Security Halt!
Welcome to Security Halt! Podcast, the show dedicated to Veterans, Active Duty Service Members, and First Responders. Hosted by retired Green Beret Deny Caballero, this podcast dives deep into the stories of resilience, triumph, and the unique challenges faced by those who serve.
Through powerful interviews and candid discussions, Security Halt! Podcast highlights vital resources, celebrates success stories, and offers actionable tools to navigate mental health, career transitions, and personal growth.
Join us as we stand shoulder-to-shoulder, proving that even after the mission changes, the call to serve and thrive never ends.
Security Halt!
From Special Ops to Archery: How Jason McCoy Helps Veterans Overcome PTSD
What happens when a Special Operations veteran finds healing through archery? In this powerful episode of Security Halt!, we sit down with Jason McCoy, a former Air Force Security Forces and Office of Special Investigations (OSI) counterintelligence professional, to explore his incredible journey from military service to founding ENDEX Archery—a nonprofit dedicated to helping veterans and first responders combat PTSD through the power of archery.
🔥 Inside This Episode:
✅ Jason’s military journey, from security forces to special operations
✅ The hidden struggles of combat deployments and transitioning to civilian life
✅ How archery became a life-changing tool for mental health and PTSD recovery
✅ The mission of ENDEX Archery to build a wellness center for veterans
✅ The importance of community support and mental health awareness in the veteran space
💪 Whether you’re a veteran, active duty, or someone who supports our military community, this episode is packed with powerful insights, inspiration, and real solutions for mental health and post-service transition.
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Jason McCoy and Endex Archery
02:46 Jason's Military Journey: From Dreams to Reality
06:04 The Shift to Air Force: A Change in Direction
08:56 Experiences in Security Forces: The Reality of the Job
11:59 Deployment Insights: Working with JSOC and Special Operations
15:02 Transition to OSI: Counterintelligence and New Opportunities
22:23 Counter Threat Operations and Airfield Security
29:11 The Aftermath of Combat and Mental Health Awareness
33:02 Transitioning from Military to Civilian Life
41:03 Founding INDEX Archery: A New Path for Healing
46:41 Building a Community for Veterans and First Responders
Instagram: @securityhalt
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LinkedIn: Deny Caballero
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LinkedIn: Jason McCoy
Instagram: endexarchery
https://www.instagram.com/endexarchery/
Facebook: ENDEX Archery
https://www.facebook.com/ENDEXarchery410
Website:endexarchery
Produced by Security Halt Media
Security Odd Podcast. Let's go the only podcast that's purpose-built from the ground up to support you Not just you, but the wider audience, everybody. Authentic, impactful and insightful conversations that serve a purpose to help you. And the quality has gone up. It's decent. It's hosted by me, danny Caballero. It's DC. It's hosted by me, denny Caballero, jason McCoy. Welcome. How you doing, man?
Speaker 2:Doing good man. I appreciate being here.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I love highlighting nonprofits, anybody doing great things for our veterans and offering a different approach to healing, and I saw you guys on Instagram and I'm like you need to bring these guys on. I need to hear your story, jason.
Speaker 2:I need to hear how you came up with index archery yeah, um, I'll try to keep it short and sweet, uh, but it is no this is not the place for short and sweet.
Speaker 1:I want fucking. Let's start off with how you found yourself in the military. Perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so uh grew up in South Louisiana, just South of Baton Rouge. I couldn't tell, um, yeah, the the military kind of stripped the accent away, especially if you're in basic. I got made fun of a lot, um, but yeah, I grew up in South Louisiana. Um, both of my grandfathers were military veterans. Um, my dad was career law enforcement. He did 27 years, uh, broke his back riding horses and wasn't able to join the military but always wanted to. Uh, but anyway, just kind of. You know that kind of upbringing definitely.
Speaker 2:Uh, I grew up in the swamps man and I like to tell people I fell for the government's long-term recruitment strategy. You know I grew up, I was born in strategy. You know I grew up I was born in the eighties, um, you know, grew up in the nineties and and movies like Top Gun and, um, you know video games, all that stuff. So I knew from a very early age that I wanted to join the military. Um, I think I went to. My first air show is the bell chase, just outside of New Orleans. Bell chase Naval air station has an air show every year. Bell chase, just outside of new orleans. Bell chase naval air station has an air show every year and I got to see the blue angels fly for the first time at like six and I said that's what I'm gonna do and that kind of evolved over time.
Speaker 2:Uh, my grandfather I, you know, was blessed to be able to grow up right next to one set of grandparents and, uh, so I had a really close, close relationship with them. He was a navy. He kind of talked me out of the Navy. So then I started looking towards the Marine Corps. You know I went through scouting, using that as a tool to prep for the military, because as a kid you're told you know, if you're an Eagle Scout you can join some, depending on the branch. You can join as an E2 or an E3. So that spoke to me In high school. I joined my high school, had a Navy junior ROTC program, so again signed up for that, did that for four years and one of my mentors there was a retired master guns from the Marine Corps top daily and I was set on joining the Marine Corps. I mean, all the way up until I left for Air Force basic training I still had a Marine Corps flag hanging in my room.
