Episode 165: John Stryker Meyer

Deny Caballero and John "Tilt" Meyer, two Green Berets from different eras, bridge the past and present through their extraordinary narratives. Their voices resonate with the courage and sacrifice inherent to the special forces community, from harrowing tales of the Vietnam War to the daring missions of Afghanistan. These firsthand accounts not only serve as a living history but as a beacon, guiding and inspiring future generations with every gripping detail they unveil.
 
 Throughout the discussion, we honor over 700 fallen soldiers, etching their heroism in our collective memory and paying tribute to the untold stories of valiant veterans. Exploring the creation of memorials and the relentless efforts of organizations like the Special Operations Association, we underscore the importance of remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice. Our conversation also navigates the profound bonds forged in combat, the transition from active warfare to supporting indigenous forces, and the heartache tied to operations like Pineapple Express, which sought to save allies amidst chaos.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:26

A couple of things that don't make any more noises you know we're good man, we'll start it right now and capture some B-roll. All right, sounds good. Yeah yeah, it's crazy times. I've started reaching out to a lot more of our legacy Green Berets, trying to capture more historicals, because I feel that we're going to lose a lot of our oral history if we don't capture it, if we don't try to record it, encapsulate it in podcasts and videos. And I was just at Modern Warfare Week back in November and I ran into a group of guys that were working on a video game that think you were helping develop or participating oh, yeah and yeah For Honor 3. Yeah, yeah, and man if, sitting down talking to those guys, they just developed a way to make sure that those stories and that history is preserved in a whole different media, and that's freaking awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:30

Oh yeah, absolutely yeah. In fact, rob Graham, the point man for that out of the UK right now they're en route to Vietnam with Larry Trimble, and Larry was the guy up on the Marble Mountain the night that FUB4 got hit. Yeah, and we still lost 16 Green Berets, but if Larry hadn't been up there with his recontinue it took out a lot of mortars that they would dug the NBA were dumping on the camp. If he hadn't been up there, it would have been a lot more. When Larry's going back and they're going to video him up on Marble Mountain, oh shit.

Speaker 1: 2:07

I know, I think it's a perfect place to start off with. Sure, that's a remarkable way to capture history and capture a story. Oh yeah, and also.

Speaker 2: 2:19

I've got some contemporary guy. There's a guy who I met through the Special Operations Association. He was with third group and he got attached to the guys from CAG. We had a bunch of missions with these guys and he was in and out of Pakistan all kinds of places and he's got stories up the yin yang. Yeah, he's too humble about it and I don't think he signed NDAs on any of this shit because he was third group. Yeah, Anyways, I'll be glad to introduce. His name is Garrett Crawford. He's based out of Colorado Springs. Now, Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 2:56

Yeah, it's that our talk here he copied. Yeah, we need it because the quiet, professional moniker is great when we're in, but when we're on the outside, we have these stories to tell, be able to not only allow our history to be preserved but to help inspire the next generation of great war fighters. Oh yeah, that's how guys like myself even thought about becoming a Green Brace seeing and reading the books, understanding like, holy shit, these are renegades. These are men that you know. They tell them like, hey, it's 100%, you know casualty rate. Are you willing to do this? And guys are like, yeah, fuck, yeah, I'm willing to do it, let's, let's roll.

Speaker 2: 3:42

Yeah, I read the book. Great, I read the book. What would John Wayne do? He'd do it.

Speaker 1: 3:48

Exactly, yeah, that's and that's looking back at our Vietnam era Green Brace. That's something that is very unique, absolutely. You are faced with the reality that these missions across the border are insanely dangerous, filled with uncertainty oh yeah, we're still willing to go in there, like what drew you to that mission set.

Speaker 2: 4:22

Well, you know, nothing drew me to it, it was just. It was just the way things evolved. We went through training group. We had instructors like Sergeant Wagner and Sergeant Russo and they all told us that they all had two or three tours already. So this is 1967. They've been there, gone through the A camps, and they all said hey, when you get to Vietnam after your in country training, little guys going to come out and say we're looking for volunteers, but they won't tell you for what. But don't do it, just go to an A camp, learn about the people, because those projects everybody dies there. Oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 5:01

I love a recruitment drive.

Speaker 2: 5:03

Yeah, yeah. So we go through the in country training. We saw the movie the Green Brace and, sure enough, the last day before we sign out a little guy comes up hey, we're looking for volunteers to join in McIntyre. He goes hey, for what? You can't say. Either you're in or you're not. And I was welcome to talk. We all volunteered, of course. Oh yeah, young and dumb.

Speaker 1: 5:32

I love that. Oh man, that is. That is insane.

Speaker 2: 5:36

And they just forgot to tell us that there was a hundred percent casualty rate between wound in action, killed in action or MIA. You know?

Speaker 1: 5:43

Yeah, that's another staggering thing. When you look at the list which there's a lot of conspiracy theories out there we got. When we got back our last group of POWs, a lot of Americans thought, okay, it's done, it's, we got everybody back. It's like no, no, you look, if you go to the website SLA and you see the SLA missing an action, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:13

And we also have the National League of POWs and MIA families. They got their website. And then we have DPAA, which but don't forget to getting back to before I forget. Getting back to legacy, yeah, fifth group is now. They have a nonprofit and they're working with the SFA, chapter 38 out of up in Kentucky, and they're putting together a Vietnam Green Beret KIA Memorial. They're going to have a whole stone and there's over 700 green berets that were killed and that includes I think that includes the Saug men and they're going to note the 50 green Berets that are MIA from Saug. Yeah, and yes, you're right that SLA, the Special Operations Association, has their website set up and that's on here. That's one more important step for the legacy you know from Vietnam. Yeah, Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 7:16

It's shocking that so many names, so many men are still unknown and nobody. It's just time just nobody stops to say, hey, let's continue checking, let's continue deep diving into this, yeah, and then we, you know DPAA.

Speaker 2: 7:38

Just, I got issues with them we all do, but they've been at this for a while and I wish they've done a better job. And then he had COVID to stop everything. I don't want to go down that road. We can talk about that later. We got to talk about first. But yeah, the 50 green Berets are listed as MIA and you say it today. People just it kind of like goes over the head. They just don't understand what that is. You know, when you know my story, that's how I got my job. I get in the camp and the recon team was wiped out. Well, we got an opening in recon. Now Welcome to the secret war.

