Security Halt!
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Security Halt!
#214 From Military to Civilian: Keith Cassant's Journey to Finding Purpose, Passion, and a Dream Job
In this episode of the Security Halt! podcast, host Deny Caballero speaks with Keith Cassant, co-host of the VET S.O.S podcast, about his journey from the military to civilian life. Keith shares his personal story, from his upbringing to his passion for music, which led him to join the Army band. He opens up about the challenges he faced during his transition, including struggles with low self-esteem and substance abuse.
Keith emphasizes the importance of seeking help and utilizing available resources during the transition. He shares his experience navigating various jobs before finding his dream job—one that allows him to give back to the veteran community. Together, Deny and Keith discuss the significance of finding the right job fit and the power of networking in the job search process.
They also explore why veterans should be open to new career paths and opportunities. Keith offers valuable insights on the federal job application process and highlights the benefits of working for the federal government. In addition, they discuss the Vet S.O.S podcast, which helps connect veterans with vital resources and organizations to support their transition into civilian life.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
06:16 Passion for Music in the Military
13:15 Challenges with Low Self-Esteem and Substance Abuse
19:15 Finding Fulfillment in a Job that Gives Back
25:12 Giving Back to the Veteran Community
27:26 Exploring Different Career Paths and Being Open to New Opportunities
38:14 Connecting Veterans with Resources through the Vet SOS Podcast
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LinkedIn: Deny Caballero
Connect with Keith and check out VET S.O.S podcast today!
LinkedIn: Keith Cassant, MAOL, SPHR, CEH
Instagram: vetsospodcast
Website: vetsospodcast.com
Produced by Security Halt Media
security hot podcast. Let's go.
Speaker 2:You're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare with a man who's the best?
Speaker 1:with guns, with knives, with his bare hands, a man who's been trained to ignore ignore weather to live off.
Speaker 2:The land job was disposed of enemy personnel to kill period with my attrition.
Speaker 1:All right, keith cassant. Welcome secure podcast man. Thank you for being here, man, my pleasure you know you guys usually operate on weekends only, but this is a full-time everyday effort over here at security hall. That's all. That's awesome, yeah no, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, some of us have a nine to five so we can't you know. But uh, you know, this is being done after hours. I promised my my boss that I'm not doing this between nine to five right now, so oh, no, no, no, we're not starting off on a lie.
Speaker 1:He is, he is. He is saying fuck you right now. He's got somebody on the side moving a mouse. I seen it, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Luckily, my job entails helping veterans, so I can chalk this up to to work related uh time so there you go.
Speaker 1:There's advocacy and sharing the programs. It works. It works exactly. Mutually supporting missions. Yep, he the. It was awesome being on your show, vet OSS Podcast, a couple of weeks ago and we doubled down and now we're having you on this show, because there's no need to just have one show that talks about transition.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And sharing resources for veterans, first responders. There's room for everybody, and today I want to talk about your journey. There's room for everybody, and today I want to talk about your journey. I want to talk about what path you chose, not only coming into the military, but afterwards, because when we show the human side, when we show what we individually have done, both before, during and after, it gives other people sort of a timeline, a pipeway, a path through their own journey. So, keith, before we dive into what you're doing today, tell us about your origin story man. Where did it? Where did everything kick off for Keith as a young kid, before he entered the military?
Speaker 2:Oh God, young kid, we want to go back that far, uh oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I was from upstate New York, uh, go bills, um, but yeah, like up, up, up, up, up, upstate, like almost a Canadian. But yeah, no, I always had. Well, I think my dad instilled the will to serve without actively instilling the will to serve. He himself was a Vietnam two tour Vietnam vet, marine Corps. He enlisted in the Marine Corps. He didn't even get drafted, he chose to go do what he did and you know, god bless him for it. But I think just those values and and and that work ethic and all that that came with that, um, he just instilled those things in me without. He just took off the USMC initials off of it and uh, and taught you know and brought me up, raised me that way.
Speaker 2:So, um, you know, granted, I didn't join the Marine Corps when I first joined, but or when I joined, but he was actually happy about that part. So he told me I was torn between Army and Marine Corps when I, when I ended up joining the Army yeah, he told me, because I asked him I said you know, what would you do if you were in my shoes? And he goes you know what, son, I'm really glad I don't have to have to make that decision. He walked away and I was like, well, well, screw you then. Thanks for nothing. But when I decided to go Army, he said you know, if you want to make a career out of it, you made the right choice Because in his eyes, the Marine Corps was no place to spend 20 years and try to raise a family and all that other good. That's why he got out of the Marine Corps. He's like I wanted to raise a family. I wasn't going to do it in the Corps. But yeah, all that to say, I went a very nonlinear path into the military.
Speaker 2:I joined the band. When I enlisted I said I wasn't going to do anything but the band. I scored well enough on the ASVAB that my recruiter came back and said you can do anything but be a mechanic. Yeah, he's like you scored so badly on that Back then, if I'm not mistaken, they scored like they showed you the scores between male and female and like 75% of the females scored higher in the mechanics aptitude portion than I did. So he's like you're never going to turn a wrench, but you can go be a linguist, you can go do all this other stuff. And I'm like no, it's not being the band.
Speaker 1:So your dad was great at helping you with a lot of things. Yeah, learning how to work on things was not one of them.
Speaker 2:No, because it was the typical way he was, that he was the classic father. My mom would go help your father in the garage and then I just be yelled at for an hour and a half and not learn a thing. You'd be miserable because I wasn't holding the the lamp. Just right, it's hold the flashlight. Yeah, I got it. So yeah, I had no aptitude for mechanics. Uh, yeah, it was kind of scarring in some ways, but uh, so yeah, so yeah and I joined um.
Speaker 1:Now, where did the love for uh, for music come from? Where were you always just were you involved with band growing up? Was that your first passion?
