Security Halt!
Welcome to Security Halt! Podcast, the show dedicated to Veterans, Active Duty Service Members, and First Responders. Hosted by retired Green Beret Deny Caballero, this podcast dives deep into the stories of resilience, triumph, and the unique challenges faced by those who serve.
Through powerful interviews and candid discussions, Security Halt! Podcast highlights vital resources, celebrates success stories, and offers actionable tools to navigate mental health, career transitions, and personal growth.
Join us as we stand shoulder-to-shoulder, proving that even after the mission changes, the call to serve and thrive never ends.
Security Halt!
#243 From Military Life to Outdoor Healing: Ryan 'Koup' Kuperus’ Journey
In this thought-provoking episode of Security Halt!, host Deny Caballero sits down with Ryan "Koup" Kuperus, an outdoorsman, veteran, and advocate for mental health. Together, they dive into the challenges of military life, the transition to civilian careers, and the importance of finding balance and meaning beyond deployment.
Koup shares his inspiring journey from farm life to military service and his discovery of the healing power of nature. Through organizations like The Reason Outdoors, Koup helps veterans and first responders reconnect with themselves and their community by teaching outdoor skills and fostering camaraderie.
This episode highlights the transformative role of eco-therapy, outdoor experiences, and nonprofit organizations in promoting mental health. From tackling the challenges of leadership accountability to navigating social media’s impact on military culture, Koup’s raw and honest insights provide hope and guidance for veterans seeking purpose and healing.
Tune in on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts, and be sure to like, share, follow, and subscribe to help spread this impactful conversation!
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Chapters
00:00 Navigating Technology in Military Briefings
01:44 The Importance of Outdoor Experiences for Veterans
02:33 Personal Journeys: From Farming to Military Service
06:40 Parental Expectations and Defining Success
09:36 Redefining Success Beyond Military Metrics
13:12 The Reality of Military Life: Embracing the Suck
18:12 Chasing the Dragon: The Allure of Deployment Experiences
27:19 Military Equipment and Culture
29:01 Leadership Accountability in the Military
31:01 Social Media's Impact on Military Leadership
35:30 Navigating the Toxicity of Online Communities
37:28 Transitioning from Military to Civilian Life
44:00 Court Martial Experience and Its Aftermath
52:11 Applying Military Skills to Civilian Success
55:32 The Value of Hard Work and Money
57:29 From Farm Life to Outdoor Therapy
01:01:01 The Evolution of Hunting Skills
01:05:49 Healing Through Nature and Camaraderie
01:11:57 The Importance of Connection and Community
01:15:07 Teaching New Hunters and Dispelling Myths
01:18:06 Getting Involved with The Reason Outdoors
01:22:19 Supporting Nonprofits and Community Initiatives
Instagram: @securityhalt
Tik Tok: @security.halt.pod
LinkedIn: Deny Caballero
Follow Ryan on LinkedIn, on social media and check out The Reason Outdoors today!
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Website: thereasonoutdoors
https://thereasonoutdoors.org/
Produced by Security Halt Media
security hot podcast. Let's go. You're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best with guns, with knives, with his bare hands, a man who's been trained to ignore, ignore weather to live off. The job was disposed of enemy personnel to kill period with my attrition btc and just been looking at an empty screen wondering like is this fucking thing gonna connect?
Speaker 2:yeah right yeah, either that, or like we just be huddled around a phone that was on speakerphone in the in the car or the ship captain or colonel stateroom or something like that, trying to listen to a briefing, ten different people calling in from different parts of the country and world, and you're like dude, what's going on right now?
Speaker 1:None of this fucking works people. Can we just go back to briefing off paper on a whiteboard?
Speaker 2:Please, please, for the love of God. It's like hang on, get the comm guys, because we love of God. It's like hang on, hang on, get the calm guys, because we lost the link One second here.
Speaker 1:That's always the voice for every frigging nerd.
Speaker 2:Some fucking dweeb right. It's like, sir, hang on a second here. And he can't fix it himself, he's got to go call his cronies you know a second here and he can't fix it himself.
Speaker 1:He's gotta go call his cronies. You know, if you're listening and you're an s6 uh individual, especially an officer, I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry we appreciate you don't get me wrong, right, but in the moment you caused us a lot of angst.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We've got to check out the router. Something's going on with it, of course. Of course, ryan Kupka-Parris. Welcome man, how you doing.
Speaker 2:Doing good. How about you?
Speaker 1:Doing well, man. It's a pleasure to have you here. Man, Talk about an amazing nonprofit. You got going on the Reason Outdoors. We put a lot of emphasis on conventional modalities and they do work. They're important. I'm not trying to minimize the impact they have on our veteran first responder and active duty communities, but we have to understand that there are multiple approaches to getting someone back from the void, back from the brink. And getting outdoors to experience the awe of nature and getting involved in hunting is absolutely a valid resource and we have to be able to uplift and promote everybody that's out there in this fight. And what you guys are doing is frigging awesome, man. So I'm glad to have you here today to talk about this program. But first, dude, we got to talk about you. We got to talk about your experience. Like we, we often think that everybody has the same cookie cutter walk into the military, but everybody has their own journey and I want to kind of dive into that. How do you find yourself as a young man in service?
Speaker 2:um, honestly, for me, uh like, join the military or farm? Uh, honestly, I didn't take school seriously enough to um to, uh, you know, go to college, and I knew that if I went to college I would just party and fail out. Most likely so it was it was farm or go in the military, and that really sounds like there was only two options. But I just wasn't going to put in the other effort to do school any longer because I could not stay in school, yeah, yeah. So my dad asked me if I wanted to go into business with him, probably my junior year of high school, oh, wow.
Speaker 2:And I told him no, um, because what I wanted to do on the farm would have required a lot of money and a lot of work, and you know being I grew up on a dairy farm, you know so that's one of the hardest uh farms to run. You know, we milk cows at 4 30 in the morning, 4 30 at night and night and I would have been shackled to that farm. It's a tough way. It's a rewarding way to live life. Obviously, farmers are one of the more underappreciated professions in our country right now. But I needed to do other things in life before I was shackled to that farm. You know what I mean. So my decision was pretty clear Joined the military.
Speaker 1:How did dad take it?
Speaker 2:Oh, he was actually pretty okay with it. Both my parents are very successful in what they do now. I think then it may have been a relief for them. I've never really asked them. Maybe I need to do that when I go home for Christmas. Like you know what was his initial thoughts. I've really never asked that, but I almost feel like there was a bit of like relief there. You know what I mean. You know being on the farm, being a farmer, you just get kicked in the teeth repeatedly. You know whether that's. You know bills. The milk price you know the milk price even right now is lower than it was in the 70s.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Dude, I have a buddy, a Navy SEAL. His friend's a farmer and he asked him hey, come help me for a season. And after that season we were talking. He's like dude, I've done difficult things. I've done hard things in my life. Going to farm with my brother for a season. Like my great Navy SEAL brother, we've both done hard things. That was a fucking kick in the guts because they harvested, they did everything, they worked their hands to the bone and then when it comes time to reap your reward, you go in.
Speaker 2:They're like sorry boys wheat and why is the bank account still in the negative? Yeah, the hell's going on here exactly.
Speaker 1:You know they're like dude uh, wheat prices are actually the lowest I've ever been, so here's two nickels right, right, exactly, it's a, it's a.
Speaker 2:You know, it doesn't matter what kind of farm you're running, it is a it's. It's a hard way to make a, to earn a living. You know what I mean. And, like I said, some of the most underappreciated, the most. Because he's like all right, I guess we can start moving on. He's a vice president at a big road construction firm right now, so he's done very well for himself, so I don't think he has any complaints at this point this point, you know, but you have to imagine he probably wants his son to have that an adventure.
Speaker 1:Go off experience life. I mean, there's nothing wrong staying in and, uh god knows, we need farmers, we need people that are willing to pick up that job. But at the same time, when you're a young man about to embark on great adventure, like that's got to be a big moment for a father to say like, yeah, go out there, seek your own, go after it yeah, 100.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, uh, I have a son who's 22 and you know, I tell him like, hey, you have to make your own way in the world. Um, I haven't really given him any expectations as a man as to what he should do, you know. But I told him like, hey, you have to make your own way in this world. I think that's what any dad really wants is for their kids to make their own way. You know whether you know whether that was me farming with him, right? Or join the military. You know what I want for my son, right, for him to make his own way as a man. You know, and, uh, you know, people's measure of success, right, I think. I think some people's measure of success, I think some people's metrics are a little skewed. But my son, he's an arbor, he's going to school at night for automotive tech. He restored a 1988 Honda Civic EX from a rust bucket to what he considers to be a high-performance machine, ex from a rust bucket to what he considers to be a high performance machine.