Speaker 1:That's a hell of a left turn man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what ultimately got me was, you know and I'm a big believer that everything happens for a reason right, when you hear my story, it couldn't have happened any other way, right? So I was dead set on joining Marines. A couple of my buddies that were a year ahead of me in high school they did join Marines and I was. I was prepping to follow them and I was still 17 when I signed my enlistment contract. So my dad being in law enforcement, you know he worked with I'd probably say 80 percent of the guys on his ship were all veterans and, um, this was I joined in 2007. So a lot of those guys were either desert storm or GWAT veterans from early Iraq, early Afghanistan, that sort of thing. And all the Marines that he worked with. They were typical Marines, right, they're a little unhinged. You know a lot of he worked with a lot of 0311s and some, some MPs and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But he came to me one day and he was like look, he's like, you know I've been talking with all the guys at work. And he's like, if you really want to join the Marine Corps, you know me and your mom will support that and sign your contract. But he's like I'd really like you to take a look at the Air Force. You know, everyone that he worked with told him like hey, if it were, I'd have him join the Air Force. Better quality of life, better schooling, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I kind of threw my nose up to it because I had the same impression of the Air Force just from being around other veterans. You know the Air Force is the butt of many jokes and so that kind of rubbed off on me as a 17-year-old kid who thought he knew everything but didn't. But then I had a chance encounter with one of my best friends growing up in high school. His uncle was a retired Air Force OSI special agent and this dude was a millionaire. He ran his own private security company, did consulting work, and he sat me down one day and I was telling him like yeah, I'm going to join the Marines and he's like, have you looked at the Air Force? And I was like, no, not really. And he actually did counterintelligence work for the SR-71 platform and he told me a little bit about what that was like. I'm like, damn, that sounds pretty cool.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, you know, my dad gets his wish and one day I walk into the Air Force recruiter's office and he shows me the video. You know he's got one of those two-in-one combo TV with the VCR and he pops in this video and it's air force special tactics and that's, you know, it's dudes on helicopters and it's it's CCTs doing their thing and it's a couple of Burt runs from an eight Hell. Yeah, I remember there was these dudes on four wheel, four wheelers, like coming over the mountains. You just like man that looks awesome. Um, I didn't know, the air force did stuff like that. And my recruiter being a recruiter, he's like, yeah, man like, and you're, you're an Eagle scout. He's like we've got this job called seer and they're under special tactics and I I throw up quotes I mean I've got a lot of respect for the seer specialists that I've worked with, but you know, I throw up air quotes and I'm like okay everybody knows what you mean.
Speaker 2:Everybody knows what you mean, everybody. Yeah, I'm like, what do they do, man? And he's like, well, he's like they go in and they rescue POWs and I'm like what, that sounds awesome. So he kind of the pitch that my recruiter gave me was kind of a blend of what pararescue and a little bit of what SEER does that time or whatever. He never even told me about TACP, but anyway, that's where I get a guaranteed contract, for I go into the Air Force to be a SEER specialist.
Speaker 2:And when I joined basic training we were putting it like there was this experimental thing going on with all the special tactics jobs were put into one basic training flight. You got extra PT and at the time you had to take the physical agility, agility and stamina test, the past test. So it was basically your air force PT test with stricter standards plus a swim and a pull-ups and a swim the. The distance on that was different, for if you were seer versus CCT versus PJ, whatever, so all through basic training we're, we're doing this extra stuff, we're taking our pass test, but they would break us up into groups and they'd let you go with the cadre from your endoc and and have some like, I guess pre-endoc time with those guys. So about the second time that that me and the rest of the seer specialist candidates from my basic training uh flight went over to, uh, the base medina where they do all that stuff. When we meet with the seer guys and I'm just not liking what I'm hearing they keep talking about when you get to thayer child air force base and you get in a classroom and I want to hear more about like the deployments and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Again, I'm 17 or I just started 18 full of piss of vinegar, I'm gonna single-handedly cut the head off the snake of terror. You know what I mean? I'm that guy and these dudes are like bro, what are you talking about? Like we're SEER instructors, we teach survival school. Like, yeah, sometimes we deploy, we might be in like a joint personal recovery center. Like looking at maps and stuff and talking about evasion plans, but we're not kicking doors down. I'm like this isn't what I wanted to do. Now in hindsight, yeah, in hindsight that would have been a great job, but remember, everything happens for a reason, right? So so I tell them before even graduating, basic training and going to end doc, before all that I raised my hand. I'm like this is not the job I want to do and they're like cool man, like you, you DNR, we'll send you back to military personnel and you can pick your new job.
Speaker 2:So by this time, because of that basic training flight, I've got a pretty good understanding of what special tactics is, the different jobs and I'm like all right, I either want to be a CCT or a TACP, and I was, honestly, for most of my career I leaned more towards TACP. Just because they're more JTAC centric. You know the work that they do with the army, whether it's infantry or ODAs, whatever. Um, tacp seemed like a really great job. So I go back to the personnel section and they hand me this list of all these jobs I can do based on my ASVAB scores. I want to do TACP and they're like you can't. I want to. I want to do CCT and they're would put you in a holdover status for too long, so you can't do these jobs.
Speaker 2:I'm like all right, she's like you. The staff sergeant that I'm talking to you. She's like you seem like a hard charger, though. She's like what about security forces? I'm like what's that? She's like you see these guys running around lackland. They've got the face paint on. They've got the guns and the body armor. I'm like, yeah, yeah, well, the black berets. And she's like, well, they're blue. But yeah, I'm like, what are those dudes all about? She's like, well, that's like they're basically the infantry in the Air Force Dude.
Speaker 1:The famous words. I know it, dude, and I was in.
Speaker 2:Yep, I'm like, all right, that's what I'm doing for sure. Infantry of the Air Force you get a sweet-looking cat out of the deal and all their logos. You know because your tech school for security forces is on Lackland where you go through basic. So you go into, like you know, the PX, and you see security forces and it's like a skull with a beret and a dagger going through it, definitely ripped off of Special Forces, but it's. You know that imagery is everywhere and you're like, all right, these dudes are badass. So I get bit by a brown recluse. It's staph infection and I become a holdover for like four or five weeks, way past that window it would have taken for me to get my flight physical.