Speaker 2:slightly accelerated rank and all that kind of good stuff. And I'd like, well, did you start learning how to shoot a uh, a cannon at the age of you know eight, in the fourth grade, kind of things? That's when I started learning my job. Um, but all that to say to suck, exactly right I'm like I enjoy what I do in the army.
Speaker 2:I mean, maybe your recruiter skewed you, I don't know. But um, but yeah, it was. It was funny. It was always the the combat service support guys that would talk like that, like the combat arms guys. They love this more often than not.
Speaker 1:I mean, you've got to find your. Some of us stumble into a job, right, nobody? There isn't a pipeline in high school to develop your abilities to be the best grunt. Some would argue that wrestling and football is that. That just helps you get more CTE and TVIs. Maybe that's why you need to be a grunt, maybe that's why We'll go into that later.
Speaker 1:But when you grow up with a love for music and I have friends that were heavily involved and went into the military and that's always the origin story they worked on something from a very, very early age and they were able to progress in advance and it was in every facet of their life. It'll often, oftentimes, how do you get into college? Well, I'm going to serve in the military. Well, what am I going to do in the military? Oh, there's music program. So of course it makes sense for them to be like fuck it, man, let's do this, let's go into the, let's go into the band. So it makes perfect sense when you're able to serve and do what you love. I mean, there's, there's so much. We could sit here ad nauseum and make fun of everybody for whatever job they get.
Speaker 2:But at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:If we want to talk about passion and pursuing your passion, let's take it all the way back, yeah, and be able to focus on these stories, because you anybody can just stop fuck, give me whatever, ms, but you can't do that for the fucking band, right? You can't do that for music.
Speaker 2:So yep, yeah, yeah, and it's funny because, yeah, I had a passion for it and then at some point in my career that passion kind of died and and my my career started taking even more non-linear pathways. Um, because when I came in the army, like there was it was long enough ago, uh, where they've stopped, kind of stopped doing this, and they tried to break that the, the stigma, whatever you want to call it. But you know, a lot of us saw, a lot of folks saw the bands is we would augment military police operation, things like that in combat. So I had a lot of folks saw the bands is we would augment military police operation, things like that in combat. So I had a lot of that cross experience of going to the field. You know, I was 13 years in first infantry division, so even in the band, like we were out in the field and we were, you know, out there with everybody else, you know, getting down and dirty.
Speaker 1:I loved that, you know but I was never knew that yeah yeah, we were, you know, out there doing.
Speaker 2:Usually we were like talk security or perimeter security or whatever it might be. And I love that too, because even in the, even in high school, I was the saxophone player. That's what I played. I was a saxophone player who was also on the wrestling team, also on the football team. You know, I was that crossbreed jock and band geek at the same time kind of thing, and band geek at the same time kind of thing. So, yeah, I loved being a soldier first, and not all my fellow military musicians had the same mindset that I had, but I loved that aspect. I had no problems going out to the field and I felt like that's when I was truly serving my country. The most was when I got to cross-colonate my world like that. You know, my first I did time in Kosovo and all that kind of stuff. That was, yeah, kosovo was a summer camp, but you know like, I got to Afghanistan and I'm the battle NCO in charge of base defense for Bagram, the largest air base in all of Afghanistan, and I'm a band guy, right, and that was. I remember that I managed to lay low, do my job for about six months into that deployment and something came up and I don't remember what it was, but because I'm working with air force security forces, military, you know, army mps, the battle captain's an mp, everybody else's air force security forces and like it came up they're like. I can't remember how it came up, but like I just remember the whole talk was like like you're in a band, yes, I'm in the band. They were like when they were blown they were like we thought you were at least mp, if not infantry or something like like you play the part well and I'm okay, I'll take that as a compliment. But uh, I'm like you know, clearly I'm not screwing up if you guys had no idea that I wasn't one of those types of roles, but being able to cross-pollinate like that, not a lot of my military musician compatriots got to do that kind of stuff. I'm blessed for it Got out to Iraq and I was the mayor of Selin COIC, which is more traumatizing than being the battle in CO.
Speaker 2:But that job sucked, oh God, that just sucked. But um, but yeah, I got to serve outside of my my, uh, my field quite a bit. Uh, even then, six years at the schoolhouse, where I was instructing and teaching, I developed a passion for a huge passion for that and developing the you know, up and coming and that kind of thing, the people behind me. So, um, yeah, it was, it was. It was a crazy what 22 years and some change. But, uh, I wouldn't change it for the world. Uh, I, I got to again lead a very unique, non-linear career, if you will, uh, and then when I got out, it did not cease to or did not change, it continued to be just as non-linear and that was all over the place.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, but yeah, that's kind of the transition is, uh, is difficult for everybody, and we don't.
Speaker 1:We often sort of focus on, on two camps, um, medical discharge guys at ets as being the ones that like, hey, let's focus on these guys, you're going, you're hitting it raw, as they like to say, you're going into this experience raw dogging it. My man, you got nothing to fall back on, but the reality is it, it's, it's an important transition and an important life event for everybody, um, even the guys that do 22, 23 years, because and I and I would say that's when you have a little bit more of the identity issue yeah, that's really, really affecting guys. You've done something for a long time. You've put on that uniform, you put on those badges, you've gone into that office and sometimes it can feel like Groundhog Day, sometimes it can feel repetitive, like you hate it and you, you, you cannot wait to be out. But then you're out, yeah, and then all of a sudden, you have to reconcile that idea that you're no longer an NCO, you're no longer a service member, you're now a veteran. What was that journey like for you?
Speaker 2:Oh, tumultuous is probably the best way to put it. A lot of the gray in this beard is, my wife says, is attested to that she doesn't want to admit that. It might be hurting the kids a little bit too, but anyway, I love it. But I'll have to say yeah. So my transition started out great. Uh, I dropped my packet and I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to do law enforcement. I was gonna go. I live in virginia beach. I was gonna go be, you know, join the virginia beach police department. Why wouldn't they want a 22-year army veteran? And they did that's at first.
