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The only Mental Health podcast that shares honest and authentic accounts of living with mental health issues, that's also hosted by individuals fighting the same fight you are!Providing information and resources for help with a heavy dose of humor and entertainment. Helping you find hope and the strength to fight on.
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Episode 188: Patrick Zeigler author of "Both ends of the barrel."
Episode 188: Patrick Zeigler, author of “Both ends of the barrel.”
Surviving a terrorist attack at Fort Hood on November 5, 2009, changed Patrick Ziegler’s life, but it didn't break him. Join us as we explore his incredible story of resilience and survival. Hear firsthand about the harrowing day that left lasting scars and the journey that followed. Patrick opens up about the powerful bonds of camaraderie he experienced on a recent healing trip to South Florida, touching on the evolving nature of mental health support for veterans.
What happens when the act of writing becomes a lifeline? Discover the transformative journey of an author who spent five years battling physical and mental hardships to pen a deeply personal book. Learn how storytelling served as a coping mechanism for trauma, leading to unexpected financial support and a profound experience of peace and forgiveness during a visit to Israel. This chapter sheds light on the spiritual healing found through human connections and the significant impact of such encounters on the path toward forgiveness and understanding.
Mental health recovery is a winding path, often marked by profound lessons and unexpected friendships. Hear about the narrator's multiple stays in psych wards, the invaluable lessons learned through group therapy, and the poignant tattoos memorializing 26 lives. The episode underscores the healing power of humor and camaraderie, especially at Bethesda Walter Reed Medical Center, where veterans use humor to cope with their injuries. From generational differences in handling adversity to the potential of new treatments like psilocybin and neural implants, this episode is a heartfelt exploration of resilience, purpose, and the enduring bonds formed among those who serve.
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Both Ends of the Barrel: From the Troop Surge to Fort Hood A Dozen Years in the Global War
Produced by Security Halt Media
security hot podcast let's go with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best with guns, with knives, with his bare hands, a man who's been trained to ignore, ignore weather, to live off. The land. Job was disposed of enemy personnel to kill period and they're covered in caramel form of Snickers I had melted real and authentic yeah, but I don't want to look like a jackass with a build birds nest here, so that's all right yeah, um, I'm gonna go with the one there you go.
Speaker 1:Look cool and hip like the kids these days. Patrick ziegler, welcome to scared out podcast. It's a pleasure to have you on, man um yeah, it's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate it absolutely.
Speaker 1:We have to be able to bring to the audience stories of resilience and perseverance, and I mean, who better to talk to us about that than somebody that survived the absolute worst? Um so, patrick, thank you for being here. Please let's dive into your story. Man, um november 5th 2009, uh, arguably one of the most challenging days that you've ever experienced, arguably.
Speaker 2:No, that was, that was uh, and it's election day this year, so so, thank God, I get to hear that date over and over again.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But um, no, just little tiny triggers like that Don't bother me at all. And um, it's um. Yeah, I went through a couple of titles for the book and there was um. It was rough trying to find something neutral where I didn't offend the half the world, you know. And um, I don't, you know, know, I don't mind if any couple people, but um yeah, it's definitely difficult.
Speaker 1:Right, because you know the incident um you know yeah, everybody it is an islamic terrorist that uh killed, 14 injured 30 others on forehead right. We don't need to say his name, but it I can only imagine uh, so I think it's. Before we get into that, though, tell us about patrick well.
Speaker 2:Thanks again for having me, demi. I appreciate, I appreciate it. It's pretty awesome. We have a mutual friend and I had no idea that you existed before meeting him. So it's funny how that happens in the world and it is a small world after all. Did not mean to do that, but yeah. So I was down in South Florida for the last week. Eight days, nine days, I'm not sure. Probably lost a day, but I got to go through the cycle with the new format that I have for a nonprofit that I love, working with Pretty much second family down in South Florida and honestly I don't like the place that much.