Speaker 1:Where did you get bit by a brown recluse?
Speaker 2:Where at? So one was like in the sleeve of my blouse. So yeah, one day we were getting dressed for the day, you know drill instructor screaming at you, and I get dressed and I feel something, I kind of slap it and just over the next probably three days it turned into like it looked like somebody had cut a golf ball in half and put it underneath my arm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, like right here. So I had underneath my arm, yeah, oh yeah, like right here. So I had to go and get it cut out and drained. And, um, you know, they hand you, they hand you like it looks like a prescription bottle full of the little packing gauze, the little ribbon, and I had to pack it myself in my basic training dorm. But, uh, yeah. So I just thought it was funny that I wound up being a holdover anyway and like, had I gotten one of those special tactics jobs that wanted, like the timeline would have been perfect. But again, everything happens for a reason, right? So, um, I started security forces tech school a couple of weeks behind everyone that. I graduated basic with Um, but actually met my wife in that class, no way.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, so we're.
Speaker 2:We're out here, just uh. We're out here just beating the stereotype. We've been married almost 17 years. It'll be 17 years in April.
Speaker 1:Congratulations, man, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:She was prior security forces too, so got in that job Very excited. Man. I was very moto all through tech school. It's my first base and you're like. It's like that scene from the newer 21 Jump Street where Jonah Hill looks over it. Chantaine's like you, ready for a lifetime of being badass motherfuckers. And then you flash forward to me sitting on a flight line in a Ford F-150 for 12 hours a day just being like what is this job?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's one of those I forget what we call them MOS in the Army AFCs.
Speaker 2:AFSC yeah.
Speaker 1:AFSCs Air Force Specialty Code, column MOS and army AFCs AFSC yeah, air force specialty code. Those no-transcript are constantly going for mental health related incidents and asking for resources coming out of security forces. It is not an easy job and we bust everybody's, but I like to say that we're equal opportunity ball busters when it comes to the memes. But yeah, dude, it's security forces. They do have a reputation for being extra fucking hard on their people, man.
Speaker 2:See, they're hard on their people. When I got into criminal investigations in the Air Force, they were our biggest customer. Right, you were busting more cops, yeah, you know, cops and maintainers. It's also because those are the two largest career fields, but they were wild. But I'll say, dude, I always tell people it's the best job I ever had, and one still to this day, and I say this very honestly. Right, I've gone from the 49th Security Forces Squadron in Holloman Air Force Base, New Mexico, all the way to a Tier 1 SMU at the end of my career. Wow, and still, some of the most impressive people I've worked with were defenders. Dude, there's some really squared away dudes in that job, um, who are good at it. And and and some great leaders you know Ranger qualified guys that I've worked with for every one of them there's probably 10, just absolute goobers, Um. But there's some impressive people in that career field.
Speaker 2:And one thing I'll say about it man, it's like any combat arms guy that I talked to, if you really want to get down to it, like what's the worst part of being in the infantry besides? Like when the bait, when the garrison commander makes you go weedy, and stuff like that. It's like it's. It's pulling security, right? No one that I've ever talked to who was at a fob or cops somewhere in a shithole in Afghanistan was like, yeah, man, the best part was when I got to it's two in the morning and I'm sitting in this makeshift tower pulling security. That job sucks and but that's, that's security forces role, right they're. They're not the dudes who go in and kick out, kick down doors, you know they're not. They're not out doing, for the most part, doing dismounted patrols and stuff like that. Their job is to sit in that tower so that everyone else can get some shut eye, can do their job.
Speaker 2:Um, and there's dudes that hate the job, but the ones who stick around, the ones who get really good at that, I've got a lot of respect for that, that career field, and if you are good at your job, it's not hard to be. Uh, if you shine just a little bit, there's tons of opportunities. Man, I know, I know defenders that I've worked with that have gone to Army Sniper School, that have gone on to do stuff with different Tier 1 units. I know a guy I think right now he's still attached to some ODAs and the DEA and he's working South Com stuff, counter drugs, and he's a defender, but he's just a really squared away dude. There's all kinds of schools you can go to, cool stuff you can do in that job.
Speaker 2:But for me two years was enough. So I got my first deployment out of that job. I got to do flyaway security, which is essentially anytime a C-130, this was 08, anytime a C-130 landed outside of established perimeter. So a lot of dirt strip landings in Afghanistan, resupplying ODAs and stuff like that. Um, they needed at least two security guys on it. So if you're doing it as part of your job in the air force, you're called a Raven.
Speaker 1:I was going to say the Raven guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah For. For if you're doing it just deployed, it's called fast, or hey fucker? Um yeah, because you know, like Ravens, manvens, man, they fall under air motivational like batch the, the ravens.
Speaker 2:They actually fall underneath, uh, air mobility command and there's regulations for those guys. So they're considered air crew. You know they're. They can get air medals. Uh, they're entitled to crew rest, just like pilots, load masters, all that stuff are. So there's a lot of benefits to being a raven, uh, if you're a fast guy and you don't have that man.
Speaker 2:So there were missions that first deployment where you come back from a six hour mission you'd hit your rack and then two hours later you're getting woken up and it was like, hey, there's another no notice or short notice mission, they need security, go. And you were out the door again. They need security, go. And you were out the door again. I remember several times in that first deployment walking around just feeling drunk man because I was so tired, because we were just ramping up. This was leading up to. I was there 08 to 09. So this was leading up to the big surge. Yeah, and we were.
