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Episode 191: Mike Stone, Assistant Director of Development for Operation Healing Forces
What does life look like after a career in special operations? Mike Stone, the Assistant Director of Development for Operation Healing Forces (OHF), shares his incredible journey from the battlefield to the nonprofit world, shedding light on the transformative power of service beyond military life. Mike opens up about his own experience attending an OHF retreat, an event that profoundly enhanced his well-being and relationships. He passionately encourages veterans to step beyond their comfort zones and explore new career opportunities, such as using LinkedIn to discover pathways they might not have considered before.
In this episode, we delve into the comprehensive support that the OHF program offers to special operations families. These efforts include therapeutic couples' retreats and immediate financial assistance for unforeseen crises. We discuss the crucial role of family in maintaining individual well-being and the importance of overcoming the stigma associated with seeking help. Hear firsthand accounts of how these interventions have made a significant difference, demonstrating the necessity of a holistic approach to sustaining the mental and emotional health of those in high-stress roles.
Lastly, we confront the pervasive issue of PTSD and chronic stress within the military community. Mike shares his personal experiences and insights into various treatments, including the stellate ganglion block procedure, which has provided immediate relief for many. He discusses the profound impact of community support, and how connection and timely intervention can help veterans overcome crises. Join us for this heartfelt episode that highlights the indispensable resources available through Operation Healing Forces and the lasting impact they have on the lives of veterans and their families.
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Produced by Security Halt Media
And dispose of enemy personnel to kill period.
Speaker 1:And welcome mike stone security podcast, the assistant director of development of operation healing forces. Thank you for being here today, brother. We got my pleasure. We got to shoot fast and move through this. I know you're a busy man, but, man, thank you so much for being here. Operation Healing Forces is doing amazing work for our soft veterans. I benefited from you guys helping me out yeah, getting my word out there, so I can help advocate for those that need it most, which, oddly enough, is the guys within our community, because we're the quiet professionals. So, mike, thank you for being here today. Let's kick it off, man, because one thing that I found out a lot of the individuals working in these nonprofits, they're members of our community as well. These are guys and gals that left service and said you know what I belong in? A nonprofit space. I'm passionate about this. So let's begin with your journey, man. How did you get into the nonprofit space?
Speaker 2:So, yeah, thank you for the question, man, and it's good to hear that you're a fellow alumni of the OHF as well, because that's what brought me to the organization, Kind of like you. You know, I'd gone my whole career. I've been in special operations, let's see, I think 13 years at that point and I got this email. I said, hey, you have this opportunity to go to a retreat. I'm like what Like, are you phishing me? Like, is this a? What Like is this? Are you fishing me? Like, is this a scam? And no, I looked into it and I'm like, wow, this sounds pretty amazing and I had never benefited from anything like that before. So I was like you know what? I was at a point in my career where, you know, stress was high. I think I was just recovering from a surgery off of an injury about six months previously. So I was kind of struggling with my own personal demons. I'm like you know what? Maybe personal demons. I'm like you know what? Maybe this will be a good time to do this. And so I took my girlfriend then, who's now my fiance. So this tells you how well the program works. Um, we are able to go on this retreat up to a green briar, uh, with Billy, and, uh, I was like, wow, just summarily impressed. You know the, the, the couples that we were there with all special operations, people all struggling with the same things, all kinds of different phases of our career Like, I was arguably at the sunset of mine and there was a couple of young kids that are just starting out or in a couple of mid grades, so it was kind of a nice cross section of our special operations community of people in different phases and different expectations, and so, uh, it was a great experience. It was wonderful for me and Kathy had a great time together. It brought us a lot closer together and we still laugh about things that happened during that week because it was, it was just a fun time to focus on yourselves, Right, and that's kind of what we one of the things we focus on here at OHF is giving our operators that chance to connect with their families, because we're so busy doing that we forget.
Speaker 2:You know, this is the most important thing of our lives, right. That army is a great thing, but it's also a temporary thing and you have to focus on what's the most important and that's your family, and so you need to invest in that, you need to spend time on that and, uh, OHF provides that opportunity. So I retired um and I was kind of looking around trying to figure out what I wanted to do and going through a couple of different transition programs. Uh, the one constant that I settled on was whatever I did in my post military life, it would have to have some element of service. Right, I have to provide some value back to the community, not just making money, right, I'm not about making dollars, Clearly. I joined the army.
Speaker 2:Becoming rich was never in my cards, Uh, so so that was, uh, that was the kind of the constant theme throughout my job search. And then, uh, luckily enough, I'd seen a posting from OHF at the end of the year last year, but I'd missed the application window and so I was like man, and so I emailed the CEO. I was like, hey, look, I know it's closed, but let me know the next time you're looking, because I'm interested, very interested, and I want to be part of the team. And so, sure enough, fast forward a few months later and they opened up a position and I came in and interviewed the CEO, thankfully, was impressed enough and she gave me a chance. And now I've been on the job for about six weeks so I'm learning as we go, but I have the benefit of being through it, just like you, right? So I kind of know the program from the receiving end and now I'm kind of learning about it on the operating side.