Speaker 1:for a lot of guys and gals that's like like the first thing. Yeah, be of service again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And, and ever since I was big back with my dad, I always had a passion to be a police officer. Over the years, all these other things came and went, even on the musical side, you know, I wanted to be a music teacher at one point and realized no, I wouldn't enjoy that. And I wanted to be, you know, like a. Well, I wanted to go warrant officer, you know, and be a band conductor in the Army band program, and you know that thing. You realize. Nope, I don't like bathing the stick. And all these things came and went.
Speaker 2:But the one thing that was consistent was police officer. Not even like I don't want to be detective, I just wanted to be a patrol officer doing my thing, helping my community. And, yeah, I started going that route and everything was going great and I put all my eggs in that basket and then that basket shattered and I was about nine months from transition when that that basket fell apart on me Basically, yeah, my, some of my demons got the better of me and the police department figured that out and they said, yeah, thank you for your service, but we're no longer interested and I love what demons specifically?
Speaker 2:uh so, man, you're gonna be as vulnerable, as you're willing to be or not, no pressure at all my man, it's, it's it's well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not anything I typically am very public about, but it's. You know, I had very low self-esteem for much of my life and I wasn't addressing a lot of the issues that I had. You know, I didn't I mean, even in combat I didn't see a whole lot of death or anything like that. So I didn't have PTSD a whole lot. Granted, we got shot at and mortared and bombed and all that kind of good stuff, but I wasn't in like direct firefights or anything. So but that was the thing. I had the issues long before I deployed and mine was more just the way I'm wired. I'm actually funny enough, I'm wired. I'm actually funny enough.
Speaker 2:I'm getting tested for OCD next month. My doctor's, finally my psychologist, is like I think you should probably go get this checked out and I think there's actually researching it and I think there's a lot of it, because my anxiety I've always been, since I was a little tight, just my anxiety was through the roof. I stress about everything and so, yeah, when you're wired like that, substances help calm those thoughts. Bingo, yeah, and that's where, and that's where the police department was like yeah, you're, we're good, they learned about you know some of my practices, if you will, and how I would quiet the thoughts and quiet my mind and things like that. Primarily alcohol, but there were times I was never buying anything off of the street as far as drugs or anything.
Speaker 1:But if I could get my hands on something, you know, yeah, and that's, that's a reality for a lot of our veterans and service members. Active duty Substance abuse is something that we we don't like to embrace as far as talk about when we're within the ranks, we like to say no, if you got an issue, go to Sudsy, go get help and get your shit squared away, but then really and truly that's how you help somebody. We have to have open discourse, you have to have an open dialogue and understand that it is within your organization from heroin to alcohol.
Speaker 1:It's within the military, yep, and it sucks. I don't advocate for hard drugs, I don't advocate for using. But what else have you given us? And the answer to that is you've given us alcohol. You've given us this idea and it's been since we were young kids. Since we were young boys, we watched the TVs or TV advertisements that make alcohol seem like an amazing thing for men. It's how you relax, it's in every TV show and movie. So of course it makes sense.
Speaker 1:When we experience something abnormal and we experience a life like in the military, we're always constantly in high stress. The first thing that we're going to reach for is alcohol, and there's no shame in talking about it and saying like, hey, I leaned on it, I used it way too much and it could have bit me and it could have led me down the same road that tons of my friends, sadly, have followed, and it sucks. But the only way we change the culture is by talking about it, the only way we push back against drug use, illicit drug use, things like heroin, crystal meth, cocaine all those things seem fun, they seem great when you're in the middle of, you know, your worst day on earth, or, for a lot of us long periods of time under prolonged stress. But the reality is, none of these substances are going to take away the pain. None of them are going to reduce the stress.
Speaker 1:You're just going to create more problems, and it sucks that you had this dream and this idea and that was part of the. You know why it fell apart? Yeah, but what did you do on the back side of that? How did you come up for air, so to speak?
Speaker 2:that's really where all the gray came from, cause, yeah, uh, I was left figuring out what I wanted to be when I grew up. All over again, you know, um, and it it hit hard.
Speaker 2:I mean, what disqualified me from joining the police department is what I turned to for a little bit again pretty heavily after that, uh, but, yeah, cause you know the way the academy was lined up, I mean the word I'm still got nine months of time left in uniform when this happened. So I still got nine months of service left, and so I had that buffer. Thank God that I had that buffer. Um, because, yeah, I needed every bit of it. Uh, because I didn't, I just went into freak out mode and I shut down for a few months and I, yeah, I went to some dark places and and and things got worse in that regard. Um, and then, finally, you know, it's just that something I was like I gotta, I gotta do something, I gotta figure something out. So, at that point, that's when I started leveraging every single little, anything I could get my hands on, from nonprofits to mentors, to, you know, you know, soldier for life tab, I mean, you name it anything. And if somebody was willing to talk to me or provide me some kind of assistance or service, I was grabbing ahold of it. Um, you know, and I was the, at that point, the quintessential veteran, that is all over the map.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know, I was looking at jobs in security because, you know, keeping in line with that, I was looking at jobs and teaching, uh, because I had that passion, even though I didn't knew I didn't want to be a school teacher, I just needed something. And I and uh, my last story was actually I was, uh, at an nco academy. Uh, it is, you know, on the slc side of the house. So, so, you know, teaching senior leaders and I love that job. So I was looking at like leadership, consulting, leadership development type jobs, but it's really hard to maintain resumes across all those fields, and so I was getting nowhere and it was several of my managers, but one in particular, who really put her boot up.
