Security Halt!
Welcome to Security Halt! Podcast, the show dedicated to Veterans, Active Duty Service Members, and First Responders. Hosted by retired Green Beret Deny Caballero, this podcast dives deep into the stories of resilience, triumph, and the unique challenges faced by those who serve.
Through powerful interviews and candid discussions, Security Halt! Podcast highlights vital resources, celebrates success stories, and offers actionable tools to navigate mental health, career transitions, and personal growth.
Join us as we stand shoulder-to-shoulder, proving that even after the mission changes, the call to serve and thrive never ends.
Security Halt!
#239 Breaking Barriers: Cristin Browne’s Journey as a Female Pilot and Veteran Leader
In this captivating episode of Security Halt!, host Deny Caballero sits down with Cristin Browne, a trailblazing pilot and Army Veteran who is now working for the AMAZING non-profit Huts for vets! Join us as she shares her extraordinary journey from West Point to military aviation. Cristin shares her experiences navigating the challenges of flight school, leadership in a male-dominated field, and her transition from military service to civilian life.
The conversation highlights the resilience required to overcome adversity, the importance of mentorship, and the value of teamwork in shaping successful careers. Cristin also sheds light on her work with Huts for Vets, a nonprofit that offers wilderness therapy for veterans, emphasizing the healing power of nature and community.
This inspiring discussion is a must-listen for anyone passionate about leadership, representation, and personal growth.
Tune in now on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts. Don’t forget to follow, like, share, and subscribe to help spread inspiring stories like Cristin’s!
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Transitioning Veterans
04:30 The Journey to West Point
09:07 Overcoming Adversity in the Academy
14:31 The Fight to Commission
19:10 The Importance of Mentorship
23:21 Flight School Experience and Teamwork
29:12 The Challenges of Flight School
34:36 Navigating Assignments and Expectations
42:06 Leadership and Mentorship in Aviation
47:10 Breaking Barriers: Female Pilots in Combat
56:51 Reflections on Leadership and Gender Dynamics
01:00:07 Reflections on Military Career and Transition
01:07:15 Navigating the Transition to Civilian Life
01:13:03 Finding Purpose in Nonprofit Work
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Follow Cristin on LinkedIn on social media, and check out Huts for Vets TODAY!
LinkedIn: Cristin Browne
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cristinbrowne/
Instagram: hutsforvets
https://www.instagram.com/hutsforvets/
YouTube: @hutsforvets
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBnZp3n-6whnzJ6A34UaJNg
Facebook: Huts for Vets
https://www.facebook.com/hutsforvets/
Produced by Security Halt Media
security hot podcast let's go with a man who's the best with guns, with knives, with his bare hands, a man who's been trained to ignore, ignore weather, to live off the land. Job was disposed of enemy personnel to kill period Win by attrition. All right, kristen, welcome to Security Hall. I'm always looking for.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me here. Absolutely, I'm always looking for new and awesome nonprofits that are doing great work, and I'm also excited about the fact that you're a veteran working with a new and awesome, exciting nonprofit. So that checks two of the boxes. Because one thing I realized about transition is it's difficult for everybody Officers, enlisted whether you're doing 20 years or you're just doing five years. Transition is something that all of us go through. So when we can highlight successes and highlight individuals that went to nonprofit space, I'd love to do that. So welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks, thanks, appreciate it.
Speaker 1:So let's start off with how did you find yourself in the military?
Speaker 2:Ah, so I joined the military through West Point, so I'm a service academy grad and I really went to West Point for a couple of reasons. One I grew up in New Jersey, so I like to say that I'm a child of 9-11. And I was in high school when the Twin Towers went down and I viscerally felt that experience. I remember going into my first period high school classroom and someone running in and saying, oh my gosh, the US is being attacked and half of my hometown, the parents from my hometown, commuted to New York City for work. So I mean, that was something that hit extremely close to home and just someone that has always been now looking back on my life, someone that has always been what can I do? What can I do? That hit me hard, and so that definitely was a motivator.
Speaker 2:Another was it was a way to get college paid for, very, very pragmatic. It was an avenue to go to a good school and I was always an athlete and an academic, a nerd and a jock at the same time, I like to say, and it was a place that appreciated both of those things and fully funded by the US government for a down payment of at least five years of blood, sweat and tears upon graduation. So that was another and the last piece is I had access. My brother actually went ahead of me to West Point again for similar reasons of what I just described.
Speaker 2:So if I hadn't gone to football games while he was a cadet, or gone to visit him during the summers, I probably wouldn't have known that that option even existed to me. So that was definitely a motivator and a reason why I ended up going to the academy as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the academy gets a lot of Academy grads do get a lot of negative attention, especially in the infantry and special operations world. But it's good to joke. But I kid you not, I've had some really awesome officers from the academy. It's always the guys that understand, like dude, it was exactly what you said. It was a way to get to a historic place, to go to school, to serve and pay for college. It's always the guys that make it seem out like it's the greatest thing of their life, their highest achievement. That sort of end up being the guy that's like man, you're the worst, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just like from any walk of life, there's good, there's bad, there's everywhere in between. And I do sometimes say, yes, I'm a Service Academy grad Please don't hold that against me and as I've tracked through life, I'm proud. I'm proud of that.
Speaker 1:And don't say anymore.
Speaker 2:Don't hold it against me. But at the same time I think well, I know that I look at it as a privilege.
Speaker 2:It was a privilege to be able to attend that institution, to meet the people that I met, to have the experiences that I had on the backside. So I think just that sense of gratitude that I've always had for my experience made me potentially show up in in that, in that way, rather than, yes, this is what I, you know, I deserve this, this is, this is my destiny, and so you should. You should listen to me because I went to west point I've definitely met some west pointers like that.
Speaker 1:But what was it like? It was we, we a. We have to understand that it's not the typical college experience. Everybody has their assumptions of it, but it's not like going to ASU. It is drastically different. What was it like, showing up and having that first day experience?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first day is a blur. Yeah, the first day is a blur, and I have very little memory of the first day, except for, you know, I had having my brother had gone there just a few years ahead of me. I'd heard his stories and I just remember thinking, oh, this is this part. Oh, wow, everybody's yelling at me that just a lot. And the thing that I remember about that first summer in particular were those knocks on the door that came at five, 25 every morning, just get up, get up, get up. And that just it being an overwhelming experience of noise and activity.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, I got in trouble for one uncommon reason, and that was I was having a great time, I was happy, I was in the right place, and so I would be smiling and the drill sergeants would come up to me and say, god damn it, new cadet, we're not doing our job. If you're so goddamn happy, give me another 20 pushups. And I'd be like, yes, sergeant. So I don't know, maybe I love pain or something, but I think from day one I was just grateful for the experience and loved a lot about it, even the hard parts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the beauty that connects all of us. When you go to the academy or go through Enlisted or even hell, you go other ways At some point. You're going to suffer and if you just learn to enjoy it and embrace it, it's going to be a wild and fun enchanting ride. It's always the people that just get so sucked into the negativity. It's for the rest of your military career. You're going to have to deal with pain and suffering. Learn to embrace it early on. That's the greatest advice you can give anybody.
