When life knocks you down, what's your next move? Mark Greene, a former US Navy SEAL, joins us to share his wisdom on resilience and turning failure into a catalyst for growth. Drawing from the unforgiving forge of military training, our conversation cuts deep into the heart of perseverance, where setbacks are the stepping stones to success. Mark's stories from the frontlines are more than just tales of valor; they're lessons in grit that resonate whether you're in a boardroom or facing personal trials.
If you enjoy our content, sign up for our Patreon and get access to additional content, bonus episodes, and access each episode before they drop on Spotify or iTunes.
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We greatly appreciate you and your support, so please remember to LIKE, FOLLOW, SHARE, and SUBSCRIBE!
Make sure that you follow Mark on Instagram and be sure to buy his new book, all of which are listed below! Connect with Mark on LinkedIn too!
LinkedIn : Mark Greene
Instagram: @themarkgreene
Click here to buy his book: UnSEALed: A Navy Seal’s Guide to Mastering Life’s Transitions
Website: themarkgreene.com
Produced by Security Halt Media
When life knocks you down, what's your next move? Mark Greene, a former US Navy SEAL, joins us to share his wisdom on resilience and turning failure into a catalyst for growth. Drawing from the unforgiving forge of military training, our conversation cuts deep into the heart of perseverance, where setbacks are the stepping stones to success. Mark's stories from the frontlines are more than just tales of valor; they're lessons in grit that resonate whether you're in a boardroom or facing personal trials.
If you enjoy our content, sign up for our Patreon and get access to additional content, bonus episodes, and access each episode before they drop on Spotify or iTunes.
Patreon: securityhaltpodcast
Instagram: @securityhalt
X : @SecurityHalt
Tik Tok: @security.halt.pod
We greatly appreciate you and your support, so please remember to LIKE, FOLLOW, SHARE, and SUBSCRIBE!
Make sure that you follow Mark on Instagram and be sure to buy his new book, all of which are listed below! Connect with Mark on LinkedIn too!
LinkedIn : Mark Greene
Instagram: @themarkgreene
Click here to buy his book: UnSEALed: A Navy Seal’s Guide to Mastering Life’s Transitions
Website: themarkgreene.com
Produced by Security Halt Media
Security Hub Podcast. Let's go. I'm sure you're dealing with an expert in the role of warfare, With a man who's the best With guns, with knives with his bare hands A man who's been trained to ignore, ignore weather, to live off the land.
Speaker 2:A job was disposed of enemy personnel To kill period.
Speaker 1:Win by attrition.
Speaker 1:There we go. I always like to start off, just record it and then kind of naturally segue into like the whole introduction. Dude, thank you so much for being here. I'm always looking for individuals to have real, authentic stories. Our civilian counterparts and even some of our military members think that success is something that just happened. Naturally, you always succeed. You always have a great plan of action and always execute it flawlessly. That's the way the world works and that's not the truth. A lot of us have tasted failure, and not just once, but multiple times.
Speaker 1:Resilience is being able to build up on those failures, being able to succeed again, being able to get back up, dust yourself off. That's why I really think your story needs to be amplified and more people need to hear it. The reality is the reason why we're able to accomplish such great things as soft professionals, because we're intimately with how failure feels, whether it's on the field, as an athlete or during a mission. Being able to bounce back. That's something that our brothers and sisters on the outside are kind of losing, that the work culture doesn't really embrace the ability to like hey, get back up. The report didn't go well, the board meeting you didn't do well in that project.
Speaker 1:I'm seeing it now, being able to go and speak at events and people realize how is it that you're able to fail? How do we rebuild that in that culture? I'm like holy cow, we guys, we need to bring it in. We need to talk about this. It's not about just losing steam. If you fail, it's like all right, do it again. Don't just crucify the people. If they fail once, get rid of them. Give them the ability to adapt and recover and then try again. Give them another big shot, another opportunity, because that's how all of us were able to make it in the teams. So thank you for being here, brother.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And when I go speak at the students at USC, for one of the first things I tell them is like, hey, give yourself permission to fail. And they look around and they're just like, I mean, they're all high achievers, right Academic. And it's like, hey, you're going to screw this up. No, I was like I won't fail. I'm like brother, you're going to just get ugly. Sometimes You're going to feel incompetent, like consciously incompetent. Sometimes I feel when I'm starting something new, which means I suck and I know it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but there's a beauty in that it's under, because otherwise you're just that guy. That's just like I'm perfect, there's no way I can fail. It's like, no, going back to school, that's a, that's a scary thing to do. And it's like, well, wait a second. Like okay, I don't know everything, I'm going to stumble, I'm going to have to find resources, but, like I've been here before, I've been a beginner, I've been a beginner before, being a constant student is a great approach to life and kind of forget to go back to that mentality and it's not really promoted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was a. I think that was one of the best wake up calls for me is because, you know, I was active duty, I got to go to grad school and earn an MBA and then I was like, yeah, grad school stuff's not so bad. And then I went to a top 20 university and I was like oh okay, this is never, it.