Speaker 2:But uh, I like the people, so I like my company and um, but yeah, that uh nonprofit it's the 22 project and we're in their shirt right now and, uh, they do a lot of imaging. What they're trying to do is collect data so it can be presented to Congress and VA, thereby trying to collect data on hyperbaric oxygen therapy and its effects on healing and the psyche and everything. So what they do is before and after brain scans with the chemical thing added into your bloodstream. So it's pretty amazing, the before and afters. And uh, I'll get a copy of my my scans you, and it's so much better. Yeah, when I'm out in public and maybe I'm hitting on a girl or just flirting a little bit and I'll say, you want to see a picture of my brain, and they freak out Like they're really scared of blood and guts, I'm like, no, it's a scan, but I'm pretty proud of that, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, after 15 years, this year I'm walking around, talking and having a great time. This year is totally. It's the only year I think in my life I've stuck to my New Year's resolution, which was just to take a step back and enjoy being an author and kind of explore the possibilities and opportunities. If I just take a different approach, last year I was pushing it hard all over the country and a book had just come out. So you know, I was just. It was overwhelming really and I feel a lot better now and this last week in South Florida with those guys was just healing and honestly I was thinking about it earlier and it's actual brain chemicals that you know. I just made four or five new friends for life and they're going to be involved hopefully for years to come and we were all just thrown in a hotel room or hotel together and we're all veterans, so we get along fine. It's weird I have more friends that are marines trigger pullers than uh marine veterans and there's no such thing.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, you got to be a little crazy to sign up as a cavalry scout or sniper scout or any of that recon. And um, because, yeah, I called my dad. I remember I called my dad on the phone and asked him you know, there's only uh, because I wanted to go to war quick before it was over. And uh, there was only three combat arms branches open, or mos's. I said, and I said, should I be a field artillery tanker or a scout? He said, oh, I don't know if you should be a scout, you might get caught up there or not. And he was right. I mean, I, I ignored him, of course, but um, but, but now the nowadays, there's no such thing as a scout. You don't need a scout. You've got uav, you've got every kind of airframe that can spy on the battleground. And, um, it's a lot better to have unmanned, you know, you don't have to risk those lives. And oh no, another $30 billion down the drain. Oh well, you know.
Speaker 1:And yeah, scouts are getting phased out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really too bad, but the history is it's really cool. And that's why I remember my first day at fort hood I I saw a guy I knew from fort knox, from basic osa and um, and we were both just smoking cigarettes and waiting and we were both talking about we wanted to go to the cab and this staff, or no, it was a sergeant first class, so you know he was legit and he's like what are you all waiting for Reception? You're going to the cab? Yeah, and then throughout my career, I always wished that I had been attached to an infantry unit, but it's all good because I'm alive and at the beach.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's really what it's. Oh, I'm sorry, Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tell us. Um, having to revisit an event that's so shocking and filled with tragedy and loss is hard for anybody. Yeah, but Patrick, you're more than just unique. You are the survivor of something that few people ever thrive through. This procedure, going through I mean you you were shot in the head and to be alive is one thing. To be walking, to be talking, to be able to connect right now in this, in this platform, that says a lot about resilience and the, the capability of healing. But I want to know how was that journey?
Speaker 1:because I know for a fact it was not without its perils and without its challenges.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, I really embarrassed the shit out of myself, to be honest, just with my Irish genes and mostly drinking, but that's because I like to party, and partying to me is going out with friends and getting drunk and, uh, growing up I was reading hemingway and that and the way you refer to it, it's just like normal. We're gonna go get tight, yeah and um, in the roaring 20s, of course, and I'm in the horrible 20th first century. I did it just blows my mind and I always was happy that I got to see the end of the 20th first century. I did it just blows my mind and I always was happy that I got to see the end of the 20th century and the new you know. But the technology is just, it's incredible and it's hilarious because we're gonna all die from ai and we're like oh, this stuff is so great meanwhile, sarah connor, yeah, yeah
Speaker 2:it's life imitating art and it's pretty sad, but then again it's great. So I could do stuff like this and share my friend's stories. And my story was really, you know, it's an unselfish act and I really think it took years off my life act and I really think it took years off my life. So I'm finding ways to heal from the writing process, to enjoy being an author. Because while I was writing thing over the course of five years, literally stabbing myself in the heart and mind Every day, I would struggle to get these stories on silicone and I did it mostly, mostly myself. Only my right hand works.
Speaker 2:So I, the tendonitis in my right arm is pretty incredible physical and I just reminded me. You know that I I'm lucky I get to be here and, uh, go through that and uh, I did it for you know the world. It was a contribution type of thing and it needed to be done. If I didn't do it, nobody would have ever known these stories. So that's why I did it and it kept me going. Of course the ocean did and I reached pretty deep in my book of desperational remedies. I got pretty dark for a while, but after you know, now that it's done, it's totally a different story and I'm I'm really glad I did it and, um, just try to recover as much as possible and, uh, enjoy. I mean right now I'm looking at the ocean. It's incredible colors.
