Security Halt!
Welcome to Security Halt! Podcast, the show dedicated to Veterans, Active Duty Service Members, and First Responders. Hosted by retired Green Beret Deny Caballero, this podcast dives deep into the stories of resilience, triumph, and the unique challenges faced by those who serve.
Through powerful interviews and candid discussions, Security Halt! Podcast highlights vital resources, celebrates success stories, and offers actionable tools to navigate mental health, career transitions, and personal growth.
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Security Halt!
#244 Reigniting Creativity: Van Lai-DuMone on Play, Mental Health, and Military Transitions
In this episode of Security Halt!, Van Lai-DuMone joins host Deny Caballero to explore the transformative power of creativity and play in overcoming challenges and fostering growth. Van shares her journey of integrating creativity into professional spaces, especially through her work with the Honor Foundation, which supports military personnel transitioning to civilian life. The discussion delves into how societal norms stifle curiosity and creativity in adulthood, particularly for veterans, and how practices like Lego Serious Play can reignite problem-solving skills and mental well-being. They also examine the role of play in parenting, the mental health benefits of creativity, and the importance of embracing joy and curiosity in new beginnings. This insightful conversation is a must-listen for anyone seeking to unlock their creative potential and navigate transitions with purpose and resilience.
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Chapters
00:00 The Power of Curiosity and Play
03:04 Creativity in Adulthood: A Journey Back
05:57 Transitioning from Military to Civilian Life
09:03 Lego Serious Play: Building Futures
11:54 The Role of Creativity in Professional Life
14:51 Overcoming Skepticism in Creative Work
17:55 Engaging with Creativity for Mental Health
21:04 Incorporating Creativity in the Workplace
24:10 Creative Problem Solving in the Military
25:59 Empowering Change Through Action
26:29 Fostering Creativity in Parenting
28:12 Divergent and Convergent Thinking Explained
30:28 Adapting to Virtual Engagement
32:57 Unlocking Creativity in Rigid Minds
35:18 The Power of Play in Problem Solving
37:06 Transitioning from Military to Civilian Life
40:51 Finding Joy in New Beginnings
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Produced by Security Halt Media
security hot podcast let's go with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best with guns, with knives with his bare hands a man who's been trained to ignore, ignore weather.
Speaker 1:To live off the land job, was disposed of enemy personnel to kill period with my attrition.
Speaker 2:I shouldn't have done that it's like when you google something, it's gonna be the worst case scenario for sure always, absolutely always, it's like I have a minor toothache, well, it turns out you have bone cancer.
Speaker 1:It's like, oh my god, I'm so like that too. You know, I have a feeling, despite.
Speaker 2:Again, this might be connected to our childhood yes, oh, right, then when is the other shoe gonna drop, right? Yeah, absolutely come on.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for joining me today of course I'm happy to be here yeah, it was awesome connecting with you. We had like the audience, of course is no buts. We had like an hour long conversation.
Speaker 2:We should have just recorded that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's like it's amazing to have learned of your mother's story through media. Seeing it on, I forget what show you're watching, but it's such an impactful story. There's these like little Americana moments in history that are just like insanely. I love reading any, any type of book, any sort of like history of first generation americans, and your mother's story is very much one of those. Just like sticks out. It's like, oh my god, like this is, this is so cool. And then by chance being connected and being like wait a second, I know your mother's story interesting.
Speaker 1:When I tell it I'd be like wait, I already know that story but then you yourself also have this amazing story of what you're doing now. Uh, the importance of curiosity and play, which, as adults, but I think even more importantly as as men, we lose that understanding of like but like. Why is it so weird to understand that there's? There's a power in play, there's a power in curiosity. Like, a lot of us are doing things in our garage, we're tinkering, we don't call it play.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yes. I mean, it's educated out of us right Very early on, is educated out of us, and I always talk about this idea that you know cause I bring creativity and play into the workplace. And when I first started this 10 years ago I was like laughed out of a lot of offices, a lot of networking events and because people really didn't get it, like no, we're adults, we're professionals, we need to be serious. And then I started looking at these studies about how play creativity as children. It plays such a big part in our development and and and us be able to discover things in childhood. But guess what? There are zero studies that say like, oh, by the way, at 18 years old, that stops right. There's no studies that say that that learning through creativity and play stops in adulthood. We just stop doing it because it becomes not socially. It's not part of our social norm to do so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it's. It's funny that it becomes this taboo thing, this idea of like all right, you're a man, now go to work, and at work there's no room for curiosity.
Speaker 2:It's very linear.
Speaker 1:You, you just work, just do this, don't think outside the box. But then you get into a place like special operations and it's all about unconventional, it's all about being outside of the box. So you have to lean into these concepts. But in your life, when you were first coming up with this concept, when you first started working with it or wrestling with it, what were you? Was this something that you acquired some of this knowledge in college, like? When did this journey first begin?