Speaker 1:So that's what kind of got me here, but it's been a good trip so far, yeah, and I want to pause and kind of revisit what you just mentioned. You saw an opportunity and you just made that connection and that is something that throughout this entire little experience of reaching out, talking about transition with guys we are so hesitant to do, we're really hesitant to get on LinkedIn to see the opportunities and maybe the job posting seems a little ambiguous. It doesn't specifically say 18 Delta or 18 Echo or 18 Zulu. So we look at the ambiguity of the job we don't even look at the description and we see all the things that we do. It blows my mind. Senior leaders as well, star majors, guys that have operational experience maybe they have to already taking that program director. Course They've gone through and gotten a couple certifications, but they still tell themselves hey, no, that's not for me. How did you break that barrier? How do you tell that critic to shut up and just say you know what I'm going to talk to these?
Speaker 2:people. Yeah, no, that's a key point, danny, that's a. I mean, it's something I learned again through practice and experience and transition, and it's something I do. The same thing I tell everybody. Who's doing it next is like, look, you got to get past your own inner voice and you're going to do stuff that's going to make you uncomfortable. But guess what? You know, that's what we've trained for our whole career. Right, get comfortable being uncomfortable. But I think we're used to our level of uncomfortable. I can be physically uncomfortable, I can be under mental duress, I can do these things. Right, that's what I'm used to. Well, now, this is just a new level of discomfort.
Speaker 2:So you're going to have to and I'd say to your point the most critical thing you can do is make those connections, because LinkedIn isn't going to get it for you, isn't going to get it for you. Like LinkedIn applications useless. Like don't ever use. Apply right, don't ever do that. Like, use LinkedIn for what it is and it's a great social research tool.
Speaker 2:So, if there's a company you care about or something you're interested in, you know, go to that company, find the people that work there and then reach out to those guys and people are very receptive shockingly receptive to that They'll. They'll meet you for a zoom, though. If you're in town with them, they'll meet you for a cup of coffee. And that's what you need to do is just start talking to people, because then you'll learn about the job, you'll learn about the culture and whether or not you really want to go there, because that's critical. If it's not a good culture fit, you're just going to be unhappy and it's not going to work out. When you think about, you know, developing that human terrain model, building a network, it's the things that we do, inherently military, but then adapting those to the civilian side, and it's and it's critical. I mean that's going to be the key to get to finding what you like, and not just finding a job, but finding something you really enjoy doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I have to apologize, because we're going to be jumping back and forth from live experience to what the program offers and now just ping-ponging it back. Uh, operation healing force is a little different. What do you, what does you would you, what would you say are some of the core things that you try to provide for the community as far as assets and resources?
Speaker 2:I'll tell you the two big things that I was impressed by with ohf. One is a participant. Now on the program side is we cover the whole family, right, it's not just about service members. There's so many non-profits out there that are aimed at the Joe. You're like, yes, but Joe comes with a, with a, with a train, joe's got Joe's got people that are with him. So, let's, let's talk to the whole people.
Speaker 2:And, uh, ohcf smartly designed their program for that from the get-go. So in their mandate, in our charter, that's what we care about forces and families. And so that comprehensive core of what makes our guys the best guys possible is that family. So we are able to help family members out. So we do it to your point deliberately through these couples therapeutic couples, retreats, right, so we bring couples, but then also caregivers, away from the headaches, the heartaches, the hassles, everything that's slowing you down and keeping you from being the best couple possible. And we'll take you away for five days and let you remember oh yeah, that's why we fell in love. I remember that, that's why we were a great couple. Oh yeah, I got you now. So I remember.
Speaker 2:But then at the same time, we also have immediate needs. So for people who have financial requirements that the DOV can't meet, inside of 24 hours we can find the resolution. Can find the resolution. It's either us or somebody we know. So it's travel costs, it's medical devices costs, it's unfortunately sometimes funeral expenses. We are able to cover things that DOD can't, and so annually we do about a million dollars and probably on the order of almost 2000 people we help every year to get through just unexpected crises.
Speaker 1:That is awesome. That is some insane reach and you guys are represented all across the spectrum of soft correct.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's the other benefit. And to your point about soft veterans in the team here we've got 12 people on the ground here in Tampa and 10 of us are all from the joint soft community.
Speaker 1:So we've got every branch represented.
Speaker 2:I'm sure at some point we'll have a Space Force guy, but we don't have one of those yet.
Speaker 1:Soon to come.
Speaker 2:We got everybody else here on the ground and so it's. You know, we all, like you said, we've all been through it. We understand implicitly what the people are dealing with and we're just here to help out. So, yeah, it's definitely every community. And that's another discriminator I'm glad you brought it up was we're not constrained to any service, so we're joint, we help people jointly and we care about everybody just within. All you gotta be is within that SoCal umbrella.