Speaker 1: 8:16

Yeah, and that's something that we look back. And it's still unless you are a student and dig into the books and pick apart the narrative some individuals such as yourself we don't talk about the secret wars. We don't talk about the operations that were done in Cambodia and Laos, it's just sort of a glance story. Oh, we won't talk about this. Those are important missions. And we look into Afghanistan, look at what we experienced with Pakistan being this wonderful haven for the Taliban and it's like shit. We've seen this before, guys. We've literally seen this before. But I would argue, in your endure day and age in that conflict, holy shit. Talk about supply, talk about movement of personnel. It was robust. You guys were being held back from being able to, and for years, and then finally, it's okay, we got to do something about this, and that's the beauty of your unit and what you guys were able to do and, with appeal, back that curtain and expose what was really happening and be like, hey, this is pretty fucking robust, there's a lot going on here.

Speaker 2: 9:28

Well, yeah, and even like you said, with today, particularly with Afghanistan and Pakistan, that border, I mean nobody I mean nobody has not that I'm aware of has really written about what SF and Delta Force and the Navy SEALs, how many missions they ran across the fence there. Yeah, I mean I was talking to you about this guy. We'll talk about it off camera. I'm not sure if he'd want to do it and he's kind of he could talk your ear off. But on the other hand, he's got that SF quiet, professional side. But I was talking to him yesterday and he started going through like over 20 missions when they were in Pakistan and they didn't serve by helicopter, they inserted a night.

Speaker 2: 10:14

Sometimes they would go in with a truck, a pickup truck with hay and stuff, and they have two or three man teams that were just the truck and keep rolling. They literally roll out of this rock, skirt to the side and then go do a, an observation point for two or three days. They have to hide during the day. All that I mean those are great stories, yeah, but nobody's heard of it. I'm not, I'm not not aware of it, but I have. Again, I'm guilty of not reading every book that's come out since on on the Afghanistan, but still, that's that to me is like that's a cross-defense today. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 10:52

It's lessons, and I would say that it's. It's because I'm, gentlemen, like yourself, the lessons learned, the ability to continue that you guys paved the way for us, like reading those books and see the, the ridiculousness and the audacity of like, all right, we're just three guys, we're going in here and we've got our smaller partner force and we're going to make it happen. And it's direct. I can, in my own lived experience, I remember going in 2015, Afghanistan, with just me and one of my echoes, leading 30 commandos, and it's like you're at, you're nowhere near me and my only QM just in columns with you. I'm like, yeah, I'm pushing my stack of 30 dudes over this wall. It's like that's that. There's that connection, that lineage, that legacy that's still there. And I know from my experience like, like you can vet these dudes, but you can only vet them so much.

Speaker 2: 11:53

Yeah, I mean in Afghanistan. That whole thing about I forget what the term is, but the green fire or blue fire, whatever it was you know you're indigent, it could turn on you. Yeah, some of our guys had that, but at least in solid that was a minimal problem. Yeah, at least I've never had that with my team. I was very fortunate that way. Yeah, it's still Afghanistan. I mean, god, that's historic, but that was happening there.

Speaker 1: 12:21

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's such a, and it's such a bitter, sweet, horrible note and so much, oh my God, yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:30

Yeah, yeah, cause, what's that? It's like August 16th is your date, yeah, but what? 2021? Yeah, and then we have April 30th 1975. Yeah, this is like what.

Speaker 1: 12:45

So many striking parallels, yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:48

Yeah, cause when I left after my second tour of duty, you know I left camp and everything suddenly because of this asshole Colonel. Oh, but my, the hardest part about was after we had party that night, I all the guys were in bed. I literally my interpreter was with me. He was the last guy standing, everybody else drunk, and passed out and happy he goes, do you need anything else? And I said no, he literally passed out outside. I picked him up, I dusted him off, carried him into his bed, put him in, tucked him in and I just stood there at the doorway for a minute just looking at those guys.

Speaker 2: 13:28

I was alive after 19 months in NAMM, thanks to them. And now I'm leaving. It's like and this was April 1970. We're going like, what does the future hold for these guys? And I'm just a poor little peasant returning to Trenton, new Jersey. I had no means to help. And then, when April 30th came, it was like, oh my God, these days guys have helped get their Afghanis out. Yeah, it was, um, where is there? Yeah, that we could talk about there for future interviews, if you want.

Speaker 1: 13:59

Absolutely that. That really hits home for me. Our last, our last deployment for me, my team, was 2019, 2020. And right when the next ODA comes in, you do your left seat, right seat, you hand over your partner force. They're going to be working with a new team, but those are your guys, especially when it's the unit and you have your little ceremony. They, you know, high five, but you're still going to the next briefings. You're still going and sitting in on the upcoming missions.

Speaker 1: 14:35

And you're seeing that even in that timeframe January of 2020, as you're watching the movements and what they're briefing, what their higher command is briefing to them, and we had a very specialized elite unit of Afghans, kataeos. They, they're not your normal commandos, they're elite fighting force and very small pinpoint assault force. And you started seeing the fear creep in to these Afghan senior leaders. They're like, okay, americans are leaving at some point. The election's not flushed out yet, we don't know what the next administration's gonna do. They knew things weren't going right and I could see the planning and the mission planning and how they were strategizing our small force to cover such a broad area of the North. And we're like you're not using your guys effectively. This is gonna be freaking chaos. This is gonna be a nightmare for our guys. And as we were stepping on that bird to leave Camp Stevenson for the last time and you just I remember just thinking to myself, it's like what does a fuchsia have in store for these guys? How are they gonna survive? How are they gonna be mad? Cause even in the North, they were coming up with wazoo stupid ideas for what to do, how to manage the Taliban and how to now you know cause.

Speaker 1: 15:59

One thing we never did and we had constantly been preaching, is you have to let these guys fight on their own, have to develop their own fighting force. Let them have success, taste that victory on their own. They never did, constantly saying no, no, no, we need numbers, we need Americans on the ground, we need to see numbers, we need numbers. It's like dude, at some point we're leaving. If you don't give them the opportunity to see success on their own and fight on their own, like while we're still here and have assets and we can come in and help them, they're never gonna do it. You can't put this nation to fight for on their own after constantly being in war and having us take lead.

Speaker 1: 16:43

I think that was the last day in country I realized, man like these dudes are in for one hell of a fight when we pull out. And we knew it, everybody knew it. But then, just a year later, sitting at home, sitting at the unit, watching stuff play out, and we're all calling it. People are calling the place like hey, coondoos is falling, the North is gonna fall at this time, this district center is gonna fall. And you just see it Boom, boom, boom, boom. And now you're just Anakin, because you know where your guys were at last, you know what they're templated, and it's just like you can't fucking do anything.

Speaker 2: 17:18

And it happens so fast.

Speaker 1: 17:20

Yeah, Absolutely. But the last thing that was just so shocking was the helicopter evacuations from the embassy and it was just like seeing that. And then in every news media put the split picture Afghan evacuation and Vietnam side by side and I was like fuck, there it is. Now we're truly connected, Now green berets of the present are truly connected to the green berets of the past and such a painful, tragic ending. It's like fuck, now we really lived it, Now we really saw it. That was just such a hard thing to deal with.