Speaker 2:Oh my God. So I was always creative growing up, like, looking back into my childhood, my mom would buy me a new pair of shoes and an hour later she's like, why are they painted? I was physically wearing my parents' Bobby and we were like low, low middle class. My parents were Vietnamese refugees. Right, they did so much for them. Whatever they could give for us, they did. And so when they bought, my sister and I, we shared a room and they bought us matching bunk beds. It was like a bunk bed on top desk, on the bottom, beautiful white bunk beds. And again later that afternoon they showed up. I'm like, why is that painted in? Like this colorful mural, like what happened to this bed we just bought you.
Speaker 2:So creativity and like artistry has always been a part of my life. But again, being a Vietnamese refugee, raised by, you know, vietnamese refugee parents, becoming an artist, bringing creativity into the world, was not an option. I'm supposed to be a doctor, a lawyer or an attorney, but I am not. Because ultimately, what I found was I found my way back to that creativity. And you know, I think you know in hindsight, growing up it was the message, the verbal message, of go to school, get good grades, go get your graduate degree, get a job, work for 40 years, retire and enjoy your life. Like those were the words I heard all my life. But what I saw my parents doing was following their curiosity every single day to survive. So, out of necessity, it was, you know, every single day it was you know I think we had mentioned this like the light switch broke. Well, we're not going to hire an electrician, so where's the duct tape? Where are the toothpicks? Like, how are you going to fix this? So creativity and curiosity was part of my day-to-day life and that's what I absorbed. I heard their words and I followed their words, but really, what I absorbed is this idea of like oh, curiosity, creativity allows you to create possibilities.
Speaker 2:So, although I followed that path of doing well in school, going to college, going to business school, getting into a bunch of different jobs, it wasn't until I started this business about 10 years ago that I'm like oh, this is, this is where I should be Right, this is what I should be doing with my life, and it all just kind of came full circle. Um, at first, when I started this business, I think I had, like, this little bit of resentment of like oh my gosh, like I wish I had started this earlier. I wish I'd done X, y and Z, which I'd be able to follow my passions early on in life. Uh, but in running the business I realized you know everything I did up to this point. You know every single job I had, every degree I got. It's allowed me to do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's. It's funny you hit on that, that that passion piece, and it's like everything ties into it and into it, into these themes of following your passion and even when you're not, you're finding ways to tap your creativity into doing something that you're not really passionate about. But you know you'd be better served if you had your creativity aligned with your passion and doing something that you're not really passionate about. But you know you'd be better served if you had your creativity aligned with your passion and doing something you cared about. And that's something that all of us veterans are struggling with, at least while we were going through that pivot, those first few months, those first few career sidesteps into that new career, and it's that constant holding yourself back Like I need this job for the money, but I'm not really passionate. But at moments when I'm able to apply my creativity and find myself in play whether you call it play or not, you're, you're a little bit you find a little bit of that happiness You're tapping into that.
Speaker 2:Yes, and because we're all humans, right, and what's like human nature is creative and playful. So when we can tap, when we, when we all tap in I don't care if you're special forces or not when you tap into playing creativity, you really find a piece of yourself that you've left behind in childhood or wherever it is in your past and you bring it to life in the present and, as adults, we can use it as a tool. I'm sure we're going to get into this. I'm just going to get into this right now my work with the Honor Foundation.
Speaker 1:Let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it, we can talk about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because what you said too is really. I just want to share the story of how I got to the Honor Foundation. So I'm a volunteer faculty member at the Honor Foundation and, as you know, operators as they transition from military to civilian careers. So Joe Lara was the VP of programming about four or five years ago when I got started and he reached out and he's like you know, we want to bring creativity and play into this three-month program somewhere. Where do you think you can incorporate it? So I gave him a few places in the program and he landed on transition night, the very last class before graduation.
Speaker 2:And so what I do now for the San Diego campus? I come in and I bring my creative methodologies, all these creative thinking tools, all these hands-on tactile tools like Lego series play and we talk about and we develop and we build ideas for their future. Right, this concept of your military career informs what you do next, but it doesn't dictate what you do next. So let's look at build a model with Lego of what you like to do as a child. Now look at that model and think about where could that lead you into what you want to do next. And I don't think I had shared this story with you, which is quite funny. So when Joe approached me with this, I I was like of course I'll volunteer with veterans little old men, veterans, of course. That sounds like a great opportunity to give sweet gray-haired veterans exactly that was my impression.
Speaker 2:So I, you know, the day of the event I drive down to san diego there's 20. I got like 10, 15 tables. I throw out my legos, my play-doh, my markers, arts and craft supplies, and then in walk, 40 men that look like you. I was like, ooh, I think I started sweating. I was like this is not going to go. Well, can we pack up the Legos and start over? But of course we couldn't. So I ran the program as I planned and it was a huge success, and I've been invited back every cohort since, since 2019. Because, like you said, you know, here you are, these military men who have done things like by a certain way and in terms of what we see on the outside, but what you are doing in your jobs is getting creative, getting curious and solving problems.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so true. And it's crazy to think because before I started reading and the reason why play and everything has come into my periphery is because I was looking at it from the lens of finding flow, the importance of it, which is like something that it's now become a buzzword, right. But I realized that while in uniform, our soft professionals do engage in play, they do engage in creativity in the job and, whether they like it or not, whether they admit it or not, they're also doing it in a lot of their hobbies, but they don't call it play, they don't, they don't really identify it as being play. Like I met guys that and I've worked with individuals that build amazing custom weapon systems at home. I'm like dude, what are you doing? You're tinkering, You're, you're in play.