Speaker 1:So yeah, which is it's huge. Um. One thing that I didn't realize until on the backside of my recovery and my journey is I was so hesitant to Google to look for resources, to look for help, to look for any anybody that could help me through what I was going. And there's a lot of shame and guilt. They're like, oh God, I'm going to reach out, I'm going to ask for help, but these programs are out there and they're for us to take advantage of and be able to utilize.
Speaker 1:So, if you're sitting at home, if you're listening to this and you're struggling with something, a, there's no shame, there's no guilt. We are human, we're we're meant to break. Uh, the soft imperative is humans are more important to hardware, and that's the truth, and that especially applies to you. If you're hurting, if you're going through something, you have to be willing to reach out and ask for help. Um, and to go right back to to your lived experience. When you were going through that and you get that, that first email, what were some of the things that were going through your mind. Like I do, I really deserve this.
Speaker 2:Precisely right, man, and that's the thing we hear most often with our, with our guys that go through the program Um, cause, that's what we've been trained to do, right, we've been trained to suck it up and drive on, and that's what we do, and and and. There's just a limit and we know the limitiologically. There's a cost to sustain stress over time. We know that there's a cost to TBIs, there's a cost to low level blast exposures and we know this. This bill does not go down. It continues to accrue and at some point it will reach a tipping point. You have to do something about it. So our goal is to get left of that crisis right, help you before that becomes an issue, and this is, thankfully. My last job in SOCOM was the director of the preservation of the forces and family program?
Speaker 2:Oh, no way, that was core to our mission, set Right and it was. And what we had to attack routinely is what you're talking about this, this help seeking stigma, that, oh man, if I raise my hand then I'm gonna get singled out. You know people are going to think less of me. They're gonna. You know I'm going to come off, the team I won't be able to deploy and it's like you know. No, that's not the point. The point is, you know, we know we ask a lot. That's what special operations is all about. I'm going to ask the most of you that I can get and because of that I need you to be at your peak and to get you there. Sometimes you need a little bit of a tune up, right, emotional, whatever you need to get help. Um, the greatness of SOCOM is we have, you know, programs like POTIF for active duty guys, but then there's also this excellent constellation of nonprofits that just want to just help special operations people, because they get it Like we've been asked to do a lot and we keep getting asked to do a lot. You know the war on terror ends and our deployment cycle doesn't quit. It stays the same because now we're just going new places and doing new things. So that's the challenge we face is how do you balance the operational requirements to the future requirements on our people? Because we want you to come in healthy, we want to build you up to your peak performance. Then we want to sustain you at that level of peak performance and to keep you there.
Speaker 2:You've got to recognize when there's just something going wrong. It's just like your car man. I may have the most highest performing sweet sports car on the planet, but if something's wrong and they don't change the oil or something goes awry, all I do is take it in for a quick fix and that car is back to being perfect. Otherwise, if I don't, well, now that oil system starts to corrupt the engine and it starts to corrupt the transmission and now it's just the bill gets higher and higher. So now it takes longer and longer to get that car back on the road.
Speaker 2:So I think for our guys it's yes, it's being humble and honest with yourself and going yeah, you know what, I know I am not, I am not where I need to be. Right, I can, I can fake it till I make it to a certain point. But in the operational environments we find ourselves in. We can't have that Delta of uncertainty. We've got to be able to execute it the best we can. And so take a step back and go. You know what? Let me get some quick help right quick, and let me take a week or two, let me see some, some specialists, and everything will be better.
Speaker 2:And uh, and it's, it's amazing to see and that's kind of one of the one of the things we see uniformly with the OHF programs we have a lot of qualitative feedback from all of our participants and they will talk about that very thing. It's like yeah, you know, I was, I was uncertain about getting help because, you know, I didn't know how this was going to play out. I'm going to meet, you know, three other couples in some new place and I don't know anybody. This is kind of strange. And yet, within minutes of arriving, you go, man, y'all are just like me and the goodness is I can actually run my mouth here and it's not going to go back to my team or my unit or my boss, and so I can actually share my challenges and talk about things.
Speaker 2:And it gives you the opportunity, the freedom to speak on your issues without being judged about it, without being penalized for it, and so it helps to really attack some of that stigma, but it does, to your point. Take that first step. I have to recognize I need some help and then, if you do that, I swear to God you'll have somebody. You'll have so many people coming out of the woodwork to help you. You're going to be like, well, okay, wait, that's enough help, thanks.
Speaker 1:No, you're a hundred percent right on that it's. You have to have the vulnerability and understanding the vulnerability is a strength, and then have the understanding that you have to be an active and willing participant in your recovery. You don't have to think of it as the end of your career, and for many of our guys that are struggling with things, it's not the end. It doesn't have to be the end. You can overcome these things. You can learn how to deal with things and truly start thriving again.
Speaker 1:We have this idea that's been perpetuated by our culture and a lot of treatment centers and different individuals where you've been diagnosed and now they want you to identify as that thing. That's it. You are never going to go back to being normal, and that couldn't be further from the truth. There's so many things that have already made you a 1% of the 1% of the population. Lean on that, be able to look and say I'm not like normal people. I've been through hard things and I can continue to go through hard things. I just need the tools and understanding from the concepts of how to get better.