Speaker 2: 18:03

Well, yeah, see, and like in my year, there was no way for us to reach out. But this time, around Pineapple Express, the guy who was my technician for SOGCAST he's a fifth group and he just had his retirement party and the event at fifth group and he helped bring home over 200 people. That's awesome, but it was like there'd be nights where he had three cell phones gone between him talking to people there and people in between Pineapple Express and others that he worked with. Yeah, so we got our allies. They were just left behind and deserted along with that. How many billions of dollars of equipment is this mixture showing up in Israel? It's a handful of moths and those cowards.

Speaker 1: 18:54

Yeah, that was the other thing. That was such a pain in the ass, trying to conceptualize and understand and trying to express frustration in a positive way without just letting it burn inside you. So much equipment, so much tagging it's like we're literally arming the next generation of insurgents for the foreseeable future. Just so much left behind.

Speaker 2: 19:20

Well, and here's one more parallel Like you were thinking about training your people to run the missions, and with SOG was eight years that SOG existed for, 64 to 72. Idaho my recon team was one of the original five teams and they ran missions. We had SF people going all the way through Near the very end. Idaho Doty Kwan became the team leader and they ran a couple of missions all in the ditch, across the fence, no way. I always felt proud of that, even though I wasn't there. This is like two years after I left, but they did it, hell yeah. But then again, three years later or whatever, april 30th rolls around, these guys had the scape of the eight, yeah, and we had King Bee Palace, the South Vietnamese that were in the 219th, that flew all these missions for us. They ensured us in the Laos, north Vietnam DMZ and, more importantly, they pulled us out and someone was King Bee Palace Like.

Speaker 2: 20:27

There was Captain Tin. Then Captain retired as a colonel. He was in a reeducation camp at 13 and a half years Since Found Me thought he was dead. There was Captain Tuong who saved our recon team on Christmas Day on the mission where I got turned upside down. He was the pilot that got us down to the ground. And we lost Captain Tuong a few years ago, but he was in a reeducation camp for five years. And even Captain On, who'd lost both hands, he has hooks to this day. He's still alive up in San Jose, smoking one pack of cigarettes a day like a chimney.

Speaker 1: 21:11

But he was in a reeducation camp yeah, I can't even imagine what that would have been like.

Speaker 2: 21:15

Yeah, and so, yeah, so we had these parallels. Yeah, yeah, we're now in the agony. At least, to your guys, we're able to bring some of their people home.

Speaker 1: 21:28

Yeah, and then that work continues today. It's one parallel that's really hard. That connects us the love that we have for the individual fighting forces that we work with. Nobody else has that experience. We have SFAB now, but it's not the same.

Speaker 1: 21:52

When you are working and living day in, day out with these commandos, the Kataehas, your Afghan partner force, you build relationships, you build brotherhoods and, yeah, it's just like an ODA when you have your own like I had my own little element that was just like there's a language barrier, but at the end of the day, you look into their eyes to have confidence that you're going to lead them in the right place, put their safety into consideration when you're planning this mission. It's just like they were an ODA member. You don't make that bond in the conventional forces. You don't have that and it's a hard thing to let go of that. You don't have that ability to reach out and ensure these guys are safe these days, to reach out and be like, hey, you OK. Like that is something that is so unique to being a Green Beret, whether it's a Green Beret now or from the past. Like you live and die by those brotherhoods because they have your back ultimately.

Speaker 2: 22:59

Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I make no bones about it, I'm alive thanks to my team period. They were the ones that ran point on every mission, not me, me and my big feet. I went on pants from crawling through the jungle so often. So between them and the King Bee Piles, of course, our attack air, and the only thing we didn't have was the A-10 Warthog. But we had this A-1 Skyberator, the Spads, yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:32

You still had great support back then.

Speaker 2: 23:36

Sometimes it would take a little while for it to get there, but when the Calvary showed up, man, hang on sloopy, absolutely, man yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:46

Yeah, that relationship.

Speaker 2: 23:47

Yeah, because you live in. I mean, like Sal, who was our counterpart Vietnamese team leader, at one point he was pregnant, his wife was pregnant, so we're all excited, we can't wait to meet the baby. Well then there are complications and they lost the baby, almost lost his wife. So it's kind of like, hey, Sal needs a week, you go home, you come back when you're ready.

Speaker 2: 24:16

Because he had trained people to fill in for him, because we always do it the traditional SF way Trained people, and he even trained them so that if all the Americans get shot up, they can still get the interpreter or somebody else who we kept working with the English speaking, so that they could get on the A-10 or the Prick 25 and talk to Tak Air and eventually get the team out, those of us who were still alive. That was part of the cross training and oh yeah, this being close like that, I mean we all wept when we learned about Sal's losing his baby. You know, yeah, but you're just so close to those indigenous troops, I mean, my God, and they're a good people.

Speaker 1: 25:06

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:07

You know, and in a way you know the South Vietnamese were. They have more of a touchy-feely. Like you're sitting around, you'll have hands on each other and your plumber poker. You'll have your hand on your thigh. There's nothing gay about it or anything, it's just a close camaraderie. And during my second tour of duty I always ate dinner at the indigenous mess hall. We'd all be sitting there eating and go back, play poker. And when I came home I was so used to that we had a church softball team that played on B40 Army, so we still had a softball team when I came home. Yeah, so we're at the game one day and my best friend that I grew up with, we're standing there. I put my arm around, oh you know, and I could feel that vibration, like that WTF vibration from my buddy Vimps. You know, hey, we're good friends but we're not that close. There's a little social adjustment, you know.

Speaker 1: 26:05

Yeah, yeah, we tend to pick up on the cultural norms. It's the same thing and it's no different. Working in Afghanistan or when you're working in your AOR, going down in South Central America same thing. And those friendships, man, they last forever. Oh yeah, that's like the beauty of this brotherhood. This specific profession, you know being regular infantry, being a paratrooper you never had that experience, never had like. When you become a green beret and you travel across the world, you're training with partner nations and you're able to just understand a different culture and like man like this. This is brotherhood. This is the same thing. It's one of the most attractive things about being in special operations and being able to experience a completely different life and different cultures and still being able to find that common link in brotherhood, whether you're in fifth group.

Speaker 2: 27:07

Nobody wants to live on a communism.

Speaker 1: 27:09

Yes, there's a lot of people here that keep preaching.