Speaker 1:Okay, here's that curve.
Speaker 2:I get it. This is hard.
Speaker 1:Well, mark Green, welcome to security podcast. Today. It's all about you, my man. It's all about you and sharing your story, as our audience from Patreon has been able to hear sort of like the beginning ramblings and beginning introduction talks. Mark, you're somebody that has succeeded and failed and succeeded again and live to succeed, and your story helps us understand that, even if we fall down, we still have the opportunity and the commitment to get back up and try again. So thank you for being here, brother. I appreciate you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And you know, I think it's because, in order for us to succeed at a high level, somebody's always better. You're always failing and the expectation is to well, hey, stupid, get up and do it again. That's so true, yeah, and generation I came from, my grandfathers were like put some, put some dirt on it, and not finishing something was not even an option, and no matter how you felt like, oh boy, get on up, what are you doing? Yeah, you look at the view, for you know so, yeah. So I took that mentality. Luckily, my upbringing introduced that really early and first, nine years old, getting ready to play my first go to my first football practice, and I was like dad, this is, this is football. And he's like we're gonna have our first talk. He's like in the green family, once we start something, you're finishing it. Yeah, I don't care what happens broken leg, broken, whatever Unless you're unable, like as in on your deathbed, you're finishing what you started.
Speaker 2:So, sometimes I start stuff that I don't want to do just because, once I started, I'm committed to it. Yeah, so. So when I embarked on my journey into the SEAL community, once I showed up at the training center, the hey, you're gonna, you're gonna quit. Didn't even cross my mind. I knew I was overwhelmed. When I got there I was like gosh, this is bad.
Speaker 1:I think that's everybody, regardless of whatever, whether you're going to, you know, trying to become a Marsock Raider, green Beret, navy SEAL or joining rager regiment. Once you show up like you have to have that attitude of like all right, like the only way out of this is through a body bag. Yeah, like it's not. It's not, it's not gonna be me that makes that decision. Somebody else is gonna tell me that I don't belong here. I'm gonna keep going until there's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Sometimes people, if you show up for the next morning, they're like God. What are you still doing here? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, making you feel like ah, fuck man, like completely take the air out of your sails.
Speaker 2:Vip around Rob Schneider and big water boy like ah, we suck again.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I feel like felt sometimes, but but I mean I always had, I always figured out a way to maximize the good and and and what I was going through be at. Yeah, I mean I was like I'm not gonna go hell week being a parent, you know, everything's just like. Mother didn't totally suck, you know.
Speaker 1:There's some good in there, yeah, but it's. I want to go back to the sports because that's something that I feel a lot of us that have been successful we can connect back to those early days of practice, of putting in the work, of doing the hard things that not a lot of people wanted to do. It's not hard to you know, get up at four AM as a teenager, to like get to practice, to do the extra work. When you look back at life, all those lessons, can you trace it all back to sports. Like where was that first? Like no quit attitude being cultivated in you, obviously fathers, but where else?
Speaker 2:So fathers, and you know I had so many men in my in my life. You know my dad was around my whole time at grandfathers, uncles, there's men everywhere and they just held your feet to the fire and if you messed up, you know, back in back in the day you can little capital pun. Yeah, you know, a little tune up, dude. I'm so glad you said that I just like your tune up was. You know that that that was real.
Speaker 1:You know I've. You know it's all anecdotal, this is just me gathering information from having these great authentic talks with individuals. But for those of us that didn't have that positive male role model or or multiple male role models in our lives, we had to like figure that out and look for it elsewhere. And one of the key figures that you find that in were coaches. Yeah, now, if you didn't have it at home, if the person, if, if A there wasn't a dad and B like, or the person at home that is the father figure, is not a good figure at all, yeah, you still, you at least had the coaches.
Speaker 1:And we're living in a day where you know we promote the idea that men are necessary, the fathers are unnecessary. But I'm like, no, I know a lot of good teammates who did come from good homes that did have real father figures and that was a different individual, that was a different beast. Like, we all succeeded, we all crushed things, but they had a frame or reference of what that standard was and it's the rest of us were trying to like, just figure it out, like maybe we looked up the squad leader and we had that coach. That was just always good. So that's definitely like. One of the positive things from your story is like the understanding that, like dude, fathers make a difference. Uncles, grandfathers positive male role models are needed.
Speaker 2:The scariest thing I've ever heard when I was young is like wait till your father gets home. And he's like, oh, and then that's your grandfather tuned you up. You know you're like man. I heard that one, you know.