Speaker 1:You're going to do a lot of things that suck. Be willing to smile through it, be willing to be positive. It's, it's part of the process and it kicks in and it comes in. It comes into play later on because, whether you know, it's nowadays especially and we have to think we're we look back at our prior service members and I just had a marine from let's serve back in the 80s and it, like we, take peacetime service for granted. We've been at war for 20 years. We're still sort of at war no boots on the ground, official, no boots on the ground. But it's understanding that it's preparing you for those days and that time where you will have to deploy in that capacity. Whatever your job is, you'll have to do something arduous that sucks, and then you have to fall back in that experience and you went through the Academy and you branched aviation right.
Speaker 2:I did, yeah. So I branched aviation for an uncommon reason. I guess this is going to be the theme of this episode or my story. I very much wanted to be the tip of the spear. I was pumped up with the who that was the Academy. Like I said I, I loved it there. It was a good fit. It was obviously hard, but everything that the Academy stood for what we were doing overseas, it resonated to me and I wanted to be on the front lines.
Speaker 2:I wanted to be the tip of the spear and, as a woman, I graduated the Academy in 2009. As a woman, the only way that I could go combat arms was to go aviation. So that was my thought process. Now, mind you, women were going military police, women were going field artillery, women were going combat engineers, and we're very much on the front lines in a combat capacity outside of the combat arms branches. But, for whatever reason, my 20-year-old self was nope, I want to be combat arms, I want to be tip of the spear, I want to lead troops in combat as a company commander and be a combat arms branch, and that was really my motivator to branching aviation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's something that I think every that's like every little kid at least one of their top five things police officer, firefighter, doctor and be a pilot. Yep, like being able to be in the skies, like having to go from the academy into learning how to be a pilot. Like what was that translation? Like, like I have to imagine, like as soon as you branch, you probably like did you have that moment of like, oh shit, like this is really happening. Now I have to figure this next part of my life.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I had a lot of time to reflect on on that and the fact that I really wanted it because it was actually almost taken away from me. So six weeks before I graduated from the Academy I fell off of an obstacle doing a obstacle course for the Sandhurst competition. So Sandhurst is a big military training competition that they bring in all the service academies and ROTC programs and academies from abroad. Sandhurst, from the UK, comes in and it's a big military competition. So there's evaluated casualty, it's a big obstacle course and there's obstacle courses within the obstacle course. So I was representing my cadet company for Sanders and the Tuesday before the Saturday competition I we were the team was doing one last run through of the high obstacle course it's called the high cock and I fell off of one of the obstacles backwards, fell from about eight feet. I was leaping from a six-foot log to an eight-foot log. The obstacle course is called the Dirty Name. No, never forget.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I know that one, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and we have this in Nasty.
Speaker 1:Nick too, yeah, yeah, got it, got it, got it. It's horrible.
Speaker 2:Got it, got it, got it Horrible, yeah. So my my spotter that you know I can laugh about it. Now what? Almost 20 years later, my spotter spotted me going from log two of the dirty name to the log three of the dirty name. He spotted me missing and he spotted me all the way to the ground with his eyes, not not, not with his hands. So for you know, I'm helping.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lopez did a great job spotting. If Lopez is out there now, 20 years later, it's fine. I'm good you can stop feeling guilty if you still do.
Speaker 2:But so poor freshman Lopez is probably living with that guilt for his life. Maybe I'll hear this and let that go if he's still holding on to it. Life. So maybe I'll hear this and and let let that, let that go if he's still holding onto it.
Speaker 2:But, um, this is all to say that I had a burst fracture of my first lumbar vertebrae, um, and the first diagnosis or the first recommendation from the doctors was to go home, uh, take convalescent leave, recover and come, come back, graduate and not commission, because I was medically not qualified to commission.
Speaker 2:So suffice it to say that I had a lot of amazing people in my corner and I had a very strong drive to want to not only graduate but commission and serve. And I was able to be discharged back to my barracks room because my roommate said nope, we'll take care of her, we'll help her shower and dress and shine her shoes and do what needs to be done so that she can at least finish the academic requirements in order to graduate on time with the class. And then I spent almost a year at the Academy as a medical hold, fighting to get medically requalified, to get my commission and, sorry, I had my commission medically requalified to get into the aviation branch, which was a series of waivers and spine specialists at Walter Reed and really at the end of the day people in my corner advocating for me saying sign off, and so that was really hard. That year was very difficult obviously.
Speaker 2:I had to see all of my classmates go and start flight school and start their lives. Go and start flight school and start their lives. And I was back at the academy working in one of the S shops as a lieutenant and then doing physical therapy and going to yoga and just try. I hated going outside, actually between the switching of classes. This is one of my memories of that time frame, because there was so much judgment of, oh, what's that lieutenant still doing back at the academy and I hated going outside and being that lieutenant that had to salute all the cadets walking by and having them judge me. At least that's what it felt like. But anyway, suffice to say that that following year I was able to get the waivers and then join my my classmates at flight school.
Speaker 1:So yeah, what kept you and that's that's something I want to pause and reflect on that what kept you in the fight during that time period? Because what you just shared is something that many individuals go through when they get injured that shame, that guilt Like I'm not able to keep up with the rest of the pack, especially in high performance environments like you're at the fucking west point. People are willing to kill to get in there and you see everybody else from your class graduate and now, exactly you just said, all young kids, these sharks, are looking at you and you feel that impending shame like bubbling up every time you walk outside. What kept you in the fight? What was the one thing that you or multiple things that you might've leaned on?
Speaker 2:That's such a good question and I, reflecting back, I think one was the sense of purpose. I have been extremely driven always by a sense of purpose and my 21 year old self, 22 year old self, was no different. That was one, I think, a desire to achieve, for better or for worse. I think there's positive aspects of that desire at the time. There's also some of that that I now realize holds me back. Just that I need to achieve was part of it, and I think the last piece is I'm goddamn stubborn and not willing to take no for an answer. So there's just that part of me that was just like I will show you that I can do this, and that was absolutely a piece of it too. And I said I think the last thing was I felt like a lot of people stuck their necks out for me to give me a try, and I had. I didn't want to let them down. I think that's a motivator as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that's a powerful Like driving force when somebody sees potential, somebody sees something within you and you might, it might, even see, because I have to imagine, in that process and that time of healing there's probably a lot of doubt. Maybe I'm not cut out for this, maybe this is the universe telling me that this ain't my path. But you get some. You get a few people that get in your corner and they're willing to see the potential, the, the, the best part of you. Then you're like fuck dude, even if I don't believe it, I can't let Major so and so down. I can't let Lieutenant Colonel so and so down. I got to fight through this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is that resonates a lot and you talk to a lot of people on this podcast. I'm sure that have gone through similar situations and it makes me think of you know, in your darkest of darkest days, just having that one person that makes you feel like you can do it and having that be a motivator for someone else potentially in in the future. As I think about you know, my, my, life's purpose, that's man that that hits, that hits purpose.
Speaker 1:That's man that hits. That hits. Oh yeah, man we're. As human beings, we are horrible at cultivating self-compassion. We're great at self-esteem. We're brought up on sports and we learn having pride, which is not always the best thing. But when it comes to self-compassion, like we're fucking dog shit at it, we're the worst at it, we're our biggest critic. And when that voice, that nagging voice that you're the worst, you're weak, you're never going to make it.