Speaker 2: 27:14

It's a great thing, oh yeah, but they just haven't seen the reality of it. I wish they could run a couple of recon missions, but I want to introduce them to the NVA. It'll be the first one to tell you, john, that the ISIS and the Taliban assholes yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:32

Yeah, man, that is a sad reality that we're living in today. We have spent a vast majority of our life combating that evil, and there's people here within this country that think it is the answer to everybody's problem. That's fucking insane.

Speaker 2: 27:54

Well, yeah, those years have been decades now of indoctrination from higher education getting into the local schools, yeah, talking about how wonderful, no, no, no, no, no, yeah, I mean how we got to get the word out. But again, that's one of the good things about COVID is that a lot of this is surfaced now, yeah, and the fact that you got the president of Harvard University as a known plagiarizer and there are people defending her. Oh, yeah, whoa, yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:27

How deep can this corruption go, man? I tell you, one of the things that got me thinking is like did they send off all of the great men to fight at war in hopes that we would all die and just defend the herd, so they could just start with their crazy agenda? Right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:50

With all those people that hate America. We're going to live here and we want to change it and we hate it the way it is. But wait a minute. What's better? If you want to move to where you think it's better? Yeah, you're welcome to you know if you're taking the Venezuelan, if you think it's better down there.

Speaker 1: 29:08

Yeah, venezuela used to be thriving. It used to be a great nation. Oh yeah, yep, one of your.

Speaker 2: 29:13

Yeah, absolutely, and they're still pushing it down there. So who knows man the challenges? Yeah, what's the darkness? Or everywhere.

Speaker 1: 29:25

They really are. It's hard to pretend like it's not there. And I think when we're so busy, while we're in deploying training, we kind of lose sight of what's going on at home because we're hardly home, yeah, and then when you retire and you start going back into your community, start your second chapter in life, then it's really easy to see. It's like, man, things are really weird in our own country.

Speaker 2: 29:55

Well, yeah, and you know well, of course there's a shock, like in my case. I remember this is like November of 68. We were in a target and we come out under heavy enemy fire, barely get out, the king be saved us. We come back and we go into the team room and there's a like news week or time. You know, 500,000 people demonstrating against the war, yeah, you go like WTF and you know you should have met the guys that just wanted to kill me, mm-hmm, and they wanted to kill me and anybody that likes democracy. So they want us to be communists.

Speaker 2: 30:35

I walked me to come on over. No, and that was just horrible, but that's the way it was Even then. And then when I got out of the army in 70, I went back to school and there are some political scientists and some education foundation folks who talked about the constitution being old. Yeah, and we got to revise it or ignore it and go on with the new because it's a modern day. America now, excuse me, yeah, yeah, that constitution is there for a reason. We can build on it and try to improve it, but don't, don't change it outright.

Speaker 1: 31:16

Yeah, john, I'm seeing the same thing right now. Oh yeah, going through school, and you know I'm a lot older and I'm going going into these classes. I'm sitting down and one of the mandatory courses I have to go through is social justice theory. No, yeah, oh yeah, yep. And and I, you know I'm still regardless of not being, you know, I'm retired, but I will always have my chief hat on Be smart, listen, observe, take copious notes and understand what's going on around you.

Speaker 1: 31:52

And what they're teaching is how to ensure that you can find any way to label yourself a victim, because now it's a. We're in a time of victims and oppressors and I'm like, wait a second, why are you trying to tell me that I have to figure out how I'm a victim, our? Why are you trying to get people in this class, these young, impressionable minds, to find ways to become victims so that they can be, you know, the leading to charge against the oppressiveness of the United States? I'm like, man, like this is really, really weird. Why is this being taught? Why is this in my curriculum? And it it really makes no sense. None of the things that you're having the right papers that go against everything that is American in value and nature, and I'm like man, like. This isn't about equality. This is about destruction and destroying what really makes America the great nation that it is Trying to find ways to poke holes into our constitution, into the way that we have lived for years, and trying to just label it all as being bad.

Speaker 2: 33:06

And have you all? Have you all visited the cemeteries in France, luxembourg, belgium, where we have thousands of Americans that died fighting? You know, real Nazis, yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:18

Yeah yeah. So it's alive and well. The propaganda machine is still there. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:27

And they, you know, like when I came home, the, the communists that were proactive on campus, were just rude and crude. Yeah, but they've learned how to polish up and clean up their act. You know, whatever they call themselves these days, socialist, democratic, whatever they're much more sophisticated and they've corrupted the institutions. Yeah, like you said, a class like that, it's like whoa and they teach it like it's gospel. That's exactly it. Oh, fun, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:57

It's when they and then they introduced the Marxist ideology and they, they go through and they bring out the manifesto and that's required reading, of course, and I'm like you know this. This seems like something that should not be taught as a positive. This should be a lesson learned.

Speaker 2: 34:19

Well, yeah, could they forget to tell you how Stalin had? How many villains throughout? Like eight or nine, with his different women, while he killed millions of his own people? Yeah, and they starved him to death, but they don't talk about that side of Marxism, yeah, they never.

Speaker 1: 34:38

It glosses over all the times. It has led to just countless deaths.

Speaker 2: 34:44

Yeah, they, the Russians, did good at Stalin grad. We have to give them credit for it and it was a major victory. That helped World War II, yeah, and they had a hell of a commitment. They lost over a million people, but that's. That's one good, positive thing. But don't talk to me about communism and socialism and how great it is overall, yeah, and it's never made any country great.

Speaker 1: 35:09

No, yeah, it's only one. You can't. It's really good at reducing numbers, that's it, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:17

And I wish we could send somebody's crowd talking about how, how oppressive it is in America. No, excuse me, go to Tehran or go to Iraq, afghanistan, and go ahead and do your political speech there and just see how long you live. Yeah, it is a real impression.

Speaker 1: 35:40

It's a really dark and dangerous world for anybody that thinks that they will be accepted and loved and brought in and embraced in these really far off, dangerous places. It's not. It's not what you think. It is a very, very dark and very painful, very scary, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I mean even just just God fearing Americans.

Speaker 2: 36:11

No matter who you are, if you meet with some of those people, you're automatically in trouble. You're automatically at a target on your back.

Speaker 1: 36:19

Yeah, and people have gone out of their way to try to go out there and help, whether it's Green Peace or various missionaries. How many countless stories that we've heard of people that were just simply there to help with medicine, with aid, bringing faith and Christianity somewhere, that are met with violence and oftentimes it ends in a very brutal, painful death? Yeah, and that. Peaceful places, no, yeah. And these constant demonstrations on behalf of Palestine are another crazy indicator of the times. How crazy and how far we've gone as a nation.