Speaker 1:And when guys finally realize that, it's like oh okay, like I don't have to be scared of a diagnosis, because the greatest thing, one of the biggest things that I hear all the time is like I don't want to be diagnosed with PTSD. It greatest thing, one of the biggest things that I hear all the time, is like I don't want to be diagnosed with PTSD. It's like, well, if you don't get help, you'll never know if you even have it. You never know if it's just like oh no, you're dealing with normal, everyday anxiety. This can be treated. You might not even need medication. You might just need some coping skills, some exercises, and then you're free to move on back to your career. And then that's one of the biggest stigmas that we have to kill is the idea that your career ends if you get help Right.
Speaker 2:No, you're absolutely right and I think the goodness is there and I'm happy to report, like the current SOCOM commander, general Fenton, this is very much at the top of his list. He makes no bones about it. The number one priority for the command is people, and he's got it up there because of the first stop truth and from the day he took the chair, that's what we've been working on and it's and it's to your point, it's trying to make sure that people understand. You know, there is no like. This isn't a career stopper, this is a career enhancer, cause, I know's reinforcing. I know that now I'm full faith and confidence in you and there's no, no risks, no concerns, no question marks, um, but yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It is challenging because, you're right, there is a lot of, you know, public dialogue, public debate, public opinions about no-transcript. The goal is to give us techniques right, because we didn't, you know, we didn't grow up. I didn't come up out of the womb and like, oh, I'm really good at land now. No, I actually learned those skills. I had to get taught. This is a compass, this is a map, this is a train map and this is how I do that. So, to your point. That's what you need is realize and the tools to do that can be taught and can be learned and then can be applied. And then you're like cool, I got it. I'm just fine. I'm the same guy I was before, I've just got a deeper tool set. Now I'm drawing some new things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's important to understand that this isn't just an issue that's affecting our younger guys. This is something that's affecting everybody across the force. Anybody can be susceptible to this, and it can be as simple as dealing with burnout, dealing with actual physical injuries that you just never get help for, and then finally they take their toll on you. And guys are just now starting to read into the operator syndrome study and the book and a lot of people are maybe hesitant to read it because they don't want to see the truth. And then, from your experience, what are some things that you would share to the younger self that is hitting that midpoint in their career?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's a fantastic point. And this is something General Fenton asked me too, right, as I was transitioning. He's like take notes, I want to hear about this, I want to hear how it goes. And I told him like, uh, the wonderfulness about SOCOM is we've got great resources nearby. Va program here is top notch. James Haley is one of the best in the country. It's a center of excellence for TBI and PTSD. Uh, so it's really a great facility. And uh, that's the prep facility right. It is exactly right. Yeah, the prep program Right.
Speaker 2:So I told him I was like you know, the only problem with that is it's like we shouldn't wait till year 18 and 19. Like, that needs to be a year eight, a year 12, a year 18, kind of thing. I was like if we do it at scheduled intervals, we could probably bring dudes in there for seven to 10 days instead of six to eight weeks, and then you just get their stuff done, you know, all in route, versus waiting till the very end. And it's the same analogy as the car I was telling you about. Right, If I wait, I drove the car with low oil pressure and a bad radiator and crappy transmission fluid and shitty brakes. Well, guess what? That repair bill at the end is going to not just be higher but take longer, and that's kind of what we're facing.
Speaker 2:And so I told him. I was like you know, sir, if you're going to change stuff, we need to really look at doing some more of these scheduled intervals with our guys at a much earlier phase, so we can one just baseline understand where are you at? So when I see you in four or five years I can take another measurement and I can compare Are you on par, Are you cool, Are you getting better or have you declined in some way? And then fix that and bring you back to at least baseline Right. So that's the, that would be the goal. And to your point, I think, for me personally, right. Especially as a leader, the last thing you ever want to do is take a knee right and it's one of those things do as I say do as I say, not as I do.
Speaker 2:Right, I would tell my guys all the time. I'm like first rule is you have to take care of you. Right, because you can't be a leader if you can't marshal your own strengths, your own focuses, your own ability to lead people, because you're suffering. Right, so I would tell my guys that, but I was not the best of taking my own advice and so, consequently, you know, fast forward to the end of prep, 26 years in the army, I finally go to this prep program and you know, I get enrolled in the PTSD program and I'm like all right.
Speaker 2:So, and I get paired up with my psych and I'm like, hey, don in the PTSD program. And I'm like all right. So, and I get paired up with my psych and I'm like, hey, don't take this the wrong way. I was like, but you're probably going to be wildly successful with me because I've never done anything, cause this is like her first real case. He'd just come out of school, so she was just brand new in this, in the field. I was like don't use me as a benchmark. I was like, cause I had done nothing at all. No, no, no therapy, no treatment, nothing. I was like so anything we do is probably going to be massively successful. And it was.