Speaker 2:Actually I was on a couple flights that where we airdropped some dudes into Kandahar, uh, which is pretty cool some guy, I think some guys from 10th mountain and a bunch of marines, uh. But anyway, that was also my first introduction to, to jsoc and working with different units from there. Because, again, if you're, if you're squared away in your job of security forces, not hard to be uh, there's some advantages and we had some due to, uh, we're just absolute hand sandwiches on that mission and dudes fall asleep while we're doing in-flight security. You've got a bunch of Afghans on the plane. They're falling asleep and that happened on one of these JSOC callsign missions and the dudes somebody you know went to the commander of the flying unit and was just like hey, we don't want those security guys.
Speaker 2:And they, by name, requested myself and this guy named DJ he was like an E5 at the time. So we got to fly all those missions and sometimes those were the short notice ones. But it was cool to get that exposure and not to necessarily do cool things. Because I was just a security guy Playing with land. I run off cool things. Because I was just a security guy Playing with land, I run off. And sometimes I'm holding security for dudes from Delta or whatever. It's like they don't need me to hold their security, but just to be a part of it, man, just to see what was going on and get a better understanding of how special operations work in-country.
Speaker 1:Hey, everybody, has their part to play man, oh, absolutely Everybody has a role, dude. Your ability to provide that security, um, just shit. There's plenty of times we're flying with our afghan guys from one base to another and, yeah, another set of eyes on you never know when, motherfuckers, if somebody's gonna fucking do something wild and crazy, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:That's right, man, in the interest of American eyes abso-fucking-lutely. And if those dudes have to do my job, then they're, you know, setting down some part of their job.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it was cool to be a part of Kind of lit a fire inside of me, you know, back for that special tactics role. So about two and a half years after doing that I was placed in the armory on base and got exposure to, uh, a shred out of security forces called combat arms training and maintenance caddy. Uh, so you are the firearms instructors for the entire air force. Uh, you, all of the quals, all of the training, and then you also you go to armor school, get all the weapons maintenance stuff, uh. So I thought that that seemed like a pretty good way to spend your time. It was definitely better than sitting on the flight line and the dudes at the caddy shop at my first base were dude, they were awesome. You know, it was a great job because you show up at 7 in the morning. Maybe you teach a 9-0 class to just the base populace. You know, medical group, dental to maintainers, whatever You're usually done by about noon and then we would do our own training or we'd light up the smoker and have a brisket going and it was just all kinds of stuff. It was a cool job but ultimately I just felt like I wasn't doing enough.
Speaker 2:I'd gotten a recruitment email from the 24th Special Tactics Squadron, which is the Air Force's Tier 1 component, and it was to go there to be a combat arms instructor. So I was talking to the recruiter. It seemed like a great opportunity, it seemed like everything I wanted, but it was like I'm still just going to be sitting in the armory while these dudes go out and do their thing. So I ultimately passed on that opportunity, started training again to retrain in the TACP and I met an OSI agent. Dude comes out to the range one day his name was Chester McBride and he'll come back into the story in a second. But this dude shows up to the range one day. He's freaking yoked, he's got all kind of cool guy kit on. We put him through his call and he's got one of the best qualifications I'd seen in a long time just awesome groups, very competent with a firearm, whether it was pistol, rifle, whatever. Um, you could tell he just knew he was doing. So I start talking to him and I'm like all right, what's the lowdown on uh osi? Because I'm thinking about retraining an attack p. He's like well, we've got an agent who's a former tech p? Uh named ben, if you want to talk with him. But you know, basically it boiled down to and ben came in the conversation. But he's like look, he's like tech, p, combat, control, all those jobs are great. If that's what you want to do, go for it. He's like those dudes only have a mission, you know, when they're deployed and their tempo is pretty high.
Speaker 2:Right now. I was married, had three young kids. The pitch they gave me was you know, osi has a mission 24-7. Whether you're downrange or you're home station, you're doing good stuff. You know they threw out. You know OSI is the executive agency for the Air Force for counterterrorism. Oh, that sounds awesome. I'll caveat that with you know they're talking about if an airman is radicalized or is supporting, you know, a terrorist organization. They're not talking about going out and kicking down doors. That's what I had in my mind. They're like we've got this anti-terrorism specialty team and these dudes are searching caves in Afghanistan. It's like, yeah, they did that and like, yeah, they did that in like oh two, when no one knew what was going on. But it's like that was. That was a really small thing. There was a couple pictures of OSI agents wearing like cool hats with like deck down in fours and they're in a cave, dude. That happened once that became the selling point for generations of OSI agent agreements.
Speaker 2:You do something, one time it becomes legendary and epic yeah, but ultimately, yeah, I retrained in OSI. Got stationed in Jay Bear man yeah, but ultimately, yeah, I retrained in OSI. I got stationed in Jay Bear, alaska coolest place I ever lived and started out with criminal investigations and rolled into counterintelligence work, which has been, I'd say, the body of my career. So through OSI I got sent on my third deployment. That was back to Bagram and I was super excited about it because Chester the guy who recruited me in OSI I got sent on my third deployment. That was back to Bagram and I was super excited about it because Chester, the guy who recruited me in OSI, he was there. He's going to be one of my teammates. Guy named Michael Cinco, who I went through the academy FLETC with he was my roommate on that deployment. A guy named Peter Taub, who was my partner for the FBI, put on this with their high value detainee interrogations group. They put on like a cognitive interviewing and interrogations course. So it's a pretty big deal. It was like a pilot program but me and Pete got to go through that together. So there are at least three dudes that I knew pretty well and had history with going to be on my team in addition to the rest. So we went to an expeditionary detachment there in addition to the rest. So we went to an expeditionary detachment there.