Speaker 1:At any point? Were you trying to stay plugged in with a therapist and at least talk through as revisiting some of the darker chapters?
Speaker 2:No, actually, because I had already been in so many hospitals that I, honestly, I already knew what they were going to say and what the routes of treatment were. So, yeah, and I, and basically one of them was CPT, cognitive, whatever therapy and you just write out everything that's in your head yeah usually pen and paper.
Speaker 2:So and, uh, I'd already tried that on a smaller scale, and then I just decided to dive in. And so, uh, one of my friends handed me $4,500 and said go write a book or publish your book. And I said, okay, that was pretty awesome. Yeah, I'm sure we had a couple that night. But, um, but I ended up giving him my boat in exchange. It was a 16 footer so and he ended up giving it to a friend in exchange for something else, so it was pretty cool. And, yeah, well, it was broke, so we just left it on the trailer and nobody was using it, we just passed it around. But, yeah, that's florida, and and I can't wait to get another boat, but that's, you know, it's in the bag of pipe dreams, so we'll see about that.
Speaker 1:But um, the book's out there, so get some. Uh, let's try to get some sales generating yeah that'd be a pretty great.
Speaker 2:I'm actually hoping that, um, when, uh, actually hoping that when this guy whose name we won't speak dies, that it kind of boosts everything about the book, just from the flip side, you know, and the results of what he did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's hard to look at our trauma, look at what we experienced, especially on your case, because it did take things from you. It did physically and mentally take so much from you, getting to a point where and everybody that was there. Yeah, it's hard. I just talked about it. The act of forgiveness, it's a closure thing, but everybody has to find it on their own way in their own time. You cannot rush it. Yeah, it definitely is easier when the person's dead yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 2:It's funny you say that because, uh, it's in the book and there's many stories about you. Know how I felt about all of that during the last 15 years, but, um, uh, the real uh measure of peace and forgiveness I finally found is, uh, when I was in Israel and it was for the 10th anniversary of the shooting, which is what I call it. I don't call it the attack or the incident or anything, it's the shooting and um, and so I had been hoping for it and I thought it would be the River Jordan, but then, just by coincidence, the way the days fell, we were on top of Masada for the 10th anniversary, all damn day in the heat, wandering around that thing, and so, basically, I was delusional from sweating and about to die thinking about what it was like with these uh jews that were on top of the mountain, trapped, couldn't get down, and so they decided, hey, we're going to heaven if he lets us. And um, pretty incredible, as we came down from masada and uh went the Dead Sea and there was a bath and beauty salon there, whatever. It was October and I decided I'm going to buy a couple of Christmas presents from the Dead Sea and I walked in and of course it was Palestinians running it and they welcomed me in, you know, and I'm figuring like, oh, they're buttering me up to buy a bunch of their stuff, of course.
Speaker 2:But then the wife leads me into the back and they saw how tired I was. She'd already put a chair out there was already a chair there and so she sat me down. And then they catered to me and said can we get you something to drink? I had already been chugging water, so I said Coca-Cola, just on the off chance. They had one, and they did. And I sat there the whole time.
Speaker 2:And this was during the time that the other guys that I was with had decided to go jump in the Dead Sea and float around. And it's just because of the difficulty of changing clothes with one hand and everything. I didn't want to go through that process in the locker room and so I ended up staying at the resort thing and it was really great because I realized and I had already known there were good Muslims for a long time, especially in Iraq, which is to me. I've been studying it lately and it actually is incredible where we were, the way that civilization began and the bible references pretty incredible it feels like maybe god was giving you that chance encounter to help heal a wound, did you?
Speaker 1:you feel that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did, and I'd already, um, unofficially forgiven a son a long time before because I knew that weight would. It was still with me, the uh, the weight of the amount of negativity that came from getting shot in the head. You know, I mean the first thing I did was want to fight him. Uh, the whole way to the hospital I was trying to get out of the ambulance to go fight this guy yeah, it's in the book. I was like where is he?
Speaker 1:Where is he?
Speaker 2:And so and that negativity just stuck with me for so damn long, you know, and it led to. It led to the drinking and then the divorce and everything else. So, oh, I just lost you. But you know, I still struggle with it because of everyday things like having to put my clothes on. You know, I'll get ticked off at the world, basically. And then I realize, take a step back and look at the ocean and I'm like, yeah, it's not the world, it's you. Take a step back and look at the ocean and I'm like, yeah, it's not the world, it's you. So, yeah and uh and uh, down south with adam we were able to have a couple of good conversations like this and it's just healing.
