to put you. Um, let the army figure. That's the army's problem because, like your talent, and it is the army's job to keep you. Um, so like do you know whatever? And I still like was unsure about it, kept putting it off, putting it off and like, um, I was sitting in poland like we didn't have like tents or anything like that when we first got there. We were just like in the woods. So we're like around a fire and I'm sitting with my one of my old west point classmates who was like an armor officer, and I'm like I'm getting pregnant as soon as I fucking get back, like you know, like this is so stupid.
Speaker 3:Like what the fuck are we doing here, you know, because it was obvious like we weren't going to war. So I was like can I go home? Like you know what I mean? Um, but like yeah, and then we get back and I go to jump master school and I'm having fun doing jump master, so I put it off a little longer and then we get wrapped up into JRTC. So then I'm sitting next to the same girl at JRTC, you know, in the middle of the night and I'm like I'm getting pregnant as soon as we fucking get back. So I actually finally did.
Speaker 3:But one thing I did do was that before we, you know, started having our family, I found a job up on division staff. So basically what I did was removed myself from this role where I had to be deployable. I didn't want to take up a spot Like I didn't want to put it on somebody else to move me. But then they feel bad for moving me and whatever, I removed myself, went up to division staff, got a job that you don't deploy. So I was the deputy immediate response force coordinator. So basically it was me and a major and we're still good friends to this day. But if there was like a deployment readiness exercise or somebody had to deploy somewhere. Basically we were the liaisons between, like, brigade staff and division staff, like is this s? Is this a g1 problem or a g4 problem? And we would get them and help them hit their validation gates and stuff like that. So I got myself in that job, which was the perfect spot to be when you're pregnant, because the irs deputy is not deploying, because you got to outload everybody.
Speaker 3:So, um, so like, once I got there, I was like I knew I was gonna get out, wanted to start the family, um, and my husband and I had decided, like somebody's getting out, if we're starting a family, like this is not gonna be sustainable and basically, like this, I think the whole like balance thing I'm not gonna call it, call it bullshit.
Speaker 3:It's bullshit for me. Like I am not like mature enough or whatever to achieve that, like because of that, like sled dog mentality, like if I'm in the army, I am going to do that, and like if I'm a mom, I'm going to do that. And so, like I knew balance for me was not going to be like attainable, and so at first we talked about like both getting out and him going back to school and maybe he could, you know, have the baby at home and be in school and then I could work or whatever. And it just kind of shook out, like he was like I don't hate the army really, so like I got a good thing going here, like I'll hang out, you know, and so then, you know, I decided that I was going to be the one to get out and then we were going to be able to raise our family the way we wanted, which was with one of us at home. Um, you know, and we want to homeschool and we'll see how long we do that.
Speaker 3:It'll probably depend a lot on, like sports, you know, if we homeschool all the way through or put them in a program for um sports, but like, but yeah, so it was just like you know, we're going to do it the way we want to do it and we'll wait until we're able to do it that way, because I didn't want to outsource it, like I feel like it's too important right now Because, like I grew up in the 90s where you could, just you could go outside and play, you could. It was very chill, like you watched a little bit of TV at night. But you know, I wasn't, I was like a teenager the first time I, like, used the internet, you know.
Speaker 3:So it was just like it wasn't like this huge thing and there's so much shit now like competing for your child's focus and attention and their brain, so it's like I feel like I need a little bit more time to make sure that those values are solid before, you know, he goes out into the world, cause I can't protect him from everything forever, but he just needs to have those four values like fully installed before he goes out and faces.
Speaker 3:You know what's going to be a lot of shit like competing for his little like monkey brain to get his attention all the time. So you know, we knew that like we were kind of in a different situation than our parents were, like both my parents worked. I went to daycare like I was fine. You know what I mean and I don't fault anybody who does it that way. It was just not going to be the way for us. And so, yeah, for us, um, and so yeah, like hung up the the military hat, you know, and I was ready to like staff uh is not glamorous and it's most of what officers do.
Speaker 2:Um, absolutely it sucks.
Speaker 2:The best years of your entire career go by so fast and it breaks my heart when you get a good officer, like man they, you just want them to go to the higher selection again in the sf world. As soon as you get a really good officer that is passionate, leads from the front and is a true dedicated fucking leader, just like just leave this place is not for you. Go to the next echelon, go to the next great selection, succeed and never look back, never look back. And then you find out that those guys also have to do staff time up there.
