Security Halt!
The only Mental Health podcast that shares honest and authentic accounts of living with mental health issues, that's also hosted by individuals fighting the same fight you are!Providing information and resources for help with a heavy dose of humor and entertainment. Helping you find hope and the strength to fight on.
Security Halt!
#216 Josh Skovlund of “Task &Purpose” on TBI, Healing, and Truthful Journalism
Josh Skovlund, opens up about his journey through military service, the challenges of transitioning to civilian life, and his personal battle with health issues. Originally aiming to become a PJ in the Air Force, Josh's path led him to the Ranger Regiment as a forward observer. His story takes a dramatic turn as he faces severe health problems, including a TBI and a brain cyst, which eventually resulted in his military discharge.
In this conversation, Josh shares how alternative approaches like meditation, yoga, and self-care have helped him manage his mental and physical health. He discusses how therapy played a vital role in coping with grief, and emphasizes the importance of finding healthy coping mechanisms and avoiding unhealthy habits. Josh also highlights the need for veterans to focus on mental health and seek out effective ways to heal.
Additionally, Josh delves into his commitment to unbiased journalism, discussing his work with Security Halt Media, alongside Deny Caballero, and his collaboration with Task and Purpose. Through his experiences, he stresses the need for honest, thoughtful media coverage of veterans and their struggles, ensuring that their stories are told with truth and integrity.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
07:48 Challenges and Discharge
13:12 Health Issues and Alternative Therapies
23:08 Addressing Mental and Physical Health
35:56 Therapy and Flashbacks
38:19 Finding Peace and Overcoming Grief
41:41 Prioritizing Self-Care and Healthy Habits
45:44 Alcohol vs. Marijuana
49:03 Being Fun Sober and Breaking Out of Your Shell
53:21 The Power of Unbiased Journalism
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LinkedIn: Deny Caballero
Connect with Josh Skovlund today!
LinkedIn: Joshua Skovlund
Instagram: Joshua_skovlund
Website: taskandpurpose.com
Produced by Security Halt Media
security hot podcast. Let's go with a man who's the best with guns, with knives, with his bare hands, a man who's been trained to ignore, ignore weather, to live off the land. Job was disposed of enemy personnel to kill. Period with my attrition there we go there we go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there nice, oh yeah, ambience light I mean, I love it, man, the darkness is good for my my face. I say I have a piece of the radio. So same here, same here.
Speaker 1:That's why I spend the money on the on the mics, not so much the cameras. People. I have a piece for radio, same here, same here. That's why I spend the money on the mics, not so much the cameras. People don't want to see this in high-def. Fair, fair. Joshua Scovelin. Welcome man, it's an honor and a pleasure to have you brother.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for having me on. I've been looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, dude, and I've been looking forward to it. Absolutely, dude, dude. Your LinkedIn page, your resume, reads off like what every modern service member wants to do Be involved as a writer, be involved in social media and being involved with great organizations. And also, you're a paramedic man, licensed and certified. You've done it all. Yeah, I've worn a lot of hats in my life, that's for sure. Yeah, dude, let's, let's kick it off by going into your, uh, your, service, because it's always, um, you know, before we get to the, the superhero arc, we want to find out about your origins. How did they start?
Speaker 2:yeah, so my um, my early entrance and exposure to the military was, uh, actually, I guess I was technically considered enlisted in the Air Force. I tried out for a full ride scholarship through an Air Force ROTC program at South Dakota State University and I got that and they doing uh what sounded like kind of a pilot program where when you join the rotc program um, it's like the option 40 contract in the in the army you get a guaranteed option to try out for the stoke crow pipeline and towards the end of that first semester, um, this is one of many bad luck streaks in my life. But I ended up coming down with mono when I was in at the campus there and slept in my dorm room for like three days straight and didn't realize it. And during that time I found out I missed one of the meetings that they were canceling like the pilot program. I found out I missed one of the meetings that they were canceling like the pilot program, and it was basically going to switch me to the needs of the air force, whatever was available kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Once I uh was commissioned and I had I set hard pass to that and I was going to join the air force, uh on the enlisted side because I really wanted to be a pj and um, I ended up getting connected with a combat controller, uh, remotely. He was running me through like, uh, pool, pt stuff and um, training me up for the 50, 50 meter underwater swim and stuff like that for the past test and um, long story short, that got cut. And so, um, I talked to my uh, one of the officers in charge of the program and I told him what I want, what I was planning on doing. He's like, well, you're never gonna make it. And to me I was like, okay, I don't like that attitude. Um, you know, I felt like I was a pretty capable person at the time.
Speaker 2:So I called up my brother, who was a recruiter out in upstate new york at the time. He had done his time at 175 and I said, hey, oh, nice, um, I'm leaving the Air Force and I'm going to join the Army, I want to go Ranger Regiment. And after a long, deep sigh, he's like all right, come out here. And so I moved out there about and I was in the delayed entry program for I think it was somewhere around six months, if I remember right six months, if I remember right um, and he got me connected with a lot of the mentors that he had kind of gathered for this uh young ranger group that he basically put together like guys I want to go to bat.
Speaker 2:He was going to run them through the program so he had like study packets. He had us write like a big long essay on ranger history and all that stuff um, and so I learned how I learned, like on paper, the basics of call for fire and whatnot from a JTAC um, before I even shipped out. And that's awesome dude. Yeah, um, I I had a pretty uh cush set up for like prepping for the military uh, just because I had access to like a a wealth of information and experience and I was right there yeah.
Speaker 2:I originally wanted to join as a medic so I could go to SACIM, since the PJ thing didn't work out and there just wasn't any slots open for an option 40 for a medic at the time. And so my brother is like, well, what do you think about a forward observer? And I honestly didn't know what it was at the time. And he's like, well, you get to call in airstrikes and stuff. And I was like, oh, all right, so quite the opposite job. But um, you know, he showed me a couple videos of uh, close air support um over during the gwatt and I was like, yeah, all right, sign me up, let's do. It sold.
Speaker 2:So I ended up talking to uh, the, the jtacs that my brother knew, and they worked with a lot of us in the group. It wasn't just me by any means, but we did that and we trained extra hard compared to the rest of the people in the delayed entry program that wanted to just I don't want to say just, but wanted to do other jobs in the military, do other jobs in the military and um, so when I shipped out, I was pretty lean and mean and made it through basic and airborne rasp um, and then was assigned a seaco 375 and then um, hell yeah, that's such a hard process too, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, rasp is a machine dude, it is a meat grinder. Everybody that I know that went through there, that made it successfully and then went to SF to be like, yeah, I'd go to selection all day, every day.
Speaker 2:Especially when the cadbury knows who your brother is and I don't know that. They know that my whole plan going into it was I wanted to be the gray man. I didn't want any attention on me and that was not the case straight out the gate. And I'll never forget, like the first run, that they had us do right, when we were dumping bags at the pre-rask barracks um, I'm brain farting on the nco's name. But he, he said, all right, I'm gonna take you on a run, let's go. And he just took off down towards the airfield like a bat out of hell and he was.
Speaker 2:He wasn't like a super small guy, but he wasn't like a sprinter type either in appearance.