Speaker 2:My rear end was like Keith, you gotta pick one of these lanes and go for it, because you're you're spinning your wheels otherwise, um, and so a lot of soul searching and and and things like that. I ended up finally kind of honing in on you know what I think HR is where I'm gonna try to reinvent myself. Uh, you know, yeah, because at least in HR there's some like you can get like training jobs and leadership development and professional development of organizations and stuff. So, yeah, decided to go that route and drill down on that route, still nonlinear, though. First job was with Fleet and Family Support, which is Army's version of, uh, the navy's version of acs. So, you know, helping folks. I'm at a local installation here in virginia beach. Uh, yeah, that didn't last long though, uh, just because I was chasing the dollar signs at first. So, uh, I was.
Speaker 2:I didn't even finish onboarding with them, which they weren't happy about, uh, because, I got I got a job offer with Wells Fargo which was paying considerably more and that was an apprenticeship. So even then it wasn't HR heavy per se. They were going to train me and teach me how to be a branch manager from the ground up, and I was in the program for a year, but I was with them for a year and a half, so I worked my way up to being a branch manager and ran my own branch for about six months. Wells Fargo I sing their praises from the rooftops. They really truly do value veterans and have a lot of amazing veterans programs out there and they I credit them to just, you know, getting me on the right path to just stability and providing me with something.
Speaker 1:It wasn't, obviously, you know, my, my end state, um, but all that I want to pause that for a second and kind of dive into that Cause a lot of guys are in that same boat, but that's a vast majority of our veterans getting out. They don't know what they want. But there are these amazing opportunities for like hey, this is not the dream job. Yeah, this is opportunities for like hey, this is not the dream job. Yeah, this is not your happily ever after. But you can come in. We have a veteran, a program for veterans, for you to learn how to do a job that will pay you well, where you are going to be a benefit to this organization. The organization is going to be a benefit for you.
Speaker 1:You might turn around and love it. You might actually fall in love with it. You might fall in love with the pig. You might say, you know what, with makeup on, this pig is perfect.
Speaker 1:But at the end of the day, this kind of helps everybody out there with that fear. That's the one thing when I deal with one-on-one coaching with guys. There's instantly remove the fear from this program, remove the fear from this part of life. Sorry, no one's going to do that for you, but you have to understand there are resources out there, there are programs that you can become.
Speaker 1:You can literally walk out of the military, get into one of these programs and be able to understand OK, I'm making money, I'm being of service to an organization like this is not going to be a forever, but hey, I can put food on the table, kids are going to get their shoes, mom's going to be happy. And now I can still take that entrepreneurial course, I can still go to school, I can still develop that plan of action for that next great, wonderful, forever job. Yep, and that that's like. That's one of the things that people don't really realize. They just want to jump into something, be like their forever thing. Well, maybe, maybe the forever thing comes after this job yeah, yeah, and I mean statistically speaking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's, it's your. I can't remember what it was last statistic I saw it was like in the upper 90th percentile that you were pretty much statistically guaranteed to not be in the same job two years post separation. So I mean sometimes it's like six months, seven, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean mine was less than two weeks. I didn't even finish onboarding, for if you count, that job would complete family support as my first job.
Speaker 1:So I mean I wish I would have been able to record that. Just be able to bend their guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was not, I appreciate you yeah, that hire manager was not happy, but I mean, it is what it is. So, um, I don't know if it was the healthiest not. I've heard things have gotten a whole lot better in years, over the years, but at that time the, the work environment, wasn't the healthiest to begin with. So, um, but uh, yeah, all that to say yeah and you know, but that was a thing. So, even the wells fargo job I love wells fargo, I love the people I worked with, um, but the job was killing me because I am an empath to the extreme and, as a branch manager, nobody wants to talk to the branch manager when they're in a good mood. So I was dealing with negativity day in and day out and, like the rest of my team, they got to deal with the good and the bad. You know the happy customers and the unhappy customers. I just dealt with unhappy customers for a year and a half straight just about, and, um, so again, I I'm so thankful for Wells Fargo, for the opportunity, and other people could do the job and they're not empath like me I was. I was taking a lot of negativity on me. So, uh, so I knew that wasn't the end state, but this, that whole time I was with them for a year and a half. That whole time I was developing a new passion I didn't even realize I had, which is essentially, you see where I'm leading, where you know what we're doing now, where. Because once I landed on my feet, once I got that, even with Fleet Family Support, but more so with Wells Fargo once I knew I was going to be okay and I made it quote, unquote, right, I tell everybody one day you're going to wake up and you're going to, you're going to realize I finally made it. Journey's not over, but you're okay.
Speaker 2:Once I hit that point, I had leveraged so many non-profits, so many mentors, the whole way that I was like I've got to give back. I cannot, just I can't have taken advantage of all this and not do my part to give back to that community. So I started mentoring, you know, and I started volunteering with, you know, onward Opportunity, you know, helping teach some of their classes and do some of their panels and stuff. I started volunteering with USO Pathfinders, especially being in Wells Fargo, anytime, locally to where I'm at here in Hampton Roads, virginia, anytime somebody was like thinking of going finance. They were like go talk to Keith, you know. So you know I was volunteering with them. I'm a volunteer mentor with Veterati. God bless it. It's on its way out. You heard, you saw the email, but shutting down on us, but I was volunteering on there. Yes, they're going to shut down at the end of the month, unfortunately, um man yeah, but volunteering a lot of dudes out their way, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I broke my heart when I got that email seemed kind of sudden. But, you know, hopefully, maybe, maybe we started gofundme or something. I don't know why they're shutting down, um, but you know them, uh, hires, usa, ac, american Corporate Partners, all organizations that I leveraged. When I got out, I'm like, yeah, let me go back and get back to them. So that started this whole journey and this whole passion. That started to bleed over even in Wells Fargo.