Speaker 2:I made like four or five new friends on that trip and, uh, one of the best times I've had in south florida. Because, no offense to anybody, but I don't really like it down there too much. I like the redneck countrywood swamp environment up here in Daytona area. Yeah, it's a little more laid back and just kind of realistic. They get a little jaded down there, I think, and that's okay, it's just the way it is. It's always been in South Florida and anyways, I'll get old and sad one day too. I just don't get how they're still upset. They're upset, yeah. They worked their whole damn lives and they were really grumpy because of it, and I would be too if I lived in the city, but it's all good. I love the water down there and, uh, the people that I know and I associate with are pretty damn awesome, so it's a great thing, yeah and what made you make the move down to florida?
Speaker 2:oh, I'm from florida and um, yeah, jack.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jacksonville. My parents were both Navy and Jacksonville and so I grew up on a Navy basis. That's what made it easier for me to go in. But, yeah, when I was a little kid, I'd get in trouble and my dad worked at the Recruit Training Center in Orlando, lake Baldwin that doesn't exist anymore and I'd have to go in for the weekend and I was a 12 year old kicking the shit out of the PT and these guys into the ground. He's like, if my 12 year old can do it, you can do it. It was great fun for me as a kid.
Speaker 2:But, um, yeah, my dad was a SAR swimmer up north in North Florida and ended up at the pool at RTC Orlando and so anybody had signed up for buds was coming through that pool and I got to be hanging out at the pool with SEAL Team 2. It was like you know, that's my childhood and I was like hell, yeah, I'm going. And on 9-11, I was the only one of my friends that knew I was going to have to join and I was the only one who did. So it was yeah, and I mean it's all in there.
Speaker 2:I wrote the book so I didn't have to spend the rest of my life telling orally the stories that are in the book. But it's fun and it's all. Now that I'm done, I really feel like I accomplished one of the reasons I'm still here and the reason he preserved me, and my son was born three years after I was shot in the head, so that's definitely the big reason. And then, um and uh, he's 11 now, so he's loving life, yeah and um, yeah, 15 years later, it's getting a lot easier to deal with everything that happened. But time heals it really does, but so does the Atlantic, the Bermuda Triangle I'm staring out here.
Speaker 1:It just blows my mind.
Speaker 2:Sitting in the hospital, sitting in the sandbox. I never even dreamed of this. So you know I knew it was going to be better than where I was, but not like this. So I am blessed.
Speaker 1:How long was that recovery? I mean how many?
Speaker 2:years, uh long. It's still happening next month, but, um, no, it's just a 11 months, initially in a hospital bed with tubes and me, and then um six years of rehab initially, yeah, initially, and then, uh, you know, like I said, this is now I get to work on the psychological. I wait, I wanted to get everything accomplished because I thought it would slow me down and complicate everything if I tried to do it while I was going through the process of writing. So now it's time, and it's about time. So I want to unload all that to somebody I can confide in. Of course, everybody likes that, but, um, it also is great therapy just for me to talk to veterans like you and adam and people we know that just uh, and joke about it, because if you don't make light of, uh, the horrible shit in life, then you're doomed to yeah, yeah, drag ass through life.
Speaker 1:It's. It's the unique tribe mentality. We know each other's struggles. I mean, you don't have to suffer the same identical trauma, but, yeah, it's suffering that connects us. We know what it's like to be at a hospital for a surgery. We know what it's like to be down and out, and when we need it most it's like to be down and out, and when we need it most it it's the voice of a fellow veteran that can keep us engaged in the fight. Yes, which is something that we we've all struggled with is man, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to wake up and go through this shit. I want to just be normal again. Um, and that's difficult, but when you're plugged into a community, when you're plugged into your tribe, it gets infinitely easier.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:What are some of the things that you do now in staying plugged in in the days, especially on the days where you don't want to reach out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I actually, um, I've been turning to the lord, I've been, uh, getting a lot more spiritual, almost to the point of, uh, you know, I it makes me emotional too so trying to open up that side of my being or whatever you want, however you want to put it and, um, philosophical, philosophical, I guess, buddhist in some ways, not even close to hippie, but very, um, uh, deeper level, uh, just trying to heal, because those scars, you know, they go way down in the guts and the balls.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it hurts so way down in the guts and the balls.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it hurts. So, yeah, we, we tend to neglect that side of us all through our military. I know I did. The spiritual side was the last thing I was focused on. It's always meant it's always the physical that that we want to address, like get me back in the fight, get me back to being physically fit. Yeah, I want to talk about the mental and I damn sure don't want to talk about the spiritual. Yeah, man, that was the. The missing piece in my own journey was the spiritual right getting connected back. And, hey, for me it was the catalyst was my wife. My wife was the one that got us back into church. Yeah, um, what was that? What was? What was the thing that pulled you back into thinking about the spirit? Was it just one day? You were just like shit?