Speaker 1:You're definitely a creative and when you look at what it takes to tap in the flow, I'm like there's so many things that interconnect there and everyone wants to find a way to enhance their performance. I want to figure out a way to really have an edge over my competition and it's like man, take a little bit of that competitive ideology out of it and start looking about how you can be more at play, be more creative with your process, your day-to-day process, because I'll tell you, when I find my roadblocks, it's not when I'm sitting there allowing myself to just free flow. It's whenever I start getting myself in a rut in a routine and I'm so rigid and I'm bound by these made-up parameters.
Speaker 1:It's like dude let go of that. You're literally recording and producing podcasts. Man, don't take it so serious. Get away from the calendar. And then you have breakthroughs and you have ideas that are outside of the box. Again You're like, wow, okay, I wouldn't have been here, I wouldn't have come to the crossroad of making this awesome new endeavor if I would just continue facing and going down the same path. And I feel like that's what Play Ultimate gives us this ability to look outside and open up your actual aperture and take in all these other ideas. Uh, and the story you shared with the with me earlier we're talking before about lego play. I was like dude that is so impactful one, because I believe that all of us still enjoy playing with legos and that gives somebody something where they can visualize themselves as this, like little figure and be like like when you were sharing that story and I won't ruin it, but if you could share that, that was really an awesome way for somebody to see what they truly wanted for their sort of themselves and their future.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so, a couple. So Lego Series Play is a facilitation methodology that I'm certified as a trainer and a facilitator and it's a methodology that was started at the Lego group. Right? These, like it was at the executive level, where they were trying to innovate. They were trying to do things differently at the Lego group, but you know, these executives would sit at a table and just come up with the same ideas over and over and over again. So they brought in an organizational behaviorist and they developed this process called Lego Serious Play, where you are using hands on learning. You're actually using your hands to build ideas and then share ideas, and there's so much like psychology behind it. But really the psychology part of the psychology is that you build it and you share it from here, like you share the model that you've built versus sharing it from just your head, your heart, whatever it is, and it allows people to share more and visualize. Right, you're using more of your brain by building and being able to look at what you built and share from there. So this is a methodology I bring to the Honor Foundation and we talk about building ideas for your future.
Speaker 2:So the first thing I'll do is ask these men and women. Build one idea for what's next for you outside of military service and we get often things like working for the Department of Defense, being a project manager, things like this and then I'll ask OK, think about something that you love, Build an idea about something you love. So there was one gentleman who this is when we were doing it virtually he built a little boat, with him on top of the boat holding a flag, and I had them send me pictures of what they built, and he lived by the water, so he put it on his patio with the ocean behind him and he's like. He's like this is, this is the model I built me doing something on the water. And then about six months later, he sent me that picture again, as well as a picture of him on a yacht, because he became a yacht broker in San Diego. So these are the things that you may think. He may have come to that possibly, but the fact that it just opened up his lens to what else is possible.
Speaker 2:Another gentleman who came into the program he you know some people do come in like what are we doing? Like we're special forces, legos, play-doh come on, lady. And there's one gentleman who stood up and shared and he's like, okay, I walked in here I was really skeptical about this, but you asked me, you asked us to build what else, like more ideas, and he was thinking about becoming an entrepreneur. So he said, as he built, he built himself a one and built this bridge to entrepreneurship. And as he was building the bridge, he noticed that this, where he was standing right now, was toppling over. Right, there wasn't, there wasn't a foundation, and which is like this realization, like oh yeah, I mean mean I, I do want to be an entrepreneur eventually, but maybe for now, what I need to do is build a stronger foundation by talking to more people, getting more education, working for a different company, whatever it might be. Um, so it just gets us to think in a non-linear way yeah, I should have done that.
Speaker 1:I jumped head first that's okay too this. This ship is being built as we go deeper and deeper into water I always recommend head first rather than overthinking I always tell people I'm like look man, like it's. You can overanalyze and you can talk yourself out of something or you can just dive in and you know there's there is. There is something to be said about learning how to swim and you're in a deep end. You're forced to do it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. And then maybe surrounding yourself with people who actually plan, and if you know about yourself that you're never going to be that strategist like me, but I'm someone who comes with an idea and I run with it, like oh, but you know about yourself that you're never going to be that strategist like me, right, like I'm someone who comes with idea and I run with it, like oh, but you know what would be nice for me to surround myself with a group of people who actually will slow me down, but have you thought about that?
Speaker 1:yeah, there's a lot more that I'd never. I don't feel so bad anymore and it's it's. Everybody has their own path. And it's five different entrepreneurs Cause I've been building the same Lego uh set as this gentleman and five of them would have come up with each profound ideas and meaning behind what they were building, and it's just you have to take the time to do it for yourself, build and play it out and draw it.