Speaker 2:And you know OSI has a lot of roles, downrange from big J2 stuff all the way down to you know what we're doing with the EDETs and that is it's CI support to force protection and it's counter threat operations. So ultimately the goal is keeping the airfield green. You know, if you've got incoming, aren't taking off until the all clear sounded right. You can't have dudes on the flight line while rockets are coming in Uh. So it's it's vitally important for us to keep that airfield green. So we're looking for, you know, the, the actual uh dudes launching rockets. We're looking for the facilitators, we're looking for the financiers, um, and in the best cases we're we're going off base, we financiers, and in the best cases we're going off base, we're in the villages and we're taking their shit where we can find it. If they've got a weapons cache, it's ours now. And we work with EOD.
Speaker 2:I spent a lot of time working with 3rd Group and 19th Group on that deployment out of Camp Vance. Certainly the dudes there, so one of those patrols, and there's a lot more to the story for people in the know. Um, you know, there was definitely some intelligence failures from from task force level. There was just a lot, um, I'll say, on our front there may have been some complacency, uh, but ultimately, you know, I guess that's all I'll say about that. But uh, 21, december 2015,. Um, well, I'll take one step back.
Speaker 2:So the way that we were planning these missions, it was typically two agent teams. So an agent team consisted of two special agents, a linguist and we had an analyst that would obviously stay back on the base, but the two agents and their linguist would lead a patrol of security forces tactical security element members we were doing source means, we were looking for those weapons caches and you would have a backup of security forces. Tactical security element members we were doing source means, we were looking for those weapons caches and you would have a backup agent team with you. So four agents on the ground, two linguists and your group of security forces. Sometimes we'd take a JTAC, sometimes EOD, whatever. So this particular mission, cinco planned the mission.
Speaker 2:My roommate and he put me and my partner, gage, on that mission initially, and I came to him probably a week before the mission and was like, hey, man, me and Gage have a bunch of sorts of meets this week. We've got two outside the wire missions of our own. We're just getting crushed. Right now Would you mind switching us with Team Thunder, which was Pete and John's team, and he's like yeah, no problem. So that day comes we're sitting back, kind of QRF posture type of thing, but not really involved, and we get a banging on our door and it's one of our we had our own embedded ISR, so it's one of our drone drone operators.
Speaker 2:He's like dude, team just got hit, everybody's down. And I'm just like dude, don't fuck around like that. Like don't say that shit. It's not funny. As I start welling up and I'm like oh shit, this is for real. So I run back down to the, to our talk, and you can see everything on on the uh, on the screen, you know, and it's bodies laid out. I feel a little guilty about it because at the time I saw what looked like dark uniforms and I thought it was like okay, our guys are good, it's just Afghans that are down. I mean, that's a shitty thing to say. That's a human being, right, but at the same time, it's not my guys, you know Exactly, yeah, anybody that's deployed understands.
Speaker 1:And time it's not my guys. You know exactly, yeah, we. Anybody that's deployed understands. And you, if you're in that similar situation, you're watching this shit from the inside. The talk like that's something.
Speaker 2:You're looking for reassurance, any sign that it's not us, that it's not your dudes yeah so, uh, so we're spinning up casivac and I look over at it be my partner, gage, look at our sel and like what do you need? And he's like, just get to the Cassavac point. So we load up in our truck, we take off and that's really where it hit me for the first time, cause I start going. You know every, everybody, except for one, chester, just a strong fucking person Like he made it all the way to an operating table. Me and Gage actually carried him to the operating table and we watched him crack his chest and, um, you know he, he fought to the very end, but everyone else was. You know it was what it was, but seeing everybody, um, you know that I'd say that's the initial breaking point for me.
Speaker 2:Um, and then a dude, uh, dude, what was this guy's name? He was third group. I can't think of it right now. He was on the cover of Rolling Stones magazine and actually got recalled from country, but he was one of the main guys we were working with at the time. Name might come to me, but anyway, he came over to me, man, and he rats me up in a bear hug and he whispers in my ear. He's like we're going to kill every last one of these motherfuckers. I'm like alright, and that's kind of how we finished out that deployment. We were working with third group a lot, a bunch of Jews from 20th and I think some 19th group guys rolled into some guard bombs. And I don't mean that disrespectfully, I mean they just they would. They would jump from deployment to deployment, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:That's one of the biggest uh, open, open secrets about soft guys that are in the 19th and 20th group. They would just endless summers, we like to call it. They would just bum from deployment to deployment. Uh, a lot of guys just did not want to live at home and did not want, or it was just collecting money and collecting a paycheck, but for vast majority it was just the adventure seeking of and the freedom, because everybody always needs one more extra guy. So it was incredibly, uh, uh, it was one of the things that made it very alluring to go to the guard side, be able to jump from uh deployments, deployments from team to team, so, and deployments to deployments from team to team.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, they had a lot of knowledge man, Dave Kaiser was that guy's name. I think he was a star in first class. Yeah, dave Kaiser was the main guy I worked with in third grade, anyway. So you know that deployment was kind of from there from then on out was kind of nose down. You know we were getting revenge for our dudes.
Speaker 1:We got a lot of good work done.
Speaker 2:So I think I left there with. You know, we we keep a board in each of our little team rooms and I had 12 faces up on that board, you know, just for my team. So kind of proud walking so we go through that attack One of the first things that the Air Force does. I think within two days we had an operational psychologist on the ground evaluating our dudes, um, and she, she spent about a month there on the ground with us, talking with us, looking at our ops, um, evaluating dudes for TBIs and some some of the guys. She said, hey, you need to go home, you're not good, but I got the thumbs up so finished out that deployment.