Speaker 2:So when he maintained what seemed like a sub six minute, you know mile pace for I don't know how long, but it was definitely not one mile, um, he broke off a bunch of people just straight out the gate and they quit.
Speaker 2:And then we got back huffing and puffing and, um, I wasn't the last guy showing up but I was kind of middle of the pack and that was kind of like my eye opening experience, like, oh, these guys are, these guys are serious, and I thought I was in good shape showing up and I just wasn't the most in shape guy that had showed up by any means. But yeah, and I my time in the military wasn't super extensive by any means because I got in trouble for drinking and fighting and it was when regiment was in in a phase of making examples out of guys, and I handed, uh, my resume on a silver platter to him with, uh, some of the dumb private stuff I did and I I ended up getting the boot for it and that's something that a lot of guys experience, like it's it's not it's.
Speaker 1:It's a hard thing to deal with and that they're not easy. They they have. A plethora of individuals are willing to put themselves through all kinds of torture and pain to get there, yeah, and their standards are high. You don't have any room to fuck up like it's across the board for special operations, but I mean green berets, seals like you can get saved, you can get punished and earn your way back to the good graces of your leadership. But a ranger regiment that doesn't exist.
Speaker 2:I I've never heard that like you get that much slack and in the moment you fuck up, you're done yeah, I think there is close to 50 guys that got the boot the same time as me for a variety of things, some of them significantly worse than anything I ever did. Like I won't get into details on any of these guys, but some of the things that I they told me when we're waiting for appointments and stuff, I was like what, and you thought that was going to go over well, in Ranger Edge, all right, but I mean, I'm not going to point the finger at anybody, because I gave them what they needed and I learned. I learned the hard way quite a bit and I've I've spent every year since um trying to better understand what was going on and what it why couldn't I like fix myself essentially, and what do you?
Speaker 1:think what was um and and feel free to if it's too. It's so uncomfortable you want to get too vulnerable. But what? What happened and what, what? What was the, the catalyst?
Speaker 2:um it. The main, main catalyst of it was drinking. Um was the biggest issue. There was a big drinking issue. Um, yeah, and it was not unique to me by any means, but there's a common saying and and that I hear all the time from other rangers because I've I've worked with and around and covered lots of legendary guys from regiment and of course, when they find out I was in Ranger Regiment, there's usually a pretty quick conversation what did you do? And when I tell them I was just shy of my two-year mark, they're like what happened, you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's intuitive, like they know, yeah, and I mean really it just boiled down to um, I got in trouble for drinking, um, and then, not too long after that, towards when we're gearing up to to deploy, I got um in trouble again for alcohol and I think between that, um, the jaw surgery that they found in the pre-deployment checks by accident, um, that was kind of like the final straw for for my immediate leadership and um, I wasn't really tracking that I was going to be getting the boot until um, right after I was released from the hospital, uh, after my company had deployed forward and stuff, um, but uh, it really just boils down to I got caught drinking a couple of times and, uh, more than one drinking infraction is just a big no, no, um, and uh, yeah, I'll give it's kind of the thousand foot view, but um, it just it's one of those things that I've I've really had to ponder like for years at this point, cause I was, I was uh released in 2012 and December 2012.
Speaker 2:And I've spent many years trying to figure out what was going on. Um, and the older I've gotten, the more some symptoms have popped up and I found out that I somehow acquired a TBI at some point and I have a large cyst in the middle of my brain and stuff and um behavior.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that, that's that affects you that affects you and that's um.
Speaker 1:You know, we, we now know, and if you're listening at home, you don't, you don't, you haven't been listening to your show long enough. Uh, traumatic brain injuries are the signature injury of the g water and we always think it's a massive blast or a penetrative injury that causes. No, it's repetitive concussive trauma. It's the the small, repetitive hits, and to add to that, you have a cyst in your brain. Yeah, how did you figure? How did you figure? How did you find this out?
Speaker 2:Chelsea over at 107 Foundation. I've done quite a bit of coverage on kind of the soft realms since I've entered into the journalism role and I got connected with the 107 Foundation. I was talking to her about a couple of different stories that I was planning on writing because there's been a lot coming out on how a lot of different soft units are really proactive with cognitive checks. Now even you know when guys are in the gym working out, if they, if they notice that they're having an off day or not hitting the the you know their typical weight on lifts or their run isn't as fast as usual they're they're trying to like, pull guys aside now and figure out what's going on, and figuring out like, hey, are you having trouble at home with your wife or are you just not feeling good on a day-to-day basis? And I I remember like not to.
Speaker 2:Within like the first couple weeks of being at range regiment, I just had the worst time getting out of bed in the morning, um, and just heavy fatigue, and I just thought it was because I was in ranger regiment and it's, I mean, the standard is the standard, no matter whether you're having a bad day or not. So it was always just trying to grind through that. But, um, I've since found out, uh, you know, a couple of things about myself between the TBI and cyst. But hyperparathyroidism, I guess, is something that you're just born with, or you're not, but that can cause a level of fatigue on top of any side effects of tbis or any of that stuff. Um, and then I, just now this week, I'm finally treating my, my low testosterone levels um, oh bro, that is a huge.
Speaker 1:I mean you, you lay out operator syndrome and look down the checklist, like, and it's not just and here's the thing, it's not just soft community individuals, our mortar men, our artillery men, our infantry men, our paratroopers, like you guys are. You were part of this. And if you look into the research or even better, get the book, get the book for dr christopher free and and just read it and understand it. Like oftentimes we think of the testosterone as like, oh, that's a shiny thing, but really and truly it's one of the most important things. Your endocrine system and it does bleed into everything else depression, your mood, being able to feel like you're getting actual sleep man 100% and luckily I've, you know, just through work doing coverage and freelance work.
Speaker 2:I first learned I had low testosterone because I was doing a contract with the Best Defense Foundation for their stronghold program where I was covering what they're running out there and one of the docs that they had brought in to do a couple of classes with all the guys.
Speaker 1:Was it Dr Bronner? Yeah, dr Bronner, my man, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was there as a media guy but, because I had served in the military.
Speaker 2:Donnie had said like, yeah, make sure you talk to these guys and take advantage of the opportunity. And so I did and sat down and he like take advantage of the opportunity. And so I did and sat down and he like, without even looking at any sort of blood work, just zeroed in on a bunch of different things and just kind of like explain it to me in a way that I was like man. I like I've been a medic for over 10 years at this point and I've worked as a critical care paramedic for a few years, you know, before I kind of segued into the media world and all this stuff was just sold beyond my comprehension. Insane man.
Speaker 1:It truly is, and you're right, man and kind of segue into what the Best Defense Foundation is doing for the stronghold. Their events are holding up in Utah Life-changing, dude Life-changing, for so many soft veterans are going there and the nfl players dude yep um, being able to sit down in a remote setting, removed from the stress, removed from your day-to-day activities, and you can finally sit down and everything kind of starts to click in. You can start talking with the guys there and realize that you're not alone. Everybody identifies the same issues. That's the crazy part.