Speaker 1:And you earned it.
Speaker 2:So once it pops out of, it's like yeah, I get it. But the thing about that was the consistency of it. Yeah Right, like my dad, even though he was in Air Force, he got home same time every day. I'm a little bit grumpy, so, you know, we had to give dad a space and once he settled in I'm thinking it's fine. But just when he walks in the door it's just like all right, dad's home and yeah, just make sure everything's squared away, you know so chores are done, homework's done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that was it and it was more of a community, like even teachers. There are a lot more male teachers than when we were young and, yeah, it was just a lot of influence. So it was really not wanting to disappoint people who were lied on you and as a kid my dad relied on me to be a good kid, you know, and that really went a long way just having the dad around. But I didn't know it at the time. It was just like, ah, dad again.
Speaker 1:But as I got older and had my own kids.
Speaker 2:I was like okay, I get it, we get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's one of the things with, like, some of the most important lessons in life. In the moment you don't realize that you're living something that's going to be so crucial and so essential to how you function as an adult, you're just like, oh gosh, don't upset dad or man, like he's really harping on me. And then later on in life you realize oh wait, a second, this is important, this is vital. Men, without this, go their entire life searching for it and reading books about it. And you had it at home.
Speaker 2:And it was just that. You know that consistency. And the coolest thing was my dad never missed a practice, never missed a game and as whatever sporting event, and he sat in the same place every time. So all I had to do was look up and say, okay no, I saw on, there was just like okay, everything's good Pops is here, you know, and as I had my own kids I always had a red hat, nice.
Speaker 2:So whenever I went to a sporting event, red hat came on. So, and just to watch my kids searching around and these see the red hat and you just watch them play, okay, that's here, everything's good. And I never tried to never miss a practice and try not to miss games. And you know, with our, with our job and off tempo, you're not going to be able to make everything, but my kids always remember red hat.
Speaker 1:Dude, that's powerful.
Speaker 2:Always, always a red hat.
Speaker 1:Damn. What was it like telling your dad about how much of an impact that was?
Speaker 2:I didn't get a chance because he died really. He died really young, oh no, and like fathers and sons, you know you have a riff. That happens. Yeah, don't understand the decision making process and piss each other off and all of a sudden you're on your third deployment and haven't really sat down and talked with pops for a while. But as he was, you know, his cancer came back and it was terminal and I was teaching at the sniper school. I'm from Ohio and the sniper school at Indiana.
Speaker 2:So as he was, you know, terminal, I could just drive home instead of driving 12 hours from Virginia. I could stop in the car on Friday night after work and go hang out with dad for the weekend. And it just, you know, you had to make a conscious decision Like am I going to hold on to this or am I going to say, hey, you know what, I don't have to lay, I'm literally on the clock and every time I came home we looked worse and I just made that decision. It's like, hey, man, this is not worth it because you know, you're, you only have six months left with them. And then, all of a sudden, you have five months left and then you're in the room when he passes. So I got a chance to reconnect and redeem that relationship.
Speaker 2:But one of the coolest things about as my father was terminal lost his leg, multiple complications, the cancer was just eating up as he went up right. I never heard the man complain once, not one time. Damn, he did not feel so. I mean I'm sure he felt sorry for him, but it never, it never showed.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I was just like well, okay, well, and then that taught me is at 30 something. I was like if he's going through this and he's not going to complain, so guess, guess what you don't get to complain about my TPS reports not being done.
Speaker 1:Your DTS was screwed up.
Speaker 2:I got to come back and fix it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, All right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was a different era of man and I've talked to a lot of guys that did have those, those father figures that were rough cut men, that you knew they loved you, you knew that they cared for you, they were hard, they were disciplined. They didn't complain about pain and then complain about the inconvenience of having to work those long shifts. They knew the benefit of bringing that money, of providing for their sons, for their daughters, for their, their family, and that's something that we're losing. We're losing that era of strong men and we ourselves, military members, we can help bring that out at other people by engaging, by talking about what it means to persevere, what it means to be resilient, because sometimes you just have to and look, I'm a big champion of mental health. That's one of the main pillars of this show.
Speaker 1:But when it comes to doing the work, you have to. You have to boot up, lace up, find your grit and get it done and do it and be okay with it. It's not going to be pretty. Not all of us are going to be able to have that ability to whine and complain because, hey, guess what the mission is? Feed your kids, put food on the table. That's what you got to do. You got to be able to get up and do the work. And we're, we're, we're losing those men, we're losing that, that grit. But that's something that we can teach, we can coach that it's. It's something we can bring.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know it's and the kids are not in those formative years, not getting that. Yeah. So if we, if we reach them, you know we're reaching them from infancy. Basically at a teenager or a young adult, this is the first time they could add a consistent father figure or strong man and just they're in shock a lot of times. Yeah, but it's appreciated.