Speaker 1:I mean, there was such a power to do, like you said, doing things with your hands, tactile, but we never connected to and have you found yourself having more success than failure when it comes to bringing these ideas? Because I feel like the American education system has taught us and our younger generation to stop playing, to stop being inquisitive, to follow that linear path of thinking and just keep moving forward.
Speaker 2:Yes, so you're right. I mean, the studies show, like, even that early as like, five or six years old, the educational system we're like we're already teaching kids to not be creative, right, just do the worksheet, follow the orders. We're not asking you to think for yourself. And it's doing us a disservice in terms of, just like you know, our personal development and our professional development, in terms of, just like you know, our personal development and our professional development and what I have found in the workplace and people will ask me it's like, oh, do you have, do you get a lot of pushback about what you do? And when I first started this business 10 years ago, like I said, I get a lot of pushback Like people laughed in my face about this and I feel like, particularly maybe through COVID and that time, when people were like, oh wait, we need more innovation, we need more creativity, it became more relevant in the workplace of bringing creativity and play and I would, like I said, I always have some skeptics. There's always some skeptics, but what I find is that diminishes really quickly because of what we said before.
Speaker 2:People may walk in like what is this? And I used to do like, literally, arts, like I usually bring, like watercolors and markers and paintbrushes. Um, so people really were like, what are we doing here? But the fact is, because we are all innately creative and curious. When you put, um, when you give people the space and supplies and the supplies to be creative once they start, it's those skeptics that won't stop. I'm like it's time to put down the paintbrush and they still want to keep going Because, again, we're all innately creative. So when you give people an opportunity, you're tapping into something that's natural in all of us, and not just natural in terms of, like, our ability, but our desire we want to create.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so true, like even when we don't tap into it. And I've noticed that I didn't have this robust concept and and and framework and habits of pausing, taking time out of my day to engage in creativity and in play. It was almost like I found concepts of it in different pieces of different books and inquisitively because I'm going to school working as a mindfulness coach putting things together, trying to find any little advantage that I could to get people that have an easier or to be able to take the pill of mindfulness and swallow it down a little bit easier In finding all these different concepts and putting them piece by piece together. I found myself very much taking that time to be intentional, like engaging in a bit of play and creativity, and the one thing that I noticed is the secondary effects of helping with your mood, helping with your mental health.
Speaker 1:That's something that nobody was talking about that. I never realized. Like, dude, dude, you take a little bit of time and it's not like you don't have to think of it as I have to walk away from my responsibilities and go outside and and, uh, play with my gi joes, like no, like you can. You can make time in your day while you're working with something, or you're going to approach this, this concept of, or, for example, you're gonna, you're gonna storyboard a new idea for your podcast or for your YouTube channel. Stop, take away the ideas that you're working with and start throwing things out. Draw it out.
Speaker 1:Being able to draw something versus writing it out is engaging with the creativity and I realized that in the middle of doing that, it's like wait a second, you're not stressed about the backlog, you're not stressed about this project that has to be due, you're engaged. In the middle of doing that, it's like wait a second, you're not stressed about the backlog, you're not stressed about this project that has to be due, Like you're engaged in the moment. That is different. That is completely worth annotating and writing down. When you're working with your clients, have you noticed that if they provided you with that feedback of like, hey, like, I don't feel anxiety at work anymore? I feel a little bit more of like a desire to be at work and like be engaged in what I'm doing?
Speaker 2:Yes, and that's like, and honestly, that's why I started this business, because I was working for a large pharmaceutical company. Um, at the when I started this business and I was there, I think, a seven or eight years and it just it was a great job, a great company, but there was no sense of self and no sense of creativity at that time. I know that, I know the world has changed, but at that time there was not. I just felt like. I just felt like really a shell of myself. And so I started bringing back creativity to my life outside of my work, right, painting and drawing and things like that. I even got rid of my TV and just like I'm like in place of my TV. I had like that. That was, that was long ago. But what I found is is, doing creative activities outside of the work brought me more joy in work. And you know, I got to the point in my life where and I don't know we talked about this like the reason why I had this, this idea of this business bringing creativity in the workplace, in my head for six years. But because of that fear, right Of the unknown and all that stuff, I didn't move forward with it.
Speaker 2:I was forced into it in a sense when I, you know, I had my baby. He was eight weeks old. My brother, who was a police officer at the time, was in a head on collision with a tree on a motorcycle and he was in an induced coma for two months in the in the neuro icu at ucla. And it was me, this baby, our family, like literally just living every day in this icu waiting for my brother to wake up. And it was during that time that I just realized, like life is clear, he's fine now he's, he went back to work, he's retired now really a miracle. But seeing my baby, seeing my brother in that position, I was like you know what, like life is too short, I've had this idea Um, let me bring it to life.