Speaker 1:I don't eat well, my diet's garbage. I feel like crap. I haven't worked out in this much time. I'm constantly focused on what I failed to do in this past part of my life, what I'm failing to do in the future, and it's like for that one week in that event, they're able to reset and get plugged in with so many providers and so many resources that they're going home not only with hope and real tools, but they're re-energized, reinvigorated to understand, like, okay, I can get back into the fight. I can feel like I can literally walk into my house and my wife's going to see a different person in just one week.
Speaker 1:It's insane man. So big shout out to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I told Donnie over and over throughout the week of oh, absolutely, it's insane, man. Yeah, big shout out to them. Yeah, yeah, like I. I told Donnie over and over during throughout the week of like man, how did, how did you guys come up with this? Like it's such a a great concept. And when you're up there on that, that, you know you're at 10,000 feet and I ended up with altitude sickness on the third day. We didn't really do a whole lot of acclimating before we get up there, and I live on the seacoast in new hampshire.
Speaker 2:So I flew there, we drove straight up and, uh we, we hit a rock. Literally the next day. So I don't know if it was the combination of that stuff, but by by, like the the third day ish, about in the middle of like the night between day two and three, I woke up and just started vomiting profusely and it just felt like the worst dog shit I've ever felt. And I, I, um, I I worked, uh, in immediate capacity for him, but since I'm a licensed paramedic, I was kind of there as in a medical capacity as well and I started thinking like man, is this really happening? And so I pulled out my SpO2 monitor and put it on my finger and it was like down to, I think, 88 or something like that.
Speaker 1:And that was like oh, it's high up there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I went and snagged an oxygen tank and within five minutes I was feeling you know great, and um took it off and I was fine for the rest of the time. But, um, that's where I kind of first got an idea of like okay, there's a lot of things going on within my body right now that I got to fix. But then, uh, when I was talking to chelsea from hunter 7, um, just about various stories, we ended up towards the end of the call just kind of discussing things, uh, shooting the shit on on military backgrounds and stuff like that, and she started asking me kind of pointed questions and I was like where are you going with this? And she's like, well, I'm gonna sign you up for the full body scan that we do and you don't get to say no. And it was like all right, because my immediate thought is like there's way more guys that should be getting in before me you know, we, we all say that yeah, and, and I want to tell you, man, like you deserve it too.
Speaker 1:Every veteran deserves it, and we are people. That man, you got out and you went into another job, another profession where you're of service to others, and then you continue. You continue, but and all of us need to hear it All of us need to hear that we are worth it, we deserve to get checked out, that you continue, but, and all of us need to hear, all of us need to hear that we are worth it, we deserve to get checked out, that cancer is one of the biggest things. I mean, yeah, so calm, so calm, finally put out that memorandum.
Speaker 1:And I hate to be cynical, I hate to be that guy, but if they're making a broad statement like that, that means they know something. Yeah, that means they know something. And the scary thing is and I, I again I'm not going to say the person's name, but it's because of being in a large community where I'm able to engage and talk with so many of my brothers, that I'm able to collect these stories and these testimonies of like, yeah, I, the VA, knew I had cancer, they knew I had cancer in 2010 and they didn't say anything. I knew I had cancer in 2010 and they didn't say anything. That's insane to me. A brother of mine is is living today and had to have emergency surgery, had to go through this ordeal because somebody didn't brief him that, hey, you have cancer.
Speaker 1:And how many years did he go unchecked, untreated and it breaks my heart, and more guys, more gals need to be willing to just understand that if you have the resources and they did it you can reach out to 107 Foundation. That's the crazy part. You can reach out to them on LinkedIn. You can reach out to the website. Be willing to understand that you can reach out to 107 Foundation. That's the crazy part. You can reach out to them on LinkedIn. You can reach out to the website. Be willing to understand that you served within the past 20 years and you've been exposed to things. You've been exposed to so many different agents. These people are out there. It's a labor of love for them. They're out there advocating and raising money, raising awareness. Be willing to show up and just email, contact them and, like I said, you deserve it and you're worth it. We need more of our veterans to stick around a lot longer.
Speaker 2:And I am incredibly thankful for Chelsea kind of pushing that along, because when I wrote my op-ed for Task and Purpose on it I forget the exact verbiage but but it was 107 talked me into doing their scan and you know it was worth it or something like that. And you know, like I, I went into it kind of nervous that they might find something that would be in indicative of like als or something, because that's really prevalent in my family. We have the familial gene Um and that's that's what. Uh um killed my dad and a lot of his brothers and uh, his brothers and sister and cousins and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:It's pretty prevalent and so that's more so what I was worried about. So when Chelsea called me up and was like hey, you have a cyst in the middle of your brain, I was like what you know, I wasn't expecting that at all. You know, when I initially filed my claim at the VA, I reported that I thought that maybe I somehow had a bad concussion that had lingering effects. And luckily there is a 175 guy that was doing the intake forms for me and helped me out with, like navigating the process. And he's like no dude, like you sound like you have a TBI, like just file the claim now and they'll check you out. And then you know, if you do that, they'll start helping you get, you know, figure out a way to deal with your side effects of this stuff. And I was like, ok, like because I have the same thought in my head of you know, like I didn't get blown up by an id or anything like that, like I, how could I possibly have a tbi? And then, after all these years of reporting and talking to tf, dagger and hunter 7 and some of these other organizations you know I've never heard the term lizard brain before either. But uh, there's a master art over at tf dagger that just broke it down like five seconds. He's like, oh, dude, you have lizard brain when you're in regiment. I was like what, um, and you know, like the data that they've gathered on, like the, the safety metrics as far as, like for the conventional army, with how often they shoot on the shooting range, is they're within their safety range, but in units like range, regiment or sf or you know some of these other spots, like you shoot so much in such a short time frame that you are well outside of that safety factor, or that's the safety measures for it. And, um, basically, it like turns your brain into this primitive brain where you sustain a non-traumatic brain injury from the toxic exposure and that makes you more susceptible to physical hits to the head that normally might not cause a TBI or things like that.
Speaker 2:If I'm not butchering the explanation because, like I said, this stuff is way beyond my comprehension when it comes to the medical side of things, but when they started to really explain stuff to me, it's really helped me better understand of like, oh, okay, so I I have some homework. I need to start really digging into this. I have two young kids and a wife and a third on the way. Like I, I don't think I can be the best dad and the best husband I can be unless I start addressing my issues instead of just bottling them up and like burying them underneath me.
Speaker 2:And the more I've been diving into that and doing therapy and going to endless doctor's appointments and stuff, I'm saying it really does bring about like a sense of hope, whereas before it was like well, this sucks. You know exactly the the doldrums of like that doesn't sound fixable. You know like I guess I gotta just deal with it. And you know like it does take a lot to like get yourself to the point where you'll pursue this, because you really do have to advocate for yourself, especially in the civilian health care system, because they're not used to seeing young guys dealing with these issues. And I've you. You know, I've been told I have the back of a 60 year old and I have the hips of a 70 year old and you know a bunch of different things like that and the, the.
Speaker 2:There's that common thought process, um, in the military, but especially the soft circle of, I'd rather not know, I just want to live my life, dude, I want to do my, thing, I'd rather not comfort of ignorance.