Speaker 2:So I'm a branch manager, I'm a branch manager apprentice at that, but they were affording me the opportunities to go to hiring events at the local installations around here and sing wells fargo praises, wells fargo's praises, because gets their name out there in a good light. But at the same time, I'm helping service members, I'm helping veterans, and that that was so much more rewarding for me. Um, and that journey would continue on through two more jobs after that, um, before I finally found a way to get paid to do what I'm doing. Uh, and, and it's amazing, I mean I'm in my dream job now. I've had five jobs, uh, and yeah, it took me five to to find my dream job, but I'm, I'm here and and uh, it's dude and and we gotta we gotta sit down and dissect this for a little bit.
Speaker 1:Man Like you, just your entire journey is what a lot of our veterans need to understand. Like, is it the perfect template? No, not for everybody, but that's the thing about this journey. You don't know. If you just quit, if you just accept the Wells Fargo job and just stay there and you never learn to love it and it never becomes your thing and you're always bitter, then you're never going to get to that dream job. You're just staying, you're being complacent. And what does complacency do to you? Out in the field, out in the training environment, out in real world combat? It fucking kills you. But you need the Wells Fargo job. You needed to put food on the table. You needed to put food on the table. You needed to be able to get that income, yep, but don't just sit there and be angry and be frustrated.
Speaker 1:Keep working towards the next endeavor, keep dreaming. And here's the biggest thing, the biggest factor. It's not even the job, it's not even that wonderful dream. It's understanding what the hell you want to do, what your dream really is. It's going to change. You're going to wake up one day you want to do what your dream really is. It's going to change. You're going to wake up. One day you'll be I want to have a podcast, or I want to have a youtube channel, and that shit's going to change. I want to be the next big twitch star. That shit's going to change.
Speaker 1:And I will say, for a vast majority of you listening, even civilians, it's being of service to others. When you're connected with one person or helping another individual, that's incredibly rewarding. That's like holy shit, I'm making a difference. Keep pulling the layers back, keep pulling that string, keep going down that road and then discover what, ultimately, is that true calling? Maybe it is to work with a nonprofit. That's one thing that I realized. There's a lot of veterans out there that don't even realize that they scribe an idea, they're describing this thing they're really passionate about, and then you're like sounds like working with a nonprofit. They're like that could never happen, I could never do that. And it's like and the same person, same person. A year later they're working with a nonprofit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I had a guy, and so this yeah, you're reminding me of what one of the things I talked to folks about, because, if you notice, you and I are both saying the dream job. We're not saying the perfect job, right, cause the perfect job doesn't exist, and that's that's. Another harsh reality for veterans is we want to find a forever home and we want it to be the perfect job, and it's like you're, yeah, you're never going to find the perfect job. I'm in my dream job, and so what I tell folks is there's five things to love about a job right, and in no particular order. The first one's the money right, which is the one we get hung up around the axle about right. The second one is the hours. That's another blessing. We didn't realize we had the military right In that you have a doctor's appointment at 3 o'clock in the afternoon. You just tell your supervisor hey, I got this doctor's appointment, I'll see you tomorrow.
Speaker 2:When I worked at Wells Fargo, I had a doctor's appointment at 3 o'clock in the afternoon. I had to take leave right and get paid, and it's not a knock against Wells Fargo, but it's customer service brick and mortar when that branch is open. I got to be there for the customers, so that flexibility can be huge. So that's, but that's only the second of the five. Third one is the location Right, whether it's physical location, remote telework, whatever you're, you know, are you willing to go where the work is Right? That kind of thing. The fourth thing is the people, which is really the culture. You know, healthy work environment. You know we're all talking about toxic leadership nowadays and we don't talk about toxic followership as much, which I don't know why that is, but that's the thing too. Um, and then the last thing is just the actual work itself, the job you're doing. Um, because that last thing isn't, isn't important to some people. I met a retired first who handed towels out at the gym and he was as happy as could be because he was like I did 25 years, I was a senior leader, and when I I don't want, when I retired, I didn't want any responsibility for anyone but myself for the rest of my life. He's like I hand towels out and I could not be happier. Um, you know so. So those are the five things money, hours, location, people slash, culture and the actual work itself.
Speaker 2:And I tell people what are your top three? Because, again, perfect job doesn't exist, right, you're never going to find all five out of five. But if you can find your top, if you could figure out what your top three are and then find a job that that meets those top three statistically, you will be happy in that job, right, and that takes a lot of pressure off of service members as they're transitioning out, like, oh, I don't have to go find a job that gives me the perfect hours and meets all these marks. If I can just find something that meets my top three, at least to start, I'm going to be happy. And if you can find one that meets four out of your top five, you're really happy in that job. Like I said, I'm in my dream job and I'm in the decimal points, I'm at like a four and a half out of five. Because there's still stuff I would change. I would argue, I will argue all day long. You're never, I've never met anybody that says they have all five out of five. Right, because there's always something we could change if we would, or would change if we could, absolutely. So again, getting service members to understand that like hey, um. So again, getting service members to understand that like hey, let's just say hypothetically, the perfect job does exist. You're not going to find it for your first job outside of the uniform, right, it's, it's, it's a journey. It's good Cause, like you said, it changes. When I first got out, the job itself, the the last thing, that work piece, let's say it lasted on any order, but that last one I mentioned, that wasn't in my top three and it wasn't until I got my third job, which was with the Coast Guard.
Speaker 2:My first federal job was with the Coast Guard. It was after Wells Fargo. I had four out of my five. The Coast Guard people I worked with were amazing. The hours were telework, super flexible, so, like it was telework. I was working from home three days a week, the, the, the. My bosses were like we don't care when you do your 40 hours, as long as you give us 40 hours a week. So I'd roll out like the days I worked from home. I'd roll out of bed rolling on my computer, cause I'm on early bird. I'd roll on at 5.00 AM and I'd be done by 1.00 PM. I was four out of the five. I hated the job because there was no work satisfaction for me and again, not knocking it, I was for the Coast Guard. I was a C-school scheduler, which in Army language, I was an HR's manager. You know how boring that can be.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, yep. Immediately no. Immediately no Exactly.