Speaker 2:You know, he thinks he's Dominic Toretto from Fast and Furious, even though he's not too fast, he's not too furious, but don't tell him that you know. No, you know. But he's finding his passions and what he enjoys to do. I think that's you know. As a dad, it's all you can want for your son and kids is to for them to make their own way in the world and what their metric of success is, you know. For, as a parent, to for us to accept that you know you know our daughter wants to be a nurse, right, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:She's going to school for that, you know. So, every you know I think a lot of parents are like, oh, my kid's got to be a doctor or a lawyer or this or that, right, if that's your metric of success, right and you're, you might be set in the bar. Maybe you didn't get buy-in from your kids on what their metric of success is right and um, you know you got to temper of success is right and um, you know you gotta temper your goal. You know your goals for your kids and in talking with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, like exactly man, like, what is success? What do we equate to being successful? Because some of the people that I've met that have those high, achieving, high earning, friggin jobs are stressed the fuck out. They've dealt with addiction, they've lost families. Like, is that success? Fuck? I beg to differ.
Speaker 1:I've met people that stayed humble in life and sought building a family, being a father, being a provider, being of service within their community. They're not crushing it into financial gains. They're working every day and figuring out ways to stretch every dollar. But that's successful Families together, kids are happy, wives happy, they're thriving. To me that seems like success. But in the military, I think we fall by the ways that we have. We tend to experience this amazing journey that has been the GWAT and if we're not careful, that quickly becomes like our metric for success. Well, we got to stay in, we got to keep going for the next appointment, the next appointment. And in your service, did you find yourself tempted by that? As a young service member, did you find yourself getting attached to the idea of like, fuck, this is the highest calling. I need to be a warrior forever.
Speaker 2:Oh, man, you know. So I did my first four years in the marine corps and I actually got out. Um, no shit, the college, yeah, played lacrosse to the reserves. Um, I actually put in a package, an x-ray package with the army no way, yes, and they didn't want to give me a bonus because I was prior service.
Speaker 2:So like I was gonna get to keep my rank um, right and um, but they wouldn't give me a bonus because I was prior service. So like I was gonna get to keep my rank um, right and um, but they wouldn't give me a bonus because I was prior service. I told them to go shove it up their ass. You know in hindsight, dude in hindsight was dumb.
Speaker 2:That was dumb, bro. Dumb. You know, like I would have been. Like I probably would have been an e7 in like 18 months. You know what I mean. Like every sf guy you ever like, I don't even think they have a rank below E7 in.
Speaker 2:SF, you know. So, hindsight being what, it is right Like, yeah, you didn't want to give me a bonus, so I was like, yeah, you know that. And then I end up going like I was doing the reserves at the time and then I end up going back in the Marine Corps which like, hello, if I went to recon. I smartened up and went to recon, right Recon, force recon.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Right, but if I had gone to SF I'd made a hell of a lot more money, Right, Just you know. Like hello, but you know, I mean that's the jarhead in me, right there. You know what I mean. Like good, you don't want to give me a bonus? I'll show you. I'll go back to the Marine Corps. How do you like me now?
Speaker 1:I'll suffer for more and for less money.
Speaker 2:Yes, 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1:Oh man.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you know I'm glad that I got out and came back in. It's my first enlistment. You know I was in the grunts and you know you have great good commands, bad commands, a little bit of both of those and I almost, I almost. Well, I was about to go take a screener for my first deployment, go to recon, and they're like, oh, you have to extend. I'm like absolutely not doing that, right, not doing that.
Speaker 1:Immediately, no immediately. Yeah, no, right Like sniper, sniper in doc.
Speaker 2:Right, they're like, oh, you have to extend. I'm like, absolutely not. Right, so I was like I will just be a squad leader in the in two six golf company third platoon. Right, everything's to be good from there, you know. And then like, not oddly enough, just my luck, how it goes.
Speaker 2:Like every one of my buddies, like that, screened for snipers or went over to recon, right, none of them had to extend because the invasion ended up happening. Right, like a bunch of the dudes that were in the sniper platoon in 2.6, they were in the last phase of sniper school and they graduated them early so we could deploy. Right, so I'm likeimmy for, like you know what, none of them had to extend, right, not like I'm like dude. I'm like, well, you know, hello, that you know. All. Right, not the smartest move, but whatever, you know, I was bothering us to be a drill instructor, which I'm glad I didn't do, that you know.
Speaker 2:Um, but that that period of time that I was out, I mean I had a good time in college, played lacrosse, did very well, um, but when I came back on active duty, it gave me the opportunity more to think of it, instead of a contract as my job, right, um, and I I think it's like a lot of first term service members fail, yeah, um, because, right, you know the service members fail, yeah, because, right, you know the guys are like counting down the time, right, they're like so true man.
Speaker 2:What I got? Two years left, man, I'm out 24 months, 12 hours, 37 minutes and 15, 14 seconds. Right, they're like counting it down, right To the like. Things are set on their phones and their watches.
Speaker 1:Right set on their phones and their watches right now. When you do that, it makes your time miserable. When you do that, it's like prison man. Yeah, it's the same prison mentality like I saw that in a few disgruntled and it's always within the e4 mafia. Shout out to you oh, I love you guys, but you have to understand like, earn this, you know, work, work hard and earn the mentality of it's a profession. It's all it's. It's a true professional soldier, military, like you have to understand that you're a professional. Don't just hate it, don't just wake up and be disgruntled counting down the days.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you volunteered to do it right. And you know what. It doesn't matter what you do, it's gonna suck, whether you're an admin guy, a grunt, a soft guy. Don't think they'll. You know that. You know like recon or soft guys, like they do get better gear, better training, whatever. But don't think it doesn't suck there too, because most of the time it sucks right. But like you know what, just embrace it. You know, because what else are you gonna do right? Exactly like you know you're gonna bitch it. You know, because what else are you going to do right? Exactly Like you know you're going to bitch and whine about it. And then you know, inevitably right. All these guys who are like I hate it. I hate it right. These are the dudes at the VFW, right with their hats on right, and they're like best four years of my life. Take me back Right.
Speaker 2:Dude where, take me back right like dude. Yes, where's you, the guy who's counting down you?
Speaker 1:you had a countdown with three years left in your contract. You threatened to shoot yourself in the leg yeah, two minutes of deployment. That's how it really happened, right, but now you're.
Speaker 2:Now you're gung ho man, you're the, you're the, you're the. That was the best time of your life. You know what I mean. Yeah, um, but yeah, you know, when you treat it, you're like, look, it doesn't matter if you're getting up at 3 am and not going to bed till you know 24 hours later. What have you right? Guess what? Inevitably your day ends right, you go home, right, and you come back to work the next day, whether your home is the barracks or your home is a house out in town. You know like. You treat it like a job. It helps you kind of get more of that professional. Yes, soldier, marine, you know mentality. I feel like um, and, and you've got to be able to compartmentalize a little bit and leave your, leave your shit on base. And you know, just right, leave it, leave the bag, leave the baggage on base. And you know, just leave it, leave the bag, leave the baggage on base, cause, guess what? It's still gonna be there. We go back to work tomorrow morning.
Speaker 1:So the guys that were they and it's it's something that you we have to continuously talk about and promote. Be willing to separate and divorce that mentality. Leave work at work, whether you're in the military, whether you're in a civilian field, whatever you're doing, like, don't take that shit with you home, don't bring work home. I know tons of guys like I'll work on this counseling. I'm like don't, don't, don't do it here. Yeah, do here. Do what you need to do at work. Don't take anything to the house, and that doesn't mean stay later, because those are like the worst fucking leaders too. Oh dude, the guys were there until 10 o'clock at night.
Speaker 2:They hate going home. Yeah, I tell guys all the time, it doesn't matter what their rank is, I still do some contract work a couple times a year and teach some young soft guys some conventional warfare and whatnot and mentor them Not really teach and mentor them, I guess, but I'm like hey, like hey, look, there's nothing that happens after 16 30, right, that can't wait till tomorrow, right, 1700, if you're still working five o'clock at night, 1700, right, three civilian types out there, if you are still work right at five o'clock, you're wrong, because there's nothing that you are gonna do that one hasn't already been done. Like what are you doing? A brief for jump ops, guess what you can find. There's nothing that you are going to do that one hasn't already been done. Like what are you doing? A brief for jump ops? Guess what you can find. There's a million of those briefs all over the share drive.
Speaker 1:Like you don't need to reinvent that I drive. Never reinvent the wheel, dog yeah right.
Speaker 2:Swap some logos, right. Change some dates L's, d's, whatever right, bam you're. Whatever right, bam, you're good. But if you're still at work at 1700 and you haven't cracked a beer or you're not on your way out the door, go home. Nothing that you're going to do is It'll be there tomorrow, right, I mean, the military is nothing if not ineffective, right, it's still going to be there. The same issues are going to be there tomorrow. And guess what? What? Next year, at the same time, the same issues are gonna pop back up. Don't lose your mind over it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know dude, so yeah, no those are the worst leaders, right like?
Speaker 2:they're there till 10 o'clock at night. They're back there at fourth during the mornings, like did you sleep in your office? Yeah, what are you doing?