Speaker 3:So it's like fuck, I lied to you yeah, dude, like you don't need a freaking major clear in a corner, like that is a, that is a gross race of uh resources. But yeah, I mean like and that's just like, you know, that's just the reality. Like I kind of caught on to it at west point, like we would have generals like come talk to us and stuff, talk to the graduating class, whatever, and they would be like you're about to enter the best time of your career. Being a platoon leader was the best time of my career and I was sitting there and I was like bro, you've been in for 33 years. You're telling me the first 36 months was the highlight. Like oh no.
Speaker 2:I changed my mind.
Speaker 3:I immediately changed my mind and like the glory of like small unit leadership as an officer. To be completely frank, is that, like those, small units don't need an officer to be successful. Like an ODA can function without a captain, a platoon can function without a Lieutenant, but but group cannot function without officers who have never led and nobody wants a company commander who was never a platoon leader.
Speaker 3:Like nobody wants that. You know what I mean. So, yeah, you know it's easy to sit back and say like, oh, being a platoon leader is like the best. Like, yeah, dude, because like it's not that hard. You know, like that's not the shitty thing, that's the fun thing, where, like you've got five NCOs to catch you when you like inevitably make all these mistakes and like the whole. You know it was frustrating as an author, like when other officers would brag like oh, I've never done staff time and I'm like cool, but like what is it you say you do here? You know what I mean. Because like it doesn't take like dick winners to be able to walk around in the woods at night. You know our tactics are easy on purpose.
Speaker 3:The majority of the popular, the student population in ranger school is iBullock lieutenants and and young dudes from bat. You know what I mean. So like if you tell me like oh, I'm more of a tactical leader, like I'm not super impressed, like you know, like that's not how we run organizations, that's not how we sustain a force, like logistics straight up makes a difference in wartime. And like, if you want to be, if you want to clear corners for a living, you want to kick doors for a living. Don't be an officer like you know what I mean like you don't get this super high paycheck and then perform at the level of a private and everybody's gonna clap for you like no dude, like get your ass in there and fucking row like the car's not gonna ride itself, you know. And then the mentorship thing is like you know, you get a lot of leadership training as an officer, so you bring that to. But like your NCOs have that like they know how to lead, you know.
Speaker 3:So like what you offer them is planning and resourcing, training, training management and like that's where units are struggling right now, because a lot of the majors and lieutenant colonels who are in charge of the training calendar at echelon, what were they doing when they were, you know, young lieutenants and captains? Like they were at war, like a very different workup, very different cycle to you know how, at least in the 80 seconds, the irf cycles look now. And so when you see these training calendars that are just fucking wall to wall craziness and you're like did a monkey write this? Like who did this? And it's like, no, did a monkey write this Like who did this? And it's like no, like a dude who never had to manage training at a small level is now trying to do it for the division and the shit is a little complicated, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So like I think, as kind of the newer generation of officers come up like hopefully we will see, like a stabilization of training management starts to happen. Like it's a I mean, it was a problem in the 82nd it's a. It's a problem in group. Like it's an issue.
Speaker 2:It really is an issue everywhere.
Speaker 3:Um, and so, like you know, we it's so easy to shit on staff, but like it's so important, like if you're wondering like why am I never allowed to go home on leave? You know, why did I work 96 hours this week? You know, and that's why it's like a lot of times it has to do with like those not glamorous jobs on staff and like platoons don't need lieutenants to run, but battalions can't function without lieutenants. Like you need them there. And so like I think, like I think you know kind of the if you don't want to do staff time and that's not your thing, like please don't be an officer, because you're going to just be a net drain on your organization, you know yeah, it's part of it comes.
Speaker 2:It comes with territory you gotta. You gotta understand, embrace the greatness and and be good at the job or just get out, be done, be happy with your decision, to just be like hey, I'm just gonna do this, I'm gonna walk away. But if you stay in, it's like and you're miserable and you're constantly shitting about it's like, why are you here? Why are you here, dog like?