Speaker 2:And I told her this I shared with, I mean, the, the, the, the treatment programs for things like PTSD are so now standardized and so easy to follow and so easy to do that if you put the work into your point, if you invest yourself into that, you're going to get some payback in a good way, like in a really good way. And it's just, and you're doing these drills and you're like God, this is this seems really simple, like seriously, like I just got to reframe it when thinking about this that's, I don't know, that's kind of, and then, sure as shit, I felt better. I was like whoa, I mean, I felt a lot better. So from day one to the finish of treatment, I mean I think I could judge the difference and people around me could judge the difference. So I was like all right, I was like I'm biased, I got me, but the rest of you telling me this tells me that, yeah, it actually is helpful.
Speaker 1:And I want to ask you, and if you're willing to share, what were some of the things towards the end of your career that maybe started popping up, that you finally started getting more awareness around Like? For me, it was a complete breakdown, and I never dealt with anything like anxiety or depression. I never understood what was really going on. I never really understood why I was having these moments of like oh fuck, I feel like my heart's beating out of my frigging chest. What were some of the things that were unique to your experience towards the end?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's a. That's a great question, man. And it's funny Cause, like you know, I spent some time as a pilot before I crossed back over to special operations and in the in the aviation community there's a lot of conversations about acute and chronic stress. Right, because they recognize it's a tough job. Right, you're doing high risk shit all the time, so sometimes that kind of accrues. So you need to pay attention. Because acute stress is good, because it keeps you sharp, it focuses your attention and then you come out of it. Right. But a chronic stress is not so good because the chronic stress continues to add up and get worse and you have start to have these little trickle out effects, whether it be your mood, your memory, your physical conditions and things like that. So, yeah, so I had, I had just gone to SOCOM it's going to be the end of my career tour. I was kind of chilling.
Speaker 2:I took I took a job in the chief of staff's office, which is super easy super easy low stress like bankers, hours right, we weren't doing hardly anything, and so I think that was one of the factors that started to add into my, into my, into my load, into the things that I was carrying in my rucksack, and cause it was a lot of hard work. A lot of like just near every day was a fire drill kind of figure out where's the fire, how do I put it out, who's involved, and, and every day was like that. It was just a series of groundhog days and uh, and it was amazing and it's great to be part of that. You know that small circle of conversations, decision makers and and action within socom. But it's also hard on the people because it is like every single day you're doing the same things and then, uh, at the same time, at the same time, I got hit by a car and so I was riding my bike to I know right hilarious.
Speaker 2:I you should, and we'll talk about stress, no issues at all.
Speaker 2:But I got hit by a car, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna add to that. So, like you got the whole mental element of the job, yeah, and then coupled with a physical piece of, yeah, I just got mashed by a car and so, uh, so that was, you know, to your, you get injured, right. We don't deal well being injured, right, I, tragically, am not a good, um, patient, hate being injured, uh, and so that was just kind of contributing. So that was just yet another ruck that got chunked in the rucksack and so so, when I was recovering, oh, and even better, and that was during the change of command which I was running, so I got hit. Let's say I got hit. Let's see, six weeks before the change of command, I got hit and so I'm doing the change of command, I'm the lead guy for that thing. I got hit by a car. So I'm back at work, like two weeks later after I got hit, trying to resolve all the crises, get the change of command done and all that, and so, yeah, I think it was just too much. And so, yeah, I think it was just too much. Right, at the end of that, I'm hurting hard.
Speaker 2:And it just started to show up in to your point, like, how did. I see it Really, it was more about my attitude. I started just to get really, you know, really negative, really irritable. I was just I would go from zero to pissed off and like less than a nanosecond. And it was like and that's not me Like, throughout my entire life, my whole career, I've been like Johnny, steady, like you. It takes a lot to push me off that that equilibrium. And uh, and I was not there anymore. I was, I was the smallest, stupidest, littlest things would just send me right off the edge. And uh, and I was like man, this is not right, like I don't, like, this is not how I operate. And then the other key element was, um, silver lining. I've always been a silver lining guy. Right, you can be in the deepest suck that you can imagine and go. Well, it could be worse. You know, like there's always something worse. Uh, you know, you could always find some way to go. Yes, this was really really bad, but there is a lower and it's okay. We can kind of look up, not down, while I was doing was looking down, right, everything was was pessimistic, it was all negativeistic, it was all negative it all. I mean, it's like man, this is not me and uh.
Speaker 2:So prior to going to prep, I had actually talked to, uh, to your point, about operator operator syndrome, how people get resolutions. So I learned about stellate ganglion box, yes, and I was like, oh, that sounds like an interesting thing. I said because you're telling me, everything you're saying is everything I'm seeing. Like this is everything I've got, because my you know my sympathetic and my parasympathetic nervous systems, they were not coordinating. I was like a hundred percent engaged all the time and never getting a break. And so I was like, yeah, that sounds about right. And uh, sure enough, I was able to work it out.
Speaker 2:I went to San Antonio. I got it done by one of the guys who does it there routinely at the center for the intrepid. Yeah, it was night and day. The difference was incredible. Like I, I mean, I could not believe it.