Speaker 1:When you can't develop the alternative, that inner cheerleader dialogue, like having that one friend, that one person or mentor, that's the other thing. The importance of having mentorship in those times that's so valuable Because even when you don't want to acknowledge it, they see it and they're willing to step in. So everybody out there, stop trying to isolate. If you're going through something that's difficult, get that one personal cheerleader. Reach out, be able to connect, find a mentor that can help you, because we need that Before we can develop that positive inner dialogue. We sometimes need that positive friend, that mentor that can be that voice for us externally. Until you get that positive cheerleader going. It takes time, it's not easy.
Speaker 1:I didn't develop that until I was well in my 30s, because we're never taught this as young men or young women, we're not taught the importance of being able to say, hey, it's okay, you broke your back, take a knee, you'll be able to hit this again. That's like the weirdest thing that we don't teach our kids or our young service members the ability to say, hey, you're going to go through tough things, this is your first one. Let's take it on Like if you had that approach, if you had somebody that was willing to come in it sounds like you did. You had friends over there for you to be able to say, hey, man, I got your shoes, I'll polish them. You just focus on healing. That's important, that's a, that's an amazing thing. And then maybe later on in life you can have that full circle moment where you're able to do that for somebody else yeah, yeah, you know'm I'm having a bit of a full circle moment right now.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that this is where the this conversation was going to go, but I I think you need both. I think you need the person that's going to tell you take a knee, it's okay, you, you just went through something and I'm here for you, no matter what. And I think, back in during that timeframe, my sister actually moved in with me and, um, she's only a year older than me and she, yeah, she, she moved in with me and she was, she was that person, um, that was just, she was there through through the whole thing. I also found yoga during that timeframe and that those practitioners were very much. This is my, my quiet time. And then I also found yoga during that timeframe and that those practitioners were very much. This is my, my quiet time. And then I also had, um, I also had the people Major, andy Kane, who we would work out in the pool once I got to that point and he would talk about.
Speaker 2:He would talk about the future as if, like, that was a known entity, like that was, I was going to flight school. That was going to happen, even though there was all of this doubt? Obviously I didn't. I was medically disqualified 10 times over for going to flight school and that working out with him every day in the pool, and then we would just have conversations about what my future was going to look like without the shadow of a doubt. There was no ifs in those conversations. Was also that that balance and having both of those two things, I think was a really important recipe?
Speaker 1:never thought that is such an important thing. Such an important thing. I reflect back on a similar situation going through the warrant course absolutely fucking difficult course to go through and you have so much to fucking do and write and study and report. But when you're getting your counseling and you're talking with your, your instructor, for us, our, our is every. You have your little cohorts and your little teams or those little sections our senior warrant officer instructor never made it seem. Well, if you want to become one, if you're going to become a warrant officer, if eventually, no, it's always okay. Man, this is what's really important for when you go back to a team.
Speaker 1:That speaks differently. That speaks and same with going through the Q course becoming a Green Beret. Hey, you don't earn your beret when you walk across that fucking parade deck guys. You earn it every single fucking day when you get to your team. When you get to your team, the words that you speak as an instructor, as a mentor, matter, that resonates with that person receiving that knowledge. You're in the course, You're in the fight.
Speaker 1:Be prepared to graduate, have that feeling that you're where you're supposed to be and continue approaching that problem. That's the one thing. If you have that mentality, it's almost like survivor mentality. We get stuck in survival mode but never get to thrive mode, like oh my god, I'm gonna get cut, I'm gonna get cut, I'm not gonna make it, I'm not gonna make it.
Speaker 1:The amount of times I have been in courses with people with that mentality and they didn't make it, it's insane. But if you're just focused on that task, that one thing, what do you got today? This is what we're doing today, focused on this. We're going to get through this, I'm going to get to the end of this thing, and that's something that we can give back to our communities and service members. It's so important to continue that and that ability to overcome the physical pain, the limitations and heal and having that reinforced in your mind every single day when you're working out. That has to have been a factor in how you finally were able to get out of med hold and actually get to your career, and that's amazing yeah, thanks, and yeah I'm having a full circle moment right now.
Speaker 2:I never really thought of it that way and you articulate it very well and as as I think through, yeah, as I think through the the ups and downs that I've had in the 15 years since it's. I wish I had it packaged in that way and I think that framing is, is is really helpful. Going forward now.
Speaker 1:I like it oh yeah, welcome to Security Hall.
Speaker 2:It's what we do every day. I'm having a moment. I'm having a moment.
Speaker 1:So you finally crush it, you're able to get back. How did it feel at the time? It was Fort Rucker, still Now it's Fort.
Speaker 2:Navice. L is it. Yeah, is that brag?
Speaker 1:noble. Uh, damn, these name changes fort whirlybird. Yes, yes, the the are the armies, the armies, flights, the home of army aviation we can call it that. Yeah, you finally make it there. How was flight school? Like I'm blessed to have a few friends in that community and I've yet to meet somebody that says it's okay.
Speaker 2:I remember day one of flight school, the lead instructor.
Speaker 2:Talking about flight school is going to be hard and one day you're going to be able to strap on the aircraft and fly it. Until you get to that day, the aircraft will fly you and that evolution as I think through the eight years that I did get to fly is so true. So nickel ride, you know, is the first day that you go out and you fly with one of your instructors and that's obviously a great time because the instructors just fly in the aircraft and you're just in the passenger seat and it's a great time. It's really day two that flight school begins and I think the most brave humans in some of the most brave humans in the army are primary instructors at flight school because those motherfuckers are really what they're.
Speaker 2:You can't really teach somebody to fly a helicopter. You basically have to keep the helicopter in the air until the student figures it out for themselves. It's a very kinesthetic type of operation that you cause. You have to move your hands, and everything you do with your hands, you know your right hand affects your left hand, and your right and left hand together affect your feet, and there's a certain brain mapping that has to happen to figure it out. And in the meantime, the tail stinger, as you're trying to hover, is hitting the deck, and that's what primary instructors are really trying to do is keep the aircraft in the air and keep you from dying until you can figure out all of the different mechanics that are necessary in order to hover, take off land. So, yeah, primary for me was it was a struggle.
Speaker 2:I am not a what they call a natural stick. And what's what's cool, though, about flight school and I'm sure there's some intentionality to this pairing is you have a stick buddy, so the instructor and is the instructor for two students at any given time, and my stick buddy was very much a natural stick, for whatever reason he, the fluidity with which he flew the aircraft was very natural to him in a way that wasn't for me. Now there's some hypotheses of you go play video games and Mario Kart and flight sim. That translates really easily, whereas for me I was an athlete and I was a nerd. I did not have that aspect of my life. I never was really a gamer or really wasn't dreaming about being a pilot from the time I was a little kid. Like I said, I went aviation because I wanted to be combat arms, not necessarily because I want to be a pilot.