Speaker 2:oh yeah either either fall in love with it and be really good at it and make a positive impact and change and be that leader that people look like man, that dude's kicking ass like we can see, like he's making an impact down there. He's changing the culture like I've. I've seen the guys that get doom and gloom and it's like, hey, man, like at the end of the day you could have just been a green beret, could have been an enlisted dude, could have been an 18 delta. You chose the 18 alpha path path, so embrace it yeah, yeah exactly my con ops, damn it yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. Help me close out this ammo document, for the love of god. Yeah, like it just. It just is what it is and I think like part of it's so easy, um, and I'm sure in your world you know you do the same thing. It's's just to a uh, officer of a different rank, but it is so easy to shit on lieutenants.
Speaker 3:Like you know what I mean. Like it's a, it just writes itself sometimes. But like those lieutenants who like do a lot of staff time, like those are like little gems and we need to hold onto them. Like, if they do a lot of staff time, they were a pretty good pl and they actually did pretty well on staff and they just like swallowed that freaking staff time and took it like a champ and like fucking protect that guy at all costs too, because like that's gonna be your s3 one day, you know. And if all we do is like I've seen it, you know, on staff where like the major is just like running his lieutenants into the ground, not mentoring. Like you know ifutenants on staff, like fucking counsel that kid, you know, like help them out, dude, because like just like I looked at privates as somebody's star major one day, like that lieutenant is somebody's commander one day and they might be a battalion commander when we're like at war with China. So like stop fucking around. You know what I mean. And like develop this leader.
Speaker 2:Like yes, yes.
Speaker 3:Instead of just like shitting on him because you're an angry major and you're going to kick a lieutenant. You know what I mean. Like it's just like. It's just so stupid because, like we should be saying battalion every single day. It's not a platoon leader. Platoon leader is focused on like 40 guys who's in charge of, you know, the platoon live fire that every single person in the battalion is going to be participating in.
Speaker 3:It's that that lieutenant oic you know what I mean who's planning and resourcing the whole thing, and he's got his guardrails. The battalion commander and the major come in and they, you know, know, get the briefs and whatever, but like he's driving the fucking train. So like, you know what I mean Like that deserves it's not glamorous, but like maybe we could do a better job of like just appreciating those guys for like the work that they do, you know, and and then we retain that talent and you know we don't have people that have their ass on their shoulders because they're on staff time. Like no, no, this is what you signed up for. Maybe West Point needs to do a better job of like getting you ready to be on staff Because they show you like band of brothers and shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's all they show. They glorify, they amplify and they make you romanticize just one aspect of the job. Make you romanticize just one aspect of the job. But in reality, if you treat it like the entire thing is important that you like, hey man, you're, you're going to really love this one aspect of your job.
Speaker 2:But what's going to make you that great leader is being able to fall in love with all the stuff that's traditionally been highlighted as ugly. But this is what's going to make you just a great asset at the battalion brigade level. And then when you go and you take that long walk and you go and you take that, that, uh, that selection, you go become a green beret, guess what? You're going to be able to take all those skills and then make yourself an even better leader. So, like, don't, don't shit on it, embrace it, embrace all aspects of it. And at the end of the day, like you said, it it's we don't give, you know that round of applause to golf clap, to the guy that's staying till 8 pm Making sure that that live fire range is going to go off without a hitch. It takes a lot being to make those exercises function flawlessly, or near flawlessly in a conventional army. In the world of regular infantrymen like that's takes a lot fucking. Give those guys a pat on the back, man.
Speaker 3:Bring them a monster or two or at least just like don't be an asshole, you know like, just at a minimum like be nice dude, you know what I mean. Like buddy's going through. He hasn't been to the grocery store in three weeks. He wants a dog. He can't have one because he's working for you.
Speaker 2:You know like his apartment's still just a bunch of duffel bags, yeah yeah, he has no furniture, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:But he's in there rolling for you every day, you know. But yeah, it's, it's pretty interesting and it's interesting to see, like on the the soft side, like how similar these issues are um like hearing what my husband's going through at work with the whole like training, resourcing, training, management, stuff like that. I'm like dude, been there, like I remember that like oh, the asp kicked you back again you know.
Speaker 3:So it's like there's like so many similarities and so like. If you're, if you can't handle like being on, if you can't be a good staff officer in the 82nd, like CAG probably doesn't want you. You know what I mean like they want people that are going to be excellent, no matter where they are. There is no such thing as like a tactical versus an admin leader like you're either yeah a leader or you're not.
Speaker 3:Like I don't care again. Like I don't care if you can walk in the woods at night, like is your dude's jump pay fucked up? You know what I mean. Like cause that's what's impressive, that's what you're getting paid for, you know. And so like yeah, I've never, I've never really like bought into that whole thing.