Speaker 1:so what I found and this is especially true in SF you have guys that maybe they're not the brightest or best dudes so they operate on thematics. They'll stay late because if I'm the last one leaving the parking lot, sergeant Major will see me leaving late and he'll think I'm a good leader. And it's like dog. You're still a piece of shit oh, dude for sure, for sure, you still suck now.
Speaker 2:You just now, you just suck and you stay late. You know what I mean right like, like, more likely, the sergeant major right, or like the master guns, the ops chiefs, like I wonder what that turd was doing staying here this late, you know no mind me, just uh, just being the last one leaving, ah yeah putting so much extra work in yeah right, more and more likely they fucked something up too before they left, right exactly like everybody's covering down on them on the b team yeah, exactly like, more than likely like you.
Speaker 2:You boogered up on the briefs. I just finished and now tomorrow morning I have to unfuck, it right?
Speaker 1:thanks for that oh, man, dude, it's it. It's these stories that people don't hear about. Like it's great to talk about the, the combat, the, the situations individuals find themselves, but this is like the reality of the nine to five.
Speaker 2:Not every day are you going to have a medal of honor or a silver star day some days it's just going through the work 90 as a 90 of your career is just going to be a suck fest of some sort. Right like whether it's standing in line somewhere. Right like it's like newsflash there too, don't matter what unit you're in. Right like tier one to tier 10. Right like dude, you're gonna wait around in line somewhere. Right like you're gonna have to deal with bullshit. Right like it's 90 suck fest with like 10 of like the most high adrenaline, kick-ass, freaking. You know uh, uh stuff that you've ever you've ever done right. Then then you end up find yourself chasing the dragon. That's kind of you know what uh stuff that you've ever you've ever done right. Then then you end up find yourself chasing the dragon. That's kind of you know what you're alluding to.
Speaker 2:So what a good buddy of mine. We're talking about it, probably like six months ago. Um, you know he's like I, I, he just had his first kid. You know him and his wife were supposed to have kids, right, he's like, oh, look, I, you know I had a son right. And then so he moved out of the unit he was at, went to a schoolhouse. I was like, dude, have you lost your mind? Right like what is wrong with you? Like literally the year before he told the board he didn't want to be promoted, he just wanted to stay there until he retired. Then he's like you know, I had a, I had a kid and I realized I need to stop chasing the dragon.
Speaker 2:Yep, you know, and, and and that's literally what it is. You know, I think you know, a lot of guys have a deployment, um, that kind of defines them and their and and their career and kind of who they are as a operator or as a as a war fighter. You know, and, um, I think you can, you can get sucked into chasing that real quick. You know, like every deployment after that you know, especially as we've seen, you know, from 9-11 until now, right, for guys who were in when it was hot and heavy, right, like every deployment after that, one benchmark deployment right was a disappointment, exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:And then for the new guys right for the new guys. It's like all right, cool, we just got our first firefight right. Some dude that you've never even thought would ever smoke. He's like give me a cigarette right. It's a high Down off the wall by his head.
Speaker 1:And he's like oh my.
Speaker 2:God Right. But you're like, yeah, that was as bad as last deployment, you know. And then those guys are like, wait a minute, he's saying that wasn't that bad. I almost got my head blown off over here, you know, like what? Like what was bad? Then you know, what I mean.
Speaker 2:And then so those guys are chasing that benchmark deployment and they're like dude, you're like it wasn't, it was, this is not as bad as it was in that that one deployment, you know. And then the new guys are like well, shit, I thought that was pretty bad. You know what I mean. And it's like you, just you go chasing that dragon, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Did you find yourself in that mentality?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, you know, I would say for a yeah, for a period of time, yes, and no um, because I saw what that did to a couple of my friends. You know what I mean, and they're like, when we did this, when we did this, right, and uh, when we're in fallujah, when we're in fallujah, and you know, it's like okay, well, you know, there's a lot of things that we learned from that deployment. Right, like, hey, we've changed tactics. Right, uh, we've evolved. You know, uh, these TTPs. Right For what's going on now.
Speaker 2:And uh, you know, uh, my 2009 deployment in Afghanistan. That was definitely one of those benchmark deployments. Uh, for us, cause we did a, we did reconnaissanceissance and surveillance, like in a traditional role for an infantry battalion, for 90 of that deployment and um, we, a lot of the ttps we used, we end up implementing in uh courses later on, um and I, it would have been very easy to use that deployment as that benchmark. Yeah, right, but then it, hey, this is what we did, right, uh, we put these TTPs into, you know, urban reconnaissance and surveillance courses and this course in that course and um, but what TTPs are going on in country now? Right, and what, what operational environment you're in, right, like the Philippines are require different TTPs in Afghanistan or Iraq or Syria or here or there, you know, and so it's.
Speaker 2:You get like you can find yourself in that mentality real quick. But to be an effective leader, right, you got to continue to think outside of the box and adapt yourself to your next environment. And then for your you, you know, for your new guys, right, if you're always talking about how bad and hard it was, right, like, at least, at least be like you know what. This is fucking awesome right now and I really enjoy, you know, not having to. You know like I enjoy having a shower every day, right, not busting my hump, right, like give, like mentor them as to why that deployment you know is, is the way that it is, and you know how good they've got it or not, how good you know it's. Good deployment turns into a shit deployment real quick and it's.
Speaker 1:It's important to understand that our deployments were just a snapshot in time, man, it's constantly evolving. Like, yeah, afghanistan and iraq are no longer relevant. The moment that failed fucking pullout happened, it was like that's it, you're not. Yeah, drone warfare, baby. Like you don't fucking matter, dog. But then how many new guys came in that team room and they wanted that experience? And then you got a lot of guys that are just being fucking, just shitheads, putting be like hey, you missed out. It's like, no, these motherfuckers didn't miss out on shit. Their war is coming. Their opportunity to stand on the line and and have their fucking g-wad 2.0, that's god forbid, but someday they're gonna be called upon. They still gotta have that feeling that they're worthy, that they will have their moment in time, and that shit on everybody's experience and that's something that I hear a lot of this these days it's like fuck, do you like? I love what the afghan guys did, but fuck like, can you not hold that over our heads forever?
Speaker 2:yeah you know it, it kind of it. Kind of like I and I've said this before I mean the war uh made people lazy. Yeah, honestly, you know, uh, and it, the military now is not like I went in in 2000, right, uh, pre-911, and the military now is not what it was pre-911. Um, there's a lot of things that are that have uh evolved, that are really good. Right, like, look at the, look at the technology that we have. You know like I went to the invasion with m16a2 with iron sights and like two pairs of night vision goggles for my entire squad. Right like, my first deployment I had a freaking mag light hose clamp to my m16a2. That's what I was like room clearing with, like doing pirate ship takedowns and shit you know like, but and I thought I was high speed, you know and now like if I, if I did that, people would like laugh me out of like every establishment ever. You know I was like what the hell are you doing? Retro, I could just see.
Speaker 1:This needs to happen. Someone, Someone needs to call Garrett thumb and be like hey, you need to do a realistic Marine Corps invasion of Iraq Shoot video with an M 16, a two with a mag light on the front.
Speaker 2:Great green fricking mop suit and green body armor in the middle of desert, my fricking, my, my front sappy right Kind of crack in it down the middle Right, I'm like man, man, hopefully if I get shot it's like right here or right here, not so much right here, you know, and then I got you.
Speaker 1:Better have it in you know, don't worry, marine, this equipment will protect you yeah, zig, zig and zag, they'll never hit you.
Speaker 2:I promise I'm. I'm 6'4", 250, right Like I'm a big damn target man.
Speaker 1:And, let's not forget, they issued you small plates.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh please, yes, I'll take those all day Like that big right here. I take it. It protects my heart and a half along right.
Speaker 1:Oh my God.
Speaker 2:Oh man, my heart and a half along right. Oh my god, oh man, no, but you know the the war made the oh made, uh, it really made the military lazy.
Speaker 2:Um, and there I mean anything from as simple as like peace, like and I use this, for example, for guys all the time, right, but I use like pccs and pcis right before you leave the wire. You know, right, pre-combat checks and pre-combat inspections. I'm like, look, that doesn't take the place of initial inspections or final inspections. So pccs and pci, so pccs and pcis, or something like some questions I'm going to ask you before we roll outside the wire where's your tourniquet right, what serialized gear do you have and where's it staged Right? And X, y, z, right, but I've done, there's a whole other process that gets done, uh, before that.
Speaker 2:So, because if you forgot something, guys just have a tendency to like all right, we're about to walk outside the water anyway, so we'll just leave it, we'll get it next time, yeah, you know, and there's just a lot of things and, um, you know, uh, I think that you know we need to. There needs to be a serious culture, change in the military leadership. Leadership needs to go. I mean army, marine Corps, you know these senior right leaders and we use that like super loosely right there, they, they need to go, because they've all turned into politicians and they forget what it's like to be actual leaders.