Speaker 2:no, actually, my life well, honest, it's to be honest, alcohol is anonymous. Those meetings that I was going to and that was the go-to was having Jesus Christ as the example of how to move forward with your life. And I think I was in the psych ward three times total, and the first two times had me turn into the lawyer as well. I think I was in psych ward three times total and, um, the first two times had me in turn into the lawyer as well and um, yeah, and then the third time I'm like what in God's name am I doing here? Again, I got to get it together and stay the hell out of the, you know, yeah, so I try to learn my lessons like that. But I also in the psych wards. I was able to learn lessons from other people's mistakes, so that was the best part.
Speaker 2:Group therapy was probably the best part of my recovery, and kind of the same thing with veterans, and there was a couple of them in the hospitals, but um, well, I was staying at the VA. Both times I ended up doing rehab and so that environment, even though it's a crappy place to be in your life, you realize that the other guys that are there same thing and it's sad, but you're not supposed to make friends in there, but actually some of those guys become, become friends, whether you want them to or not, and a lot of them. Yet it's interesting you get to hear the stories on who actually changed their life and who's kind of bumping their head against the wall. But but that's life and I I just enjoy every minute of it because I know how blessed I am to be here, every minute of it, because I know how blessed I am to be here and um, you know we lost. I've got um, I've got the lives of 26 people tattooed on me and um, the souls, I would say, who I was in the presence of their demise and um, maybe not always in Iraq, but you know it's heavy that burden, and so that's why I wanted to pierce the skin and and get that pain out of my system and just kind of memorialize them. Even though this body's a vessel and it'll be gone, so the art will be gone with it. There's still pictures of the art and at least my son and several people I know will know what I was thinking. And you know I want him to be physically part of my presence here on earth with me.
Speaker 2:And it's a shame because in the book. It's a shame because in the book I honestly didn't know anybody at Fort hood the day we got shot, because it was a guard unit and a reserve unit from Wisconsin, I think, which at that time I didn't know anybody from Wisconsin. Uh, now my ex wife remarried to Wisconsinite from the milwaukee area and and I mean the original male clinic is in was is in minnesota, southern minnesota, about an hour from the border with wisconsin, and it's all the same type of people and they're really down-to-earth people, kind of farming, yeah, community type of thing and um, and then there's some city folk mixed in with them and it makes for a really good environment to recover. And I was blessed to be in the top-notch rehab facility that I could be in and then I also tried out their psych work.
Speaker 1:But that's neither here nor there, yeah, the thing I love, patrick, is you maintain that you know we, when studying the brain, you know that certain parts, when they're damaged, you might lose identity, you might lose emotion, you might lose your ability to operate your hand, your arm, yep and emotions, but your humor is still intact. You still have your veteran, the personality. Yeah, you know, it's.
Speaker 2:He couldn't take that from me. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:It's crazy because think of what a what a gift, and you have to look at it through that lens of what a gift that is that you still have that, that it was preserved, and it's probably something that you've been able to lean on as a source of comfort when facing the impossible yeah, you know what it was.
Speaker 2:It was Bethesda Walter Reed Medical Center. I'm walking around because they don't let you walk around unless you're able to, and so I was doing better in 2014 by that time and I got to walk around and I'd hang out down at the wall where the amputees go climbing. And those guys were the funniest because if they don't joke about it, you lose their minds. And that made me think about it. You know the whole thing why I, if I was going to live with the burden for at least a while until I can get to the psychologist's office, then at least I can joke about it and enjoy the time I have outside of that office and all that. And the hospital is my least favorite place or environment in the world. And it's just institutions. It's just like being in jail, except except you got tubes coming out of you. And the most commonly asked question when am I going to be released? When you're better? So it's good motivation, but it's also very disappointing and just yeah, so anyways, the healing continues every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one foot in front of the other, always moving forward.