Speaker 3:Um, and I did enough staff time to be able to say, like I know that it's important and I know, like the teams that you build on staff and like when I was after my PL time, when I went back up to staff waiting to get out, like talking to young lieutenants, like there is still leadership and mentorship opportunity all over the place on staff. You know what I mean. Like that was like one of my favorite things. Like I can I can't really relate to like an infantry private as well as I can relate to like a Lieutenant who just came here from ranger school like has no idea what's going on and is like about to take a platoon. Like that I can talk to you about. Like being a grenadier. It's like, well, you know, I know my way around it, you know I've seen and touched a 320 320, that's what we call these days yeah, yeah like you know, so it's like I can't really relate as well as like their.
Speaker 3:Their ncos are gonna know them like much better than I can yeah like mentoring other um other officers on staff is like hugely important and it's important for retention. And I say that as somebody who like got out and you know commanders at echelon were trying to like talk me out of getting out, you know, but like I knew I was ready and it wasn't just because, like I hate the army, so I'm getting out Like that's not it, it was just my life. I hate the army, so I'm getting out like that's not it, it was just my life.
Speaker 3:It was time for me to, to reprioritize, you know, to do the things that I want to do. I spent an entire decade, my twenties. I gave it to the United States. I stood on a wall for 10 years. You didn't really need me for anything. Crazy, it is what it is.
Speaker 1:I'm not bitter, I'm not angry, you know like yeah but what is the idea?
Speaker 3:I can forgive it, you know whatever what is the idea for?
Speaker 2:uh, for being an entrepreneur and diving into the space of, you know, wanting to create something. Where did that come from?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, um, I knew from the expensive amount of staff time that I did, I would often be sitting there and being like I bet if I were 40% as hard for myself as I did for this guy like whoever my boss was, whether I liked him or not, you know I would bust.
Speaker 3:But like, if I work 40 it's hard for myself I could probably achieve something pretty great. And, um, the first idea that I had for starting a business I had built a camper van, like I took like a pro master and like outfitted it out so we had like a little camper to cruise around in. And I was like, oh, maybe I can do that, like as a business, you know. And then I'm like pretty data driven and a lot of the time I spent on staff was like processing data in a way that like commanders can understand and make decisions off of. So I did that for myself and I crunched those numbers, brother, and it was not gonna work like. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna start with an $85,000 sprinter and then I'm gonna, you know, but I'm gonna bootstrap the whole thing and not go into debt like okay, like probably not, you know.
Speaker 3:So, luckily, yeah I had done enough analysis, like in the beginning, to be like, well, that's not gonna work and it was something that I was really excited about in the process. So it's a bit like deflating to be like man, this thing that I thought I was really passionate about and like wanted to do, like probably not gonna be able to do it. So then I was just like you know what You're not getting out of the army to be a business owner. You're getting out of the army to be a mom and like God has a plan, like things are going to work out. But like focus on this promise that you made your husband. You know, cause that's what it was Like. I promised him that like I was going to get out of the army and raise our sons the way I wanted. So, even with the business that I have now, I don't let it get to a point until I'm ready to move to the next step, cause I'm not going to take away from our son. You know, like I can't, because that breaks my promise to him. It's not what we were trying to do originally, you know, um, and so I I'm growing it slowly, but the handler's palo idea specifically like it.
Speaker 3:We bought a quarter cow from a friend who's got a little, uh, cattle operation in Cameron. Um, he was like, do you want the beef fat to like make tallow out of? And I was like, oh yeah, sure, like I've heard of cooking tallow, whatever. You know we eat a lot of steak. So I was like, yeah, I'll take it. And so I start looking up how to render tallow down and how to make cooking tallow. And then, you know, your phone just goes crazy after you Google something like enough time. You know your phone just goes crazy after you Google something like enough times. And so I start to see like, oh my God, like you can make so much stuff out of this.