Speaker 1:You know 100 percent, dude. There's way too many, too many instances of individuals in senior leader positions that are making money and getting kickbacks for tons of things Moving battalions of Marsoc raiders to a specific area in north carolina because you own property yeah, yeah, what the fuck oh, yeah, I mean yeah.
Speaker 2:And then he just, you know, if that was you or I, we'd get, we'd get hung on the cross and we'd be, and we'd be in the, you know, below the brick. Yep, you know, or the stockade, or whatever it's. Everyone else calls it right, but, um, you know, it's happened to a general. Oh, he just quietly retired yeah and no.
Speaker 1:No accountability. No one's held and it's across the board, everywhere. No one's free of it everybody. It's become a culture of self-serving leaders, and it's no longer about taking care of the men and women that sign up and join the military, and that's the thing that we want to feed the force. I want more green braids. I want more paratroopers. I want to be able to tell people to go in. It's a great, great thing to serve in our military Right, but at the same time, how do we, how do we advocate for more people that serve and be in these units when we have leaderships that are that aren't on the five o'clock news headline or alternative media being brought up on charges for all sorts of scandals?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, take the marsop three. Um, you know those guys are friends of mine and you know they wonder why they can't retain. Uh, you know marsop, or you know the marine corps, I mean any branch of service, right, all All recruitment numbers are down, everybody's hurting. Right. They wonder why they can't retain people. And you know, if you look at like the Terminal CWO page right on a daily basis, I mean those guys are doing a great job at blasting people. Oh yeah, sam's doing a great job.
Speaker 2:I mean, I, I can, I loathe, I loathe social media. Um, I mean, it's a very necessary evil, for you know all the things that I do, but what, um, you know, your, your military, like influencers right? Like I've said this before and I'll say it again, like I hope that you were as good at leading your troops and soldiers right as you are at doing your, uh, influencing and content creation, because if you're not going to get the hell off social media and focus on the task at hand, which is, you know, mentoring and training, you know, uh, uh, being a war fighter.
Speaker 1:Dude, I've never, I've never understood it Like you are. You're an officer. Why are you dancing on Tik TOK? Or why are you making funny videos Like like dude I? I will tell you that is one of the most frustrating fucking things. Like you lose all credibility when you're fucking on social media as a senior leader or even a young leader. Like you got shit to do, dog, you got shit to do, and dancing on tiktok is not one of them.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely not. It's not. I'm not saying that troops shouldn't be on social media. I just think that it needs to be tempered. And if you're a leader these days, the one positive is that if you're fucked up, you're going to get called out, and you should. Right Back when we were privates, pfcs, we didn't have that kind of ability to embarrass a leader on that platform.
Speaker 2:Because you can do it anonymously these days, and I think a lot of the social media stuff is coming about because the system of checks and balances is broken. Yeah, right, like, because that's the only way that people have nowadays to get anyone to to be skylined or to even start being held accountable. Yeah, right, if you're, if you're, if you're that sergeant major who's freaking shit is in the street, so to speak, right, and you're freaking. You know, you get you're freaking. You know, you get you're going to be scared, to get blasted on social media. Yeah, right, as you should be. But you know again, you know, then there's a whole, you know people just are on their wine and being because they're freaking. There's a lot of that Right, Right.
Speaker 2:So I mean there's like, there's this like happy medium, I don't. I don't know what it is, but I get super annoyed when I see the influencers and this and that I'm like yo man, there's no, Back in the day, OPSEC was a real thing and there is none of that. None, None, no.
Speaker 2:OPSEC, that's gone, right, yeah, it's gone. It's not like nobody in the world knows what soft guys do. At this point, everybody knows there's no secret, especially after the global war on terror right Zero secrets to what soft guys do, right? So people are like don't put me in a picture, don't do this. I'm like, bro, you have Facebook and Instagram, bro, you're on that, right there. It's like what are you doing? Yeah, but like I mean we? I think the military could definitely do a little bit better job and service members do a little bit better job of maintaining some professionalism. I don't know where that happy medium is, right, I'm not the expert, but it's like, dude, I hope you're a good leader, as you are at being a tiktok star yeah, I mean, thankfully, tiktok will be banned here.
Speaker 1:And actually today, today is the day, the 19th, december, 19th, fuck it. And I got to agree with you, man. One of the most fucking annoying things is having to do social media, because if you have a business, that's the best way to market and show out there and connect. And it's important too, like I realized the importance of connecting and putting stuff out there, because if you have, you're doing something positive, if you're helping people, you got to go out there. But, man, it can be a toxic fucking place.
Speaker 1:Man, it for veterans, for active duty, for fucking yeah man, you motherfuckers will rip you, rip you to threads yeah, try to be positive, yeah, and do.
Speaker 2:The veteran community. The veteran community is terrible. Yeah, you know, um, we are our own worst enemies, um a lot you know and uh, we, we eat our own. We should probably make an attempt to stop doing that.
Speaker 1:You know it's one of those things where you have to take the approach of. You know the therapist will often say is like hey, hurt people, hurt people. And there's so many times I post something and 90% of what I post from the podcast is positive. Try to stay positive because that's what we need, man, when people are going through their hardest journey, where they're pivoting in the civilian world, they don't need one more voice being negative, telling them they're not going to be successful. They just need one person that can come through their feet and say, hey, you're going to make, you're going to be fine, you're going to succeed. But when people, sometimes when people hear that positivity, they'll go to your dms and be like shut the fuck up, you, you, piece of shit. It's never that easy. Fuck you, my transition was horrible.
Speaker 1:I fucking slept in my van for 15 years. Fuck you, it's like I'm sorry, dude. I wish I would have been there to help you get into the Honor Foundation or help you figure out how to get on LinkedIn, because you deserve a good job too, and your story is important. 90% of the the time, they'll just like. I don't know how to respond to this positivity, so I'm just gonna tell you to fuck off again.
Speaker 2:It's like all right, god bless yeah, have a great, have a merry christmas. Have a merry christmas. Go fuck yourself too, right?
Speaker 1:it's like all right, all right, I'm doing the lord's work one, one poop and cum joke post at a time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent, man. One, one, one F you at a time.
Speaker 1:But it's, it's. It's one of the things I realized was super difficult and I want to pivot to that now. It's like when you, when we go, we go through our, our transition, when we pivot into civilian world, there's a lot of unknowns and for a split second, guys and gals forget that their military service was packed with moments of fear and moments of unknown. When you finally decided to punch out, like what were some of the struggles that you went through?
Speaker 2:Oh man, so I never. Well, I did, but I didn't decide I was going to punch out. So I got medically retired about 17 and a bit Prior to that I actually had gotten court-martialed.
Speaker 2:So, long story short, I freaking bought some sappy plates in Vietnam while we were doing some training, ended up selling them. When I got some more test sappies, I sold them to an undercover NCIS agent. I wasn't being reconly at all because I bought them. I was going to sell them because it's my gear. Ended up going to court martial over it. Uh, actually, um got found guilty, um, and then during, but they didn't allow any of my evidence. And then during the sentencing hearing, they relaxed rules of evidence. All my stuff got put into evidence at that time and I got a 835 dollar fine out. So my lawyers estimate the court martial pride cost the government over two hundred thousand dollars to fly people from all over the place. Holy fuck and I'm actually still friends with. My lawyer wrote for me he's about to retire. He's a judge now he's retiring and he's doing. He's gonna do real estate. He's gonna do closings for real estate, itings for real estate. I want to be there for the happiest day of people's lives. I'm tired of criminals.
Speaker 1:I'm tired of freaking adjudicating stuff Right.
Speaker 2:Like I'm done, I just want to be there for one happy day. That's my retirement goal, man, I'm like.
Speaker 1:I just want to smile, I want to feel good, yeah, he's good, yeah, he's like.
Speaker 2:I don't want to deal with situations like what happened to you anymore, you know um. But so I got an 835 fine out of this thing, which is like less than half months paying allowance at njp for a knee, seven right for a gun, yeah, um. And I, you know like, look at my lower. I'm like because, dude, when I got found guilty, I was like, oh man, I'm so fucked right now like I'm going to the brick.
Speaker 2:You know, um and uh, you know. You know I guess I should have been more recounting that one. But you know, like, what do I do now? My lawyer's like go back to work. You know you're probably not gonna get promoted again but that they should have njp'd you right. Or you know the prosecutor had recommended a page 11 or 6105, right, about these paperwork on like five separate occasions, um so um, you know that happened. There's a bunch of reasons that added to that happening and you know, sometimes when we decide to do other things with our careers and other people just don't like you. Yeah, discrimination in the military is a real thing. It is.
Speaker 1:Especially if you're a recon marsock soft guy right that you will dude be discriminated against and and the thing is like selling surplus is something all of us have done every single one of us and bought surplus like if you're in fayetteville, it's literally a hobby. It's literally a fucking hobby yeah, like the.