Speaker 2:You know my grandfather, just a huge man, right, and he didn't say a whole lot and when he was he had his throne in the front room. So if he was in there, like we didn't make eye contact, we just ran right down. Yeah, so when he sat me down to want me to play baseball, like boy, come over here. So I sat down, I didn't even think the guy liked me, you know, but I found out that he was on, but he was. He was a really good guy, but he was just, he's just an old salt, you know, but his pride was, so he was. He had so much pride internally and he just knew he just had to be the hammer sometimes. Yeah, but once you got past that like hard outer shell, it was just a big old goo on the floor.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's all of us. That's all of us have yet to meet a soft, professional or even in. You know the MOS's are going out there to fight infantry guys. We're all the same. You go through a hellacious firefight or going through a village and then you see a kid and instantly you see the humanity in every single one of the hardest dudes ever, the most bearded up, tattooed guys. You put them in a situation where a little kid that has nothing comes up to them and tugs on their jacket or pants, leave and like wants a little bit of something to eat or some food. All of them just crumble in. They're just as soft as individuals and that's something that people harp on.
Speaker 1:Toxic masculinity like no. Masculinity is a powerful thing, yeah, and it is something that we need to celebrate, because masculinity also, there's also a part of it that says, okay, I can be kind, I can be generous, I can be helpful. It's not about just, you know, laying down hate and shooting machine guns and getting into firefights. No, there's a component of masculinity that says, hey, I can be kind, I can take care of others, I can take care of those that are weak and need defending, and that's a beautiful aspect of seeing those strong male figures in your life. When they are able to show that kindness and playfulness, you're like, oh, that's, that's being a man. That's part of it too.
Speaker 2:One of the coolest things I remember seeing was old school boxers. Right, I mean, they just beat each other for 15 rounds and at the end of it, hey, let's hug it out. That was a good fight, yeah. And the first time I saw it was like, well, that doesn't make sense. You guys are just trying to beat the hell out of each other.
Speaker 1:And then at the end of it it was like hey, man, it's a good fight, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then and then watching MMA, now it's a different level of fighting and all the build up and I mean they're just getting after it and then, after the fight, so much respect between men. So when you know, when the whole toxic masculinity trope came about, I'm like I don't, I don't, it's, it's, it's a conversation stopper. Yes, you know it's, and it's like I hate the whole racism points because that just stops the conversation. Like, well, you're a racist. And then the defense is everybody's on defense and you stop talking. Yeah, so you know.
Speaker 2:So when I hear stuff like that, I'm like, well, I'm willing to have a conversation about anything. Yeah, I mean I'd agree with you. But I think the masculine thing is like okay, we may not agree and we may argue with each other, but at the end of it, you know, you just know hard feeling in my chief. When I did my officer of charge, he and I didn't agree a lot and behind closed doors we'd, you know, we'd get pretty heated, yeah, but at the end it was like, all right, man, let's hug it out.
Speaker 2:And then, and then yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's so true. Yeah, yeah, like we've lost, we're losing. I don't think we've lost it completely. We're losing the ability to engage in civil discourse in open forums, like, if you try to do it on social media, it doesn't work. If you bring a counterpoint, people are just like, well, well, you're a racist. Well, actually, I'm an immigrant, I'm Panamanian, so I mean, like I win this in your rules, with your rules, I win.
Speaker 1:But it's one of those things where people don't want to have the conversations and just understand that we can can disagree. Yeah, we can have, we can have understandings. We don't have to be at each other's throats. But you're right that as soon as that oh, it's talk to masculine, I'm like no, because masculinity has saved thousands and thousands and thousands of lives. It's a reason why that firefighter runs into that fire to save people. It's the reason why a lot of us do stupid gunhole things in the middle of a firefight, just for that 1% chance that we'll get it right and we'll be able to save somebody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's, it's, it's needed.
Speaker 1:It's one of those things where it's if, when you learn it from a family figure, it's the most beautiful thing that you can hope for, and that's why we have to champion, like being able to make dads great again.