Speaker 2:I came out of that and, um, I remember walking around the river, walk in San Antonio, like four hours after the procedure, and I'm just like, whew, I feel good, like I feel really good, like I'm smiling, I'm happy. I call, I call my girlfriend and she's like what's going on? I'm like what do you mean? Who are you? You sound really happy. I'm like oh one, I'm sad that you had to say that to me, but two, I'm really excited that you noticed because I'm really happy right now. I feel amazing and it was literally that quick, because what it does is it shuts down that you know, that active stress, engaged portion of your nervous system and goes Nope, let's, let's have a chance to take a break. And it was, it was, it was completely refreshing.
Speaker 2:And so for for guys who are interested in it or, um, I'm only hoping the DOD adopts it more widely, because the challenge they have is they don't know the efficacy, they can't judge how long it's going to last, and it's different for everybody. Some guys are once a month, some guys are three months. I was like right around four or five months I began to see, you know, feel some of that old bad behavior creeping back in. So for me it was about 120 days. This is about my efficacy, but then I was able to go into that PTSD thing and so that gave me other tools to fix the problem. So, yes, the block got me through that crisis and then the PTSD treatment stuff got me through later, and so, yeah, it was amazing, a great experience for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I want to jump in on that. I'm a big advocate for it. I was, fortunate enough here at the Trumpet Center at Eglin that's another treatment that was brought to me and a lot of times people think that we can just use magic wands. It's like no, I want to reiterate, like I always do when I talk about this is it's a crucial part of your treatment when you're going through therapy and when you're talking with someone, because I noticed, uh, immediately, once I started getting the style of ganglion blocks, I was able to finally tap into things that I didn't really want to talk about and finally get over some of those hurdles and just be like you know what? I don't want to continue the same life, the same pattern. I and it was the same thing of like I like the way I'm living.
Speaker 1:When I feel like this, when I'm down regulated and it's not about and people think, oh, I just keep getting these shots. No, no, you have to do the work and you work through it, and then you finally get to that point where you're down regulated and it's night and day and I, and, and when people see you after the treatment, especially after you, you're going through treatment, you're going through therapy. What was it like to come back to work and have people be like whoa, whoa. This isn't Mike.
Speaker 2:It absolutely was. Yeah, that first instance, like I said on the phone with my girlfriend, she could just tell and it just like I mean minutes within the conversation she was like, wow, you, you sound a little different, like you sound really happy, Like, yes, I know I like. And I noticed that too because, like I said earlier, like comedy has always been my release right, sarcasm is my, is my safety valve, and so I've always used that throughout my career and I wasn't using that anymore. I wasn't able to, I couldn't tap into it. Um, so, yeah, that was definitely a part of it. And then other people you know at work were like you know, they just night and day, like I think you could tell, because usually it was really good, I'd still been really good, I never hurt, like I wasn't toxic, I didn't, yeah, take it out on people. I always internalized all the rage that I was feeling, which isn't great.
Speaker 1:It's part of being at staff.
Speaker 2:That's talking back in here, uh, but uh, so they they didn't. They didn't see that outwardly, but they just said that, you know, to your point, they just noticed that, yeah, it was like you'd seemed to like a lot more at ease, a lot more you know, happy, just a lot more you know, yeah, just a lot more friendly and outgoing. It was like wow, yeah, like that's kind of where I want to be, that's what I think of myself as the ideal Mike, right, that's what I think of is like I want to be outgoing, I want to be approachable, I want people to want to talk to me, not like, oh God, here comes that guy again.
Speaker 2:Quick, look busy. No-transcript, it's not a cure-all. It just gives you that that, that that physiological timeout hey, cease and desist biological actions, right, because that's what it's going to do, that's what your body's wired for, and gives you a chance to re-engage that executive piece of your brain and go okay, let's, let's think about this problem, let's look at what's driving this.
Speaker 1:Let let's look at what's driving this. Let's figure out what the solution is that we picked up along the way, as we were healing, everything kind of go haywire.
Speaker 2:No, you're right, A hundred percent, I think. Uh, I think the one of the words you hit on there that really strikes a chord is that, that identity piece. I see a lot of people that over-invest in their military identity and it's, and I get it. I mean, I understand why you make that decision and why that's, you know, and it isn't. It's a great part of our lives. Right, the decision to serve is one that only a few people make, and the decision to serve to the level that we do in DOD is even fewer. Right, we're talking about that whole 1% of the 1% piece. Right, that's where you are, because you wrote that check to Uncle Sam, said, hey, up to and including the cost of my life, I'm ready to do this thing. And so, living with that, I think it's an important and it's a critical balance to achieve in your life, and I think I was lucky in that regard.