Speaker 2:Anyway, that's all to say that my stick buddy was a great natural stick but not as quick of a study. I was academically always strong, so I was a quick study and knew all the emergency procedures and kind of got the hold of the academics really quickly and not a natural stick. So we were a great pairing because he would help me. We would go to the Microsoft Flight Simulator, do all the things that studying the actual mechanics of the aircraft and how to fly, and he was very helpful to me in that respect and I helped him study emergency procedures. So it was just another one of lots of examples of the military experience that really it's your battle buddy that gets you through. And we were each other's battle buddy through and through and that's what definitely got me through flight school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the beauty of a lot of these courses. You're not. Unless you're going through selection, you're working with somebody trying to learn at the same time. Developing those bonds are crucial. You have to be able to find your strengths and how it applies to somebody else's weakness to be able to help them. Like at the end of the day, you're not graduating alone, like you're going to be flying on your own, but you know you're gonna have that wingman. You have somebody with you. Developing that ability to talk and work like that is so important.
Speaker 1:Like yeah we move and you transition to civilian world where people don't have like that teamwork experience, where it's like, oh hey, like, let's work together, let's enhance each other's capabilities. That's one thing that I realized that makes us powerful team members. On the outside, we know the importance of working together and enhancing each other's capabilities.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep. You know, one cool thing about flight school and to that point, that I hadn't thought of is there's you can actually say this about all military schools there's a point that everyone struggles or fails, because flight school is not only the actual learning how to fly the aircraft, but the first part of flight school is dunker, so you learn how to escape from the aircraft if it, if it goes down under underwater, so they flip you over on a chair. First is it two day, and there's people there that really struggle because they grew up in the inner city, they're not used to swimming. And for other people I grew up in New Jersey, I grew up on the beach, water doesn't scare me at all. So that part was, you know, not a huge struggle, but for others it was.
Speaker 2:And then there's SEER school survive, evade, rescue and rescue and escape where you know you're out in the woods and you're doing land nav and you're in the enemy preserve war camp for a certain period of time and you know ups and downs there. And then there's the academics and then there's the actual uh, flying portion. So there's there's something for everyone and there's a struggle for everyone, and once, once you realize that no one is great at everything. You really come to terms with the fact that a great team is so much better together than the sum of its individual parts.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Very rarely will you find somebody that is just amazing at everything, where there is hardly any weaknesses. That's very rare. I think it's a misconception. That's another myth that we need to be able to kill. Everybody has an area where they can improve on, where they're not 100% on, and militaries, and every MOS, every school you go to. There's a great way to figure out what your weakness is. They will find it, especially in Sears School.
Speaker 2:And exploit it. And exploit it, yeah, in Sears school and exploit it and exploit it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, sears school, wow yeah, that is especially.
Speaker 2:We can have a whole episode on Sears school. I said we can have a whole episode on Sears school, but we can't talk about Sears school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the one thing that it's so. It's so amazing reflecting. And then you guys have your own, we have our own within the Q course. That's the one phase that I think remains pure, because everybody understands how important it is to not give out an EG2, to not give out any sort of cheat. First of all, you can't cheat any part of it. I can't give you a cheat code from going hungry. That's just. Yeah, I'm sorry there's nothing out there.
Speaker 1:But then the whole experience, the whole thing, and people are always trying. You go to Reddit. There's people trying to ask questions about it. Like, dude, just experience what you're going for. You're going through a job that you're going to eventually go through and experience what Sierra is. Just experience it. Don't try to G2 it, don't try to game it.
Speaker 1:That's why the QCORs always change it. It always evolves and people always throw lots of temper tantrums. Oh, they're making the QCORs easier, they're readjusting this. Whatever man, you're not in charge, I'm not in charge, who cares? It's still going to produce great individuals, same with any sort of a military school. That's really difficult. Everybody always gets upset when something changes. But Sears School is Sears School and if you're out there listening and you're going to be going become an aviator, you're going to become a pilot or you're going to become a green beret and you're wondering what it's like. Just imagine the worst day possible, imagine the absolute worst day in your life, and then amplify it by 10. But it's good, it's, it's a great experience. I'll tell you like that. I've never, never been colder, I've never been hungrier. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know what else to. I don't have anything to add. You're right, you can't get the G2. You have to experience it it and everyone's experience is different, even in the exact same class. It's like wait, that happened to you.
Speaker 1:Wait, yeah absolutely, absolutely, oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, it's uh man that's good shit, that's very good I am. That's one of the things I'm so glad that we still have and, uh, people still get to enjoy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's such a I'm I'm sure your experience is similar it's such a well run at least, and it has to be. It has to be to have the impact that it has, and I'm very grateful for that experience as well. I will tell you that there was a part of the reason that I chose Blackhawks, which is a dual engine aircraft, was because of my experiences at flight school. I was like I'm not flying a single engine aircraft aircraft and I prefer to stay up in the sky.
Speaker 2:That's when my realization of like being an aviator really started to hit, I was like yeah, yeah, I prefer to stay up here rather than down here and and experience, uh, sears school 2.0, which yeah, hell yeah, so you were, so you got.
Speaker 1:So obviously you wanted blackhawk and you got blackhawk. Were any of your friends hoping for specific aircraft? They didn't get it and were completely crushed, or is everybody at the end of the day just excited because they're they're going to fly a helicopter?
Speaker 2:you know I'm trying to think of most of my closest friends got their first choice of aircraft and it's also true that every flight school class is different. Some flight school classes have lots of Blackhawks, a couple of Apaches and vice versa. So really the debate is always with Blackhawks and Apaches and my experience was there were people in my class that got forced Apaches and I love to tell my Apache pilot friends that, yeah, apaches were the bottom of the class, but then two classes later you know it's the opposite. Blackhawks are the bottom of the class. But I will say that Chinooks always go out first. It's that that's. For whatever reason. There's the rarity of them. There's just not as many in the Army's arsenal. There's one or none in every flight school class and that's usually the top, the topic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love our Chinook pilots. That's how we get to the job. Man, that's like, let me tell you you can talk shit about Chinooks and leaks and they're broken, or how often there are maintenance issues. You can complain about them. Complain about them all you want until you get the call and you have to go on Afghan air and special mission air wing comes to pick you up. Let me tell you something you can complain. You'll complain all day until you put yourself in one of those old, busted ass Russian helicopters that have no way of communicating with you and you're just like trying to clip in on rusted D-rings and you're like, fuck, is this thing going to make it? That is the quickest way to make somebody appreciate our CH-47s. Do a couple missions on Afghan air, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:I can't. Imagine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're the absolute worst. It makes you quickly appreciate the ability to talk to your American pilot and be able to talk them in when they're coming to pick you up for Exville. Very, very, very appreciative for what you guys do. And what was your first unit when you made it out?
Speaker 2:So the first unit that I went to was the National Training Center at Fort Irwin. No, way. Oh, yeah. So picture a uh, a young Lieutenant who spent a year on medical holds and really gone into deploy, gone into deploy and then a year and change in flight school and I was like graduate flight school, let's go. I want to go to a deploying unit, put me in the fight coach and I get stationed at a non-deploying unit in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, so that. Oh, by the way, did not have Blackhawks.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, yep, so record scratch.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, yep, yep. So I have to tell this story for one of my best friends from West Point, kat McNair, and I hope she listens to. My flight school class was going through before I did and she texted me that I was going to Fort Irwin and I was walking into the simulator for one of my last Blackhawk simulator courses. I saw her text and I thought it was a joke. I was like Catherine is messing with me and just forgot about it.