Speaker 2:And, and the concept was or the, the, the impetus was you know, I have the luxury of leaving my job. Um, you know, my husband had a job, so we had that income. But what about the people who can't right? What about the people who cannot leave their job? They're still feeling the way I felt before. So if I can find a way to incorporate creativity into the work they do, we can change that and it's not like it's different than let's escape work and do paint night, right. Let's escape work and do something else like let's incorporate creativity and play into the work you do like you said you do, denny, when you're creating these um, these podcasts so we can find tools and teach people tools to incorporate creativity into the work they do. Then they can still find they can both find that creative joy and the benefits of that creative joy in a productive way in the workplace.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not about escape. That's the misconception. I think it's like, oh, we want to try to like or do a bait and switch, like, hey, you'll be at work, but magically, when you start engaging with creativity and play, you will remember you're at work.
Speaker 2:It's like, no, yeah right, yeah, and I feel like this I always talk about this idea that, you know, when I walk in these really fun office like, oh, you've got a ping pong table right, You've got, you've got all the like an open kitchen, like all these snacks and all these goodies that make it look fun, I think that's a good, that's a great, that's a great add on, but that's not why. That's not what's going to keep people motivated and happy. People want to know that their voice is heard, that their ideas matter and, yeah, nurturing that innate creativity and innate playfulness in a way that is productive to the workplace.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know right now that the audience listening. If you're still active duty, I know probably you're thinking to yourself well, vaughn, none of this is applicable to me because I'm still in uniform. How can I possibly engage with creativity and play in the military?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know, my question is like well, how might you, how could you? I've never been in the military so I don't know. But I do know, like what we had talked about earlier is that, even though clearly the military is very, like um, hierarchical, you've got very strict rules for what you need to do. Um, we already talked about the fact that it, like your experience in military, was like there are some, some, sometimes, and probably a lot of times we're like, okay, well, that plan didn't work. What? What can we do? So what type of creative problem solving tools, what kind of um you know, how could you incorporate not, and I'm not talking about like, okay, now, guys, that didn't work, let's pick up our Legos and and play, right, or let's pick up a paintbrush and paint ideas. But how can you think creatively? Right, how can you look at two things that have no connection and put them together to come up with a solution?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, it's not just it's being able to understand that. We say it all the time. Well, we're, we're outside the box thinkers. Well then, actually start thinking outside of the box. And yeah, there's going to be some hard left and right limits, but everything within that, every variable that you can influence with creativity, apply it. Figure out new ways to get around. Don't just sit back and constantly be like, well, I emailed this person and well, it's up to them. It's like, no, there's other ways you can go around and make this and solve this problem for yourself or for your organization, and it's the idea that we can actually make an impact or make a difference. We don't have to stop. That's the one thing that always frustrated me. It's like, well, I sent the email or I made the phone call, so those are the only ways you can solve the problem.
Speaker 1:You sent an email or you made a phone call In your own life. When you're reflecting on this and you're going through this and you see it within and I'm sure you probably identified with your son how you've been able to continue fanning that flame of creativity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's like I mean, I know that you're about to have a child. It's like such a wonderful experience and I really believe like they are here to teach us as much as we teach them, if not more. So my son is, you know, I homeschool him now and I homeschool him and okay. So let me go back Like this idea of like I did not have a voice growing up. Like you know, I grew up my dad was a Lieutenant Colonel in the South Indian Army, right, like there was, like there was like family meetings were like him telling us everything we did wrong and us having to go solve it ourselves. There was no like okay, well, what do you think, bud? How do you feel about this? There was none of that. So I have to admit I may have strayed completely, like way too far to the opposite side of that, when my son but he does have a voice in this family and, um, and I think, a couple situations for, for example, like he for his whole life, since he was in preschool, like I don't want to go to school, I don't want to go to school, mom, I don't want to go to school. And as he got older, he could verbalize why he doesn't want to go to school. Right Like the exact reason and the things he was saying. I had no response. Right Like why do I have to go to school eight hours a day? Well, because you know parents have to work. You solve that problem. You can stay home, exactly. And so there's all these little things. And then also there was one.
Speaker 2:So one of the tools I practice in my work is called divergent and convergent thinking. And divergent thinking is this process of when there's a challenge or a problem or an idea to vet, you want to incorporate as many perspectives as you can. There's the rules of divergent thinking are all ideas matter, all ideas make the table. There are no judgment or criteria attached to it, and wild and crazy ideas are welcome. And then, once you get all these ideas on the table, then we move to convergent thinking, and convergent thinking is great. Here are all these amazing ideas, including wild and crazy ones. Now what are our parameters? In business, it might be something like here's the budget, here's the timeline, whatever that might be Now, taking a look at all those ideas on the table and move them through that filter and see what passes to the other side when you work in that manner divergent thinking first, then convergent thinking. What happens is you allow that creativity to come out right, those wild and crazy ideas. And if you're working in a group, what also happens? You're now building trust, you've made it safe to share ideas.
Speaker 2:So that's really what I've I've applied in parenting. So my son I I travel a lot for work and he came up to me one day about six months ago and he's like mama, like you know, when I was a baby, you were here all the time and I loved it. He's like and then I was really proud of you because your work started getting busier and so you would travel like once a month or once every other month. I was really proud of you and happy for you. And he's like but now you travel too much, you're like gone. He's like you're gone like 11 days out of the month and I'm only 11.