Speaker 2:Got back home to Alaska and it's April at this point, so weather's great my wife and kids were on spring break for the first week that I was on R&R, so again, I'm distracted there. But as soon as they went back to school, my wife became a school teacher. So as soon as they went back to school, man, um, it hit me and and it was that. It was that hole that I'm sure anyone who's who's listening to your podcast has already heard about. Right, you're going down that hole.
Speaker 2:It's drinking? It's not. I'm not getting out of bed till like 3 PM. Um, I'm in Alaska, I should be fly fishing and I'm just out doing all the things, the outdoor stuff that I love waiting to do. Yeah, I'm not doing any of it, man, um and it, and it got to the point. You know, I will credit the military for as bad as the services suck. I'll credit the umpteen freaking briefings that I had to sit through about ptsd and mental health awareness. You know, yeah, because when it started happening to me, those briefings came back and I started recognizing some of those signs. All right.
Speaker 2:Good, I'm not right, something's fucked up here. So one day I told myself like you have to get outside of the house and I was already on vitamin D pills just because Alaska makes you vitamin D deficient. But I knew I was like you need some vitamin D, you need to get out of the house and you go do something. You need to clear your head. So I had a bow case laying in the garage. I'd been shooting a bow just for fun and for hunting unsuccessfully up to that point. But I had a bow, so I grab it. I go two minutes down the road. I lived on base and there was a great archery range there, about two hours out there, locked in drilling that target, you know one after that initial shot and it was maybe that afternoon or maybe a couple days later. But I realized like hey, that two hours was the first time in probably eight months that I didn't think about 21 December. I didn't think about we call them the hustler six. It was we lost six team members in total, uh, and our call sign was hustler six. So they became the hustler six. It was we lost six team members in total, uh, and our call sign was hustler six, so they became the hustler six.
Speaker 2:That was the first time I didn't think about the hustler six. Um, I said, hey, maybe there's something to this. But it also going back to those briefings, right, like it made me realize, like, all right, if, if I saw a benefit from archery, then there's something that I'm covering up. Yeah, so it ultimately you, you know, I kept shooting my bow but it made me maybe go in and talk to my detachment commander at the time who he had been blown up in Iraq years before and almost died. He was ripped in half. I mean, he had a scar from a sternum all the way down his center line and then up his back. It's a miracle he didn't die.
Speaker 2:But you know, obviously he had some some struggles with that. So, you know, did a one-on-one with him, he actually brought in a chaplain and and a counselor into the detachment and kind of made it a coverall. Like, hey, I want everyone to take advantage of this. They're going to park in the conference room and if you just want to go in there, go in there. Uh, so he kind of broke the stigma down. Um, I think after like a day or two nobody went in, so he was just like all right, I'm scheduling everybody a block, you can go in there and do what you want. So he like forced his people to go talk to mental health. Um, but you know, I at that point I had to, so I went in there, I talked to a doc for the first time. Uh, kept seeing a doc on base Uh, and it just it led to a lot, you know, and it also led me to to want to acknowledge that I needed to fix it.
Speaker 2:So I'm getting ready to leave Alaska. I'm slated for a job at OSI headquarters in DC.
Speaker 2:Like doing the most miserable thing possible, like reviewing closed case files and I'm just like, yeah, I'm ready to get, get out of the air force. I'm ready for something different. And I get a call from doc lambrick, the psych doc that they sent out on that deployment, and she's like, hey, I'm doing something new. Um, I'm, I'm at a unit. I can't really tell you anything about it, but I think you should try out and I'm like, well, where's it at?
Speaker 2:she's like it's at fort bragg, north carolina, and I'm like, all right, you have my interest so, uh, so, literally, with like a week's notice, I'm getting a flight out to fort bragg to go through this selection, um, and I get on the ground and I'm with a bunch of super impressive dudes, um, go through this process and like I don't know. I don't want to sound like a douchebag here, but you know, I I thought, looking at the people I'm going through selection with, I'm like there's not a chance in hell, like I'm nobody and I'm the only dude that got the thumbs up from that process, so rolled into an SMU doing it was. It was a weird deal because I was still ad con to Air Force OSI under our special projects division, but I was op con and take on to this unit and our mission was primarily like AFO and OPE type stuff. You know, very, it definitely fit the world that I was used to because it was all planes, plain clothes. You know, yeah, very cool stuff. Um, but I say it was the best and worst time of my career is the best time because it was obviously it's it's the coolest mission you can ever do.
Speaker 2:Uh, everyone from my, my team leaders, who were all operators all the way down to, like, the finance guy that sat in our unit was the best fucking person at their job. You know what I mean. Like everyone was just squared away and it's like this is the promised land, this is where I belong, um, and I did that for three years, uh, and I made master sergeant and got told by big blue like hey, you know, we're going to take all of your, your leadership and experience and and we're going to put you at headquarters. Finally, um and I kind of knew it was coming I won NCO of the year, I'd done all kinds of good stuff, um, and that's that's where they get you. So I was, I was caught up on my ETS and I basically just decided like look, um, you know, because of the work we were doing and the and the, the units we were getting to train with, uh, I spent a lot of time, uh, with a couple of people from FBI's HRT and they're like yeah, man, come on over Like you're a shoe in. Um, we have one of the guys who was leading, uh, one of the squadrons at HRT was also a green beret Colonel, but he was the, the IMA, or reserve commander at another tier, one unit that's up in like Northern Virginia. Uh. So he's like hey man, like you join the reserves, we'll roll you into this. You do your two years in the field. You're coming to HRT, like no doubt about it.