Speaker 2:The prosecutor's uh, uh expert witness was a dude that worked at dermo and he's like there is no way you can get plates on the open market. We don't, we, we shred uh this many a year. My expert witness was a dude, a retired e9 who worked up at pentagon. As for the for-star, like head of appropriations or whatever right, he was like I have no idea what he's talking about, because we sent 150,000 sets of sappies to Afghanistan last year alone and we have no idea where they are. You can buy them on eBay, you can buy them at gear stores. I had a stack of papers that big of colonels, sergeant majors. I had the Marine Corps installation. He's serge's, our major, selling the exact same things I was selling, all in this nice stack of paperwork. So I hired a PI to do all that. Right, so anywhere in Eastern North, south Carolina, virginia, right? Just that area stack of pictures that big of all these people doing it, um.
Speaker 1:I I got, uh, my side plates stolen from me and before my last deployment, I bought my side plates from eBay.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly so. And then, right, there's literally a Marine Corps order that states you are allowed to purchase your own gear. If you do, it has to be put on your ECR card, right, or your hand receipt what you guys call it right and put in your record in supply, right. So there's that too, and nobody knows that. You know so anyway.
Speaker 2:So that happened to me, um, you know. So I was very like I learned a lot about the real marine corps through that process. Yeah, um, and I got a peek behind the curtain not I like the full, the full, look behind the curtain, you know. So I ended up going to the wounded war battalion shortly after that, cause I was already in the process of trying to unfuck myself, cause I was at hungry rollover in 2007, broke my fever, my back, fractured my forehead, a bunch of other stuff, and I and honestly I should have been medically retired after that and they were trying to, but I was not ready to be done yet. Um, so I just, you know, sucked it up like a good buttercup and kept on. But, um, you know, I've had like five knee surgeries in my left knee. I mean, like I look like a, I look like a strapping dude, right, but I'm a medical nightmare and I'm all sorts right, every day is just pain.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah right, like you know, like they don't. They want to like reset your pain. But, like the chiropractor on base fired me, she's like, oh, what's your pain level? Like seven, right seven. He's like, well, you come in here and it's always a seven. It's like hasn't your back been feeling like better? I'm like, oh, right, seven. He's like, well, you come in here and it's always a seven. He's like hasn't your back been feeling like better? I'm like, oh, it feels a little better. He's like, well, why don't we scale that pain down? I'm like this isn't like resetting your hearing baseline here, right, and you shouldn't even reset your hearing baseline, right? Like, why would I reset my pain baseline?
Speaker 2:Like I went sign, like I went in the marine corps at the age of 17. This is how I felt, this is what was wrong with me. And now look at me, I'm all fucked up. I'm not resetting my pain baseline here, right? I didn't do this to me. The marine corps did this to me, right? Like all this time spent training and deploying, you know, um, so I went to the wounded warrior battalion and then, you know, for me it was like, um, it took a lot for me to make peace, uh, with what happened, um, you know, because, um, you you're, um you, you feel betrayed. Yeah, right, like and that's that's so everything that you ever hear right like oh, you know a band of brothers, right, we always have your back and this and that, right, and that's all bullshit. Quickly know a band of brothers, right, we always have your back and this and that, right, and that's all bullshit quickly becomes a band of one it's, it's, yeah, it's a band, it's a band of one.
Speaker 2:In the wagons were circled, I found out who my true friends were. You know through that process and uh, a huge. You know they got me them. And you know my family got me through that uh situation. You know and um, but it's a real big thing. You know my family got me through that situation, you know and um, but it so a real big thing. You know, I probably have more fricking PSTDs from that damn Fort Marshall than I do from combat.
Speaker 1:Well, shit, that's moral injury, man, that's, that's fucking being betrayed by the core, being fucking fried for something that even command star majors do for something that even command star majors do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, and and and, and, uh, quite literally, I got found guilty because I was a recalmarin. The head juror was standing in my classroom two weeks post-court martial for the blue green integration, for the mu, and he was there. So the first break I was like, hey, lieutenant, outside, right, outside, right now. And he's like, oh, johnny, I'm like, oh, I'm not going to say his name here because he's a good dude, right, but I'm like, hey, man, you know what happened. He's like dude, you got found. The one thing they do not record, right, is the jury debriefing, right. And he was like, look, and I had. They tried to do me, like, do me dirty, right, because I had the middle court martial special, I think, right. And they tried to seat a full jury on me, which my lawyers are like we've never seen this happen. And they say you know a jury of your peers. Well, there was zero of my peers on that jury, right, it was all guys from LE Battalion and Intel Battalion.
Speaker 2:You know there was zero O3s right, infantry from le battalion and intel battalion you know, there there was zero oh threes right, infantry recon, anything, any combat arms, mos right, um, you know which were the for the marsok three. Thank god those guys all had a bunch of uh, you know uh, raiders and raider officers on their um jury. Thank god for that for them. You know, because, like you, you know, I told those guys, like you know, man, you guys are going to, they're going to come to try to fuck you. You know, because that's what the system, the system you're not, the system is not set for you to win Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And you know the prosecutor. The prosecutor freaking, recommended a 6105 on not one occasion, but five. I didn't find that out until the day of the court-martial. I called my colonel directly, fulberg. He's like all right, let's put a stop to it. We couldn't because he didn't have convening authority, the XO, essentially the AOIC. This dude, winston Tierney, I'll definitely call him out now until the day that I die, he's the worst Marine Corps officer I've ever encountered.
Speaker 2:He had his axe to grind with three combat Marines because he got fired from a couple of force recon platoons. He's just a terrible dude. Between him and the adge is what they're like, why I got court-martialed. And the head juror? He's like look man, the warrant officer is on the jury. They want to see you burn.
Speaker 2:It wasn't until all the evidence came in in the sentencing hearing that they realized they fucked up. Exact words to me. You know what I mean. $835, fine, that's nothing. Half a month's pay and allowances would have been $1,500.
Speaker 2:But still you feel betrayed by the institution that you've dedicated your life to right. You get this peek behind the curtain and then you really see the. You know like they wanted to ad set me for staff NCO misconduct at one point and they didn't do that, thankfully, and that was illegal for them to do anyways. And when I was telling them that was illegal, like Sergeant Major, he's like what do you want me to do about him? Like dude, you're the senior enlisted advisor, commander, go advise. And like I mean I, I got, I mean I got loud like the dude. Like put me at parade rest because I was yelling at him. I'm like that is your fucking job, go advise. Right, my lawyers are calling the edge and telling them your adge, right, that what she is doing is illegal. Yeah, you cannot make it up as you go and they're like, well, it's the general's policy. It's not the general's policy because my friend was the sergeant major of the mef at that time. He's like there is no policy, there's no policy on a share drive, there's no white letters, there's nothing, there's no policy. You can't make this shit up as you go along, right.
Speaker 2:And so when you start peeking behind this curtain, right, and you start realizing, right, that all these people who have power, let's say, right, you know whether it's a company commander who can NJP, a private or a B3, whatever, right, you know that dude does not have any training to make him judge and jury, right, and the first sergeant, none of them. They don't. They have this. They have the ucmj and their little hardcover book, right. And then they just throw it at you, right, to see what sticks. So I, I tell people, I've told guys ever since that happened me like, hey, look, they threaten you in the njp, take it to court-martial. Yeah, go get it, go get leave. Do not do get legal representation right. Whether you got a dewey or you've lost a freaking RCO or something right, and they're going to try to hang you on the cross because of it. Go get legal representation right Because more than likely, there's something they're doing that's illegal. Yeah, because they don't know.
Speaker 1:That's the bottom line. They don't know and they just want to fucking throw the entire catalog at you. Yeah, that's fucking the bottom line.
Speaker 2:They don't know and they just want to fucking throw the entire catalog at you. Yeah, that's. Yeah, you know. So when I went to so I went to wounded war battalion, right, so I had to make my peace with like what had just happened to me. Right now I'm at wounded war battalion and like, people there do not, I do not jive, I did not jive.
Speaker 1:People there yeah, you know, I've heard a lot of the a lot of the same sentiments from some of my other friends a lot, a lot of malingers, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And, um, you know a lot of malingers and that, and I was. I was like, hey, look you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone. Right, like, yeah, I'll go to my appointments. Right, like I'll get this med board thing going and just let me do my thing. And I ended up having a good experience there. But it gave me an opportunity there to start working on my transition plan, make some peace with stuff, you know.
Speaker 2:And for me, the crappy thing is that after my accident, you know like there was a bunch of stuff that I would have needed right in my next part of my career, right, because next part after so it's a instructor, a special operations training group, and all that stuff went down right. Next thing in my career would have been being a platoon sergeant uh, you know, taking a recon or force recon platoon out on deployment or whatever, right, and there's certain qualifications. I would need it right, like a be a jump master, right, well, jumping, jumping around, shoot with a rod in your femur and uh like stuff with my back and all that. Can I do it absolutely should I do it a lot? No, so I like, literally after I broke my femur and all that. I only jumped squares after that, right. But you know like. And then you know there's a bunch, just you know I made peace with it Because you want to be the best at anything that you do, right. And if I wouldn't have been able to be a platoon sergeant who had all the qualifications needed to run that platoon, then would I have been the best fit. Not necessarily you know what I mean and would I have done my job great, absolutely. But I wouldn't want to be the guy who doesn't have qualifications that some of my team leaders have. You know what I mean. Yeah, from a leadership standpoint. So you know I knew Right.