Speaker 2:You know, I love the Army, I love my time in the Army, I love the people I serve with, but I was always reminded of the Army song. Right, the Army will go rolling along, right, and I knew that throughout my whole career, and so, reminding myself of that, I was like, okay, yeah, I get it, I love it, I love what I'm doing, I'm a hundred percent in while I'm here, but I'm also knew that when I left the office I wanted to leave the office and then remember to spend time with my family and do the things that also would be with me forever, so I could have my kids still love me and know who I was by the time I got out of the army, and so. So I think that's the, that's a critical element, that, uh, that I, I just I had learned that early on, um, and it served me well, because I do see other people in the career field and my career field and other career fields, especially officers, are like, yeah, if I don't make one star, that's it, I'm just a failure, I'm like whatever, like I'm just happy that I'm still in the army, right, I mean, you can't hang your hopes on some artificial outcome that you have no control over. So instead, you know, just do the best at wherever you're at, and um, but also remember that it's just a job, right? It's not you, right, you are your person. Things you do reflect on you Absolutely, but that's not you right. Your rank, your position, your career, that's not you, you is the people you surround yourself with, your family, your friends, you know. And then how you are in your heart, right, that's what's most important. And so that was helpful.
Speaker 2:And then, like I said, the tools about. You know, the physiological intervention was great, going through, like the cognitive therapy, you know, through the psych channels, is great. Because you know, I was as skeptical as everybody else, like, yeah, whatever, we're going to burn some incense, like come on, uh, but no, it was, uh, it was really, really factual. But to your point, um, and this is, you know, this is a realization I came to ages ago when I was, when I was a younger person. You know, people with a problem can only enjoy the solution when they acknowledge the problem, right? So if somebody's suffering and you want to help them, yes, you should absolutely let them know I'm here to help you, I'm here to provide you whatever you need, but that person also has to go yeah, I have a problem, I acknowledge this problem and I want to get help. And if you don't do that piece, I don't care what you do. Like, you can, you can slap all the band-aids you want on it, but you are not solving the problem.
Speaker 2:So that's the critical step that people have to be mindful of is be honest. Right, ask the people you love hey, are things cool? Like, am I okay? Like is there something wrong? And don't be afraid to ask that question, because sure You're, you're significant Other might give you a ration of shit, but they're also going to tell you the truth and say yeah, you know, I've noticed you've been a little bit irritable or you've been moody, or you've been depressed or you've been whatever. And you're like yeah, you know, you're right, I do notice that too. And as soon as you cross that corner, then you're on the right path, cause now you're like cool, I acknowledge there's something in my operating environment. I need to address it using these things and therefore we'll get to a solution Right.
Speaker 2:So I think that's the, that's the process you gotta. You gotta acknowledge is just be honest, like take the assessment, assess yourself and recognize. You know, conditions change and it's just for me, it was just a lot of things in a really small span of time, but I just wasn't able to get relief from any of them and so it was all just bam, they're all here all together, all at once, like we're going to have a really crappy party in your head, so it's like that's not cool. I couldn't even get away from my own party, so that's the thing that people got to be mindful of is just be willing to accept that I need to get a tune up. Right, let me go to take my car to the shop, because I wouldn't do that with my car. It makes a funny noise. I'd be like whatever it'll be fine.
Speaker 1:No, it won't. We've got to get more comfortable in the team room, being able to talk amongst teammates and warriors. Some of us don't have family at home. We don't have the wife, we don't have a fiance, but you still have an intimate group of individuals that you work with day and night and you put yourself, or are willing to put yourself, in danger and put your life on the line for each other. So if you see your friends struggling, if you see your friends changing in their mood and things affect them or they're drinking more, or you see them do and engage in risky behavior, that's not in the realm of your job. Okay, they're engaging in those, you know. Maybe they're drinking and driving, maybe they're doing things that are not supposed to be willing to say yo stop. What is going on at home? What is going on in your private life? Why do you always have to go out to drink to feel good Like what's going on?
Speaker 1:We talk about being war fighters and being willing to take the fight to the enemy. Well, sometimes the enemy comes in the form of mental health health issues. Sometimes the enemy comes in the form of lingering health issues that they're not going because I've been there. I didn't want to go to the doctors because I didn't want to come off a team and before that, as a young kid on a free fall team, I didn't want to go see a doctor because I don't want to come off free fall status. But guess what, if you identify that there's something wrong or you just bring your friends in close and be like, hey man, like no judge, no judgment.
Speaker 1:If you've got to go to P3, if you've got to go to Thor 3 and get something for that shoulder, get something for that knee, bro, take the time, take, take no one's going to frigging kick you off the team to get better. That way you can come back and you can participate. And those are the individuals that we're losing. We're losing great individuals because we're not taking the time to take a knee. So I'm telling you right now, and Mike's telling you as well you deserve it.
Speaker 1:Take that knee, get better, especially if you're a team sergeant too, or if you're that senior NCO in that organization. Make time to heal, make time to recover so you can come back and take care of the organization and be that shining example of what it means to be better. But hey, look, guys, I'm still here, I'm still leading from the front. Now I'm better and I'm not carrying all this baggage. And before I let you go, mike, I know you got, I got another meeting to jump to. What are some of the ways that we can get in touch with Operation Healing Forces? And we want to take advantage of these great programs.