Speaker 2:That's a big part of my life and, honestly, like if I practice the type of parenting that I was raised with, it would have been, you know, like if I've been like, thanks for your opinion, but someone's got to pay the bills. But since I practice what I preach, I was like okay, well, let's take his. Let's consider his challenges and let's consider his ideas. And what that opened up for me was I created an eight-week online leadership development program, which launches February 12th, that I can do virtually Right, I've been doing more local.
Speaker 2:I was like, because they opened my eyes to things I wasn't doing, like I live in Los Angeles, like in the heart of Los Angeles. I'm like I have no business here. I have business in Boston and Philly and San Diego, san Francisco, like I have no business in los angeles. So, open up my, my perspective like, oh, I can go do more local marketing. Um, so yeah, so I don't even know where that question was, but yeah, I do apply a lot of these tools in how how I'm raising him yeah, and do you find that it's now that you're moving towards a virtual space?
Speaker 1:do you find it's easier or do you find that it's now that you're moving towards a virtual space? Do you find it's easier or do you find it's going to be a challenge? Cause it's, it's almost, I would imagine it's easier to challenge somebody's like, like, desire to not participate, or somebody that's completely that not wanting to think they're creative. It's kind of hard to like turn a, you know, turn your back on somebody when they're physically in front of you and offer you these tools. Do you find it's going to be challenging? Moving to that online platform?
Speaker 2:if I had never done it before I would, but because of the pandemic I learned to do this virtually. Right, so it, so it's. And I said back then like if you're a facilitator and you just try to take what you've done in person and do it here, it's not going to work. Right, you have to find ways to get people engaged virtually. And I had, like I think I had like a one up on people because of the creativity so I have and for this cohort I will be sending out these creativity kits, right, so they literally get a creativity kit that says do not open until we start. So once we start-.
Speaker 1:I would 100% open that.
Speaker 2:If there's Legos in there, I'd open that I know you do like exacto knife and then tape it back up. So so it's. It's very like the way we teach virtually is still very hands-on, tactile, lots of activities so that people are engaged in in the learning yeah and if for our audience listening.
Speaker 1:How do we start if? And I and I'm asking this because I met so many individuals that I can now say, like probably my friends on the on the spectrum that's neither here nor there, like that say that they're, they don't have imagination, they're not creative, they're rigidly like by the book, they don't show any sort of like creative bones in their body. How do we start firing those pistons?
Speaker 2:So this is why, like frameworks and tools are important, because you and I find this, like individually and with corporations and companies I work with like people are like be creative, be innovative. Like as I'm, like I have no idea how to do that, where do I start? So look for tools, look for, look for frameworks that you can use to be creative. So I'm just going to share a couple tools right now with you that are very easy to use. So let's say you're trying to vet a problem, right A challenge, overcome a challenge, vet an opportunity, rather than trying to sit there by yourself or with your team and and throw around ideas, just thinking.
Speaker 2:Think about ideas. Throw out some images on, like anything like, look like just like you know, tear out some magazine pictures and put it on the table and say, okay, look at these images, what characteristics of these images remind us of the core root of the problem? Right, and then get people to share and then switch it and say, okay, now what? Looking at the characteristics of these images, what, what characteristics might help us solve the challenge? And so get people to think creatively in that way, but giving them a tool to do so. Another one that I really love is called the Worst.
Speaker 1:Idea Ever.
Speaker 2:I love the name and I like this one because what it allows people to do is get playful and creative about a problem. And I also like to say that you know people are like, oh well, this is a really serious challenge, like we have to really face it seriously. I'm like, no, you need to. The more serious it is, you probably should use some creativity and some play towards it. So the worst idea ever is you have a challenge you're trying to solve and you ask yourself or the people around you what is the worst idea you can think of to solve this problem? Right, what's the worst idea? It's amazing how much fun people have with this, and just let them have fun.
Speaker 1:That's immediately where my head went. It immediately went to something funny.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and that's what people do, and sometimes dark but funny. And then you ask the opposite. Okay, so let's take this one worse idea. What's the opposite of that worst idea that might help us solve for this challenge? Right, so you allow people to have fun first and then get serious about it, using what you came up with, again in a group dynamic. What that does? It allows people like me because I consider to talk to you clearly all day long. Um, I'm in a meeting and my c, like a ceo's, like, okay, here's our challenge. Who has an idea to solve this very serious challenge? You are not hearing from me because it's too serious and I feel like I'm gonna say the wrong thing and look bad and I don't want to share. But if he says, okay, what's the worst idea we could we come up with, each of us come up with, to solve for this, you're going to hear from me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it allows for everybody to chime in because you're right and it happens all the time. There's so many parallels and so many connections to the way we do mission planning, because we do have you throw out that one idea that's really crazy and that gets put on the board. You do throw out a really weird, wacky, crazy one just to get it on the board, and then half the team creates this idea, and then half the team creates this idea, and maybe you do take some of the concepts from the crazies. There are so many ways that this ties back into what we do in the military. And one important thing is nobody wants to chime in, nobody. When the problem gets presented, everybody retreats inward, like, especially if you're not part of the leadership, because you don't want to sound like you're dumb, like you're not informed. So everybody's like oh no, dude, throw the crazy stuff out there first, let everybody participate, and then you're opening it up for everybody to feel like they have a voice.