Speaker 2:And then also, like there's the, you know I tried training smarter, right, physically, like after my accent, not all the time, but I did try. Semaphore was put into it. Us type A types are kind of dumb, right, yeah. But you know like, all right, I got to train smart right, longevity, right. I want to be able to play with my kids, you know, and not be the dude who's just decrepit.
Speaker 2:So, like my journey at Woodward Battalion, just kind of. You know, I started focusing a little bit more on myself, which I had not done, you know, in my all all the years prior, uh, of service. And then, you know, start focusing on what I wanted to do when I got out. Um, you know, and for a lot of guys getting out, right you can have, you can have a plan, right, but but no plan and survives. First contact, exactly, um, and I think, I think that's probably what fucks guys up a lot, you know, is that you're like oh, I'm gonna get out, I'm gonna be a motivational speaker, I'm gonna do a, I'm a contract right, like for a lot of soft guys that's like, that's just number one I'm just gonna go contract.
Speaker 2:I'll make way more money than I do right now. Fuck this shit, you know. But then when their plan doesn't work out right, then they really start to suffer. Yep, and I think that like, hey, all these, all these things that we learned in the military set us up to have a great career or life, whatever we want to do.
Speaker 2:Uh, as a civilian right, like all these planning, like the planning process, right, you can apply the planning process to every part of your life and be successful. Um, you know, and people like, well, that's really, you know, kind of like a way to like put it right, like, yeah, well, that's, but that's what I did in the military. Like, yeah, cause it works. You know what I mean? You know, so guys like they get out and they just purge everything that they've just done, dude, you know, and without realizing that, what they have been doing, whether it was four years or 20, 30 years, right, all those building blocks give them the keys to success. If they want to apply them, a new environment, right, that's all you're doing is operating in a new environment it's so true.
Speaker 1:I got a friend, eric brown, the friggin great leader. Green beret had all this leadership experience, all these years dedicated into teaching, coaching, mentoring, advising others gets out. Why would he want to do anything else? But then look at, look at his strength, look at the things he's been doing for 20 plus years. Shit, I mastered this. Why don't I open up my own business, entrepreneur, imperial Consulting, like boom. Now he's running it.
Speaker 1:Now he's doing exactly what he's been doing it has a passion for and if he can do it, all of us can do it. If you just have to take a moment to take a knee and it's okay if you have a passion for being of service and being becoming a first responder, becoming a firefighter but just understand, take some time to understand what you really value, what you really love, and then you realize, like shit, like I could do option B, which is go contract all day, be miserable, make tons of money, be away from home, not see my kids, or I could lean into what I love, lean into what I'm really good at, my strengths, and probably make a really good living.
Speaker 2:It's out there, yeah. And if you're a guy who retired and you've got TRICARE, you've got your retirement pay and you get VA disability, especially if you're 100% disability, right, it gives you the power to do whatever you want. Yep, I know guys who are probably making freaking nine grand a year. Sorry, my phone's going off, no you're good. The dang thing is something a bunch of coyotes. I got that on there so I don't mess up my coyote hunting.
Speaker 1:It's actually a smart idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. That thing's going to go off for a minute until it turns off, because I don't know what the heck might have. Oh, found, might have, oh, found it. I found it slipped down here. Now my other dang airpod did too. Son of a gun, um, but, yeah, you know, freaking guys, uh, um, you know, got, get that, get that, pay right, doing well for themselves, um, and then they're still busting their hump freaking 40, 50 hours a week and you know whether that you know, or they're gone deploying and all that crap and it's like, hey, fellas, I mean, is it worth all that?
Speaker 1:how much money how much money do you really need?
Speaker 2:how much money do you really need, and, and a lot like yeah, exactly, uh, you know, and I, uh, other I can't. I do a little bit of contract work a couple times a year and that's kind of what pays the the bills, so to speak, and uh, hang on a sec, I get this other if you're like me, I understand completely, because one ear does not fucking work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's did 90 of the time. If people see me coming, coming out of the gym or just walking around, I keep the fucking airpods in, because they actually work pretty damn good as hearing aids, uh, versus my resound hearing aids that are now, uh, obsolete.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Uh, they just came out with new AirPods to my kids. Have been messing with me Um new AirPods that are actually hearing aids too, so sure Wouldn't be surprised when my kid buys me those for Christmas or something.
Speaker 1:Now were you always an outdoorsman? Were you always involved in hunting or did you lean into that more once you got out sort of like outdoor therapy?
Speaker 2:um, so I always loved the outdoors I mean growing up on a farm. Um, so I was always outdoors, um you, whether that was working or playing or riding dirt bikes and four wheelers and stuff. Um, our idea of hunting back then it was like do a deer drive after we got the milking cows and shoot whatever jumps out of the woods, so not a successful method. Um, and I, I got more into hunting when, uh, after I broke my femur in my back and stuff, and I was just sitting home, you know, feeling sorry for myself, drinking booze, eating pills, and I was like you know what? I need to do something to get out of this dark hole. You know, you start, you know, tiptoeing on the precipice there and order a bow off eBaybay, start flinging some arrows in the backyard, and then I was hobbling around the woods with a back brace, a cane and a bow holy shit yeah and uh, I mean it's, it's what bad slip?
Speaker 2:oh dude, oh yeah I don't even know what. I don't even know what I was thinking um, but I mean, I know what I was thinking. Get me outside in the woods. Yeah, I did not shoot anything. Probably for like the first four years I hunted.
Speaker 1:No shit.
Speaker 2:And so my son he was like five at the time so I dragged him out in the woods with me and, like one time he's taken it. He's like sleep, he's balled up in my poncho liner. I'm just sitting down underneath the tree and a little six pointer comes out and I'm like all right, it's going down, draw back that bow. And then my son's like dad, there's a deer right there. And that deer was like gone. She's like 15 yards away. And Dylan just sat right up and I'm like yeah, there was a deer there, damn it I love you yeah love you, Love you son.
Speaker 2:Mean it. But yeah, I didn't shoot anything for like five years. I mean I ended up going to schools deploying and stuff like that after I healed up and whatever right. So like the whole joke of my family. So I had gone home, went up to upstate New York to go deer hunting probably a year later or something like that and I hit a deer with my truck on the way up there and saw no deer while I was hunting. Yeah, so I was on a.
Speaker 2:I did shooting for like probably the first four years or so and then I got the bow because I was like, ah, primitive, you know, like I've I got the folks. I was like, ah, primitive, you know, like I've already been to the sandbox and you know you've already shot the two legged critters with rifles. Like how much better can it get, you know? And um, then I'm like you know what I'll get a muzzle loader. That's primitive too. So I shot my first deer with that and I'm like you know what self you like anything that flings projectiles. So now I mean I'll hunt with bow crossbow. I shot my first deer this year with a 457 air rifle.
Speaker 1:Oh, no shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I do a lot of rapid air works and Air Force air guns One of our top sponsors for the reason outdoors, and I've been doing a lot of air gun hunting. Um, so I shot my first year with that. Uh, that was pretty awesome. I was trying to trying to shoot a bear this year with an air rifle, but that hasn't hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 1:Fuck, that's so with a who, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So he got a set of balls on you, yeah I mean like you know, like I do it, you know, it's like you see. I mean there's like the one guy shot a dang bear with a blow gun, right with a little razor dart, yeah, no joke. Um, I'm like man, I love anything that flings, projectiles. Man, get me out like I'll, I'll, I'll try to hunt anything. Screw it, man, it Fuck man.
Speaker 1:But those guns are. I haven't hunted with them or used any of those, but they've gotten really popular. I see them everywhere on social media. But fuck, it's still for a bear man, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean it's a that 457 shooting a 350 grain slug, uh, 900 feet per second.
Speaker 1:It's almost like a muscle, almost like a muscle loader.
Speaker 2:It's got some ass. Um, I shot. The longest distance I shot that gun was 368 yards, I think, out at the Rocky mountain air gun challenge last summer. Um, so I mean, I wouldn't shoot an animal that far Like it's about 50 yards and in type thing but it's a cool tool to hunt with and you know, if you're ever one of those guys who find yourself on the wrong side of the law at one point in time in your life or another, right, you can also use those to hunt. You're all set there too, allegedly Right. Right, also use those to hunt. Uh, you're all set there too allegedly right. Right, check your states, check your states, right, but here in north carolina, right, you can. If you happen to be a felonious individual, right, you can hunt with one of those too every ceo of a fucking insurance company.