Speaker 1:man, I was right there too and all of us are there. All of us are there at one point 100, until you get to the point where the pain is too much, yeah, where the cognitive decline, you can't hide it anymore. And then you spire out of control and then it's like, oh fuck, or if you don't, you you just continue to live this life where you're operating at such a deficit. And people, because you're in a soft profession, because you're a part of that soft tribe, people are like, oh, jimmy's fine, jimmy's great, he's doing great, he's operating at 50% to 60% of his capacity and he's on fire and he's broken because he, he knows what it was like to be able to operate a hundred percent. Yeah, and he's, he's at every end, every day. He sits there at night and he's like, fuck, dude, I used to be great, yeah, I used to be great, but I'm too scared to raise my hand and go get help and it is scary, but you know what I say it.
Speaker 1:All the time you've been through cqb you've been the number one man. You've gone into the unknown. You've repeatedly turned and gone into the unknown and you know what it feels like to swallow up, nut up and go into the unknown. Do it for your health, do it for your family. You want to be here longer. We need you, our community, right now.
Speaker 1:I would argue that the reason why we don't have the greatest leadership at our local levels, at our city levels, at the state levels, because a lack of veterans, a lack of individuals that know what it's like to be of service to others and to work hard to make things better for everybody else. If we can just encourage all of you that are listening right now to just suck it up, be willing to face that doctor and be willing to face the diagnosis. A diagnosis is a powerful thing. It doesn't have to scare you. You can be empowered. Look at your targeting analysis, look at the way you analyze the enemy. You have to know him. You have to know what's going on. You have to know what's wrong before you can fight it right Exactly.
Speaker 2:So be willing to do it, repurposing that mindset that you, you already have and I think there's that degree of like facing your own mortality to a sense because I know a lot of us get this innate sense in our head of like you're invincible and indestructible and then when things start stacking up like it, it, it really does it's like a shock to the system. That's unlike anything in the world. Yeah, I, I know, when my hips went to shit on me it was during just a regular warm-up, when I was doing my strongman kind of training and I just put an empty barbell on my back. I was doing my warm-up squats and I went down on like the second or third one and then I got stuck at the bottom of the squat. Oh no, I couldn't stand up.
Speaker 2:I was like this is weird because it didn't hurt or anything, but it was just an inability to stand back up. So I kind of turtle rolled onto my back and shucked the barbell off and kind of laid there for a second like what just happened. And my wife was inside and she she's probably said I told you so more times than I want to admit at this point, but she's like nope, you don't get to ignore this one. You got I'm, if you don't call, I'm calling the doc and it's like all right. So I went in and they found out my hips were just messed up and um ended up getting like bilateral uh surgery done on my on my hips and got it fixed and oh man, it's that was like kind of the first of many things.
Speaker 2:That was like a shock to my system of like what kind of surgery did they do?
Speaker 1:they do the complete replacement, or you?
Speaker 2:know. So they, um, they said I could either do the full replacements, but they really pushed against that because of how young I am. Like, once they're done, there's a time limit on those replacements and I still um have a lot of life left to live, um a lot of goals that I still need to hit. And, um, so they, they said that they could do a revision because I had congenital deformities in my uh humeral head but also the pelvis, uh around the hip capsule, and basically they were bumping and causing one of them to kind of like punch into the cartilage that's around the hip capsule and basically they were bumping and causing one of them to kind of like punch into the cartilage that's around the hip capsule and it shredded all the cartilage and they were. They said that they were able to sew together enough to where I have 50% of my cartilage in either side.
Speaker 2:And, um, my surgeon said, like, within the next 10 years you're going to need full replacements, but my mission is to prove them wrong. And yeah, you know again, thanks to 107. They, they kind of read me on of, like what I need to take to really, you know, maximize my joint health and bring back some of that that you know, free flow within the capsule and keep it lubed up, I guess, for lack of a better description. And you know it's it's. It sucks to have to take a bunch of vitamins in the morning, and I'm only 33. But you're young man.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and that's why I kind of laugh when you know some people be like, oh you're, you're young. And then it's like, yeah, yeah, I am, but I wish I could, I could feel young, and it's just not there um, it's that mindset, it's that.
Speaker 1:It's that mindset we gotta. We gotta fight that. That culture, man, I. It's a scary and weird thing when the world wants us to feel old and it's like, oh, you're 40, you're old, you're old, you're old, yeah, and that mindset it's really like, oh, okay, yeah, I'm old, maybe I should do old people stuff like wait a second, I don't know, I don't know about that. Like I, yeah, I can just continue living my life how I wanted to find that age. Oh, absolutely, like seeing dudes in their 50s and 60s doing ironmans and triathlons, like, okay, yeah, like I don't want anybody to define what old is for me, and then start and you know what I mean like embodying that idea of like, oh, I should just wear new balance shoes and jean shorts and, uh, hang out at walmart all day, right, yeah, and one of these days'm going to get a pair of jorts and real white socks and the new balance and I'm going to rock the old guy look for a while just to drive my wife insane.
Speaker 2:Chastise everybody for not voting for your politician, especially if they touch the grass, you know, um, embrace it, but I, I, I have um. I guess the way I look at it is I'll, I'll be old someday, but today's not that day, and I'll probably say that every day until I'm in. You know, six feet under, and that's just kind of my approach to it At this point. I've been through some pretty low lows, um years and I consider that some wasted time and that's the one thing that we can't get back. So, you know, being able to reframe my mind and, you know, through alternative therapies that are available in the veteran community, it's been instrumental with helping me with that.
Speaker 1:Dude, let's dive into that. That is something that I I love talking about, I love advocating for it. Uh, it's, we have to be willing to find every resource that works. Even if it's not something that worked for me, I want to advocate and put it out there. If there's efficacy, if there's proven trials, yeah, like, and I mean like, what did you try? What are some things that have helped you in your journey? Um?
Speaker 2:well, I grew up in south dakota where weed is, like the, the gateway drug to heroin, so I I didn't really touch any sort of drug outside of alcohol until I was well into my 20s and um, when I first started hearing from like within the ranger community, like dudes using thc to help them with certain um behavioral issues like anger problems and, uh, rage out and stuff like that, I was I kind of convinced me of like okay, so there's something to this, if some of these guys that I highly respect and highly look up to as role models are saying this is a thing that can work. So that's one of the first things I tried out and it brings a level of calm that I can't usually achieve yet on a daily basis unassisted. And so that was kind of like the first step and I've done quite a few rounds of microdosing psilocybin and that's been a whole, whole new step of finding a pretty high level of like self-reflection so that I can um stop avoiding those things within my own psyche but come face to face with it, address it and figure out like how do I, how do I, how do I improve this um and what? That's why, if I start, my wife is like my radar for my, my rage out moment, so she can see it coming a mile away and I never know what's happening until I boil over, and she'll she'll usually be the one that'll be like you are starting to hit an angry spot, time to go for a walk, and so I I go on a walk, regardless what time the day it is, and by the time I come back I'm chill as a cucumber again. So, um, between those two things, it's really helped me, like, take pause better understand, like, where I'm at in that moment, and, um, that that's done a lot to get me to a much better place mentally and physically.