Speaker 1: 37:02

I just, yeah, I liken it to the same sort of demonstrations we had during the Vietnam War, advocating for, you know, death to Americans and our service members. And it's like, dude, you realize you're parading around doing demonstrations for people with an ideology that literally states that you are my enemy and as soon as I get rid of these people within my neck of the woods, I'm coming after you. Like there's no peace with them. There's no reason why you should try to demonstrate and think that they are your brothers and comrades or not. You're advocating for your own death. Oh, yeah, sure, no-transcript, but I want to take it back to where we started earlier in our conversation.

Speaker 2: 37:54

We did wander a little.

Speaker 1: 37:55

Yeah, but that's okay. That's what we do. There's a video game that you've been a part of with some other amazing veterans that's actually built on real life experience.

Speaker 2: 38:07

Right, solid Prairie Fire by Arma3. Yeah, oh great game.

Speaker 1: 38:11

Yeah yeah, Arma3 is amazing. It's fooled a lot of people with its reality. It's been. A lot of news media have taken clips from the video game itself and published it and thinking that it's real war footage. That's how good it is.

Speaker 2: 38:29

Yeah, yeah, you know, I saw one of those videos, yeah, and it showed them shooting down a helicopter, right yeah. So I put something up on Facebook and then Rob Graham says hey, be advised, that's not real footage, that's from our program. They stole from one of our games. They go.

Speaker 1: 38:49

No, yeah, it looks real, it looks real, so it's so good. But tell us about that mission, because it's actually written and it's taken from real world operation that you were a part of.

Speaker 2: 39:04

Yeah, so he again is his Arma3. Rob Graham is running pointing with that and gosh, now three or four years ago, rob, I met Rob through Ken Boray and Ken was a young lieutenant. He got on my recon team, idaho, and he was the one to help transition the final team so that Idaho would run all indig missions. And then Ken went to another team. He stayed in retired as a two star oh wow. And yeah, he was a commander at Fifth Group. All these special assignments during his life. He's one of our amazing legends. And again you meet the guy in the street you just say, oh, this looks like a retired college professor or something you know. Come on, he's seen the elephant more than once, but just a great guy.

Speaker 2: 40:01

But that all started us talking with the game. They wanted stories, so we cooperated, talking about our stories, the background, and so the very early days of that you know, particularly with Ken, we had a lot of time with Rob talking about the concept, some of the stories, and now we're going to begin the process of a new game. They're also going to be looking at doing their begun recordings, to do some documentaries on soil. Yeah, and they I forget how many interviews, but they're dead serious about it, and Rob and his team have flown in from the UK to attend our annual meetings.

Speaker 2: 40:45

We have the Special Operations Association, which was formed by SOG veterans, and so we have not only the SOG men but the Audi Aviators. The Audi Aviators supported us as automatically a member, and then now we've expanded it to try to bring in today's spec ops SF men, and so they came out and that's where he began doing the interviews, and now they're moving forward, like I said, with the new game, a documentary. They may even start doing graphic novels. Oh, wow, off of that. So they might yeah, they might give one story from across the fence and do a graphic novel on it. Hey, you know, I'm in, I'm walking.

Speaker 1: 41:29

I'm the next Marvel legend.

Speaker 2: 41:31

Yeah, because the whole I mean like even talking to you now, right now, there's that SF side of me Don't talk, no, shut your mouth. Nobody cares that SF, we're the quiet professionals. And I still had this. No matter where I go, it's like the back of my mind. But so I know we're past the NDA now I'm relatively cool.

Speaker 2: 41:52

We got those 20 years out of the way and, to Rob's credit, he and his staff, he's hired veterans. He's got a UK airborne vets, a couple of guys that were in the 82nd airborne, and they're young guys and they're really enthusiastic, they're dedicated to the history, they won't tolerate bogus bullshit and because sometimes, even with the game, you have to move a little quicker than normally, we would in the jungle, but you get the feeling of the stories, yeah, and what they've done, I mean it's just capture a whole new audience of people and like my son, who was an Iraqi event, he was a wounded in action August 20th 2005. He loves the game he's been in and so some of our guys get into the game. I've stayed away playing because I know if I get going I'm done. I want to write another book, I want to do my podcast. You're going to be sucked in. Yeah, and my wife, you know my sweetheart still wants to get together once in a while for a little funny game with the grandson. Go out for a date, you know.

Speaker 1: 43:05

Yeah, games can be very addictive. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:11

You remember those very early ones with those little Atari games? Yeah, you know, I was addicted to those things. We played her for hours and I go oh, this is something that simple, don't do this now. This could be the new cocaine, I know.

Speaker 1: 43:25

That's exactly it Hijack the dopamine system. Then you're just constantly, especially if it's something that you've actually lived and done, then that's yeah, that's a little different.

Speaker 2: 43:38

Yeah, and the details that they have on that. You know, when you see the helicopter flying, the details in the background the mountains, the jungles, the stream, just the mixing stuff. So I helped them do the development and the programs. And so now we still get questions like we're at the reunion. We sat there, we had a meeting and went on for seven hours. Oh, holy cow. Yeah, we're talking about the future. How can we fine tune this? And then there's a lot of little SOPs that we had.

Speaker 2: 44:14

That is that these young guys because they're all vets, they've been to work. Yeah, they're working with Rob, and Rob's a Navy veteran. He served in the UK's Navy. Yeah, yeah, we're working with veterans that really are paying attention to the remote. And so there are several times with me, dick Thompson, we're there and we're going. That's not quite right. So we talk about it and look about ideas for the future as well as fine tuning what they've done. Yeah, like I said, I had to stay away from the game because I know once I get into it, forget it. Man, he's done. I'm going to do that when I get old, when I get into the 90s or so. I'm going to do some video game time then, but not right now.

Speaker 1: 45:01

What about? Are you writing another book?

Speaker 2: 45:05

Yeah, thank you. I just started book four and so again it'll be a compilation of stories and the first story is one of my favorite. Nothing that I'm involved with, but we had a guy named Jim Shorten Jones, so if you want to do an interview later with Jim, he'll talk to you. He was in the Navy, served in the NAMM I mean, I worked with the little people there from the Navy side. That board became a green beret, ran recon out of Contune and then after that he and I'll come back to one of his missions that makes him a truly unique SF guy. He got bored with SF, became a PJ and then he went on to become a radiologist, a doctor Holy cow. Now one of his missions in SOG was a bright light and that four went in and it got shot down on a bombing run on a bridge and so when it came in it hit a hilltop and went through a second hill and what they didn't realize at the time when in that second hill when they went through, it was NVA barracks. So this crashing F4 literally killed dozens of NVA and family members in their sleep and then it crashed on the third hill. So Jim went in with the recon team. They had to repel in. They got to the second hill. By then they could hear trucks of NVA coming. The weather was closing in and it was near the end of the day so they couldn't get to the third hill. So they get pulled down on strings under fire, make it back About 20 years later.