Speaker 2:Right now it's sweating bullets oh, fuck oh man, don't let it out oh man oh man yeah so that that that kind of that's what started career, um, and then, uh, I had a group of buddies, um, that literally we would it on base, right like four o'clock, right on base like at 359. We'd be logged into the system like hit and refresh, refresh, see what hunting areas on base we could hunt. And I mean, I shot some killer deer up on camp lejeune, um, and then just, uh, from there just took off, um, I had the opportunity to hunt with a couple great organizations, um, for some wounded warrior hunts, like combat marine outdoors, wounded warriors in action, um, and I wanted to talk to them Like, hey, let's start something. East Coast CMO they're headquartered out of Texas, they're a great organization and they weren't that interested, which is fine, yeah. So when I retired, my buddy, tony and I we discussed starting this thing back in 2017. Well, our lawyer we had a lawyer at the time for it and he was running his own nonprofit as well and his nonprofit was helping people in Haiti. So when they had that earthquake there, he kind of took off and we just never followed back up with them, which ended up turning out to be fine.
Speaker 2:And you know, the year before last, tony's like hey, why don't we take some veterans to the back country and just mentor them on a hunt? And I'm like, absolutely, let's do it. We set it up. And he's like, why don't we start this nonprofit, you know? And I'm like, all right, let's do it. And uh, uh, we weren't expecting um the IRS to move fast. Um, they did like two weeks later, like, hey, you guys are gonna start accepting donations, um, and here's your numbers, etc. Etc. Um, so we were off the races.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, our first hunt as a non-profit backcountry I don't hunt. That's like the second hardest hunt you can do in the lower 48, you know. So, um, but, yeah, my, you know, for me, you know, going back to like kind of how I started, um, I've sent, prior to starting, as I probably sent a couple hundred people on hunting trips or taking them and all that, and for me, outdoors is what he, you know, healed me. Yeah, um, and uh, obviously, the harvest. Know, shooting an animal is great too.
Speaker 2:But you know, whether you're out in the woods for the start of turkey season, you hear the turkeys gobbling, you watch the woods wake up, right, like there is power and healing in nature. Um, and then when I, you know, when we bring together a Marine army guy, fireman, a cop and a Navy guy right For a weekend, by the end of that weekend they're all going to be best friends. Yep, um right, shared um backgrounds, um, you know, shared adversity, uh, and then just the camaraderie that you find at hunting camp, you know, uh, telling stories. And then just the camaraderie that you find at hunting camp, you know, uh, telling stories. People are they're going to learn from one another. Their networks are going to expand Um, especially if it you know, um, we have a guy, a couple of guy or two, has never hunted before or girls, right.
Speaker 2:And then you've got a couple of guys who are very passionate, experienced hunters, right right. Then now you got all of the the hunting stories with the military time and all that and it just it's a, it's therapeutic. Yeah, you know those, those fireside chats, so to speak, are super therapeutic. And, uh, you know, for us one of our biggest decisions that we made was like, do we have only combat veterans Right, is it, you know, and or you know just soft or infantry or you know, combat arms type thing? The answer to us was no, because One the veteran, like I said earlier, veteran community were like terrible to one another.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that needs to stop. You know some people deserve it. Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We don't need to drop names, but you know people deserve it. You know who we're talking about. You know it connect with my eyes, you listening or watching on youtube, you know what we're talking about. You know and you know it's you, and I know that you know and if it's, you stop right like, hey look, you can't.
Speaker 2:This is not the time and age where you're gonna uh, embellish stuff or say stuff and it's not gonna get found out yeah you're going to get found out. So just knock it. Just don't do it.
Speaker 1:Motherfuckers have receipts they have receipts yeah yeah, not everybody's gonna have a medal of honor combat, yeah, or military. But you know what? Every veteran does have a unique and amazing story of service, of their lived experience, and that is good enough. That is good enough. Be a good human being, be a good dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you, like we all you know, when I was, like, when I was young, I was the dude like you're not in the inventory. So, fuck you, we rule, you suck Like oh yeah, like we rule, you suck like, oh yeah, you know, right, and I, you know, when you're a 17, 18, 19 year old infantryman, right, this is how you are right, uh. But as you inevitably uh, mature and get older, right, you realize that everybody's job plays a very important role?
Speaker 1:absolutely yeah, and you're. You never know who's gonna have that combat experience from like I. I have a great friend retired out of the Marine Corps as a SAR major and he was so humble, always he one of the home, they just did the best dude you can imagine. But he wasn't a combat arms guy so he always downplayed his experience. But you know what he did in the invasion the stories and the, the, the, the amount of experience and the things he did in the invasion.
Speaker 1:Just if he were to tell you what he did and all the things that he's seen, anybody would have been like what the fuck? Because at that time period it didn't matter what the fuck your mos was. It was, yeah, hey, get on that gun, get on that turret. We're going on a fucking convoy and it's like holy fucking shit. And there are thousands of individuals with those stories that rose to the challenge when the challenge was presented to them. Are you gonna fucking man up and go do what's needed? And that dude's story was fucking amazing. And that's just a proof that it doesn't matter what your mos is. If you were willing to stamp up a stand up and meet the demands of the time in that moment and you're able to rise to the challenge like you have an amazing story and not everybody gets opportunity, but it's okay. You know you can still be a great service member that worked in s1 well, maybe not. Maybe not S1.
Speaker 2:S2, s3, of course, Right, yeah, I mean, you know even those guys like, hey, you don't have any combat experience, oh, you're a supply guy, whatever, whatever your job was. But if I put you in camp with a soft guy, right, a whole mixture of dudes. The other thing is that, like these guys learn, yeah, right. Like they want to hear a soft guy stories, right, but you know, inevitably that supply guy or the intel guy, right, he's got some story, right, that's going to resonate, some experience to resonate. Or you know, you're gonna play those seven degrees of ke, kevin Bacon, and you're a no, mutual people, yes, right. And so, like you're expanding your network and like nobody's nobody in our camp is going to downplay any of your experience because it's all relevant. You know what I mean. People are going to learn from one another, right, and you know that that expanding of the network, right, is, is so vital.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, so many guys just get out, right, whether that's after their first four years, right, or even after 20 years, and they're like I'm done, and they just cut off, right, and just treat that as like their former life, right, but you cut your, you cut yourself off from your network of people who have been there for you for the past however many years. Right, and by doing that, you know that's why these like these do start to unravel so fast. Right, like, don't forget about these dudes that you serve with. Right Like, the world is a small place of social media right now that's the good part about it. So you can reach out to former teammates, you know, or you could reach out, you probably find your freaking drill instructors.
Speaker 1:You can't you know what I?
Speaker 2:mean if you were, if you wanted mine follows me on tiktok boy.
Speaker 1:That was weird dude, I saw.
Speaker 2:I saw one of my drill instructors in afghanistan who was the same rank as when I left boot camp.
Speaker 1:No shit.
Speaker 2:Nine years prior, damn, he had a crazy story, but it's because he freaking beat down one of his lieutenants in Iraq and he ended up. Oddly enough, I saw him at the division training center, probably another year or two later, and then he was was a SAR major and he had all of his stuff overturned. Oh wow, and it was a wild, wild story. Hell yeah, but yeah, people cut themselves up from their freaking network and that is not what you need to do. Right, maintain the network, expand the network. Expand the network.
Speaker 2:Right, whether, like, the VFW is the worst place to use as an example, right, but if you get on the VFW, right and right, there's a network there. Most of them are Karachi, the old Nam or, you know very few. Korean War probably no. World War II guys left, you know, but right, there is a network there. World War II guys, left, you know, but right, there is a network there. And combat and combat stories transcend years and eras. Right, they're all relevant to one another and you know, maintaining that network, you know, is vitally important to your mental health.
Speaker 1:It's so true, man, that's the first thing I tell people if they reach out and they're in crisis. It's like, hey, we got, we gotta get you the help, we gotta get you to a resource that can help you right now. But as you're coaching and helping somebody, as they're getting on back on the journey and being, you know, working towards being better and progression, it's like, okay, you can't self isolate anymore. You can't just sit in a room and watch the same movies and the same TV shows. We got to get you plugged in with a gym, a local resource where you can be around people, because we're not meant to be alone, we're not meant to be isolated. We're meant to connect and hang out and talk and share experiences and do hard things with people. Discomfort. Being able to share a shitty ruck or a workout with friends does more for you than sitting at home and binge watching self-help videos on YouTube. That's the truth, right? Just be willing to get out there and do something. Go, connect with your friends. I'm telling you, if you're struggling right now, but you're not in crisis, you're not in crisis, you're just having a hard time reconnect with one of your friends. Go off in the weekend to go do something challenging. Go for a hike, go for a rock, go for a workout. The key to it is being around other people. Try to do that physical holding space for each other. What you realize is that friend you invited or that person that got you out they probably are dealing with the same thing.