Speaker 3:And we cared a lot about what was going in our body. We had not given a lot of thought to like what goes on our body, but when we had a baby, uh, we started thinking about that. So, um, I would look on the ingredients labels of stuff of lotion and body wash and stuff. And I would look on the ingredients labels of stuff of lotion and body wash and stuff and I'm like, why is there? Why is there blue and yellow dye in this? Like I don't. You know what I mean. So I was having trouble finding like products that I trusted and I should have cared about myself like that the whole time, but it wasn't until I had a son that I started to care, and so when I saw that you could make like personal care products out of tallow, I was like, oh shit, like I'll give it a shot. And uh, a little goes a long way. You can make a lot of products with like 5 to 15 pounds of beef fat, and so I had like a bajillion jars of tallow moisturizer.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:I was like, oh no, like I made too much, um. So I was like, well, you know, I'll uh give it to some friends and family and they loved it. And I was like I'll put it on facebook marketplace, you know. And so I threw it up on there and then, like people were beating the door down because they were like we have been looking for local products, because we don't trust anything that's out there, and like, if you're making this stuff locally, because, like the customers who want tallow products, natural soaps, whatever, you can find that stuff on amazon, unfortunately, like our soaps are on amazon but like unfortunately, amazon has been so overrun by, like companies from a certain country who maybe have some shady business practices from china your homemade brands from america are on page like 11 11 of the fucking search results and they don't trust that stuff and it's bad.
Speaker 3:it's not only bad for like, just like, having shitty products on amazon sucks, but it's bad for small brands to actually take the time to get onto Amazon because now that trust is already broken, so that's one less avenue that small business owners have to reach people. So it's just a bummer, but people love to buy that stuff locally and so I threw up a little website and started doing little farmers markets and stuff like that and it just like it just took off. Like I had no idea that people were so interested in this, particularly like I'm in a military community at Bragg and we're exposed to like so much bullshit in the military, you'd almost think that like people don't even care anymore. And that's not. That couldn't be further from the truth, because we're so exposed to stuff that we can't control.
Speaker 3:A lot of dudes like we were talking about with the alcohol thing like they're starting to take ownership, where they can, of their own wellness and so you know, you see a lot of dudes. A lot of military families are buying meat from farmers down here. They have chickens in their backyard. You know what I mean. Like if and if you register your chickens as emotional support animals, the hoa in the city, in the county, can't come for you. I swear to god.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, super easy jotting that down I know, yeah, there's nothing shout out to sunny egg co, I might get some of your chicken sent my way exactly so, like.
Speaker 3:So people are figuring out, kind of one, taking control of, like, what they're taking into their body, what they're putting onto their body, which I think is great because it's supporting local farmers, it's strengthening our food supply system, because if there's not a market for it, like the, the food supply system isn't going to be strong. All of a sudden, when a problem happens, you know, like your, your guest that was on that was talking about all the agriculture, that was a great episode. And like he's right, like there's a huge problem, but like I'm not a wait on the government to fix it, kind of gal like I was, and like I know how long that shit takes and it's a mess, and so, like you know, so I like vote with your dollar, like that's what's gonna matter to corporations, but like you could not buy something from tyson meats and they probably won't notice. But you go purchase a whole cow from a farmer, like a local farmer, and that guy's going to notice, his family's going to notice. You know, like that amount of money that you invested in yourself and in that local farm is going to be felt, whereas your business leaving this multinational corporation, they're never going to know. And so, yeah, like.
Speaker 3:So there was just this hidden market of people who felt like I did, moms, who felt like I did, soldiers, who felt like I did and and I just didn't know it was there and I felt like I stumbled on it, you know, and it's just, it's been fantastic, like the support that we have from people in this community and like, increasingly, in the military community, like I feel like I should have tapped into that market and let them know I was out here sooner, you know, because I don't think people are talking to them in like the natural care space, like I don't think people are talking to soldiers right now and like they should be, because those are the guys that need it. You know, like every, even if you're not like buying meat from a farmer, like it doesn't have to be all or nothing, it took me a while to stop using like the cleaning products that I really, really love. You know it was a hard pill to swallow to fill a spray bottle up with vinegar and clean my kitchen with that Like dude. I'm not going to say I did it right away because I didn't.
Speaker 3:It took me a while to get there, but I got there and so it was just kind of like a one thing at a time and like anything that you can do to eliminate toxins or things that you don't understand from your life, like that's a good thing, you know, and people will try to gaslight you, like oh uh, everything's a chemical, like at its core, and just because you can't read it doesn't mean it's bad for you. And I'm like okay, motherfucker, like you know, like don't talk to me like I'm an idiot, like you know, like I'm not an idiot and and these people aren't here out here aren't idiots. Like if it came from a real thing, you would be putting that real thing on your label, but but but you're making it in a lab, you know. And so like I don't make my stuff in a lab, I make my stuff like right in my kitchen and like it keeps me at home with my baby and I can keep fulfilling that promise I had to.