Speaker 2:All right, so 2019, I left active duty, uh, joined the FBI, and that was my plan was to go HRT, um, but there's this weird thing that happens, like when you get out, when you leave active duty, right Is, um, I think some of the stuff that I experienced, some of the traumas that I've been I've dealt with, there was always this sense that, like I'll be back to deal with this, whether it was in Afghanistan or or wherever you know, it's like, all right, maybe, maybe it wasn't this rotation, but next rotation, like we'll get it done, uh, and then when you get out, you know you've got this, like in any crisis that happens, uh, you know I went from being you know what I considered a tier one operator. You know I was. I was a direct support guy. I don't want to.
Speaker 1:I don't want to like overstate my role there, um, but but absolutely, but yeah, you know got to do really cool stuff, but you know ass off and you were working at some very, very elite levels. Man, yeah, dude it was it was?
Speaker 2:it was dope. That's, that's what made it the worst part, because the imposter syndrome for me was real, because I I've always just seen myself as hey, I'm just a dude, and I'm walking around with these giants man, like dudes from from opposite, you dudes from offset.
Speaker 1:They make movies about you know it's like man, you're that dude uh, the funny thing is, jason, like everyone that I've talked to, everyone has that, every motherfucker has that, even if even at the oda level and I can I can completely understand how much more complex it is because you're you're like, well, I'm just some fucking security forces guy, I'm just an OSI guy, I'm just you know, really good at, but I'm not this guy's like, bro, where you started out from, man, like where you started out from and where you ended.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I was, it's, it's definitely humbling to look.
Speaker 1:Are you ending?
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I was Holy shit. It's definitely humbling to look back and think of it, man. It's like I went from sitting on a flight line or like scanning your cack have a good day to. Yeah, dude, I'm at Fort Bragg just doing shit that I never even dreamed was possible. Yeah, so it was awesome, but ultimately, like I said, I couldn't do that anymore. I kind of reached the pinnacle of my career and they were like hey, we're going to you, know your master's starting now, we're moving you. And it's like nah, I'm out, so joined the FBI. Ultimately, that turned out not to be for me Moving to Central Virginia, where the FBI stationed me in Lynchburg, virginia, in a little small office. That was our seventh move as a family and it was the first one where my wife and kids just like got on the ground immediately just thrive. My wife was like this feels like home. So for me to keep them there for two years and then uproot them again to go to Northern Virginia to do the HRT gig, I'm just like no not in the cards.
Speaker 2:But also I had to be realistic with myself because when I was, when I was at Fort Bra at Fort Bragg we had access to world-class facilities, whether it was gyms, trainers, nutritionists, physical therapists, docs, whatever. I was at my peak A couple years later and then COVID hits. I'm kind of falling apart. I'm starting to have severe. I found out I've got a bunch of herniated disc in my back, I've got femoral acetubular impingement, my knees are fucked, Uh, my head is fucked, and it's just like you know what. Let let me be responsible here. Like, do I need to be that dude? Do I need to go and try to prove something and join HRT? Uh, with the issues that I know I have, or can I just? You know, I've already gotten that t-shirt. To a certain extent I'm good.
Speaker 2:So I let that dream sell and ultimately just found myself unhappy with the FBI, whether it was the work I was doing. I mean, I did some meaningful shit. I rescued four kidnapped children, Holy shit. I worked crimes against children. I worked counterterrorism, I worked violent gangs. I mean, I was in a small office so I had the ability to do just about anything I wanted and got to work with, you know, a lot of the local agencies and some federal partners, just because there wasn't, you know, there weren't a lot of us out there. But ultimately, just seeing the politics at play with the FBI, the way things kind of went, and everything you're seeing coming to light now, you know, that was ultimately a turning point for me. It was just like I need to do something else.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But in the midst of all that, you know I'm shooting my bow and I've got a buddy my co-founder, ray. His story is in. He worked crimes against children for the Air Force. I think at one time he was like one of only three child forensic interviewers in the whole Air Force. So anytime a child was victimized he was put on the case. He's seen a lot of terrible shit. He also, on his own, found out that archery helped him.
Speaker 2:So he and I started talking and I'm like man, I got this idea. We're just going to start introducing dudes, vets and first responders. We're going to introduce them to archery, we're going to coach them along, we're going to show them what archery did for us, because we were both having issues with the VA. Yep, you know just whether it was like shitty doctors, or sometimes it's not even that it's a bad doctor, but it's a lack of availability. There's so many people that need the services and at my VA here it's like yeah, man, like we can get you in in 12 months. Yeah, what do I do for a year, man? Well, my head's fucked. Um. So I tell Ray, like I've got this idea, we're going to, we're going to start this thing and we call it index archery for two reasons.
Speaker 2:Index, as as most of your listeners know, means end of exercise, and for me, I saw a lot of my brothers and sisters in arms. Their approach to their mental health was an exercise of futility, meaning that they were using alcohol, drugs, risky behavior, all this terrible shit that's not improving their lives. That's, that's what they're using to cover their ptsd. Uh, so that's an exercise in futility. And then also the whole va route. You know, like you, you're just a hamster in a wheel. So we're going to call Index and all that. We're going to find ways to get people one, the individual help they need, and two, I think social wellness is huge too, so introduce them to a community that is uplifting and supportive and has some resources. So we launched Index. It's just like he and I going to mentor some folks, and about the third person that I introduced to archery and then walked into a bow shop and watched them spend about two grand of their own money, I just said there's got to be something else, because watching people spend that much money sucks. So we formulated the nonprofit with the goal of we provide 100% of the equipment that people need to get into the sport, uh, and then we mentor them personally and then the end goal is to introduce them, whether that's an indoor shooting league, an outdoor 3d league or some type of community where they can, they can bond with people. You know, and the archery community has got a lot of veterans, a lot of first responders anyway, but it's also a lot of good old boys and you know, you kind of get that thing You're standing at a target, there's five of you, you shoot a 10 when you're going for a 12 and somebody's like nice shot, but you suck and you smile about it. Right, and it's, it's. It's what we find in the veteran community.