Speaker 2:That's right. Help your brothers out, pick them off the ground and keep moving forward. I'm about tired of these. You know this new generation. Because they just, I mean, that's my Southern coming out, that's my North Florida. I'm about tired of this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well you.
Speaker 1:you bring up a good point. Resilience is is now becoming a lost art. People meet an object or they meet resistance, and it's met with Bounce off of it. Yeah, people fall apart and they're not able to bounce back. Yeah, they're not able to Shattered yeah.
Speaker 2:Because the puppy dog didn't get a pee break.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:And it's really sad because it's all parenting. You know, it's the 90s generation, trying to grow up and trying to raise kids. Yeah, and that's generation x, and now their kids and grandkids are going to screw everything up for a while and then, um, hopefully we'll have a cyclical cycle of new kids that come in and actually snap out of it. But nobody has a crystal ball, especially not me, so I just push through, do you do?
Speaker 1:any speaking or activism and get out there and share your story.
Speaker 2:It's been a long time, but I'm trying to move into that genre and that field. I did a couple of high school commencements and that was really cool, because kids are always more open to everything. The earlier they learn, the better. Then I did a memorial day or two. Honestly, I can't remember everything I've done, but most of it's online. Thank god you don't have to remember everything anymore. It's in a cloud somewhere.
Speaker 1:yeah, it's in the server yeah, I just feel it's who better to talk to individuals about not giving up and perseverance than, yeah, than.
Speaker 2:I feel like I can share, you know, and help somebody, and why not contribute if I can? Yeah, so, and I know I can, so that's even better. And I'm still mission oriented, you know. It's just a matter of what the mission is and how fast that has to get done. It's just a matter of what the mission is and how fast it has to get done. In my mind I've always been militaristic, I guess is the word, but just kind of focused and organizational, so that helps my personality and my personality and my, um, my psyche. He couldn't take it from me and, uh, I pushed forward with that and that's the. There's so many blessings, man, uh, the people I've been able to meet, the opportunities I've had, and and it's a continual thing- so, it's just every great thing that comes up in my life.
Speaker 2:I just feel like that's another reason why I'm here. So it's a pretty great feeling and I know it's going to be all right either way, because I'm saved.
Speaker 1:You have a purpose, you have a mission. When you have those two things. It makes it infinitely easier to wake up each and every day and attack the day and it's different for everybody.
Speaker 2:You got to find your own purpose. Yeah, that's the hardest part is finding it, and and once you realize that you're kind of wavering in the breeze and lost, then then you can snap out of it and get yourself back on. It's like falling out of formation during road march.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, better get back yeah, all you gotta do is just double time. Get back up there. Now that the book's done. What's next for you? What's giving you that energy to get up out of bed every morning?
Speaker 2:Oh man, it's. The answer to most of my problems is the Atlantic Ocean, but I swear it's just the best mental health juice you can take A little meditation. I'm sitting behind my little fake wooden Buddha and he's meditating on the horizon. Sitting behind my little fake wooden Buddha and he's meditating on the horizon, and I can see the curvature of the earth, Bermuda triangle and a bunch of big ass boats that I'll never own. Yet, yet, there's still time.
Speaker 1:There's still time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the one thing I really want to do that I haven't done and I don't know if I want to do that I haven't done and I don't know if I want to go the private route is a cruise line or just a cruise with a whole hell of a lot of people partying and going to different places on a boat and um, yeah, because I just spent, uh, all day yesterday, about 10 hours, on a amtrak and um, that's what I to do, because the biggest obstacle is I can't. Biggest problem I have is I can't drive. And, um, it's because of my vision. That piece of metal went through my optic nerve. Oh and um, so I can be looking straight ahead, dead ahead 12 o'clock and I can't see 11 o'clock.
Speaker 2:So it's just because of my brain, not my actual vision itself. Yeah, it's the way it process occipital lobe. Yeah, yeah, I know all the specific parts of the brain now and I know about half of the chemicals, because there's about 20,000 or something, and it's pretty interesting stuff with neuroscience and how the brain works and there's a lot of my brain that's dead matter and that's actually how you get fixed is go around the dead matter. Yeah, so I was just thinking about that, and I don't ever think about stuff like that but I just get better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your brain finds ways to go around what's not working Exactly. Yeah, have you ever thought about doing the psilocybin treatment?
Speaker 2:yeah, I haven't. I haven't tried it, but um, I've thought about everything. I stay wide open to possibilities, including computer chips, you know yeah, I just hey, neural link, baby, neural link yeah yeah, it's pretty incredible. We're already there. I thought it would take a lot longer, but I'll try anything once to see if it helps.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to be able to.