Speaker 2:So, but I got my foot in the federal door, which was also, you know, I wanted to go back. That's huge, that's huge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of guys. If you don't, if you're not thinking about setting up that federal resume before you get out, start working on that. That is look, and you just said it. It's not you're not going to be in love with a job, but 90% of the time you're going to get great pay, you're going to be working around some good people and you can use that. That can be your runway into your next thing. So, on top of your civilian resume, develop that federal resume and start looking at USA Jobs or USA Gov. Is it USA Jobs or USA Gov? Usa Jobs? Yep, usa Jobs or USA gov.
Speaker 2:Is it USA jobs or USA jobs? Yep, usa jobs.
Speaker 1:Looking there yeah, there you go, because there's tons of resources out there that will help you put together that resume and then you can start plugging it in. You do have to be completely on the other side before they'll start looking at you. But hey, you already got the federal resume done. Then you're halfway there.
Speaker 2:Man, that's actually a misnomer so I will really actually push back on that. Yeah, it depends on your situation. That whole six month cool down period and all that kind of stuff. Um, again, I'm not a lawyer, so there's an asterisk next to what I'm about to say, but as it was explained to me by lawyers and I've been told I can say this from lawyers is that as long as you haven't worked alongside that agency while you were in uniform, then that whole cool down time period doesn't exist.
Speaker 2:Um, in fact, for those that are listening and stuff, if you're familiar with the, the, the, the veteran hiring authorities that are available to us for for federal, uh, uh, employment, the VRA one, uh, which, which is, uh, you know, basically you qualify for it for the first three years out outside of the uniform once you're DD-214.
Speaker 2:Therein lies everything. I have to wait until I get my DD-214. No, the federal government we can actually consider you and even select you for a federal job under the VRA hiring authority with just a statement of service letter that's where you've heard that term before too A statement of service letter from your commander. If you have that and it has all the information we need on it, we can actually basically consider you and even select you for a job right up until the DD-214 moment. We just can't move forward with actually putting in the paperwork to start the onboarding and all that other, the background checks and all that. We can't move forward with that until we have the DD-214 in hand. But you can be considered for federal employment even while you're on terminal leave with just that statement of service letter Nice.
Speaker 1:And that's exactly how 90% of your supply sergeants get their federal jobs. That is a fact. That is a fucking fact. Right, fucking snakes in the grass, every last one of you, every right. If you fucking snakes in the grass every last one of you, every last one of you from e4 to warrant officer, you've got a lock on the entire system and it's such a, it's a fucking mafia but they're smart, I think, I think it's a mentorship thing.
Speaker 1:I think it's a mentorship um thing and and hell more power to you. Supply core. That it's the one mos it's. They take care of their guys and it's such a slept-on MOS and system. They do a really good job of ensuring that they brief their junior NCOs and senior NCOs on every avenue. They can get every job, every resource on the outside.
Speaker 1:More of us need to do that while we're in uniform and understand what you're cause, even if you're infantry. There's this. This is big misconception, I agree. Just infantry, you're worthless. I'm like I beg to differ. Yeah, there's a spot for you on a federal job somewhere out there. You just need to know how to apply Exactly, and that's something that we don't. Good enough job talking about the federal job programs out there. So start digging into it. Like I said, maybe it's not your forever gig, yeah, but a lot of good money out there, yeah, and there's still a lot of telework opportunities, um, which, hey, for me that's, that's amazing I'm 100 remote so, yeah, I work from home, so tell us about what you're doing these days.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, my journey landed me to my dream job. So I am the Veterans Program Manager for the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, which is a mouthful so we say CISA for short which a lot of people haven't even heard of us. We're actually the youngest agency in the federal government we're only about five years old, and we fall under Department of Homeland Security. And everybody gets hung up on the first half of our name, cybersecurity, which that's absolutely the largest part of our mission. But we are responsible for all of the nation's critical infrastructure. So you name it the dams, the power grids, the roads, the water supplies, right? So we have a large physical security aspect to us as well. And then we even oversee, like the 911 systems, emergency community. So we have an entire division dedicated just to emergency communications. Uh, for 911 systems, police radios, all that kind of good stuff uh, no idea you guys existed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is. This is all new to me it's not really new because I went on your linkedin page and I, yeah, but you're right, we, we hear cyber security and that's the first thing. We, we which also a very uh, happening thing for a lot of parents. They want to be involved in cyber security, but I don't know anything about this. The other side of the infrastructure what do you guys do, um, on that side of the house?
Speaker 2:yeah. So even on the cyber side we are. We don't own any of the stuff I just rattled off as an agency. Right, we don't own the dams, we don't own the power grids or even the cyber network. So we are largely policy and advisory in nature. So we have two entire divisions, not solely but primarily dedicated just to outreach and partnership and relationship building and all that kind of stuff. So so yeah, like we've, we've got, you know, specialized offices, like in chemical security, bombing, we got a bombing prevention office, yeah, all those you know, a lot of EOD guys find homes over there and kind of things you know.
Speaker 2:And then we've got boots on ground all over the country. Like every inch of our country has at least two, sometimes more, but at least two people from CISA assigned to it. There are boots on ground, there are ground troops and there's a cybersecurity advisor and a physical security advisor and assigned a region of our country. And they are. They are out there peddling sis's wares, if you will. You know, local municipalities, local organizations and businesses and they're out there building that relationship, building that partnership, building that trust because we also don't have law enforcement authority building that trust because we also don't have law enforcement authority. So at the end of the day when we put out a policy or an alert or an advisory or something, nobody technically has to listen to us, but that's where our folks on ground are, out there building those relationships. So when we do that people know to listen, that we have their best interest at heart kind of thing. Because everybody says always trust the guy who says that you can trust me. I'm with the federal government, right.