Speaker 2: 46:59

Jim took $35,000 of his own money. He went back to Cambodia, hired some young men, some people. One of them was a relative of a village chieftain in Cambodia and he didn't realize it at the time. But he hires these people. They go into the jungle and move to the site of that crash. It took them like two weeks to get there. When they get there they begin working the site, trying to find anything to lead to the recovery to two. There's actually two pilots. There was a pilot flying in the front seat and the back seat. The back seat was a pilot also on that mission. So armed uniform bandits came and took them out, forced them to leave. They said you can leave or die and fortunately they had the son of that chieftain with them or they would have all been killed. So they came back.

Speaker 2: 48:09

Jim went in with DPAA. He was on the site with them going through trying to find, literally sifting the soil. For two weeks or three weeks he stayed. He extended his time and stayed with them and this was like I think it was 17. And they said hey, we're going to go back, we'll call you. Well, they went back. They never called him. He learned about it after they came back, which is typical DPAA politics, which is just utter bullshit. But the two Air Force people are still MIA. But that's story with Jim. That's my first story going to be in the book, so it's going to be solid chronicles, volume two and this is the first time I've talked about it publicly, but it's the new year my wife has given me the green light. I don't do anything without my sweetheart and my main organizer behind me. Without her I barely get up in the morning, you know. Indeed.

Speaker 1: 49:12

Yeah, absolutely, and that is. That is a remarkable story.

Speaker 2: 49:17

Yeah, Then we've got to have others about SOG being compromised, and I'm going to revisit the August 23rd mission not a mission, but when they attacked our camp they were talking about earlier Larry Trimble and because I wrote about it and on the ground and that came out in 2007, I co-authored that with John Peters, a fellow recon guy, and there's been so much more that's come out on that and we're going to do probably redo that. And then there's a couple other stories that want to surprise people with. And then I'm going to have a little tribute to HEP, New York Cong, HEP, my interpreter, and I found some writing he's done and may either used as a prequel or a post script at the end somewhere.

Speaker 1: 50:13

Well, that's going to be good.

Speaker 2: 50:15

Well, hear me tell, but I got to get off my dead arse and start writing this stuff. I've been talking about it, but the support from my sweetheart, we'll get there.

Speaker 1: 50:26

Well, yeah, absolutely. I think all of us, when we're truly blessed, we find that that person in our lives our wives that can help kind of steer and direct all this chaos that's in here into productivity. I know my wife is my champion does the same thing for me, but I can't imagine your writing process. I've sat down, I started collecting and started writing. But man, it's. It's one of those things that you have to be dedicated, you have to get up and you have to set the timer and get to it, and my attention gets pulled one thing to another, and then I got to do a podcast. But how do you set yourself up for success when you start writing, when you are dedicated in front of your laptop or computer to write?

Speaker 2: 51:20

Well, in the beginning, the very first book across the fence when Anna gave me the green light to do this, we had four teenagers and a newborn in the house. Oh, geez, yeah, and so that's how strong she is. I mean no, she ran the house. She said you got to write this, and so it started out. I was in the living room, then we moved the furniture around, I was in the garage for a while and then our oldest son, ryan. He went to school and then we had the bedrooms moved around and then everyone went off. We joined the army, so that I had the main bedroom that became my office upstairs.

Speaker 2: 52:01

So the writing usually would be at night, but now that I'm here, I'm going to try to get up in the morning, get the exercise in, get the walk in and then hit the machine and grind it. That that doesn't happen. By nature, I'm a late night out and so I may shift, but hopefully right now I want to get into the writing early, go through the day, get at least five or six hours in there. Yeah, because I write standing up. I like the stand up desktop, yep, and as opposed to sitting, because it's just too much on the back, you know and so to hear me tell that's the I'm talking about it. But I got the first chapter with.

Speaker 2: 52:51

That's going to be a Jim Shorten Jones story. He's just one of our. That's the most incredible story in terms of overall commitment to the mission. Yeah, to go back, and I think he's met he's either met or talked to at least family members of one of the dead pilots and if DPA goes back, jim hopes to go back with him, even though Jim is he's a few years younger to me but he's still in good shape yeah, and he's ready to go. That's just like such an incredible story.

Speaker 1: 53:26

Yeah, that's commitment to your brothers in arms. That's.

Speaker 2: 53:31

Oh, yeah, and you know we always had the bright lights that would go in for the pilots. We had several missions like that. I mean, we had a bright light. We couldn't even get to the down aircraft because the enemy activity was just so intense. You know, yeah, that's one of the sacred missions. So this is 2024. We still had 1500 and different down to 76.

Speaker 2: 54:00

Mias from the Vietnam war throughout Southeast Asia. So that's Vietnam, laos, cambodia, thailand or a few. There's even a couple of pilots that went down on the border in China. Yeah, and out of that you got 50 green Berets, as we talked about early before we turned the machine on. There are still listed missing in action from the secret war and we've documented at least 83 aviators, either Marine Corps helicopter, army helicopters, a1 Sky Raiders from the Air Force and, of course, fast movers. Yeah, so in our times we had teams would be in contact. As soon as they pulled out, the Air Force would come in with a B-52 arc light and hammer that enemy area. So we were close and again, thanks to the close air support of all levels, you know, from the helicopters, take us in and out to the gunships, to that tack air. You know how sweet it is. You've used it yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:12

Yeah, that's in its. There's a, it's a bond, it's an unspoken commitment you have between the air support and the guys on the ground. God forbid something happens. But if you get shot down or something happens, you're, we're coming. Yeah, so fucking lute.

Speaker 2: 55:37

And you know we've heard about the Jolly Green Giants. Oh yeah, and their model is that others may live. Yep, and like the Lynn Black story that we had, where the nine-man team came up against the 10,000-man division and they lost the Jolly Green. We lost the A King B went down, the other aircraft was shot up. And that's when Lynn Black learned about that model up front. And they did. They, those Air Force men, put through the line. We'd lost the Air Force men trying to save their recon team. Yeah, We've.

Speaker 1: 56:17

I've been on ground with AC-130 that is Back there, that is sitting there providing overwatch in a really, really shady, bad situation and cloud coverage starts coming in, you get the fog that lays in and for those aircraft, like, high altitude is their safety Like. But time and time again, when they couldn't see us, they would drop down and this is going against orders. This is something that you know. That team, that air team, that pilot, those individuals are getting their astute at the very least, but they're willing to come down and drop altitude to provide coverage for us. No, kidding, like that's fucking, that's a bond. Like they don't know you anything. They don't know you. They maybe know a few of your teammates and maybe they know your captain and your team, your team sergeant and your warrant from sitting down and doing the air mission briefs. They don't know, they don't have an allegiance to you, but, god damn it, they know their mission, you're their mission. They're staying in there, they're staying on station.