Speaker 1:It gets such an important role. Yeah, it's like our roles of being professionals don't just end when we hang up the uniform, when we leave the teams, when we leave regiment. No, now you get to be the leader of your home 100%. You get to be the man that's around and you get to teach all the great things that you learned, because you know you might not need to teach your kids how to be members of an effective fire team, but all the responsibility, all the things that you learn on how to be a great, effective leader, pass it down to your kids, to your community, to the people that live around you. Like those are still viable things that need to be taught and they're just kind of not around. I've noticed it, I've seen it and all it takes is just being able to engage with your everyday community member and it's just being able to have that discourse, just kind of like, like I said, it's not vanished but it's going away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the way I try to teach my kids is through example, right? So you know, four days a week I go to the gym, 40s a week. Do yoga on Saturdays or I'll be pissed off. I was like Dad, what's the matter? You want to cleanse? And he's like, why are you doing that? I just need, I need to infuse some discipline just to get back on track. So then my kids are like, oh, dad's going to the gym, even though he's limping around, he's going to get it done, or he wakes up the same time every day just because, and as soon as they walk through the door, it's like magic. I'm so happy to see my kids every day. Yeah, you know, and but it's the inconsistent. They know what they're going to get with Dad every time he shows up. And so then you know it's like, hey, what time is it? What time are you supposed to be home?
Speaker 2:Okay, no, no, this is also like my daughter, you know, overdrank when she was too young and living in Germany, yeah, and just absolutely miserable, right and tears and stuff, my exes yelling at her and stuff, and so I'd knock on the door and walk in. I was like, hey, what is it? I was like, do you learn something? She's like, yeah. I was like, what else am I going to teach her? Yeah, perfect lesson. Yeah, that pain and suffering is going to do much more than anything.
Speaker 1:I could do. I was like yeah, and she just suffered through.
Speaker 1:I was like all right, lesson learned. Oh man, now MBAs are something that are championed through the military, especially in the soft community, and I think for a lot of us that you can seem really daunting. When you took up that challenge, how was it for you? Did you think immediately like okay, like this is going to be easy. And then to follow that up with more school, like how did you first like what was the catalyst for it and how was it when you were actually going through it?
Speaker 2:Okay, so I was pretty much up. Temple was 97 until, oh, 97.07 was pretty much nonstop, yeah, and I was like I'm going to talk to the detailer, the people who give us our next jobs. I was like Margaret, I need a break.
Speaker 2:I was like I heard there's this graduate program you can go to. She said, oh yeah, don't be great. So I was going to go to the kumbaya course the solid course, right, and you know read and kumbaya with my fellow soft brothers. And she said, well, how many kids do you have? I was like I have three. I really need to connect with them. She's like, okay, well, I'm going to send you to get your MBA. No, no, no, no, no, you're not.
Speaker 1:I was like I thought you had a talent.
Speaker 2:What are you talking about? There's a gap. I was like I'm not doing that.
Speaker 1:So it wasn't something you embraced with an open arms.
Speaker 2:She said well, I want you to have a job to take care of all those damn kids, so the best thing to do is send you to get your MBA. And it was like a non-negotiable. So and I pleaded with her, like, please. She's like honey, I've already put it in, You're done.
Speaker 2:I was just like oh, this ship's sail, I show up, and I was always. I was never good at the garbage in garbage out of academia because I could never figure out what was important. So everything was important. So I really struggled. But I'm like, okay, I have to dedicate time to like learn this stuff at the graduate level, because economics and statistics and all the stuff of business, learning it for the first time at that level, I was just like I was just trying to tread water to stay above my head above, but I would bug. All the professors went to all the office hours and I'm like, okay, how do I figure this thing out? And so slowly I made it through the garbage in garbage. I wish I had to have the curriculum. But the second was analytics. Right, you get a case study and you just have to analyze it and pick it apart and come up with a solution, which in our community we do all the time.
Speaker 2:So once Wargaming it yeah, so once it came to that I really thrived and but it sucked. The first nine months of that 18 month course I was like bro yeah, but then I just it's.
Speaker 1:It's not an easy thing from everybody that I've talked to it. It's not something that you can just kick. Walk in. The military schools already do a really good job of showing you what it's like to go through. You know a fire hose session every school you will go to. If there's academics involved, it's like a sprint and it's just data dump every single day.
Speaker 1:And it's just like, oh my God, but now you're doing it with individuals that have a master's degree in just throwing data and information at you nonstop, but you got to decide for it all in such a fast rate Like that's insane, yeah.
Speaker 2:So with grad school, it's really of it's a, it's a networking event. So you come in with this cohort, you do everything as a team and you learn the language of business and you learn. You don't have to learn leadership Park, as we already had that. So now you're just learning how to. Okay, how do I speak this language? And if somebody says X, y, z and the business world, I know what that means. Yeah, right, so I have the basics of every aspect of business and then it's just, it's just a selection course really, and it's what you have to do to kind of pay your dues to you know, climb the corporate ladder, because corporations are set up or the military set up as a, as a corporation really doesn't have to pass audits.
Speaker 1:But we're seeing that now. I mean, well, we should, we should clarify we, we have to pass, but you know the in general?