Speaker 1:I believe no one's ever said that. Exactly.
Speaker 2:So we have to build that trust. But yeah, so you know, we do have some quasi operational arms to us, especially on the cyber side. We've got, you know, the secret, squirrel cyber stuff. You know the, you know the threat hunters know the secret squirrel cyber stuff.
Speaker 2:You know the uh. You know the threat hunters yeah, digital forensics and threat hunters and even like intel guys, come find homes with us because we have all sorts intel analyst type positions. You know all the guys that like to work in windowless rooms and never see the light of day um you know, we've got those jobs exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've got those types of jobs too, um, but we don't have the law enforcement authority. So even when we something pops off, you know we have our folks of jobs. And you know, even my first job in this agency wasn't the veterans program manager. I've had two jobs in the agency. My first job, um, I got because I had an old army buddy, uh, that works in this agency. In fact he was my first ncoic at my first unit back in 1998 when I came in. So that's how old I am. But he, uh, and therein goes everybody listening, right, heard it. It's not what you know, it's who you know. Right, and I'm a complete testament to that. I've had five jobs since I retired. Four out of my five jobs I got through networking. That Wells Fargo job was the only one. I didn't know somebody on the inside.
Speaker 1:The other four, even the fleet family support job, I knew somebody on the inside networking, networking, networking exactly it is one of the greatest resources that's free to you for like a year is linkedin premium. Yep, that's one of the greatest things out there. And and I know everybody listening is like yeah right, I'm not gonna get a job by just talking to people. I, I got my first job out of the military. Yep, I didn't want to give myself the idea that I could succeed in a nonlinear way. So I was like, well, you know, I'm going to do this thing on the side. I'm going to podcast on the side. There's no way I could be an entrepreneur. So I need to get a job. First, job through a connection made on LinkedIn and that's the story for so many veterans and through a connection made on LinkedIn and that's the story for so many veterans. And people want to push back and I get it.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of angry individuals that will say you can't just get a job through a network. And I'm like hey, look, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you, I'm sorry it was very difficult for you, I'm sorry it wasn't an easier road to navigate, but the truth is, yes, you can meet somebody on linkedin. Tell them up front. Hey, I have questions about this job, this industry. Here's who I am. There's an entire freaking industry of network and transition coaches and people that will help you develop this. Yep, it's a. It's a cold call. It's a. It's a virtual cold bump. If you will Talking with somebody with an industry that you're interested in, it could lead to a job. It could lead to you. Hey, come on in, we're actually looking for veterans. Yep, believe it or not, people love veterans. Yeah, see what it takes to go through and become the MP, what it takes to become the civil affairs officer, what it takes to become a PSYOP NCO. They see the hard work that you've done and they will give you a shot to interview for a position.
Speaker 1:It sounds crazy, but it happens all the time.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And allow me to even push back on our naysayers that are listening in from the hiring manager's perspective, right, because I, because I like to tell folks what, why it's so effective from a hiring manager's perspective, so as a hiring manager?
Speaker 2:I don't. Because I've been, I've got hiring manager experience under my own belt as well. As a hiring manager, my job is not to pick the close the quote most qualified candidate. It's not right, because if my recruiters are doing their job properly, everybody that hits my desk could probably do this job blindfolded, with their hands tied behind their back. My job as the hiring manager is to find the best fit, the best fit for my team, the best fit for my organization, the best fit for the culture that we're trying to establish or maintain.
Speaker 2:Now, not all hiring managers get that, but I would argue the good ones do, and that is really hard to do from a stack of 20 resumes. Right, but they're in lies where, if somebody else who has clout with me, somebody else who has a relationship with me, somebody who else is a proven fit for my organization and our culture, if they come to me with your name in their mouth, stands to reason, you would be a good fit too. And you're now a safer bet, because I say bet because I'm gambling off of pieces of paper on who might be a good fit. So, yeah, you get your name thrown in my ear. You just got a huge leg up on that competition because I'm gambling and you just became my safe bet there. So that's why it tends to be Now again, people are going to push back.
Speaker 2:Well, that's good old boys club or that's nepotism? I would argue that it's good old boys club and it's nepotism when unqualified people network their way into a job. That's when it's wrong. But if you are fully qualified to do that job and you just get your name thrown out there and somebody's willing to vouch for you, that's how you build healthy organizations. My agency I'm paid to plug them one way or the other, but even if I wasn't paid, my agency is one of the healthiest workplaces I've ever seen as as an organization. Granted, you know we're 3,300 people. There's going to have, we're going to have bad eggs in our ranks. You know some in some spots. You know we're going to avoid it. All Right, but as a whole, our our director's retired army herself and she preaches it from the top down people first, and we do that by finding the right people that fit the culture that we're trying to maintain. And to 85 percent of jobs, depending on what study you read, 70, 85 percent of all jobs are attained with networking. That's huge. It's huge it's huge.
Speaker 1:Before you click that easy apply on linkedin. Do a little bit of internet sleuthing, go on linkedin yep, find who works at that company. Fine, look at your own connection and then, if you haven't gone on LinkedIn, it's okay, start today. Send me a friend request. I will plug you in to any network. Introduce you to whoever you want. It's literally something that I love to do. Or reach out to Keith. I'm sure he'll do the same thing.
Speaker 1:And spoiler alert if you pause right now, go to the episode description. It's LinkedIn connection is right there. I'll put it in there. I put it in because one of the things that you have to realize if you're transitioning you have to get out of your comfort zone and be willing to engage and talk with people, not more than ever. That's the greatest gift that you have already developed from the military. You've been counseled, you've counseled other soldiers, you've mentored individuals. You know how to build rapport, you know how to sell yourself and if you're an officer, you've already done an elevator pitch. Every single day of your life You've already been doing this. So you should be more than comfortable being willing to just connect with somebody and say, hey, this is me. I'm a normal human being. I'd like to talk to you, another normal human being, about your organization. It's that simple folks.