Speaker 2:Um, I did one round of an alternative therapy. Um, I won't identify what it was quite yet, just because it's. It was, uh, it was a trial, um, that's not cleared yet. Uh, but that was. It's hard to put into words, but it was the most aggressive, unpleasant thing I think I've ever experienced.
Speaker 2:Oh shit, because you face what they call an ego death, where you have to kind of be ready to accept death, basically, but while you're on, you know, going through the therapy, it's essentially like you agreeing to kill your ego, and so when you wake up from that, that ego is gone, like you have no ego left and there's a point of pride and things like that that can still kind of shine through at times, but for the better. And in my experience anyways, ego is just not a thing anymore. Um, I, I, I used to be fairly competitive with other people when it comes to they do something, whether I'm doing it, whether I'm into it or not, like I'm, like I bet I can do that better. Uh, but it's just that's not a thing anymore. And I think it's really helped me, especially as a journalist, because I have to take a step back and remove my bias from anything that I'm writing, and it really helped me better understand like there is always two sides to the story, if not more.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely Always always the other side of it. So, whether that's, you know, setting up an interview with somebody that's being accused of a crime, hearing their side of it, or hearing like the state side or the federal side, whoever's bringing the charges, that was a big thing. And I know, before I did the alternative therapy, I was still fairly suicidal and that was one of those other things that, when I woke up from the therapy, that voice in my head telling me to do that. It was gone, wow, instantaneously. It was the weirdest thing I think I've ever experienced, because I had that voice nagging at me since I was discharged from the military.
Speaker 1:Brother, I'm sorry to hear that man. That is a hard fight to deal with on a day-to-day basis.
Speaker 2:I'm not even sure if I could have done it on my own. To be honest, it's just something about that therapy. I was told the medicine will show you what you need to see, not what you want to see, and so there is. There is a bunch of different flash points that I kind of remember from the therapy, where it showed different like it was like I was standing back in the same situation I was in when my fsnco was talking to me about when I got in trouble for alcohol. It showed me that was talking to me about when I got in trouble for alcohol. It showed me that, um, I saw my dad, alive and well, um, standing there and I remember he like turned around and smiled at me and like kind of raised his hand. Like I'm good, you're good, move on, like yeah, or I guess move on isn't quite the right words for it is more so like I think I've always had a fear since my dad died that he's not okay, like he's not in a good place or something like that, for really no reason, cause my dad was pretty good dude, um, and with that it was like it.
Speaker 2:It helped me, like really overcome a lot of the grief that I was dealing with over my dad's death. I ended up facilitating his um or administering his like hospice meds over the last couple of days he was alive and me and my brother took things to a whole new level with making sure that we were the ones taking care of my dad after he died Um and I. It was just things like that where I I would never do it different, had I, if I'd have to go back and do it, but the memories of doing those things were very heavy, and so that was one of the things that I woke up from and I still get upset on my dad's anniversary of his death and stuff. So it's not like it removes that grief, but it just gave me a better way to handle it and chew on it and digest it and figure out ways to really heal from it, and so those are kind of the more notable things, I guess, and I'll never forget how people don't realize it from the day to day when they're in the military, even after they get out, like how much noise builds up in your in your conscious mind and your subconscious mind.
Speaker 2:And when I woke up the next day after doing that therapy because it was the night before I woke up and I my head has never been so quiet before in my life I could think one thought at a time. It wasn't a bunch of racing thoughts and it wasn't a bunch of different like negative internal thoughts towards myself, like why'd you do this this way, and stuff like that. It was just like I was truly at peace and it lasted for months afterwards and the like. It's not a permanent thing, though, like my mind is right back to where it was before as far as, like I have too much on my plate, I have too many things to do, I have this and this and this, and so it's just like so much chaos in your head. But when you get that moment of just true peace in your head, it's. It's just something I've.
Speaker 1:I haven't been able to find it through anything else, and I do a lot of meditation now and yoga and I was gonna say, yeah, we tried meditation and mindfulness because that is the the one thing that, in my journey, like diving into that world and being able now to like teach people, that was one of the greatest things that I found and it I it's funny, dude, like I say it all the time the first person that brought it up to me I nearly cussed them out at the intrepid spirit. It was a doctor. Yeah, get the fuck out of here. I don't want your like you're going to cut into me and take this pain out of me. Yeah, sometimes I can't do anything like that, but with mindfulness you can learn to be present and let go and just embrace like everything's impermanenceence, man, like things can get crazy, things can get bad, but everything dissipates absolutely and that's that's just one of those things like that I I think everybody can can start it.
Speaker 2:No, whether you know it or not, like I'm the least flexible person that I know, I think, and if I can do yoga like anybody can do it, you know.
Speaker 2:And like not only that, but just when I started doing yoga, I can't believe how I I can do push-ups better now than I did when I was in regiment and can I do them all day long like I did in regiment. Nowadays, like not yet, but I'm getting closer and I've in. I think a lot of it had to do with, like downward dog position and like some of these, like very multifaceted, it engages every muscle in your body kind of yoga poses and meditation is something I'm very rusty at, but I've been doing a lot of my own research on it and trying to figure out how I can do it at home and I've kind of found a process of doing it at home, playing like that deep theta wave music type stuff. I burn incense and I close my eyes and I just chill in my office with all the lights off, and that is one way where I I don't know it's I don't know if you can call it a form of meditation, or maybe it's just my own weird concoction that I found.
Speaker 2:But, um, if I'm super stressed out, I do that for probably 20 to 30 minutes and zone out, let everything just free flow, and after it's done I set a timer and the timer goes off and I'm right back at it again, and sometimes I do it in the middle of the day, or usually it's about this time, on a friday, that I'm doing that, because, yeah, by the end of the week I'm like, oh man, I just need to yeah, it's like a sprint man sometimes when we let life just like I always say, like you can either participate in your life or let life happen to you.
Speaker 1:That's what it feels like for so many people who just like pulled in so many different directions, so many do out so many things like, hey, like when we were in the military, especially in any soft profession, 100% means 100 fucking percent. Yeah, when you get out of that world, it's a day to day thing. What's your 100% today, denny, you know what? I got 15 fucking things to do. But if I can get these 10 or you know what Better yet if I can get these five, that's my 100% for today.
Speaker 1:Because I still got to be a husband, I still got to be a support system, I still got to take care of me. I still got to go to the gym. I still got to make sure I do my do outs for my coach, terry. Shout out to Terry Wilson. I haven't failed you yet, my man. You haven't failed me and I appreciate you. But if I do those things for me, then I know that's my 100. Then I know like, fuck dude, I did it. I wasn't able to get that morning workout but I went to the afternoon one. I feel great and everybody needs to identify that. This whole idea that you have to be 100% in every metric, in every world, you can try it. You can do it, but only for so long, and then you'll realize that when you try to do that for everyone and you leave yourself at a deficit, that's when all that horrible shit starts creeping back up.