Speaker 2:Did my simulator course, drove over to the Flight School 21 headquarters and she was sitting in there doing her office job as she was waiting for her course to start, and I'll never forget this moment. I walked in, I took off my patrol cap and I threw it across the room at her and I said funny joke, haha, where am I actually going? Because NTC was not on the list of places you could go when we could rack and stack it. It was. It didn't have Blackhawks, and so I. It was known as being the worst place that you could be stationed as a you know host.
Speaker 1:Just in general.
Speaker 2:People love NTC, but like I don't want to hate too much but yes, so I thought she was.
Speaker 2:there are crazy, crazy, maybe crazy people yeah it's a great place to not deploy for two years and raise a family, I guess, um, but for, uh, you know, for me at that time, worst nightmare. So I will never forget her face. Her face just dropped and she goes. Kristen, I am so sorry and it was true. So if I said to say that, um, I say that a lot I. If I said to say that, um, I say that a lot, I realized. If I said to say I fought like crazy to try to get out of that assignment, I called everyone I knew and which I'm a fricking Lieutenant who do I know. But I like, appealed to the general of the aviation branch and it can, he was. He came back down and no, kristin, you're going to ndc.
Speaker 2:So went through all the stages of grief, had to accept that realization and yes, spent the first two years of my aviation career at the national training Center and I look at everything in rose colored glasses and also the people who supported me along the way that I have a lot of gratitude for. I ended up falling under the general support company, which I got trained in the Lakota the EC-145, which the army only has a couple of those. So I landed there as a Blackhawk pilot and right away I went to the EC-145 course and I fell under the support company, which was like 10 Lakotas or 12 Lakotas at the time, and the company commander of the support company was like you're a young lieutenant, ben Sad, you're listening to this, you're a young lieutenant and I'm going to make sure that you get the training that you need to make you ready for your next assignment. And again back to the Andy Kane in the pool story. It wasn't.
Speaker 2:If it was, it was when and he very much treated me that way and gave me the opportunities and the skill sets that I needed to ultimately be successful in a combat platoon leader role, which I did end up getting, and then ultimately combat company commander role, which I got subsequently, and so it ended up being a great two years. From a career perspective, I flew my butt off. I was a warrant officer practically because I was flying missions three to four days a week, which now, in hindsight, looking back in my a lot of my peers their first assignments were staff and from the lieutenants were staff and they didn't get the same amount of flight time and flight experience that I was able to get in my first assignment and then my second assignment. It really set me up for success in that second assignment because I stepped in to a platoon leader role. Already, having been an air mission commander, I've had 500 flight hours and that was a rarity, especially at that time.
Speaker 1:And yeah, that's that again. That's the universe, putting you in the right place at the right time, like at first, exactly. Ntc is like fuck, you couldn't pay me to go there, dog.
Speaker 2:Every time you have to do a pre-mission training.
Speaker 1:You get NTCs like fuck no. But like look what it did for you, like that's amazing being able to have that ability and another great leader that stood up and said no, like this is not what you think. This is going to be a step towards the right direction. When you get to your next spot, you're going to be like you're because it is competition like.
Speaker 1:That's what a lot of people don't realize about when you're an officer it is definitely a competition Like you guys are friends, you're meant to you're, you're helping each other out but at the end of the day, like you're going against your peers for the next slot or a command or a position or a deployment, it's ruthless and he, he did right by you.
Speaker 2:He took care of you and that's amazing. Like that is great leadership. Not only that, but I do also. I would be remiss not to say what was awesome about that assignment is I was one Lieutenant in the whole company of W2s, threes and fours, whereas the usually it's the other way around.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of lieutenants that are trying to get RL progressed, and those warrant officers took such good care of me, taught me everything that I needed to know.
Speaker 2:Well, not everything I need to know to be a successful pilot. From talking on the radios in the LA basin because we flew in the LA basin in Vegas all the time and Mike Carrillo, if you're listening to this, he would really drive home that you need to sound like a professional aviator while you're flying in this busy airspace and that was really drilled into my head to just tactical flying 10 feet above the deck, through mountain ranges, landing in dust with a really finicky aircraft. 10 feet above the deck, through mountain ranges, landing in dust, with a really finicky aircraft. All of that that those warrant officers who had two, three, four, five deployments under their belts at that time and thousands of flight hours. I just got to soak up all of their knowledge at that timeframe, which served me for the rest of my aviation career and even still, I just have such a deep respect for the expertise that they shared career and even still, I just have such a deep respect for the expertise that they shared with me at that base.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, that's what chiefs are supposed to do. That is amazing. That is such a great story and for anybody listening that's curious about what it takes to be a flight warrant, like masters of their profession, that's absolutely it. Man, like that's you want to go do that job. The reality is you have to become a master of that profession. Like there's technical proficiency, there's warrant officers everywhere. There's um, a lot of them shout out PBO, the worst.
Speaker 1:Don't mind saying that Supply Guys come on Just wasting allocated funds and stealing resources. But on the other end, you have flight warrants and I'm blessed to know a couple and they're absolute experts in their field and they love what they do, while their bodies are failing them. They want to stay in the seat, they want to continue flying, but it's like man, like you can't tell somebody. That's like completely doing the one thing they've always wanted to do, like to take a knee and walk away from it. Because I think it's different. There's something about the fact that you're in the sky, you're a pilot, you've mastered this profession. It's so difficult. It always seems like it's really hard to get those guys, those gals, to be able to say hey, man, you're older, now Take a step back, figure out your life. There's other things to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you're right, so many of them just love it. Talk about the strapping, getting to the point that you're strapping the aircraft to you and it becomes a part of you, to you and it becomes a part of you that that is so true. I think for a lot of the w3s, w4s and taking off the aircraft is taking off a part of them.
Speaker 1:In a lot of ways, I think it'd be really zen or meta to have uh angel or one of the w4s that get out and explain what that must feel like, because, yeah, you mastered it, like you mastered that machine and that whole concept, like, yeah, when you finally got to that deployment where you're finally the tip of the spear, you're finally in combat, what was that like? This is like the culminating, this is the thing like and this comparable to everybody that finally gets their deployment, finally gets to punch that ticket all right now combat.
Speaker 2:What was that? Like I have to. I feel like I got to my first deploying unit and it was fort bliss, texas, and I reported to the battalion commander and said you know, I'd just been promoted to captain, captain brown, reporting for duty, and he, he looked me up and down and said I don't let women on the line.
Speaker 1:What the fuck.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:This isn't 1954. Get the fuck out of here.
Speaker 2:Yep, and thankfully there was someone else in that unit who I had served with in my last unit. He had gotten to Fort Bliss right ahead of me and he knew who I was and he had recommended that I do go down to the line and get the platoon leader time. Rick, I'll always be thankful for that. For another W-4 who looked out for me, and so he looked me up and down and said I don't let women on the line, but you come recommended, so I'll make an exception. The line, but you come recommended, so I'll make an exception. Don't get pregnant before the deployment. And yeah, so I'll never forget that. And it yeah, that shouldn't have been said, it was um, but I was very driven.
Speaker 1:It's more than that. Shouldn't have been said that the reality of when this was what?
Speaker 2:20, 12, 20, 12. Yeah, yeah, you're good with your timelines, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like the idea that just because you're a woman, you're not capable, or like, dude, get the fuck out of here. Like that myth has already been crushed several fucking times, many a fucking times over, and since the beginning of GY. Like how the fuck does and and that's just the. The fact that individuals like that continue to promote and they continue to stay in the military. That's a fucking huge problem.