Speaker 2:No, no, really what it is. So after you get out and you start to climb the military corporate ladder like, hey, I went to a name post graduate school with Dave and I need a favor. And he just reached out to hey, Dave, we were in the same cohort and it's just like your, your class you graduated with. Somebody can call me from 20 years ago and said, hey, mark, it's so and so from 212, I need a favor. I'm like, ah, I got a guy you know. So it just broadens your, broadens your aperture to 16 down the business world. So, but realistic, you're taking one class in every discipline, so you're not really a master at anything. But the capstone is to do a thesis. So I flunked out of college the first time and struggled through the first parts of grad school. I ended up getting an outstanding thesis award.
Speaker 1:No way yeah.
Speaker 2:So all that it's awesome. Yeah, so it's just, I just dug in and said, all right, I'm going to suck at this, at parts of it, but some parts I'm going to excel at, and then take lessons learned from what you're struggling with and then refine that as you move forward. So then by the end of it you're this kind of full fledged student who you can really think through problems and do things that you didn't think before. And I think as a, as a soft community, we have an advantage of that, because bread and butter is just to kind of figure it out. Yeah, and you know, you take the case, study or situation and as you enter the house or the room or whatever you're doing you know Mike Tyson said it best it's like everyone's got a plan to punch in the face.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Then you have to improvise, then you have to adapt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're doing analytics all the time, so when?
Speaker 2:it came to that part, I could really incorporate it. But then I just kind of found my leadership style through my enlisted time and then Officer Candidate School and then leading my own group of guys. So by the time I got to my officer in charge I had my process down and I knew what I wanted to achieve and it really just came down to take care of your guys and, as the officer you know, hated like you're not supposed to take care of the enlisted, like okay, yes, sir.
Speaker 2:And you know, salute and yes, sir, it won't happen again. And then, yeah, we're doing it.
Speaker 1:It's something, changes something. I remember when I've made the decision to become a warrant officer. It wasn't because like, oh yeah, I'm looking to just make a career out of this, I'm going to make money. It's like it's really don't actually fun fact. You take a pay cut for that first year and they will tell you there's a bonus Bonus. Never comes, it never gets there.
Speaker 1:But you become a leader in soft because you want to take care of the guys, because you either see a leader that made it an impression on you and you realize, like, I want to be like that guy.
Speaker 1:What he did for the team, I want to be able to replicate it. And then when you get there, you realize that the human factor is the most important thing in soft. Every forget every other attribute, especially right now, doesn't money. The money doesn't matter. The high tech doesn't matter, the sexy missions none of that matters. What matters are the human beings in that room that will look up to you and say, like that's my leader. Like when you have that responsibility, you just want to make sure that the guys that are there get the best training, get put in the best position to succeed In their mission, and then that's ultimately what you? You get that satisfaction from when it's all said and done, after the long hours of doing con ops and all the horrible administrative tours, like when you look back and you realize, okay, they're all, those guys are successful in their mission, they're successful in their training and they all, they're all going home, their families, okay, job well done.
Speaker 2:You know the best lesson I? I learned leadership wise, and then I didn't pay attention to this before. My first officer in charge was a prior enlisted guy, and once I told him I was going to be an officer, he's like best lesson I've ever gotten is his leadership. It's like once your guys stop coming to you with their problems, then you're failing as a leader. I was like, huh, I never even thought about that, but he had a constant line of sir, this is what's going on and this is what's happening. But the leadership that wasn't as strong never went to those guys with their problems.
Speaker 2:Yep, so I always open myself up to my guys. It was always available and it was just a constant stream. Hey, mark, I got this going on. And as long as they were coming to me and trusting me with their life, you know not only their actions, but they were always going to be successful Not only their actual life, but their personal life and some of the things they're down through, then I was succeeding. So throughout my entire tour to the last day, I walked out of team. Eight guys are still coming to me. I was like, okay, well then I did it right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. It's a powerful thing when you still get contacted because no matter how long you're out, you're still a leader, you're still. You're still carry that with you and if you can continue helping others and still have that mindset of service oriented leadership, you're going to be successful wherever you go Like and that's a that transfers over to every civilian job, every leadership position be of service to the people that you work with. And, man, there, there is a lot of value of learning that in the military these days, whether you're non combat MOS for your support MOS or combat MOS you can learn that leadership ability in the military and it's still there. So if you're a young person looking for direction, looking for mentorship, looking to learn how to be a good leader, the military is always around and I still think it's a viable option. You still think that you should probably choose going into a soft profession.
Speaker 2:That's just my thing.
Speaker 1:So we're always. We're always going to need men of action where it was going to need individuals to fill those roles. And I think, for anybody out there struggling to find themselves, take the challenge, man, take the challenge, whether it's Marsauk, ranger Regiment, seals, green Beret or one sixtieth, bring in that challenge, yeah, go for it. Well, life's short and I I learned how to be a great leader through observing and learning from great leaders and not so great leaders and and I am grateful for those opportunities because you know, you get to see it when it really matters, and there's there's nothing like good leadership in a firefight. When you see it happen, yeah, when you see good leaders in those, those moments where it matters most, and you're like, okay, I'm going to be like that guy someday.