Speaker 2:Um, the FBI has got this really cool program If you're involved in a critical incident, so a shooting or some mass cash would be something like that. Uh, they do this post critical incident seminar. So, uh, my squad was involved in an in a shooting. No, no cool story, nothing really serious, but it was an agent involved shooting. So, um, I got an invite to this program and it was. It was kind of twofold. The guy, the, the employee assistance coordinator, knew me and knew of index and what I was trying to do. So he was like, hey, you qualify because of this incident you were involved in, but also I think this would be really cool for you to see for your nonprofit. So they send you to Disney for a week. You put up in a resort and it's packed full. I mean, you wake up at seven in the morning until four in the afternoon.
Speaker 2:It is different wellness modalities, be it yoga, uh, guided meditations, breathing exercises.
Speaker 2:It's one-on-ones with counselors, it's group sessions with counselors.
Speaker 2:It's just five days of just everything that you can put in your toolbox. And you know that for me was an epiphany because it's like I can. I can really take index to the next level. If I build my own wellness center, it becomes archery focused, but I can bring dudes from all over the country, put them through a five day intensive, introduce them to archery and then every other tool that we can imagine, um, and send them back home to an index ambassador to continue to work and make sure that there's follow through there. So that's what we're building towards. Right now we're still on a one-on-one basis. We work with with people struggling with PTSD, introduce them to the sport and introduce them to that community aspect of it. But as we're growing, we're conducting research with psychologists and licensed social, licensed professional counselors. Um, and it's my goal to buy property and build a wellness center here in central Virginia. Um, and it's similar to a lot of things that are going on. One if you've probably heard of a big sky bravery you know they're for active Talk.
Speaker 1:To just talk to them this morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so you know something similar to what they have going on? I mean, my other goal is to to bring in as many non-profit resources as possible, because I don't do hunts. Um, I'm step one. I hand a guy a bow for the first time. He's not ready to hunt, but in a year from now I can pass him off to a good buddy of mine, a guy named Tony Cowden.
Speaker 1:I was just, I was just gonna say the reason outdoors yeah, so you know I give. I get Tony on on last night, yeah tony yeah, tony's a good dude man.
Speaker 2:Uh, he actually I met him. He's crazy, he's fucking riot man he came out and instructed one of our shooting packages. When I was at the unit we did like a three-day thing. It's a place called spartan ranch. Yeah, he was our instructor and I was like this dude badass. Yeah, I can pass him off to the reason outdoors operation, pay it forward. Um, maybe a guy comes in our program we identify that archery is just not for him Project healing waters, you know. Hey, maybe we can try fly fishing.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Um, if they're still active. You know, hey, have you heard of big sky bravery? There's all of these nonprofits out there. We can pull our resources and kind of make it a cycle. You know where? I take a dude from day one with a bow, get him on a hunt. Now he's ready to introduce his friend, and he comes back with his friend and now he's a mentor during our five day wellness intensive. Um, and the cycle continues.
Speaker 1:Dude, jason, I have, I have no doubt this is going to fucking pan out and work. Um, you are driven and dedicated to this, just like you were in your mission when you were still in man, uh, and it's it's great to connect with you. I we got to stay in touch cause I've got, uh, got some big things. I'm not going to announce them right now, um, but, uh, yeah, dude this, jason, I can't thank you enough for coming on here today sharing your story. Um, it's stories like this to give individuals are listening our audience the understanding that they can overcome their stuff too. Um, you don't have to sit there and sit in your room alone. Get outside, get in some sun, pick up your bow and if you don't have one, well, hey, I got a buddy right now.
Speaker 1:Jason McCoy hit him up on index archery and, uh, the link to his website will be in the episode description. If you want to check them out on Instagram, they'll be there as well. Jason, thank you for being here today. Man, thank you for sharing your story. Can't wait to have you back on. I know this is going to blow up. I can't wait to see where this journey takes you. Man, it's been incredible just having you here, dude.
Speaker 1:I appreciate it man, if you could tell us the website?
Speaker 2:real quick. What's your website? Yeah, it's indexarcheryorg, that's E-N-D-E-X archeryorg. And then same all of our socials Instagram, facebook, all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, there you have it, folks. Thank you guys for tuning in and, uh, hey, head on over to Apple podcasts and Spotify. Give me five seconds of your time maybe 10, hit us up, give us a review, pass us off to a friend and, you know, help us grow. We appreciate it Again. Thank you, jason. Thank you all for tuning in. We'll see you all next time. Until then, take care. Thanks for tuning in and don't forget to like, follow, share, subscribe and review us on your favorite podcast platform. If you want to support us, head on over to buymeacoffeecom, forward slash SecHawk podcast and buy us a coffee. Connect with us on Instagram X or TikTok and share your thoughts or questions about today's episode. You can also visit securityhawkcom for exclusive content, resources and updates. And remember we get through this together. If you're still listening, the episode's over. Yeah, there's no more Tune in tomorrow or next week.