Speaker 2:Like that is a huge problem.
Speaker 2:To to their defense. Um, they had not experienced, had a lot of experience with female officers, female aviators, female pilots, and so that's one of the difficulties of being an other, whatever that other is. For me in the military it was oftentimes I am the only woman. There is a sense of obligation and burden that's on your shoulders to be that one that that individual has experienced to be the best, and that is very much something that was a driving force in me and for better or for worse, that was a driver and I am very proud to say, after that experience of being in that unit and going through that deployment, that same individual I flew with I think it was the last flight that I had on that deployment. I flew with that individual and he looked at me and said I was wrong and thank you. And that to me was, if I can change one heart and mind and change that mindset, that is a big driving force for me.
Speaker 1:It's hard to see that as a leader, as a leader in an organization, in a unit who influences young service members, it might not speak it or maybe something. It's just one of those things where it's like, how do you get to that point in your career where you're still looking at individuals within your company and judging them based on you know, happen to be a woman? Like I admit it just blows my mind Like and I would imagine that that definitely left a chip on your shoulder like how did you, having that initial like that that sets the bar, like immediately, that sets the bar of like how hard you have to fucking work for the entire time you're in that unit, Like I can't take a break.
Speaker 2:I can't look weak. And I'll be honest that even telling that story on a recorded line is a little bit terrifying to me still, but I now know that it's been the healing and reflecting that I've done just in the last couple of years that has allowed me to realize the impact that that had on me. If you asked me five, even five years ago.
Speaker 2:I probably one wouldn't have ever told you the story and to be able to understand and realize the impacts that it had had on me for years later. And not only could I not heal from it, I didn't even know it was there. And so it's that realization that you have to come to and then the healing process that is that comes after.
Speaker 2:That is a recent, a relatively recent phenomenon, I would say to the point our earlier conversation that I told you that I I've recently realized that I have feelings that are, you know, beyond anger.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the crew, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's great. When you numb, you numb everything, and for me, numbing was in the form of achievement for a long time, yeah was in the form of achievement for a long time and, and you know then, then, when you realize, oh wait, I have. I have sadness, I have frustration, I have joy, I have this whole wheel of emotions that exists beyond anger, and you start sitting with all those and you start reflecting. That's when, yeah, that's when healing happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's especially important to talk about this because in our GWAT history, you know, women have played a huge role and for the guys on the ground, like, one of the greatest and most important things for your mission is your infill, your exfil and your close air support.
Speaker 1:And you know how many fucking times you you hear your jtac call on and it's a female pilot that's coming in to save your ass or coming up to pick you up. Like, fuck, yeah, dude, like, that's, that's your dude, those are, those are your, your fellow service members like having the understanding that it does. I don't give a fuck who it is like, I don't give a fuck what gender they're coming in to fucking save my ass. Hell, yes, dude, like and I know that frustration isn't like easily removed after you experience all that like unchecked stupidity throughout your career and little micro moments of like judgment. But from people on the ground, people that have flown with you, I guarantee people are appreciative of your skill set and what you do for and what you did for us, for every person you've flown. Like, how many, if, if you've ever struggled with the, the understanding of, like man did I, was I good enough, I'm like, trust me, the people that flew in the back of that helicopter.
Speaker 2:They were fucking appreciative, a hundred percent yeah, and and I, I came to the point that you know through my platoon leader time and then my my company command time. That was my experience, especially in in command I. I was the first female that my particular company saw. I took over a completely male unit and no shit oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, I did end up playing with one other female pilot and one female crew member, so in the team of 42 there was three women, but when I took over it was 40, 40 guys, holy shit. But the the vast majority was a couple thought it was really cool. A couple were like this is awful, and then the vast majority in the middle just wanted me to be a professional which is what I want to do With that that's you know.
Speaker 2:I just I wanted to be a part of the team. Obviously, there's differences, but the mission and the purpose is all the same, and that was the vast majority of the others that I interacted with pilots, mechanics, senior officers what have you was? If I get shot in the head, are you going to be able to get me back to base? And that's really what the vast majority of people cared about at the end of the day. And then there's always a couple of outliers, and outliers are our outliers yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:I just always to make my ignorance is like, oh dude, there's it just. I always assumed it was just. Equally, you just had a whole like a broad mix of female and male pilots. Like that's a. I never understood. Like just to hear from you that you were one of just maybe two other female pilots, I'm like, holy shit, like it's just. Is it still that? Like I don't want to say segre, but it just is are there still just that few female pilots out there? I thought that there were just more.
Speaker 2:That to me seems crazy. Yeah, I'm trying to think. In every company that I was in, I was either one of one or one of two. So are there companies out there, perhaps, that all the female pilots go?
Speaker 1:to maybe, yeah, I just always assume like this from my experience uh, it just seems like you want the smartest people out there and I would always say like, okay, I would edge out like there's got to be more intelligent females that want to become aviators. Like it just seems like a fair, uh, because in the fixed wing world, like my wife's air force, like I've been able to meet and see and and talk with her, like you meet more female aviators or wizos, like on that side. So I was just always thinking like, oh, army aviation, it's got to be open field, there's got to be lots of females in there. But shit, man, you were in the fight having to represent for Team Woman your entire career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd be curious to actually look up the stats. I don't even want to say what the stats are because I truly don't know, but they're probably higher than my personal experience.
Speaker 1:Like if.
Speaker 2:I was one of one in a team of 20 pilots. It's probably higher than that, but I don't know, I guess, where I ended up landing each time no pun intended hey.
Speaker 1:So you do your combat time, you're able to actually be a company commander. Now, at that point everybody would just assume like okay, you're, this is going to be your career, you're going to do this forever. Like what made you take a step back and assess and realize that maybe this wasn't going to be the forever gig.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's such a good question. I really do feel like I spent eight years just on auto drive and it was NTC. Then it was my first deploying unit as a platoon leader. Then it was the captain's career course. Then it was I commanded at a Fort Carson and I was at, got to Fort Carson, was on staff for just a couple of months and then went to, went to the unit I was going to command and that was always, if you asked me as a cadet, that was the goal. The goal was to lead a company in combat. And then in flight school it became I want to lead an assault company in combat and so many young aviators say that, or so many young cadets said that at the time I want to lead a company in combat and then so many aviators I want to lead an assault company in combat. And I got to do that. I got all of those prerequisites that time at NTC that I got a lot of flight time and was able to have semi mastery in my craft and then deploying as a platoon leader and then deploying as a company commander, that was the crown jewel of being a young captain and that experience was incredible is hard to say, because there was so many high highs and so many low lows. So many high highs and so many low lows. But incredible is a good way to describe it being able to take over the unit and come up with a training plan to get everyone ready for combat and then deploy with those guys and the mission really became the guys to my left and the guys to my right and bringing everyone home safely and accomplishing the mission on the ground. But, to be honest, it was in my mind. I just really felt much more about the former than the latter, and it was really halfway through that second deployment that I said what else is out there, in moments of pause, and that was just it.