Speaker 2:Pragmatism. Yes, exactly, do what works. So, yeah, I figure I'll be able to use my hand with the neural link or whatever it is probably about, just to fit in with the rest of the of my life. That's been so ironic. Uh, just the uh, dichotomies and whatever the words, big words that I don't like to use. You know, it'll happen about three months, 90 days before I croak. It'll be, uh, I get to enjoy it, life is gone and I, I would expect nothing less but, um, it's, that's all good. That would be something to see and experience before.
Speaker 2:You know, like I told adam the other day, I ran out of blood pressure meds the day before and I said yeah. So I was like, well, you know, if I, if I leave this place the next 48 hours at least, I got to go on that 72 footer. We were out there floating around and exploring the yacht all day and it was great because there's three different places the captain can drive the boat from, so he's hopping around all three and you don't know where exactly the steering and everything's coming from. It was great, yeah, really awesome guy down south with a huge brand new boat called the high life, because he was a distributor, for he was the biggest distributor, I guess, in south florida for miller company for years and years. So he's got a beautiful boat that he named after a beer, which makes sense.
Speaker 1:I mean, why not when you got?
Speaker 2:the money. Well, that's how he got the money, so that's perfect.
Speaker 1:That is perfect. Now tell us about the. What's the title of the book?
Speaker 2:book is called both ends of the barrel and it's got a long and unnecessary subtitle, but but it helps you understand, you know you gotta sell it to the people, my man no, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's uh, both ends of the barrel, from the troop surge to Fort Hood, a dozen years in the global war, and I've only served eight years.
Speaker 2:So there's a little bit of a stipulation there that I got out in 13 and that was a dozen years after 9-11, which started the global war on terror, and I was a part of it.
Speaker 2:You know, fort Hood terrorist attack was the second largest attack on US soil after 9-11. So it was amazing because the two Texas senators finally had to step up because our president, whose name shall not be spoken, would not declare it a terrorist attack because he didn't want it on his record. Anyways, five years took us to get Purple Hearts, and that was because the two senators stepped up and changed the criteria through Congress that if you're an active duty service member anywhere in the world and you're a victim of a legitimate terrorist attack, you get the Purple Heart because it's a global war, and so that's very interesting and I've tried to keep track of how many guys around the world have benefited from that legislation, not that it's that important to me. But it's also pretty interesting to me that it took Congress or the senate to step up and introduce that bill, because the president wouldn't uh do the right thing, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:You know that's in the past and uh, I finally got it and uh, I get to enjoy that benefit every month. And, um, just another part of my of of still being here is thank God, as long as the US Treasuries exists, I'm okay. So thank you all for paying your taxes.
Speaker 1:We greatly appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it's sad to say, cause I never, you know, when you sign up you're you're going to war, you know you are and um, and you. You think the worst thing could be die, but then you don't realize that 25 years later you still belong to the U? S government and um, and if you survive it's okay. I know how to deal with him and actually I've avoided going to lawyers and going that route because hopefully you thing that I learned in the hospitals and that's how you have to be with the VA. Yeah, so persistent.
Speaker 1:You know, abso-fucking-lutely, it is the single worst fucking experience any veteran will go through is having to fight for the benefits that they rightfully deserve, and so many of our veterans are constantly in that fight and they don't make it easy.
Speaker 2:They do not make it easy. And then they wonder why there's guys on the streets and then they have to start programs to help them and start the cycle all over again. It's all broken. That's okay, because we get to fix it the guys that experienced it. You get to fix it through guidance, leadership and tenacity. Grow some damn balls and do your jobs, anyways, yeah that's all I got to say about that.
Speaker 2:The book is. You know, it's really the biggest part of my life this year and now from now on, and getting that story out there so, you know, as many people can read it as possible. And um, thankfully, I was, um, I was a little benevolent uh, I wouldn't say that because I try to stay humble. You know, I'm not elevated because I wrote a book. Lots of people have written books, especially about war. But, um, just a matter of um, I wanted to include in different inspect perspectives and introspections from other people into it, because it's all part of the story. And um, and so I've got my ex-wife in there.