Speaker 2:I learned so much. I think I learned a lot more from poor leadership, because it was like not going to do that, yeah, that's what it's not to do. So you know, I learned so much from the great leaders and the poor leaders.
Speaker 1:And you know, and the humble leaders, my, my first true senior, because I had a lot of mentorship from other 18 bravos, but the first senior I had was one of those humble leaders Like he. He never boasted about himself, he never talked himself up, he never talked about any of his aspirations, all the moves he was going to make. He always took the time to show you the fundamentals, to always be there with mentorship and guidance. And he said you know, when you're going to become a leader like, there are three things you need to always be looking out for and always trying to achieve. It's like you're not guaranteed to have all three, but you should always be trying for all three.
Speaker 1:And I was like that was different, because every other leader that I had was always telling me all these different things to focus on. He's like no man three things tactically proficient, physically fit and administratively like, sound those three things constantly. You may not be blessed with all three right off the bat, but you got to be able to demonstrate that you're owning those three things and like. And he never talked himself as if he was a master of those three, but he was and that was the most beautiful thing about that that man as a senior leader, then you finally get to see it. Shout out to little Bill that man walked like a friggin NFL quarterback anytime he came into the room. Like you just knew, like okay, like shit, like that's my senior, like that's the dude.
Speaker 2:But it was that humble leadership.
Speaker 1:It was just quiet and always had the right thing to say, and I mean, whether it's an administrative thing that I was doing or it's like charge, you know better than that.
Speaker 1:Okay, I got, I got to do right. If Bill's saying I got to do this the right way, that I'm going to follow this. But those are the leaders that stay with you, like the individuals that were humble, but they got it right when it mattered and people didn't even be hovering over his shoulder to get things done or they didn't. He wasn't ever worried about what the man thought or what you know command was gonna like. No, he knew the right things to do and they mattered all the little, tiny things and there's there's a reason why that man was successful and he is where he is today. But I always it always stuck out to me the guys that were always boastful, they always talked about the girl, the great things they did or were going to do I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that Never achieved a fraction of the things they talked about and they weren't even a fraction of how they weren't a fraction of how good they said they were, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it was, it was good and you wouldn't, we would go to our shootings, shooting school. You know there's always somebody who's really, really good and I was never the fastest, right. But and they would try to push me to go fast, like, look, I'm going as fast as I can be effective, right, I'm going to naturally get better. But if, let's say, I push him and rush it, and rush it and I'm throwing shots, all of them not safe, like I was, like I'm, I'm putting rounds on paper where they're supposed to go, I'm making the right calls.
Speaker 2:Am I doing it the fastest? No, but am I able to keep up with with the temple and say ahead of it, yeah. And I was like speed's going to come with more reps, the speed's going to come. But I was really strong on, hey, just stick with the fundamentals and be consistently good fundamentally, and then your skill, your skill sets, going to improve over over time. So by the time we're done with shooting school, you know, my foundation was strong enough to where you know I could hang with with some of the better shooters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that's a testament to like real training, like useful, purposeful training. You're not going out there to train speed, you're going out there to like master fundamentals. Speed will come, yeah, speed will come. But yeah, I can't do anything with a guy if he can't group, if he can't zero. Yeah, those are things like everybody sees a shot timer, that's a first thing. They they are going to go shot time. They're like I'm going to go clear the plates. No, screw that, let's get, let's get you zero. Let's see your grouping, let's see what you're doing to fundamentals, like let's do some of, let's do some basic principle drills, then you work up on speed.
Speaker 1:That's another thing that I saw just beautifully demonstrated by one of my friends Like one of the best coaches I ever seen when it came to drilling and instructing, and the guy had been doing it for me. You know he's one of one of those guys from you know the the more pampered battalion that gets a lot more training and they do more of the sexier missions and they eventually come back to the line teams and eventually come back and watching them teach younger, newer green berets how to work that speed was like a master class, like cause he realized after all those years of constantly doing CQB, constantly training, you developed the proper way to teach someone and before you know it, you got brand new guys. Brand new green berets are just clearing and doing just stress tests or just crushing it. It's like, okay, that's. That's like a fish and water scenario that man knows how to teach. That Like in those professionals, like we're losing them Now we're losing them, that that the those GWAT era professionals, those veterans, are slowly transitioning, like we have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, only old guys yeah.