Speaker 2: 57:28

And that's impactful.

Speaker 2: 57:29

Well yeah, See, you had that where in our case we seldom, we would never, meet any of the fast movers or A1 Sky Raider pilots. Forget it. And then we had some helicopter units that were attached to SOG and for a while at FUB1, we actually had a unit that lived on base with us. They would put their helicopters at the FUBI air base and they were there with us for six months, seven months. That was amazing, Because then if there was no fact to talk to, we would just get on the line directly with them. They hear the voice. So there's none of this word about establishing who. The idea is make sure you're a good guy, not the bad guy. None of that.

Speaker 1: 58:19

They would just come in and lay it down. Yeah, air weapons teams, and it's one thing to understand that you've got the best dudes on the field, but that's just 12 of you and maybe some partner force. And you're going up against a larger enemy force. But when you have an air weapons team, when you have those Apaches that roll up and they are heavily loaded and they're ready to lay down some impressive firepower, that's comfort. That's no. Yeah, they're just hunkered down and hey, it might be dangerous close but you're going to survive.

Speaker 2: 58:59

Well, yeah, because, like you're talking about your specters coming down, we were in layoffs. We went through three or four specters one night and at one point we got sucked in. The weather was so thick they couldn't get under. They tried, so we were stuck with using hand grenades because they kept coming at us. They didn't quite know exactly where we were and then we got low on hand grenades so we were throwing rocks.

Speaker 1: 59:26

Holy shit.

Speaker 2: 59:27

Yeah, Sal and Chow went out and they could hear better and they would tell us like they're getting close. So we throw hand grenades. So we throw hand grenades and that during that period of time I forget how long it was, it seemed like it lasted forever. But we were throwing rock. You hear them scurry away and then, Sal, they're close. So we throw another rock. They were scurry, but not as far. Then you throw a hand grenade. Keep modest, you know. And the other thing about that is when we left in the morning, we got pulled out in the morning. We did a bunch of gun rounds. They came in and all the dead were gone. They had pulled all the dead off during the night but you could see the blood trails and blood spots and things like that. That was amazing. Yeah, that's what I was expecting. I mean, they couldn't estimate how many thousands were coming for us and Spectre just leveled the playing field kept us alive.

Speaker 1: 1:00:39

Yeah, yeah, it's a big shout out to those guys and gals that run those beautiful, awesome machines of warfare, because they are something else to. I mean talk about anytime you called up for, or your TACP or your CCT called up for support and had those on the line, or even before the mission, when you're doing mission planning. There are a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff. People don't understand what goes into mission planning and allocating resources. You're at the north, you've got a whole different support package here and the guys in the south. But you know, for a lot of times and when things got really thin, you only had one or two maybe I believe one at the time that one gunship and everybody's jockeying to get it. And if task force is going out, they're getting it. If task force is staying in, then it's everybody's jockeying who's got the most important mission?

Speaker 1: 1:01:38

And when you fucking, when you slap that con up down and it's approved and you're getting what you request, I swear to you, me, the captain team, they're like, fuck, yeah, we got it. We got a package, we're getting it. And then you go in and if weather comes in, it's like hey, we're coming off station. It's like fuck, you feel a little bit more naked, just a little bit more vulnerable. You're sitting there like all right, now it's just you, and now it's like all right, let's see if we got what it takes.

Speaker 2: 1:02:06

But yeah, that's why we carry 600 plus rounds and we had, you know, 10 to 12 rounds for our frag grenades. Yeah, 10 to 12 rounds for the M79 that we saw it off, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:02:20

Talk about my favorite weapon system.

Speaker 2: 1:02:23

Yes, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:02:30

We would do. We would do it a little bit of what we like to call it shake and bake, and for legal reasons we won't say what the other rounds were besides the high explosives Right.

Speaker 2: 1:02:43

But we always carry the CES round. Yes, great contact.

Speaker 1: 1:02:47

Yes, yes, highly effective. I would walk in and I remember just dumping. I mean, if we're prepping the objective, I mean you get good and fast. I had my front vandal of the year. I had fashioned these bungee straps and just had my entire front, just all right, I would just go through that and then had a little side satchel and a belt, so it was just like at any given mission. That was the primary thing, because I'm keeping you at bay, I am. And it got to the point where it's like how many can I carry? How many can I carry? How many more can I carry? Because it's a good thing to keep people at bay with us.

Speaker 2: 1:03:35

Oh yeah. And then you had the fleshed out rounds or the buckshot rounds, if they got two, yeah, between magazine changes?

Speaker 1: 1:03:45

Yeah, we would. I was notorious. I took off because ours the you know, the M79 thumper was beautiful. But we ended up having the M320s and the first thing I took off mine was buttstock. I put a bungee on it, had it secured and off to the side, so all I had to do was just pull out, hold tension and just shoot. And then, you know, ours kicked out to the side. So shoot, kick out to the side, dump another one and just I would just be walking and just dumping, just going through rounds as much as I could. Just waiting, just waiting for my team started to be like all right, chief, you're good, we're good. Yeah, shout out to Micah. Oh yeah, airborne For sure. Now, those will always have a special place in my heart. I don't know how I can get a hold of one legally, or maybe illegally later on down the road, but I like to have one framed. Oh yeah, me too. That's one of my pictures.

Speaker 2: 1:04:53

We had a picture on a range where we're firing one and you can clearly see just how much we had cut it down.

Speaker 1: 1:04:59

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's man Such a good weapon and it's it's the testimates. It continued. It continued to be utilized within soft. I mean there's pictures of guys currently that still have them on the the, the Henry seat. They're still in service. Oh yeah, just cut down. Yeah, trimmed a little bit, just a little bit. Got to customize it.

Speaker 2: 1:05:29

You got to. You got to keep enough on the handle to hold it because still had a kick to it.

Speaker 1: 1:05:35

Oh man, what were some more of your cause? That's one thing that that also fascinates me about our, our green brain genuity. We get kit and we customized a shit out of it, even if it's not not to Uncle Sam's liking.

Speaker 2: 1:05:56

Well we had gotten now I wasn't smart enough to think about this. But we had guys after me that modified their RPDs Cause they liked the RPD better than the M 60 and they cut the barrel down and again they may have cut the stock down, but it was. It was trimmed and a Eldon barge Well, eldon and I were E fours together at through buying 68, but he stayed in for almost 40 years. We tires a two star, also Holy cow, and he earned a DSC during a second tour duty and strapped over around, hit him in the face and went through his cheek and it came out the other side and he had his RPD and he gave his team cover fire when everybody got to the the last helicopter to get out of the target and there's a statue of Eldon. Now, back in his home state of Washington he's carrying his sawed off RPD. That's really cool.