Speaker 1:We all need connection, for for some reason we forget that. We forget that for the largest amount of time in our life, when we're in the military, we're constantly surrounded by assholes in their platoon. We had a squad mates, we had teams, we had an ODA, we had other people that friggin talk and joke with. When we get out and you just find yourself in these small pockets of existence, like whether you're working from home or working with people that you don't really connect with. Reach out and connect man, and that's why your program is so necessary being able to go out in the woods and experience something I tell you right now. You don't have to have the experience of ever have gone on a hunt to benefit from this. That's the beauty of it. You don't have to be a seasoned outdoorsman like you can have.
Speaker 2:You can have no hunting experience, man, and that's one of the cool things I think that we do. It's it's the? Um, you know, we're going to teach you the how, the why, right, the. You know, we're going to give you all the knowledge that we have, you know. So, um, and I, I like new hunters. They don't have any bad habits, um, you know, and, and they're super eager to learn, and I remember, you know, and I'm like, I'm still, you know, eager to learn new things.
Speaker 2:So, when it comes to hunting, um, and I just remember being a new hunter and just trying to, like, trying to get as much knowledge as fast as I could, you know, so I could be a better hunter.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, and, uh, like you know, like I said, a lot of the same things that we use for mission planning is like how I conduct a hunt, or how I scout properties, and you know, right, how I analyze terrain and, and you know, I look at all that same, I look at the same way I do a recumission.
Speaker 2:But you know, we, we teach guys the, the how, the why, um, you know, when they harvest something, we teach them how to skin, gut, clean it um, a lot of times we do a field the table, we'll cook some, you know, cook it up, um, we've done that for our iguana hunts, cooked up some iguana and bull shark, we've got deer, hogs, all kinds of stuff, and showing guys like, hey, dispelling myths that surround hunting, like, oh, venison tastes gamey. Well, if I prepare my venison this way, it's gonna taste just as good as beef tips, you know. Um, so teaching them all that stuff and so that way that, um, they have a baseline of knowledge, you know, moving forward, and if they want to hunt more regularly, you know we've given them, hopefully, some tools to be able to do that, and then they can always reach back out to us and ask questions. I get people that ask me questions about hunting stuff all the time.
Speaker 2:So I'm always willing to answer that.
Speaker 1:Well, coop, how do we get involved, how do we reach out to you guys and get on the next hunt with you?
Speaker 2:You can find us at there. Uh, the reason outdoorsorg. Um, you can find us on Instagram under the underscore reason underscore outdoors underscore, and then Facebook the reason outdoors. Youtube the reason outdoors. We have some of our um past, some guys who've hunted with us. We have some interviews, uh from them up on our YouTube channel. Um, so you can if we actually on our website we have a form that you can fill out. Um, so if you're interested in hunting with us, fill out that form, shoot us a DM on Instagram, uh, facebook, um, whatever, um and uh, we will uh facilitate. I think last year, our first full year of operation, I'd say that we probably took over 50 or 60 people hunting, which is pretty solid numbers for our first year. We're kind of in the balling on a budget phase.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, for our first year we're kind of in the balling on a budget phase um hell yeah fundraising.
Speaker 2:Fundraising is a continuing action, you know, as we say in the biz um. So you know the um and we're. You know, if folks want to donate, you'll find a donation link on our website as well. Um, if you want to host the hunt, you can reach out to us as well and we'll bring people to you. Does not matter what that is, we'll have guns, we'll travel kind of outfit for our ecotherapy program. Uh, so we call it ecotherapy. It's our fancy, fancy term for hunting and fishing and outdoor adventures hell yeah and uh, yeah, so we would love to have people.
Speaker 2:Um, we've been getting a good amount of people in the queue and you know we've got a pretty. We're winding down this hunting season, you know whitetail and stuff. But in January we've got the Onzo Predator Challenge coming up. We're going to have a couple teams of guys going out and hunting some coyotes for that. We have some hog hunts coming up. We'll have some more iguana hunts coming up here in the new year. Nice, I mean, dude, everybody loves skulking around in urban areas with their rifles. Yeah, it's what you always wanted to do in the military, right? I guess that's. That's what I felt like. When you're skulking around like urban areas, cars are driving by right and you're just shooting stuff in the head, yeah, right, uh, and you know you're helping the environment exactly it's an invasive species and you can eat them.
Speaker 1:Uh, and they're very good to eat. Like that's the's the thing. That's really awesome, dude. Like it's no pun intended, you're killing two birds with one stone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah for real, yep, for real. You know you do get the people driving by flipping you the bird, and you know all that stuff.
Speaker 1:I think that I mean for guys like us.
Speaker 2:That's what we love too right, it's like hey, smoking a glon in the head. Then if you're a company and you want to sponsor an entire hunt, we have packages put together. So if a company sponsors a hunt, what we do is one of the representatives from the company gets to come. If they have any veterans at the company, they can bring one of their veteran employees and then we fill the rest of the gaps with our folks and then whomever from whichever company, can come on the first annual Security Halt podcast hunt or whatever, and we go from there whatever and you know, we uh and we go from there.
Speaker 2:But, um, super, um, it's definitely been a undertaking, yeah, for us doing this, uh, doing this thing, but it's a a very, very worthy endeavor. And you know, if us, you know in our, you know america's heroes, I'd say right, veterans and first responders, right like uh, if we don't stick together, right, or we don't help each other, no one's gonna help us absolutely so yeah we are our brothers and sisters keeper, you know we.
Speaker 1:We have to come up with any way that we can support our communities. Um, because, like, we can't just stand by and think that the problems that our communities face are going to be solved by somebody magically. If you're listening and you're thinking of starting a nonprofit, do it. If you're thinking of trying to get a job in a nonprofit, please do it. If you're thinking of contributing a little bit of your monthly earnings towards a nonprofit that supports veterans, by all means do it.
Speaker 1:We all did it in 82nd or regular army. Like, you always had that CFC or forget what it's called. But you always have to contribute, right? You always have to, like, give a little bit of your money. And we joked about it. I remember I dumped so much money to the free helper monkeys fund I don't even know if that really existed, but every time it came time to give up money, I'm like you know what I'm going to. I'm going to find the most ridiculous thing and donate my money to it. But now that I'm older, I realized that contributions are important, being willing like dude, every time you go to church on Sunday, it's important to give a little bit of money towards your congregation, towards the people in your community who need help, and this is no different. So that's why, starting in the new year, we're doing 75 semi-hard. That's a variation of Andy Frisella's successful 75 hard challenge. Look, I get it.
Speaker 1:Fitness is very important. You might miss a few days because you got things to do, but that's okay, because we're not going to reset the clock. No, every time you miss a gym, every time you miss a run, you're going to have to donate towards a cause. So choose a nonprofit. Start getting your gym shoes ready, because, starting the new year, we're doing 75 semi hard and every day that you missed a gym you got to donate five bucks. But guess what? The next time you miss a run or a gym session, we're tacking in another five dollars. So every it's a win-win. You're gonna be motivated to go to the fucking gym and get back into better health. And then, when you inevitably miss because, hey, I got a kid on the way, so I'm to definitely miss a lot of gym days it's going to go up 5, 10, 15, 20.
Speaker 1:And what better way of putting yourself into a better mental state and be more primed to be successful in the new year than starting one of these fitness challenges? So follow us on social media. We'll be dropping it soon, but the Reason Outdoors is going to be one of those nonprofits that we push for you to donate, whether it's $5, $10, every little bit helps and we're going to have a roll up of the nonprofits that we think that you should be throwing this money towards. But if you don't want to throw towards those nonprofits, you have some of your own. Then that's fine too. But hopefully, within the first 75 days of the new year, we can raise some money to a good nonprofit on a daily or weekly basis.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, join us, stay tuned on our Instagram and join us on this fitness journey and donation journey, because it takes all of us to help stem the suicide epidemic that we're dealing with, and nobody else is doing this in the military, sadly, it's a nonprofit space that's doing the most work, so that's where we have to put our money and that's where we have to put our efforts to support the programs that are supporting us and first responders Coop. I can't thank you enough for what you're doing and for being willing to step into the arena. I know it's a lot of hard work, I know it's not always easy, but it's definitely appreciated and you are changing lives, man. Thank you for being here today, brother.
Speaker 2:Thanks brother, I appreciate you having me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely To everybody listening. Thank you for tuning in, thank you for hitting us up on social media. We're at 15K. I never thought in my wildest dreams that we would be at 15. I know to some people that's not a lot, but to me that's a huge number. You tuned in to the poop and cum jokes and then you stayed around for the podcast and that means a lot. And you're constantly reaching out and right now this will probably air first week after Christmas.
Speaker 1:But I want to say thank you. You've made me feel better each and every day when I check the DMs and I see that it's making a positive change. So to all of you out there doing well, keep fighting. And for those of you that are struggling a little bit, you're not alone. Keep moving forward. Forge your LGOP, forge your little group of support. You know it helps you, I know it helped me. So reach out to your friends this Christmas season, this holiday season and into the new year. Reach out, stay connected. That's the way we make it through this hard challenge that we call life. So thank you again for tuning in and we'll see you all next time. So then, take care, if you like what we're doing and you enjoying the show. Don't forget to share us, like us subscribe. Thank you.