Speaker 2:I went a little crazy on her more than a little crazy on her and uh, it's in there. And then the first responder that day, kim griffin, who was called to the scene of the shooting with 40 people laying on the ground and her actual memories of that day and pretty incredible stuff that I wanted to have in there. You know you've got my perspective, which is, I think, well, I mean, it's kind of the whole reason you buy the book you want to hear the story. But then I, you know, I didn't, and it's pretty simple, I didn't know anybody, and then I was crawling on the ground, yeah, so, but no, I added that in because just it made sense and, uh, if I hadn't included them their versions, then nobody would hear so were you able to maintain a good relationship, a working relationship, with your ex-wife.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really was, and it continues, but it's all for our son.
Speaker 2:We agreed we were going to make it easier for him if we could. Yeah and yeah, and that's the best thing, we both made us more mature. I think I'm more mature, I know I am, I don't know about her, but she ended up uh, getting sick, which I won't go into details, but yeah, she got a little, um little bout with cancer and um, yeah and uh. So that is very sad and that was it made it easier for me to empathize and kind of see her side of it and then and then realize what you know, what the hell I put her through in our marriage.
Speaker 1:So I think, when, when you look at the history and the amount of devotion somebody has to pour into their significant other to help them along that recovery, that there's still a lot of love and care. Um yep, were you able to capture some of that in the book as well?
Speaker 2:yeah, I I mean let's excuse towards the end of the book. I I kind of am trying to turn the corner. So the end of the book kind of leads into the future and I didn't organize it well enough to go chronological or anything in the book. It's kind of just a bunch of stories thrown together because I got a jumbled up mind it's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm sitting there repeating stories that I've already told. Some of them are word for word paragraphs, with the editing we screwed up on. I cut the strings. Man, I was struggling and I knew, if I didn't just cut the strings and back away from the whole project, that I was going to die so or end up in the hospital, which is equivalent to me, and um so. So I cut the strings about 60 days short. I just couldn't do it. And, uh, thankfully I or hopefully I have a chance, uh, be, uh, you know, be able to correct that one of these days, re-edit it.
Speaker 2:But the content itself is solid. I mean, I really dug deep for the stories and was trying to be as honest as possible. I wanted it to feel like we were sitting around an air terminal in Kuwait just telling stories, and that's honestly what it turned out that way. So, so I'm happy, satisfied with the way it turned out. And, uh, but yeah, it's just something I had to do, needed to be done. So I'm living at the beach and I got time. Why not do it?
Speaker 2:yes, and and yep, it turned out great and I'm really happy I did it and um keep pushing forward and and living on the beach, just loving this every minute of it, and I the good, the bad, the ugly I really do enjoy every minute of it and, uh, I know their spirits are here with me and get to enjoy a little bit. Hopefully. I know my relationship with God and what's going to happen when I go and I just have this good feeling of acceptance and awareness and I wish that more people could be like me. I'm liberated pretty much from the prison. I was in in that hospital and it really feels good, so I will.
Speaker 1:I will stop blabbering, but not blabbering at all, brother, uh, I can't, uh, can't thank you enough for being vulnerable, willing to share your journey. Man, it is nothing short of amazing.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:It's a miracle you're here with us today and it's not lost on you. You don't come across as somebody that's just like nah, it's all right.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, how can you ignore that? Slap in the face you know, it's just.
Speaker 2:I just think that sometimes he, the spirit God, shows himself on earth, and I just think that there's many different things that happen every day that you just kind of let it slide off your back and you don't realize that's a prick. That is god right there and um, and thankfully most vets understand that you know my story and when I'm talking to him face to face, you know it's just, it was god and the spirit that saved me, and so now I get to carry on for a little while and uh, loving it. So thanks for having me. Man, I really appreciate this opportunity and uh, hope we're in touch, stay in touch, and uh, I'm going to be a fan now, so I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, brother, it was, uh it. It was nothing short of amazing being here holding space and being able to hear your story, man.
Speaker 2:Space time I love it holding space and being able to hear your story, man. Space time I love it. It's just great. I really, I really do appreciate it, man absolutely.
Speaker 1:Thanks again, brother, and to everybody out there, remember, when you're going through something, don't let it win. Keep fighting, keep fucking fighting. And at the end of the day, if you need some motivation, just think of patrick easy metaphor you're just getting over the hill you're just fighting up a hill, that's all that's it till next time again, man.
Speaker 2:Thank you take care.
Speaker 1:If you like what we're doing and you enjoying the show, don't forget to share us. Like us, subscribe and head on over to our Patreon, where you can be part of our community and get access to all of our episodes as soon as they drop. And remember we get through this together. Take care you, thank you.