Speaker 3:My husband gets us outside at farmer's markets, like I truly love it, um, and I think not wanting to get rich off of tallow stuff keeps it in like a healthy, a healthy thing. You know, like I'm not gonna have some MBA come in and tell me how to scale my business and like start compromising my values Because, like we talked about, like integrity is super important to me and like I I know how I'm making my stuff. And if I were to compromise, like I don't know that, I could stand in front of a customer and be like here's this thing that you're going to put on your child. You know, like, exactly, you got to take that stuff really seriously so.
Speaker 2:Jess, I can't. I can't tell you how much I'm in the same boat, man. We're new parents as well. Congratulations, thank you, man, that we're new parents as well, and congratulations, thank you.
Speaker 2:Before we even, like started our journey with being parents, my wife was super like. I have endocrine issues and my wife was my wife's. The same same mentality, hard-hitting, like once you find something's wrong with your, with the way your body's operating. It was a like, okay, what else can, what's, what else is a disruptor of your hormones and your endocrine system? And we just changed everything from air purifiers to friggin everything that we have around, same thing cleaning agents in the house. But the moment we found out we're having a little izzy.
Speaker 2:It was like, okay, like we need to drastically look at what we put on our bodies, what we put in our food, and same thing that that pulling that little string will just take you down a deep web of like looking at all the shit that he put in your, in your pharmaceuticals, and the things that you put in the cleaning agents and what you put in your. You know we always thought like, oh, these things that make it smell good in your soap is perfect, it's great stuff. No, it's fucking harmful for you. To make it smell good and your soap is perfect, it's great stuff. No, it's fucking harmful for you. So your mission with your tallow products is absolutely something that I I can look at and say like, dude, we need to support this and, um, where can people get your products?
Speaker 3:yeah, so, like I said, our soaps and deodorants and shampoo bars are on amazon. So if you got some prime points built up or something, I'm not gonna judge you you you can go buy them off Amazon, but our full line of product is available at handlerstallocom.
Speaker 2:Perfect. And where can people connect with you on social media?
Speaker 3:Handler's Trying Hard is our Instagram, and every once in a while I'll throw something up on the TikTok, but Instagram's where it's at.
Speaker 2:Heck. Yeah, jess, thank you so much for joining us today. I greatly appreciate you being vulnerable enough to share your complete story. Man, it's something that everybody has a personal opinion, but, like I said earlier, get outside of your beliefs and just look at the human factor. Like, if a person has a dream and they're willing to do the job, and they can do the job, and they've gotten the fucking ranger tab and they've gotten the that they the proven record of doing it. Like, just be happy for a human being that's out there chasing their dreams. And your, your story is just that, like somebody, that's those wanting to do this great big thing and somehow it all lined up. And, man, I am so grateful for you sharing that story and even more grateful that you're willing to go out there and then try again with the entrepreneurial endeavor, which I know is not easy.
Speaker 3:No, it's so scary yeah.
Speaker 2:But thank you so much for being here To everybody tuning in. Thank you, guys. I'm not going to keep you longer, but please go to the episode description, Click on those links, Buy a bar of soap or two and when you're done, go to Spotify or YouTube. Leave us a comment and a like and a subscribe. I'd greatly appreciate it. It is my mission to bring you great individuals like Jess and help you, you know, Appreciate it. It is my mission to bring you great individuals like Jess and help you, you know, understand that the human spirit can go through some hard, challenging things and still make it out alive and make it out, especially after being an 82nd and getting in trouble for memes.
Speaker 3:That's a yeah you can't do it with DDI, so I got to go Mark.
Speaker 1:So like I wasn't, it was memes that brought her down folks.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. We'll see you all next time. Until then, take care. Thanks for tuning in and don't forget to like, follow, share, subscribe and review us on your favorite podcast platform. If you want to support us, head on over to buymeacoffeecom forward slash SecHawk podcast and buy us a coffee. Connect with us on Instagram X or TikTok and share your thoughts or questions about today's episode. You can also visit securityhawkcom for exclusive content, resources and updates. And remember we get through this together. If you're still listening, the episode's over. Yeah, there's no more Tune in tomorrow or next week.