Speaker 2:So, absolutely, I tell you to certainly go to the website, right, super simple, operation, healing forcesorg, and then, and there's, that's, that's the starting point.
Speaker 2:And for guys who are in, or veterans of the community, you know, put yourself on our list, man, there's a list up there that'll tell you for retreats and just add your name and what our guys do is the, the retreat team will start vetting and checking and and stacking and racking the guys, and we'll do it by. We'll start vetting and checking and stacking and racking the guys, and we'll do it by tiers of priority, because we want to make sure, to your point, that those people that we know that are facing real challenges, that have perhaps been recently injured or having something going on or really like chain of command referrals, we get those guys in first Because we've identified the challenge and we're starting to work that issue, and then we just start working our way through the list. So I would say, be patient because, like I said, I think I was on I I got added to the list because I got a medical device through immediate needs.
Speaker 2:I got one of those cats who, uh, blood flow restriction devices after my surgery to try to, you know, fix all my issues, which are great. It's a great device, um, and that's. I think that's how I think I got added to the pool of people and then. So I got randomly emailed like a year later, and so so don't be surprised if they don't reach out to you immediately, um, but at the same time, if you find yourself in in desire, in dire need, the immediate needs program is also on there as well. So if you have something you need funding for, you know somebody who has an issue, then um, um, all of our people's information is on there, that's, we call it soar, special operations, additional resources. They handle that program, so their points of contact are all in there as well. Um, it's actually a pretty good, it's very succinct website, very easy to navigate, um, so that's probably the best. And then, of course, for me, you know, if you don't, you can't reach anybody else, super simple mikestone at ophforg, right, operation healing forcesorg, right, operationhealingforcesorg. So, yeah, email me and I'll get you. I'll get you whatever you need for the people that you need to talk to. And if we don't, like I said, we work in concert with other nonprofits that are all around SOCOM. So if it's something that we can't do, we know who can. And then also with Care Coalition, that was the last plug I was going to make for the cats who are in right now and the guys who are even, uh, have gotten out, that still have contact to the warrior care team or you're looking for a therapy or you need a device, start there, because they know then, through the Care Coalition, to reach out to these nonprofits and they'll know who to talk to. So they're your best kind of Rosetta Stone for direction and guidance on how do I find this? Because you said it, man, there is, there's a ton of nonprofit benevolence just out there wanting to do good stuff for our great operators, and you just got to tap into it. There, wanting to do good stuff for our great operators, and you just got to tap into it. So, happy to happy to be part of what operation healing forces does. And, um, just to focus on, what I care about is couples, making sure people remember oh yeah, this is why we are a couple. This is what makes my base to turn me into the best person I can be, apart from my family. And then the immediate needs program is just amazing. So so, 24 to 48 hours, we're sending money to people that, uh, in fact, I'll tell you an anecdote from soft week. So soft week was last week, right, crazy convention, half convention, half reunion. It's a, it's a mix.
Speaker 2:Um, we had one of our immediate needs guys who had just been assisted.
Speaker 2:His wife was diagnosed with cancer.
Speaker 2:They were on the coast of North Carolina, they needed to get to Raleigh for the treatment, to see the expert, the specialist that they had to have, and of course, you know that's a huge burden right away.
Speaker 2:It was like I got to travel, I got to lodging, I got to do all this stuff and we were able to help this guy out and he was emotionally moved. You could tell, right, because you want to pull an operator's heartstrings, talk about his family, right, talk about his kids, talk about us sitting together, yes, we're going to respond. And so he was, you know, emotionally, just deeply grateful and that's what motivates us, right, that's for us it's like, geez, we're done today. We're not talking to anybody else, cause, like, we cannot top that, like that is the best. We, we had a need, we felt the need and this guy was just well off because of it, and that's that's why we do what we do. I mean, our tagline is we create bonds that cure, and that's what we're interested in long-term positive benefit for our special operation community yeah, my, okay, that's the best place to end it.
Speaker 1:Man, thank you so much for being here and for doing what you do. Um, again, operation healing forces. If you're still active duty, if you're out and you're part of the community, part of the family, you're not on your own. Reach out today. You deserve it. If you're going through a crisis, if you're going through something that is a five alarm fire, reach out for help. We can't help you, we can't put you in resources unless you reach out.
Speaker 1:If you're too scared, too vulnerable and you just don't want to do it yourself, reach out to Security Hot Podcast psychhotpodcast psychhubpodcast at gmailcom. We'll be on the phone and we will do it with you. In fact, we've done it over Zoom. It's that simple, because you're not alone. Like we always say, we get through this together. Mike, thank you so much for being here, thank you for being a testament of what it means to be fully thriving and not just surviving, and to all of you guys listening out there, thank you so much for following and thank you so much for tuning in, and we'll see you all next time. Until then, take care. Thanks, denny. Take care, brother. If you like what we're doing and you're enjoying the show, don't forget to share us. Like us, subscribe and head on over to our Patreon, where you can be part of our community and get access to all of our episodes as soon as they drop. And remember we get through this together. Take care you, thank you.