Speaker 2:I knew that that next assignment that I was going to have was going to lock me in for a period of time. So I knew I wanted to do some type of advanced education and so opportunities to go get an advanced degree and then go be a TAC at West Point, or get an advanced degree and then go back to the regular Army, or there were some internships that I was looking at to work in the Pentagon for a period of time. But regardless, school was my next step and so anytime the Army invests in you to go to school or the military invests in you to go to school, you owe on the backside and so it was okay. If I want to get a two-year advanced degree, everything else that would have to happen.
Speaker 2:After that I started to explore and I had known some people that had gone to business school and I had the opportunity to talk to mentors who had stayed, had gotten out, mentors who had stayed in during that second employment in Afghanistan.
Speaker 2:I was like there was some downtime that I did have time to reflect and I decided that I wanted to apply to business school and really at that time I was not ready to make the decision to get out, because I knew that I had the option to go to business school and then go back to the army.
Speaker 2:Afterwards. I had a I forget what the program was called, but I had basically like advanced civil schooling that I was guaranteed if I could get into a school, the army would pay for it and then I would potentially stay in the army, because that would be a way that I could get a generalized education and then go back to the army and do some general management. And there was a piece of me, because I was still remember, like in the thick of things, that I wouldn't even allow myself to think that I was going to get out after this deployment, because I was just so in it. But if I wanted to go to business school in the next PCS cycle, then I had to apply while I was still downrange. So I did.
Speaker 2:I actually had a GRE that I had taken three years prior that I was able to use for my business school applications because I was running around applying and didn't have time to take the GMAT and I kind of threw my hat in the ring and said I'll apply, let's see what happens.
Speaker 2:And it really wasn't. Until I got home and visited a couple of different business tools, my aperture went from this to this and if you're just listening you know I kind of have blinders eye between my hands. And then it opened my eyes when I got back from that second deployment and visiting schools of higher education what everyone else in my peer group had been up to for the last 10 years while I was training to deploy and deploying. And really that was a switch that turned in my brain of I don't know exactly what I'm going to do when I get out. In my brain of I don't know exactly what I'm going to do when I get out, but if I get into a top business school I can't do that for two years, explore a lot of different things and then go back into the military after.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. It's crazy when you reflect after serving for so long and look at your, your peer group on the outside, what everybody's doing. The first time I did that, I realized that a vast majority of people that I knew that had gotten out or never went in like I already had like adult kids. What the fuck? What have I been doing?
Speaker 2:it's like jesus yeah, yeah, I remember so viscerally the tour of Harvard Business School and the woman who was leading the tour was just. She was expressing all the things that she was working on at school and outside of school and they were just concepts that I had not ever thought about and that, to me, was exciting and appealing and I said, wow, what else is out there? Can I be a part of that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you punched out and then you found yourself doing what everyone eventually has to do, which is go through transition, and what was yours like? Because it's not always easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that transition is often discussed as a point of time like, oh, the day that you hang up the uniform, or oh, your first year, oh, your first job. And I want to be very clear that I am still going through that transition. I mean, just this conversation is you just taught me some aha things that I hadn't thought about in years, and so I think that's a point that I just want to make here of. I do believe that people get stuck because they think that a transitioning from the military or from any real major phase of your life is something that you should get through in some defined period of time, and that is just fundamentally untrue, which is a big thing that we talk about at Huts for Vets, which is the nonprofit that I'm now a part of, is we serve veterans from all different phases of life, all different aspects of the military, because that transition is a constant process and as new experiences happen, as you go through new phases of your life, you realize that you're still processing and transitioning. So, for what it's worth, I think that that's really important to say.
Speaker 2:For me, business school was absolutely the first chapter of my transition. I always have thrived in academic environments. I've always loved school. I just I have you know that that theme runs through, really through through my life. So there was parts of that that were I loved. There were other parts of that that were very difficult.
Speaker 2:That first year, sitting in my business school classroom and just a lot of anger, because there were people that had had such different life experiences and some of the problems that they were expressing or struggles that they were going through, to me at the time very much seemed menial. Much seemed menial and I felt very unseen and misunderstood, like I was trying to tell a story to one of my classmates at early days and I forget what the story was about. But there was an aspect of the story that involves incoming indirect fire and that was just a part of the story that I was telling. I was like, yeah, and the indirect fire was coming and there was, you know, shrapnel that were hitting the base and and then blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:That wasn't the point of the story, but it was important because it was a part of the sequence of events and the individual I was talking to was like, wait, what Indirect fire, shrapnel? Like couldn't get through. Like that part of the story which to me was just part of everyday life, and to her she was like who, what? Who are you so what? What is this girl talking about? You know?
Speaker 1:not that hard to understand, rebecca, just follow the story along, yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:so just learning how to relate to people that have had different experiences to me was a part of business school as well, and not only learning how to relate and how to be a chameleon in those types of environments, but then also how to show up as authentically myself and unapologetically myself and find my people. Within the insanity that is often business school took absolutely some time. That I didn't have to fit into every environment, that I didn't have to, you know, be somebody that I wasn't, but just really figuring out who I was in this different environment was part of that transition, absolutely.
Speaker 1:That's something that a lot of us need to understand. You're leaving a not just a job, a profession, a career, but also a community. That's very different, and it's OK. It doesn't have to be this culture shock that we have to carry on our sleeves and always bemoan and be upset about which is something I hear all the time Fucking civilians. They don't understand what it's like. Well, guess what? You're a civilian too. Yes, you serve, yes, you're a veteran, but now you are a civilian that within the population, there will be people you get along with, or we. There will be people that you can talk with and have common. You know things to discuss and you don't have to be appealing to everybody, but you do have to assimilate.
Speaker 2:Totally, totally. And and you know, I think that that is such an important point, denny, because once I really that first year was really hard for me, it was the second year that I started to open up a lot more, open myself up a lot more to those around me, which then allowed them to open up to me and we could have these really authentic, meaningful connections and conversations and realize that we have a lot in common with one another. And yes, like being a veteran is a piece of my experience and, yes, it is not a piece of yours, but your struggles and pains and experiences are just as real and visceral as mine have been, even though they've been in very different environments?
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. How did you find yourself getting involved in the nonprofit space?
Speaker 2:yourself getting involved in the nonprofit space, yeah, yeah. So I think it's really important to talk about the history of the 10th Mountain Division Hutt system, which then leads to Huts for Vets, which then leads to how I got involved. So one thing that I knew to be absolutely true when I was transitioning out of the military and going to business school was where I found peace and solace was in the great outdoors, and that really led me to move to Colorado after business school, because I knew that, regardless of where my career was going to go after business school, I wanted my life to be in Colorado, and because there's just the accessibility to the great outdoors, that was I got out of the army at Fort Carson, colorado, and so I had some experience living in Colorado and so I wanted to come back to Colorado. So that was in 2019. I moved to Colorado, to Denver specifically, and found out about the 10th Mountain Division hut system, which is a series of huts out in the Colorado wilderness, and the genesis of this hut system. It was actually built by veterans of. The concept was built by veterans of World War Two who had trained in the Colorado wilderness.