Speaker 2:That is so powerful. Yeah, yes, there's a saying, and it's like I don't really like this thing. I don't even know where it came from, but it paints a picture, right, like the idea, and the saying is it's easier to tame a lion than put wings back on a butterfly, right? So this idea of, like, you know, take these wild and crazy ideas, start there and then tame it into something you can move forward with, versus like, starting with a small idea and then trying to make something beautiful of it, um, it's harder to come to take those practical ideas and make them into something different and meaningful and impactful. It's easier I mean, it's easier in a sense, but it takes a little more time to be like okay, what are these wild ideas we can come up with? Right, and now let's use that convergent thing to really narrow it down, to make it practical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's almost again. That speaks back to like being able to give everybody in your organization, in your team, the ability to contribute, because there's so many people that they do have I met some of the most just, manliest, toughest dudes, but you give them the ability to chime in, it's like nope, I don't want to talk in front of everybody, I don't want my idea to be the bad one, but if we want to learn more about these concepts, where should we go?
Speaker 2:So you can go to my website worksmartadvantagecom, and if you follow me on LinkedIn, I'm there posting something every day. Let me see where else there's some on my YouTube channel. I also post my YouTube channel Work Smart Advantage. So there's some tools and techniques I share there as well.
Speaker 1:Nice. What about a book? What about when?
Speaker 2:are we? Oh, thank you, I'm triggered about that. Yes, yes, Can you give me a book? Well, I got you a book, denny. I wrote this book this year. It's called what a Piece of Fly A Practical Guide to Follow your Curiosities, to Achieve Impractical Possibilities.
Speaker 2:And in the book I do share number one. So I talk about this in the lens of curiosity. I think that's really good for a transition too, right? So when we are in a transition, really to pause and pay attention to those curiosities, those ideas that tap us on the shoulder, and not say no to ourselves. Right, because there's a military transition, any way in transition, I find for myself even like, oh, here's an idea I want to move forward with tap, tap, tap. And I'm like, oh, but let me go continue to do this. Right, let me continue to do whatever I'm doing because I'm avoiding it, I'm avoiding this idea.
Speaker 2:So this book talks about a framework to follow your curiosities. One, pause and pay attention to your curiosities, those ideas that tap you on the shoulder. Secondly, ask powerful questions like what, if? How might I? How might I follow that curiosity using that divergent thinking me? Um, you know, I, I think I want to move to a farm and have miniature cows, like you know. Like, is that gonna happen today? No, but how might I? How might I do this? So, really like, and allowing myself to use that diversion, like, oh well, maybe I'll. Um, I'll see if any of my friends want to do this. Oh, maybe I'll, I'll rent a farm for a month once a year for the next eight years and see where I want to live, right? So, rather than just saying that's a stupid idea, you're never going to be able to do that, try, like, asking what, if and how. My questions allows you to say yes to yourself. And then the last step is really, just take that one small step.
Speaker 2:I think, as human beings, we think way too far ahead, and when we do that, especially when it comes to these big goals, we think too far ahead. And when we do that, especially when it comes to these big goals, we think too far ahead. What ends up happening is our amygdala says you know, like you're not going to do that fight or flight and I'm going to say no to that. So it doesn't allow us to, to, to take the steps we need. So that's why I talk about you know, if you come up with these ideas, ask your word of questions, come up with one small step that you can move forward with. And maybe it's like the woo, woo Southern California in me, but like, but I also and we've talked about it I firmly believe, like you take that commitment and make that small step. You just watch right, you see what doors open up for you.
Speaker 1:It's so true, and nobody can remove the fear of pivoting into a new space from you. And I have to tell you I'm willing to bet on you guys, whoever's listening, veteran first responder hell, if you're still in and you got quite a ways newport cal, you're full of shit. Bet on yourself, bet on your dream, go big. You spent a vast majority of your career being of service to our nation, doing something that few people want to do, and few people have the guts to come up to that line, to sign their their name on there and serve. So when you're getting ready to transition, please take a moment, take a knee, figure out what you want to do in life. Ask yourself those serious questions, be willing to play, be creative with it. What would my life look like if I went through this route? What if I went on this route? At some point you will have to take that leap. Be willing to bet on yourself.
Speaker 1:I believe in you. I haven't even met you and, if you're listening, I believe in you and I know-.
Speaker 2:I believe in you too.
Speaker 1:See, you got two of us. You got two of us right now.