Speaker 1:Oh, that negative voice starts coming in You're a piece of shit, you suck, you can't do anything. Oh yeah, it's like fuck that dude. I hate that voice, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there's that I'm definitely not going to be a hypocrite to say this Like I was a prime example of really trying to hold myself to the same standard from regiment and really trying to hold myself to the same standard from regiment. And I try to carry that into my personal life and just be a hundred percent at everything and everything and everything. And I made it about five years as a night shift paramedic in Minneapolis and by about that four and a half five year mark I started drinking really heavily. I could barely get out of bed, I was all sorts of jacked up. And my wife again God bless her soul because she's been a saving grace for me ever since she walked into my life. But she pointed out and she whenever she points out like any, anything with drinking or things like that, she's always really careful about it because I've had she's tried to point it out to me before when we were first dating, when I was still kind of in in ranger mode, when she, like she met a bunch of my ranger buddies at our wedding and she hadn't seen that side of me yet and she didn't know there was other people like me. So uh me, I think I'm bad, wait till you meet the gang. Yeah, exactly, and I remember one of my groomsmen.
Speaker 2:He is one of my best friend from regiment he he died in a helicopter crash a few years back but, um, when he, when he would drink, he'd get super aggressive and towards the end of the night, um, during the reception, he wanted to wrestle. So we end up basically grappling and fighting on the dance floor and, oh my gosh, he tried to go for my tie to choke me with it and I grabbed his and we weren't sitting there choking each other out with our ties and then his, his like snapped in half and right when it popped we just started laughing. And then we got up and went and got more, more to drink and at the end of the night, memories my wife and her family was just like what happened.
Speaker 2:Well, I thought they were going to kill each other, but now they're laughing and now they're drinking together, like it's just like that kind of world that. Have you not been in it or been around it? It is very eye-opening to people and, um, I avoid drinking heavily nowadays for that exact reason, because once you flip into that mode, it's hard to get out of it, especially when you're with when you're with all your boys.
Speaker 1:But yeah, dude, hank the tank is a real person and he lives within a lot of us. That's why I don't drink. I I talk about it openly. Uh, it's like one of those things where, like within our american culture, it's like things you don't talk about your faith, your political alignment, and if you drink and if you don't drink and I'm just like you know what, fuck it, I'm not gonna drink, I'm not gonna touch it, it just it. There's no benefit to it. And I just saw my life.
Speaker 1:Oh, when I look back to all the moments where I was like truly embarrassed, truly at my low feeling, like I was on the verge of doing something really stupid and and just checking out, alcohol was always involved and it just made sense to me and I think a lot of people are finally starting to see it Like it's not a good thing. It's pushed on us when we first join as this thing that can help us relax. I just go drink about it and hang out, yeah, but the more I realize it honestly doesn't do shit for us as people. I advocate marijuana as being a better thing if you really want to relax and you want a substance, go get high.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do it. I've never found anybody that's high on weed. I know that much pcp that's a totally different thing. But you know, between alcohol and some of these other hard drugs like yeah, that'll get you fired up, that'll, that'll get you pretty shy steve, but somebody's smoking weed, or even like some of the hallucinogenics, like I've had some, some of my favorite, like 911 calls, where we get called for somebody that's quote-unquote crazy and then I show up and you can tell they're tripping and it's just like hey man, what'd you take?
Speaker 2:oh, I took lsd like all right you have somebody at home that is sobering and can make sure you're okay and not let you out of your safe zone again. So you just take them back and they'll just be like picking out butterflies, you know, while they're just sitting on the stretcher We'd go take them and drop them off and make sure they weren't lying that somebody was actually there, otherwise we would have to take them to the hospital. But I never like they're always chill, they're totally cool and it's hard to mess with somebody's like kind of vibe when they're in that mode of like they're happy as a clam, like you're not going to mess with it Meanwhile an alcoholic or somebody that's really drunk.
Speaker 2:Fuck that. Oh yeah, you tell somebody that's like drunk and being stupid. At the bar. My favorite was a little teeny bopper that crawled into a dog kennel and she was biting at us when we're trying to pull her out of the damn kennel and I just it's just like so many examples of people got shithouse drunk and then now they're trying to fight you they're they're just being disgusting human beings spitting, trying to pee on you, like stupid stuff like that, and it's just like there's so many examples as why this is bad and I think it's just one of those things that that really hurts the veteran community, cause, yeah, I mean, you look at like the VFWs and stuff and I'm not trying to talk smack about them, but places that have those bars where veterans go to drink all the time they get shit house drunk there.
Speaker 1:Like that's not helping us at all. No, I remember my friend uh had gotten out and wanted to integrate, went to the vfw, started going there hanging out um, the local chapter president or something really great dude, he was advocating for all this great stuff but would habitually get fucked up to the point where you would drive drunk. And my friend was like dude, you can't do this. You can't talk about being responsible in a meeting and then get shit phased and then drive home. And the guy's like ah, fuck, I do this all the time and it's like dude, I'm done with it. Like yeah, and I know that's not every chapter, I know that's not the situation everywhere, right, but it's true. Why do we continuously connect the two Like you don't need it to have a good time? Absolutely don't need it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And I think a lot of people get it really ingrained in their head like, oh, I'm more fun when I'm drunk and it's like, no, you can be fun sober. It's just you've got to get over. Like what? Like your stage fright or whatever it is that's holding you back. Like just come face to face with why you're not fun when you're sober and you have your answer. Like you know what you need to fix. Like go take an acting class if you need to, or go take a public speaking class. Like break out of your shell and then you don't need that alcohol to. Like segue into social settings. And I feel like I've kind of walked backwards a little bit since I started working as a journalist, because if I spend all day talking to people on the phone doing interviews or like trying to work with PAOs and stuff, by the end of the day, like I don't want to be social at all.
Speaker 2:My social battery is gone. And so I like to just hang out at home and watch the fireflies on the back deck or something, or I've gotten really big into like macro photography of different bugs or birds and stuff like that and nice, I'm doing a lot of old guy stuff, I think well, dude, how did you get involved with uh, task and purpose?
Speaker 1:how did you become a writer? Like that seems like and I talked to a lot of guys that have that creative spirit whether it's wanting to be on youtube, whether it's wanting to be on YouTube, whether it's wanting to create a podcast, whether it's to write a book and write a movie like a screenplay. There's a lot of veterans that have this passion. But, like, how did you find this was a thing and how did you chase it down?
Speaker 2:Um, I, when I, when I was growing up, like I've I've always been kind of into photography, but I started with the throwaway like roll, you know, disposable cameras on backpacking trips and canoe trips and kayaking and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I've always been a pretty avid outdoorsman and so I started figuring out like I want to share this experience because I go to these remote spots where most of my friends don't want to go, especially the ones that grew up with me, and stuff that they're not quite into the the adventurous stuff, as, as I am, I won't take anything away from them. A couple of them are cops and they're on the SWAT team and stuff, but do they want to go? You know, hit, all 48 summits in New Hampshire? No, like um. So I wanted to start sharing it and try to get some of them involved. So that's what pulled me into photography of like I'll start with these disposable cameras, I'll show these photos and try to convince my friends that, oh, this is really nice. I won't tell them about how bad it sucks to like hit, like the switchbacks or stuff like that, but yeah, I'll tell them when they get there Surprise.