Speaker 2:And just be inquisitive, right? I mean, that's the thing too, is people think, oh well, I'm, I'm asking for something from them, and like I'm asking them for a job? No, you're not. In fact, you're probably gonna hurt your chances if you're just like you got a job for me, right, just be inquisitive, ask about the job, ask about them. Everybody loves to talk about themselves, so you know, ask them like what is the job like? What is the culture like? Is it a healthy work environment? You know, you can also ask some of those things that are maybe a little bit more faux pas, but like I wouldn't say what does it pay? But is the salary commensurate with the industry standards?
Speaker 2:You know, a question I love to ask about work culture, without asking about work culture, is if there's one thing you could change about the organization, what would it be? That's going to tell me so much of what I want to know about that organization? But, yeah, what can I do to be more competitive for a job like this? What certifications or training can I go get? What do they look for on a resume? Again, none of this point. Are you asking about a job? But if you're truly inquisitive, genuinely curious, that's going to come across is that genuineness is going to come across and you're going to start building rapport with them. So, god willing, if you do this a few times with them over a few different conversations, and that job opens up in their organization, either they've already found about it and they're reaching out to you about it, or, if you see it on their website or whatever, you can reach back out and be like, hey, this job just opened up in your organization. I'm going to apply for it and I'm super excited and I just want to thank you for your time. You didn't ask them to do anything else.
Speaker 2:Chances are, if they know who that hiring manager is, you know or know somebody else who does they're going to try to throw your name out there for a couple of reasons. One, everybody loves to feel good story If I help so-and-so get this job. But two again, good organizations not all but good organizations. I say they have referral bonuses because they understand the getting the right people in the right seats Right, so they understand that word of mouth referral, so that person refers you and you get the job. They get a nice little bump, a little monetary bump, in the next paycheck, which is a nice little incentive to boot. So in my agency again just to pitch mine, cisa, even the federal government we have referral bonuses Because you know, we again we understand the power of finding the right people through networking. So yeah, so yeah. And if somebody wanted to google and find out more about sysa, where should they go?
Speaker 1:it is entirely too easy sysagov, c-i-s-a. Charlie, india, sierra, alpha. Yep, just go right here. We'll drop down to youtube. You'll see it pop up right there. Go visit them today. Or just pause, go to episode description. Or, after you listen to it and watch it, go to episode description. There'll be a link right there. And, keith, before I let you go, let's talk about your show. Let's talk about your own endeavors in getting the more resources out to veterans and first responders and our active duty folks. Tell us about your show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I can't call it my show. For sure I'm honored.
Speaker 1:You're affiliated with the show.
Speaker 2:But I'm so honored to be a part of it. That's the thing. It really is such a blessing. So, sean Welsh, it is his show, he is the founder of the SOS podcast and he just he started it during his own transition. He wasn't even out himself and he started this resource up and I've just been blessed to be able to be a small part of it, this resource up, and I've just been blessed to be able to be a small part of it. But yeah, I mean yeah, every week. We recently switched times, so we're now on Tuesday evenings at 7 PM Eastern standard time or daily, say whatever Eastern time. Yeah, 7 PM every week. We're just we're interviewing a new resource within the community, just like what Denny's doing here.
Speaker 2:Just, you know, putting out different nonprofits and mentorship programs and opportunities, just showing service members and veterans what's out there and available to them, even in the you know, the mental well-being and mental health space. You know lots. That show is so incredible. It's gaining more and more traction every day and I'm like I just want to scream it from the rooftops because again, I just get to be a co-host. I mean, sean does all the work in the background and stuff. I'm like brother, I feel like I can't even lay claim to being a part of this program because he does so much work behind the scenes. I just show up every week and talk, so it's all him, exactly Right, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, no, no, it's, but it's, it's, it's all him. He deserves all the credit. I just I hope I'm not detracting from from the quality of his production in any way, shape or form. Um, and I come up on the heels of eric brew, who was the previous co-host. Um, and he's, you know, you met him recently and yeah, he's an amazing individual. Uh, you know, just, the situation come up, came up that he couldn't be a committed co-host anymore and it was his loss, was my gain. I get to, I got to.
Speaker 2:You know, sean reached out to me and asked if I'd be willing to come on board as a co-host and I was completely honored. But, yeah, definitely check it out. That sos podcast. You google it. I mean, we're on multiple different platforms streaming, as well as the website and everything. And again, it's it's just to provide you. What I love is our tagline Right, so don't drown in the sea of transition.
Speaker 2:Grab the vet SOS lifeline, because we've all heard it. You know, depending on again, I've seen different numbers out there, but around forty five to forty seven thousand nonprofits registered with the IRS just for veterans. There's no way you can navigate all that right, but even as a mentor, I can't, I don't know about all the stuff that's out there, and that's where Vet SOS is trying to help sort some of that out and introduce you to some of the organizations that are out there and allowing them to basically pitch for lack of a better phrase or tell us what they're doing and how they might be of assistance to you as a service member or a veteran, or even a military spouse. So yeah, there's no shortage of goodwill out there for the veteran communities. You said it earlier, everybody loves veterans, everybody wants to help veterans, but not all are created equal and each one has their own niche. So we're just trying to help service members, veterans and military spouses navigate that sea of transition, that sea of goodwill, to find the niches that suit their needs.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, keith. I can't thank you enough for being here today, brother, remarkable journey, amazing show that you're a part of. Thank you for all that you're doing to help our veterans and to all you listening and tuning in today. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for listening. We'll see you all next time. Until then, thank you. If you like what we're doing and you're enjoying the show, don't forget to share us, like us, subscribe and remember we get through this together. Take care, thank you.