Speaker 2:I do have to chime in here because I do deal with this with a lot, with the fellows I work with at the Honor Foundation For these men and women to sit in front of me and tell me that, remember, the transition is the hardest thing they've ever been through, and then also not knowing that they have value in the civilian world, I'm like, what are you even talking about? Right, it's this idea of being able to see yourselves through the eyes of other people. It's so important at that time because it is like you, don't you? And I understand why they feel that way, because all they've known is military service. All they've known is what they've done in the military is like, ok, how can I bring, how can I be of value in the civilian world? But we see it, I absolutely see it. So, yeah, there is, we see it, like, I absolutely see it. Um, so yeah, there was. There's this one gentleman that I worked with in the honor foundation he had. He was he's I won't name names, but I probably could but he got hired by one of my clients in a profession that he never. I'm just gonna name them because they were an organization called C3 Risk and Insurance. They're an insurance brokerage. Their motto is we do things differently and we like it that way, so they offer to become, they offer to be one of the companies that the Arm Foundation visits when they do their treks, when the fellows go and visit companies. So I recall this because when the trek happened I heard from, because when the trek happened, I heard from some of the fellows we're like really An insurance company, you're really going to take us to an insurance company. They were not happy about it, but after they visited C3, I think five or six of these fellows were like I want to be an insurance broker. And they ended up hiring one of these guys and his name is Ryan.
Speaker 2:I just saw him at a holiday party the other day. He was in this suit that was green. I think it was all Christmas trees, colorful. He's all bearded, like you are. I thought to myself and when I talked to him about it, I'm like was this? He's really out there, right, like he's, like he's, he's bright and shiny, living his best life. And I thought I'm like so have you all? Were you like this in the military? He's like absolutely not. No, not one, not at all. He's like. But I will never go back to that right like it served me for what I need to do in the military. But now I'm gonna be just me and you can take it or you can leave it absolutely.
Speaker 1:It was just like that post uh on linkedin that you shared um, you don't have to go the rest of your life believing that the best years or the best version of you was the version of you that was in uniform. Oh, you still have all those great attributes.
Speaker 1:They're, they're you yes now move on with your life. Use that as a stepping stone into your next great chapter. Your book is not just one chapter, it's not just your service. It's filled with many ups and downs yet to be seen and yet to be celebrated. So move boldly into that next chapter and be willing to say like hey, before I was this and all the great things I'm. I'm bringing them with me too. Now I can grow out my hair, I can grow out my beard, I can do all those things and I can get engaged in play and not feel self-conscious about it.
Speaker 2:You know that that that transition, that first transition, is just a first transition. Yep, right, you like, just take that first step, take that first transition and see where it gets you next. It's not because I know a lot of people leaving the military. There's been like, okay, my career has been 20 years in the military, so what's my next 20 years going to look like? Yeah, noticing about what your first for your first thing is going to look like. Noticing about what your first thing is going to look like, because that can and probably will lead to something else.
Speaker 2:One thing that I share. I'm not going to remember the name of the general who said this, but years ago I was on a virtual. It was a toast to veterans. I think it was Veterans Day and a general came on and it was for the Honor Foundation and he said you know, he said to all the veterans on there he said you've done your service, now find something that brings you joy. And I think that's such a strong statement. You should definitely be finding something that brings you joy. Yes, right After your years of service.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. That's ultimately that right there, that perfect statement Joy. It's not about suffering or gritting through something that's. I want no part of that in my life. If I go to do something as my livelihood, I don't want to walk into that front door and be miserable for the next 20 years and have your family greet you at the door like oh man, dad's having a rough day. You can have good days or bad days, but I don't want that to be the constant in my life because I hate what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:Right, and you find it through creativity and curiosity. You find that joy by asking yourself what else Like, what else can I be doing? How might I bring some of my skills, my strengths, to something that brings me joy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it can be completely out of your wheelhouse. That's a beautiful thing. You don't have to feel like You're never going to find a job. That translates exactly to what you were doing in the military, especially if you were infantry or special operations. Very rarely I'm like what was your job? I was infantry, oh great, go down the street to infantry plus, like that's not the reality. You will be doing something that's different. But remember, life's about change, life's about learning, life's about continued growth, beginner's mind. You take nothing away from today. Take this the importance and power of play, creativity and beginner's mind. Be willing to learn something new again. Uh von, I can't thank you enough for being here today and sharing this.
Speaker 1:it's been an absolute blast, uh and and again, like it's just remarkable the way life works and the way things, because I never thought in a million years I'd be able to hold space with, uh, you know, and somebody that shares and and we don't have to go into it, but it's just awesome being able to connect with you and to have that common bond and experience that that is a crazy, crazy life that started somewhere abroad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, I think of like this idea, like curiosity is the most powerful thing we own and it is like someone got curious, introduced us. Our families came from this country. I mean, maybe not necessarily through curiosity, but all the things that had to happen to get us here is pretty incredible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome. And to everybody listening. Thank you for tuning in. Please do me a favor, go to our social media, go to YouTube Like, share, subscribe and head on over to securityhaltcom, where you can get some new merch. I just dropped some new shirts, so please support the show, help us grow and take care of yourselves. And because this will be dropping before Christmas, merry Christmas.
Speaker 2:Merry Christmas, everyone. Take care Bye.
Speaker 1:If you like what we're doing and you enjoying the show, don't forget to share us. Like us, subscribe.