Speaker 2:That's kind of how I got started with that and I've always been like a big fan of creative, creative writing. I've I've written a lot of like short stories as a kid and all throughout my life where I'd write it and not show a single soul. It was just like kind of an exercise for me to, because I like doing it. Not long before the riots in Minneapolis started, my brother had started Coffee or Die magazine over at Black Rifle there and they're really struggling to find somebody to do their first responder coverage. And so his managing editor, katie McCarthy, and my brother reached out to me and said hey, would you be willing to try to write like a story on something that has to do with like one of your 911 calls and we'll see how it plays with the audience? And I was like no, I like that, I'm not a writer or anything. And they talked me into it and I wrote one. Um, I wrote about, uh, this dude that was on PCP that we ended up having to go nine rounds with to get them to the hospital safely, um, and they, they liked it.
Speaker 2:It was a pretty rough. There's a lot of editing and teaching. That happened with that first story and um, but it wasn't so bad and they're like all right, are you open to doing a couple more of these things? And I was like, yeah, sure, but I'm still. I was still doing night shifts and stuff, and there's not a whole lot of downtime between 911 calls where I was working, so I did my best to keep up with it and, um, I wrote I think it was like four or five of them and they just paid me their, their standard like freelancer rate and, um, when I got that check, you know, even though there wasn't taxes pull out of it, it was more than I was making as a critical care paramedic at the time in a month and that was like an, an eye opening thing for me. I was like, oh, you know, like I can do something I like to do and get paid better than what I'm getting paid right now. And so that was really what drew me into it.
Speaker 2:And a part of like the whole approach at Coffee or Dive was they wanted basically a soft fire team as far as multimedia journalists that could. They could shoot video, they could shoot photos and they could write not just hard news like inverted pyramid type stuff, but also long-form narrative, and so, um, I got in as, uh, one of the early writers for coffee or die magazine, after doing quite a bit of freelancing, um, ended up doing a freelance gig for black rifle, specifically, where they're doing the one lap across america, and I met, like marcus latrell and travis pastrana, and a bunch of people that were doing the race and I was like, oh, what the hell I'm getting paid to be here and hang out with these dudes.
Speaker 2:And uh, that's when I first met jared taylor and that was, yeah, he's such like a down-to-earth, cool dude and very, very social guy and I just kind of saw like, uh, like I think at in the paramedic world, in the ems world or just overall the first responder world, you get kind of that tribe feeling that you get when you're in in a, in the military or especially in like the soft community, where it's a very tight knit community. Everybody knows everybody. They know if you fucked up, they know if you didn't, and um, it just wasn't quite the same. Like you have a lot of low performers that are in the first responder community and it's not a, it's not meant to be like an attack on the first responder community at all, it's just I couldn't trust every partner of mine to have my back in situations and that's kind of a scary feeling. But when I was around those guys, when I was doing some of those early freelance things, it was like you're around a bunch of former soft dudes, they're very creative people, you're getting paid to do it, and that was just the thing that just sucked me right into it and it got to a point where I was writing it enough, and they offered me a full-time job at coffee or die and I was.
Speaker 2:It was a pretty big leap of faith because I I was at the time in pre-med, I was planning on going the emergency medicine route and I had a couple like mentors, um, uh, former like paramedic partners that were in their third year of med school and stuff. So I was, I think, three semesters into pre-med when they offered me that job and I had to make really hard decision of walk away from medicine or go into the media space where I know next to nothing about. And I'm glad I did do it because, long story short, the way insurance works with healthcare it's enough to make me like pull every hair out of my head. But um it it was. That's kind of what pulled me into it. And the longer I was there, the more I was. I went to YouTube university for learning how to shoot film and or video and photos and got to the point where I was performing at a pretty good level and, um, the rest is history from there. Um, I um won't dive too far, too much into it, but there is a lay offset black rifle at one point and so I ended up going on um a fun employment period of about I think it ended up being six months as far as applying to a bunch of local outlets on the seacoast out here.
Speaker 2:I applied to a couple other bigger places and I just didn't hear anything back. It was just crickets and at the time the journalism field. There was a lot of staffs getting laid off, huge cuts across the board, so it was incredibly difficult to find a job. And then my brother was over at Task and Purpose at that point as EIC over there and he basically said like I can't get you a job but I can. I'll definitely put in a good word if they ask me.
Speaker 2:But when he approached the people at Task and Purpose about bringing me onto the team, of course it was like whoa, hold on nepotism, we're not doing that. It's harsher on me with what I do as far as edits or photos I turn in or video cuts that I take, or videos I edit together and it's the same thing. I hold him to a high standard as my boss and things like that. When we're working together, it's not brothers, it's he's the boss, it's all business. I'm an employee, we're all business with it. And so I went through the hiring process. Actually, my old editor at Coffee or Die was a senior editor at Task and Purpose at the time.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:So he ended up being my direct report over at Task and Purpose and I've been there for I think it's over a year now. Oh, wow, so I've Congrats. Yeah, it's a grind for sure. The daily news grind is just a whole different animal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, the the daily news grind is just a whole different animal. Uh, yeah, and I can only imagine like there's covering normal everyday news is one thing. Covering news across the military, like if something happens, if there's breaking news, you can go to a civilian get their insight. Yeah, when something happens in the military, it it's. I can only imagine it's incredibly difficult to try to get somebody that's in uniform to open up and share the truth of what's really going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially with the way, um, not all journalists have done it, but there's been enough that have burned their sources by giving up their name or accidentally revealing who they talk to and stuff like that, and it's got. It's put people on like super paranoia level of I don't know if I can trust you. And so early on it was really really difficult to get people to open up, especially with the first responder stuff, because one of my first like gigs at Coffee or Die when I was brought on full time was covering the riots in minneapolis and that was right within the same city that I've been working for, working within as a paramedic for years. Um, so is. It was tough to see like a city that I've really grown to love fall into that cluster and, um, I understand the anger that was there and I won't ever take anything away from that. But when you see other actors that were showing up and starting fights with the peaceful protesters and then you know hours later it had completely unraveled into there's no other way to describe it was violent riots, there is no other way to describe it. And I remember just seeing other news crews that were out there just being morons, um, and then I'd I'd look up those journalists specifically and see what they wrote. And they would be writing oh, it's peaceful protests all night and you know all this and I'm like, come on, you know, like I have two hard drives sitting over here proving that was not peaceful in any way, shape or form. So I I I'm pretty proud of like the work that I did for Coffee or Die, because I think we were one of the first outlets that reported it accurately.
Speaker 2:As far as from this time to this time, peaceful protesters were doing X, y, z At this time there is more aggressive people coming in, throwing rocks or bricks or piss bottles at the cops and then pretty soon the less lethal stuff started coming out and then all of a sudden it just turned into a full out riot and what happened is an absolute tragedy and should have never happened.
Speaker 2:Um. As far as George Floyd, like the, there's just no excuse for that Um, and I think there's that he's not the only one that's happened to in Minneapolis, and it's it or in the country at this point. But the um, by not reporting accurately on these things, it does a disservice to the public because it's divisive in nature, and so that's what I've always really done my best to focus on is how do I present this in the most unbiased fashion and whenever I've done my interviews. Sometimes it was hard to get guys to agree to talk to me, because when I flipped over to journalism a lot of my buddies in Minneapolis were like oh, dark side, huh, I lost a lot of friends doing that.
Speaker 1:I don't want to talk to you anymore. Yep, exactly.