Speaker 2:No-transcript, I found the 10th Mountain Division hut system just in. Friends of mine in the area knew about that wilderness, backcountry experience and took me out to my first hut trip, I think in 2019, 2020. And every time that I went out to these huts I had this just almost spiritual experience, because they are their backcountry cabins that exist anywhere from a half mile to 10 miles from the nearest trailhead, but they have wood-burning stoves, they have kitchens that are gas-generated, they have bunk beds and it's just such a cool environment to connect with nature and connect with those that are at the hut with you. And so I really found it. I found the 10th mountain division hut system through my civilian friends um, back to you know that that interconnection and did a few hut trips uh, 2020, 2021, during COVID. You had to rent out the whole hut. So it was, uh, you know, you had to get a group of friends and rent out the whole thing because you couldn't just do it do a bed because of the COVID. Um, so, through that met, sorry, through that I was just part of the 10th Mountain Division newsletter.
Speaker 2:Every quarter I would get the newsletter and I would read up on it, because I was like the history of this is such a cool thing, the concept I was just obsessed with and it was one of those newsletters that I got, I would read it every quarter that there was a little advertisement for Huts for Vets and it was just a little blurb of what Huts for Vets was and it was framed as wilderness therapy for veterans and we bring veterans out into the wilderness, into the 10th Mountain Division Hut system to heal and that interconnection of the fact that it's the 10th Mountain Division, then the Vietnam era veterans are very involved in the 10th Mountain Division Hut system. And then now moving to the 9-11 era, and it kind of told that through thread of the story in the newsletter and I was like whoa, this is the coolest thing that there's an organization out there that is leveraging the history of the 10th Mountain Division, the infrastructure that is now the Hutt system, to take now the next generation of 9-11 veterans and heal them through the wilderness. So I was like I have to get involved. So that's literally how it happened. I saw an ad in the newsletter and this was gosh, this was just under a year ago, I want to say Maybe late winter of last year.
Speaker 2:So I Googled it, I tried to figure out who I could reach out to. I Googled it, you know, I tried to figure out who who I could reach out to and I found, through the Googling process, ryan Del Grosso is now the executive chairman of the board, who had taken over the board from the founder. I didn't know that at the time and we can go through that whole history, but I reached out to him directly and said hey, man, I just found out this 10th Mountain Division HUD system, what's it all about? And I messaged him on LinkedIn and he messaged me back and he was like hey, we're actually looking for someone like you to serve on the board, because I had military experience, I had some business experience at business school and create much more infrastructure around the nonprofit so that we can grow it and serve more vets. And he said if you're interested, let's hop on a call.
Speaker 2:So that's how I got involved. And when he he told me about some of the history which we can go into if that's helpful, um, but at the end of the day I he invited me on the first big uh, the fundraiser that they do every year is at the Aspen uh, sorry, aspen Golf Center in Carbondale and he said this is our big fundraiser, that it's the Veterans Cup. We get together with three nonprofits and that was the first event that I went to, formerly for Hunts for Vets, and then after that he invited me on a trip. Then after that he invited me on a trip. After experiencing one of the trips myself, I said, okay, yep, I'm all in, how can I help? Joined the board just officially about two months ago.
Speaker 1:Nice. That's awesome being involved in these programs. I have to imagine that when you're able to help others, it helps you in so many other ways, because it's like one thing that I realized when you're challenged and dealing with so much, if you can get to the point where you can help others, it benefits you even more. Have you been able to feel that sort of like, like receiving that, that that ability to say like, wow, like I'm actually like being able to be of service to others? I'm being able to like let go of some of the things, some of the regrets from leaving or any of the issues that you might have been having troubles processing?
Speaker 2:without a shadow of a doubt in so many ways, in so many ways I mean. I still sometimes struggle with what do I have to offer for so long?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:For so long it was clear. I think I had such a clear direction when I was in the military that I knew what I had to offer. I knew what I was there for. And then getting out and going to business school and then working in corporate America, there were moments that I felt like flickers of like, oh, I can do this, or oh, I'm good at this, or oh, I understand the value that I'm adding here, but never so much of a driving force as during my time in the military and part of being in the or in the Hudson for Vets organization and being on the board.
Speaker 2:It has blended a lot of those things together for me and and it's sometimes it's the little things I love to like work on the, on the financials of. We did a little bit of a financial exercise after the first board meeting that I was a part of, um, the executive director and I and it was. It was awesome to pull some threads together and say, okay, yeah, I, I I do know something and have something to offer because of not only my military experience but the experiences that I've had since and have a lot to still put into the world I suppose yeah, that's something that all of us need to remember.
Speaker 1:When you leave the military, you're not leaving everything that you learned, everything you experienced, your ability to command, your ability to be an effective leader, your ability to guide, coach and mentor others. When you take that uniform off, all those attributes don't stay, they don't get hung up in that company area to hand off to the next person.
Speaker 1:That's all coming with you. Everything that made you an amazing leader, an amazing service member, is coming with you. And organizations, whether it's in the private sector or nonprofit world, or wherever you go, start your own business, be an entrepreneur All those things are still with you. You just have to wake up each day and for a while and remind yourself you're still that same capable person. Eventually, when you find your footing, when you find your path, you won't have to do the daily reminders. But for a while, be willing to write it up on the whiteboard, be willing to put it up in your medicine cabinet in that mirror and say like I'm still this person of service, I'm still this person of service, I'm still this great leader. It's a little exercise, try it out.
Speaker 1:It's incredibly difficult to transition. It's incredibly difficult to walk into that boardroom and find that confidence. But I'm telling you, borrow some of Kristen's, borrow some of mine, or some of your mentors, some of your friends out there. You're still somebody who has so many tools and so much to offer the world. Don't play small. It never served you in the military and it never will in the civilian world.
Speaker 1:Be willing to walk into your next chapter confident, resilient and with the same grit and determination that made you an amazing service member. Whether you're an awesome pilot like Kristen, or you were a a ranger, navy SEAL, paratrooper 88, mike, whatever you were, understand that you bring so many resources and so much power to that next endeavor in your life. You're better suited when you're able to remind yourself that, on a daily basis, you're going to get through it and don't go after the low-hanging fruit. Be willing to dare and go after something big. I'm telling you right now, if your next chapter doesn't scare you a little bit, you're going after the wrong thing. You just are. You're absolutely going after the wrong thing. Let it scare you. Let it be such a big dream that you're fucking scared out of your mind. You're not alone.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:We're there with you. Oh, fucking scared out of your mind. You're not alone. We're there with you. Kristen, thank you so much for being here and for being vulnerable enough to share your story. If we want to find out more about Huts for Vets, where do we go?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so our amazing executive director just redesigned our website, hutsforvetsorg, so that's the best place that you can learn more about what Huts for Vets is our mission and also how to donate. We also have links at hutsforvetsorg to our Instagram and our YouTube channel, so go check us out there as well. On YouTube, you can just look for vets and Instagram and you can hear more stories about the life-changing wilderness therapy experience that we have now served almost 400 veterans through.
Speaker 1:Wow, kristen, I can't thank you enough for being here today To all y'all listening. Thank you for tuning in and remember, share the show like, share, follow. Send us to your friends, your enemies, people you like, people you don't. Uh, to all y'all listening. Thank you for tuning in and uh, remember, share the show like, share, follow. Send us to your friends, your enemies, people you like, people you don't like. Send it to anybody. We truly appreciate it here and uh. Until we see y'all next time, take care, if you like what we're doing and you enjoying the show, don't forget to share us, like us, subscribe.