Speaker 1: 1:06:57

Yeah, battlefield engineering and ingenuity is some of my favorite things is we see in the uniforms, we see it in in everything that, because it's you have to be able to tailor things for the reality of war. But yeah, it doesn't work. If it doesn't make sense, make it make sense.

Speaker 2: 1:07:17

Sure, even like we had our uniforms, so we had extra pockets stitched in here. Yeah, one each on the arms. Now, most of the combat gear all has extra pockets. Yep, we took that from you guys.

Speaker 1: 1:07:34

My first SF deployment. We didn't. We didn't do the cries, we didn't do our Patagonias. A lot of us bought our own BDUs because we were looking at who we're going to be working with and that's what our, our commanders were wearing, and the first thing we did was go down to the sew shop and do the pockets here, pockets here, and it was just like dude, like we're really doing it. This is the green beret thing. Indeed, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:08:06

We had a little tailor on base. You know the tailor would come in and do his fine work. Man, yeah, absolutely. Well then then we also don't forget we had. We went through the whole thing about jungle extractions. At first it was just 150 foot piece of rope with a sand bag on it to get through the jungle, and then a D ring. And then we wore a Swiss seat hooked in with a D ring to the D ring. Then you have one on your harness to hook in, so if you got shot, at least you stay on the rope. And then eventually they came out with a McGuire ring which was like a leather strap with a handhook. Yeah, so we had guys that got shot or were all unconscious and they came out with that hook just keeping them alive. And then they finally came out with a stable rig Yep, part of the web gear that you guys have modified further since. Yeah, that's the whole extraction. That was part of their, one of the pioneering efforts.

Speaker 1: 1:09:09

You know, yeah, and it's still. It's still something that we train with and do to this day. It's one of those things that you see in the movies, you see in the green berets, and then when you finally get to do it on the team, you're like, oh shit, like this, is this green beret stuff?

Speaker 2: 1:09:27

I repelled into a couple of targets. The first time I repelled into a target, it's like holy shit, this is just like where's Sean Wayne man, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:09:40

Yeah, it's, it's. It's one of the beautiful things that connects all of us and I hope that the next generation is able to look back and see that lineage, because it's in the training, it's in everything we do and in those little moments of awe you get to realize like wow, like I'm, I'm getting to do what my heroes got to do, I'm getting to do what these legends got to do. Like holy shit, like this is cool and it's highly uncomfortable. The stable rig does not feel good.

Speaker 2: 1:10:09

No, no, you know, and in my case I I never bothered. I came back from a second tour duty and they had that. I remember one of the guys complaining just like you just said. I'll keep my old Swiss seat. Yeah, and we wound up using it a couple of times. But something about putting that Swiss seat on in the middle of a firefight is just kind of complicated, it takes a little bit extra time.

Speaker 1: 1:10:34

Yeah so, john, thank you so much for coming on here today. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. The work that you do not only just writing and keeping the history alive and sharing your experience with us and non-service members and serving members alike is vital. It's what's going to keep the next generation of Americans wondering if they got what it takes. I mean, more people are willing to take that that deep dive into becoming green brains.

Speaker 2: 1:11:06

Well, I got good news for you. I mean one of the things. Well, there's two things. First of all, thanks to Jaco Willink, the Navy SEAL podcaster out of San Diego. I mean, I've done eight interviews with Jaco over time and he's done more to get our special forces SOG history to a new generation than anybody in the army. And that said, I've had the privilege of going to special forces graduations over the last couple of years and these guys, they're still Americans that stepped up to the plate.

Speaker 2: 1:11:42

They're young, they're smarter than I ever was, that's for sure, and these young men are really dedicated. And then I've been over to a Delta force, to headquarters, met some of these folks and they're amazing. So we ended up being down to Marsock, you know, been down to some Marine Corps people there and what they're doing with the training, and that's impressive. And then last year Jim Shorten Jones and I visited the Air Force Special Operations Command. We went in and talked to PJs and those JTACs oh yeah, and that was a kick in the ass, get to meet these guys. And they flipped out because here's Jim. Yeah, I'm a fellow PJ. I was really cool.

Speaker 2: 1:12:30

Actually when he was a PJ, he was. They flew missions during the St Helens eruptions oh wow, you know. And they asked, and saving people there. Oh yes, crazy stuff, man, that's nuts. Before he became a radiologist.

Speaker 2: 1:12:49

That's life, well lived Indeed oh yeah, yeah, One of my heroes, for sure, and I like that. Those are some of the things that. And then we got the saw cast that again, Jaco Willink has supported me in doing these saw cast. So we've we've recorded 45 now and when they first get posted they go up on Spotify and Apple as an audio podcast and then later they go up on a YouTube. So right now we've got 23 posted on YouTube and then we've got they just posted. Right before Christmas they posted number 40, which was a King Bee pilot yeah, Captain Dewong and the stories. And again he, he had a little time in a reeducation camp, survived it, got out, came to America, went to work. You know all those are Vietnamese allies, that, the auto ones I've ever talked to, all the ones that they came here. All their kids have masters or doctorate degrees and they all came and participated in America. They didn't come with their hand out. No, they can't come to go to work.

Speaker 1: 1:14:04

They wanted the American dream. That's exactly what they work, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:14:08

Yeah, that's why it's a critical difference. And even the Afghanis that have escaped and now they're here, they're adjusting and a nonprofit. While I used to work with the veterans association I mean the veterans affordable housing program up in Orange County and California they have the different mobile home parks and they've got two now they're dedicated to the Afghanis. That's awesome. Now we're allies. They've hired an Afghani interpreter and he's had said he served with different A teams throughout Afghanistan. He had at least four or five letters of testimony supporting him, endorsing him, and so he works. He's vetting the Afghans coming in. That's great. That's the kind of thing that's called. It's really cool, absolutely To see that.

Speaker 1: 1:14:59

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Real American stories right there, airborne Well, john, thank you so much for being with me today. Again, brother, I appreciate you. I can't wait for this next book, brother, and I know it's going to be good and I'm going to bug you again to come back on the show Like a bad dream.

Speaker 2: 1:15:16

I'm glad to come back.

Speaker 1: 1:15:22

Very lovely brother Time, sir. Yes sir, we'll take it easy, all right, god bless, thank you. Thank you, if you like what we're doing and you enjoying the show, don't forget to share us. Like us, subscribe and head on over to our Patreon, where you can be part of our community and get access to all of our episodes as soon as they drop. And remember we get through this together, take care.