Speaker 2:Like it's just, I went on the automatic like not trusted list and over you know that first year, like as they started to see my stories coming out and getting published or like, oh, maybe he's not like some of these other journalists, um, and I guess it, it just, it's just really picked up in speed from um, you know everything that I was doing for like culture kind of um, I won't say long form narrative, but a little bit longer pieces on on you know, just boots on the ground, views of these different 911 calls or these operations. Uh, one of my best stories I've I've worked on to date was um, the Red Wings operation, but it wasn't through the seals point of view, it was through the night stalkers and it presented this whole different perspective on what had happened and what was going on. And, um, god, whole different perspective on what had happened and what was going on. And um, god, I, I worked on that for months and interviewed tons of people to, to, because, like the fog war is real and when you start talking to one guy and then all of a sudden this guy's stuff isn't making sense. So there's a lot of back and forth and then, um, I think my rough copy was like 6,000 words and luckily I had an incredible editor that was like whoa, no. And he waited until the next day to get back with me.
Speaker 2:Chapter one, yeah, chapter one, and grab your coffee or your beer, whatever you need, and get ready. And we worked through it and that was like one of the first masterclasses I had on long form narrative. It was my first one that I'd I'd ever written at that point, so that was super helpful and very eyeopening, and Ethan Rocky is a saint for being so patient with me on that stuff, because I've I had a hard time with that story of like this detail needs to be this, this and this one like it. So it all seems I had a hard time with that story of like this detail needs to be this, this and this. I'm like it's all. It all seems so important to me and I still have a problem with it to an extent, because when I, when guys trust me with their, like, worst experience in their military career, it's, it's a heavy weight on on on my shoulders as a writer.
Speaker 1:Um, and I don't say that in any heroic sense, it's just I take a lot of pride in not screwing that up, yeah, and when so many people don't, when so many people are willing to just write something that it will be salacious and we'll get a reaction, they'll throw it in there. I'm like, I'm a writer. Look at me. Wow, we let me take the truth and fabricate whatever the fuck I want to do with it. Yep, and, and they do it. People do it, but there is, there is. There are individuals such as yourself that see something as see reporting and writing the truth as something that is deeply like, impactful and meaningful, and you have to be honest about it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You can't and you can't infuse your bias and you have to go to extra a great extent to make sure your bias isn't sneaking into a story, and that's why every writer has an editor. It's an important team dynamic that that's essential. That's why some of these blogs that'll pop up and they call themselves journalists, but yet they don't have an editor.
Speaker 1:They don't have anybody going over their stuff Like I'm not going to say that they're a bad writer or anything like that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, chat GPT, that's a whole different animal. That's a rabbit hole for me. But you know, it's just one of these things where I think it's it's essential to really remove bias from media, and I guess that's what's been really driving me. And I always think back to the first journalist I ever came into contact with is this dude that worked in Minneapolis. He tried to open the back doors of my ambulance when I was working on a 13 year old that had been hit by multiple gunshots during a drive by gang shooting. And I remember my partner saying, like who's back there? And I was like I don't know, maybe one of the cops is coming to check on something or whatever. Know, maybe one of the cops is coming to check on something or whatever. And uh, so I told um, because you could tell like somebody was like looking through the back window because it's one-sided so we can see out, but they can't see in. And so I told my partner I was like why don't you go through the side door and just see who it is? And right when he was going out there, I started to see the back door start to pop open. Then all of a sudden my partner's like yelling and cussing at the person. I was like whoa, what's going on out there? And it was a journalist trying to open the damn door.
Speaker 2:When I'm dealing, I was treating a uh, underage child who had been shot multiple times like that was my first exposure to a journalist and I I talked to my brother about it because he was, he'd been a journalist for years at that point.
Speaker 2:He's whoa what you know and he's like just so you know, like not everybody's like that, don't let that, don't let that twist your uh, you know your outlook on journalism and so that was like one of those things of like I I was pretty outspoken against journalists for years at that point because I got really sick and tired of dealing with some of the local beat reporters and in the area that were constantly getting themselves into things that they shouldn't, and so part of it I went into journalism with a chip on my shoulder of like I need to prove that's not how things are done. And years after now I'm still in the field, but I feel like I've been able to work with enough journalists at this point where I know that's not the, the, the main personality that's in this field, but unfortunately a lot of people will mistake like the talking head news as real news and it's purely entertainment and people need to start, if you want to call it that.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't go that far, oh yeah entertainment for me, as far as I will laugh and laugh and laugh, because I can just sit there and be like that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong, like oh, don lemon is not a journalist and and neither neither are any of the people that are on any of these networks.
Speaker 1:It's individuals such as yourself like and that are willing to sit down and do the real hard work and, like you said, take your bias out. Yeah, and we all have it, and it takes an incredible amount of self-understanding, understanding who you are. You can be incredibly, and I know for a fact you're passionate about these stories and you want to interject, but you have the editor. You have somebody who can check that for you and make sure that the actual truth gets put out there.
Speaker 1:Oh, Josh, I want to thank you for being on here, man, and not only sharing you know, all the amazing things you're doing now, but being willing to share all the bad and the impartial and the difficult portions of life as a you know, a veteran, which is something that we often don't get when we look at social media, when we look at the happy narratives, like there are those horrible things in life that happened to all of us, but when you share the bad, when you share how you've been able to go through it, that helps other people, man. That's, uh, that's what we're here for. Thank you for sharing that, man. Um, before I go, how can people get in touch with you?
Speaker 2:Um, you, instagram is usually the best way. Um, send me a message on there or whatever, and I'm, I'm, I'm always happy to. Uh, I'm, I'm very much so an open book at this point. I'm happy to talk through anything and everything. So if somebody has questions about how do they get in touch with Hunter 7 or want to find out a little bit more about any one thing that I brought up during this interview, I'm always happy to dive into it with people. I just will caution, be patient. I balance anywhere from like five to eight stories throughout the week that I'm writing and reporting out and stuff, so sometimes I can't get to my messages right away, but, uh, instagram is the fastest way to get in touch with me heck yeah.
Speaker 1:And if you pause this episode right now and go to the episode description, you'll see his instagram handle there or on the youtube video. I'm gonna do some magic and I'll put it right there for you Sounds good right there.
Speaker 1:Don't forget to like and subscribe, dan man. Leave some comments. Yeah, make sure you like and subscribe, josh. Thank you so much, man. It's a pleasure. Please reach back out. I can't wait to have you back on the show Talk about what you're working on in the future. Man, it's awesome to have people that are willing to, you know, shed that armor and be vulnerable because, like I know what I needed the most, like it would help me. So hopefully, somebody that's listening or watching just walks away from this episode knowing like hey, you know what, like I might be going through a rough patch but I can turn it around and, who knows, that could be the next great journalist on task and purpose.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We're all. We're all human, we're all, we're all. We're all human, we're all we're, we're not invincible. So I think the better we we understand that, the quicker we can move forward in a healthy fashion absolutely.
Speaker 1:Thank y'all for tuning in and we'll see you all next time. Until then, take care. If you like what we're doing and you enjoying the show, don't forget to share us, like us, subscribe. Thank you.