Speaker 1:Writing books, speaking and sharing with the rest of the world that had to be successful through stress, through times of stress, which I never thought that was something that was needed, till I got out, yeah, till I saw that that's not something that just is organically taught and learned in the corporate world yeah, in normal, everyday America.
Speaker 2:I mean, I was so much and like college football because in high school you're you're a raw town and but you're not refined, because most coaches aren't any good in high school, let's be honest. So I performed my way through high school but then I got to college and then coaching happened, right yeah, and it was I remember it because I played quarterback. So, you know, do do a little play action and I would look back to the running back and I would stay looking backwards and the coach had something through it hit me on the head. He's like what are you looking back there for? I was like the 300 pound guy wants to take your head off in front of you. I was like, oh, wow, nice.
Speaker 1:This might be important.
Speaker 2:It's just a little lessons like that. And the first time I learned football was in college and we were running the scout team. So after, after practice, the coach is like okay, young freshman, you know we're going to run a couple of plays. So the coach, sean, walks up, says okay, mark, we're going to play action, we're going to put the sky in motion. It's going to the corner, is going to step over, the linebackers are going to step over, you're going to do play action. And right in the middle of the field, you're going to throw in this bubble, because everyone's going to clear out of that. And I was like and there's no way that's going to work. So then it happened and all of a sudden it's just like oh, and it was sitting right there and it was so shocking that I took a sack because I was just like holy shit, I just learned football, yeah.
Speaker 1:Wait a second. These other things have an effect on the rest of the players in the field.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know, and from I never forgot that lesson because I realized what I didn't know yeah, right, and there's, there's a, there's a rhyme and reason to everything you're doing. And I learned football in college and that it was crazy. But you know, I realized that you, you have these great high school athletes.
Speaker 2:They go to college and they don't thrive because they can't handle the speed of the game, either the actual foot speed or I mean everybody's fast, right, yeah. So then you just have to be incrementally better. And you know some of the best players in the NFL, or best college players who didn't make it to the NFL for whatever reason, couldn't adjust to the speed of the game or or either in the wrong system or something. So when I see Tom Brady, I was talking to a gentleman who played for the Browns. He was a rookie and Tom had won like his third Super Bowl and Tom had dropped back and this kid was like I got a beat on him. He's like I got him. And he said Tom, step six inches one way. He's like I might as well been in Minnesota.
Speaker 2:He's like I was completely out of the game. I was like no way I could have said the guy just moved six inches.
Speaker 1:And he's just like.
Speaker 2:I'm just not good enough yet. And you know, tom, over the course of time was in the right system and he was consistent and he just studied the game and he knew that that kid was at the wrong angle. He's like I don't know dumb kid over here. Let me just move over six inches. He's just like I was completely. I might as well been in another state, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's. It's been able to observe somebody that has mastered their profession so well that they can observe every single aspect. And there's parallels to it in the military. You see it in planning operations, you see it when you're, when you know you've got a sister team, that's got you know younger, you know detachment commander, younger team sergeant, and maybe they don't have a warrant, and then you see their mission planning like, oh okay, yeah, good luck, good luck with that brief, good luck getting that approved. Like it's not going to, but good luck with that. And all you did to get yours approved was just a single thought Like yep, I'm just going to put this right here, is it? They're going to want to see IO, then they're going to want to see that and that's what's going to get approved. Yeah, being able to witness somebody that knows like every single facet of their craft is just like like holy shit, that's a whole different human being. Like because they're they studied the small basics. They studied the small little aspects that a lot of us forget or we bypass.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, when the tier one guys would come back to us, like you said, they were just a wealth of knowledge and they just saw the battlefield or they saw the situation, yeah, at such a higher level that when they came down to back down to our level, that was, they were just so good at at the basics, yeah, and, and it's just incremental, you know, they were initially they, they, they had the attributes to make it through selection, but then they earned the right to do that job at that level and they just refined in basics, basics, basics and they could go in and do pirouettes and all you know hanging from chandeliers and all the stuff you say in movies.
Speaker 1:But why you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a misconception where people think that you know, they see something on TV and they think, oh, it's just all this tech, all this information, all these gadgets. It's like, dude, you're looking at it, hey, it's TV show. You know the? Those are actors, the real dudes, the real tier one, the cream of the crop, the best of the best. They have mastered the basics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it might look boring when you see an infantry kid doing it where you where it's not sexy to look at calf scouts, not sexy to look at 11 bravos, it's not cool to look at your basic. I'm like there's just no professionals. They're doing the same things that the tier one dudes are masters at. They masterly just repeatedly work through the principles and they add a little more flair and they add a couple new, new techniques, but at the end of the day, they are masters of the basics. When you walk away from that like, then you're negating the what made you the very best at it and you know that's just the basics. The principles are all there and very important to still always understand that the difference between somebody that is a professional in a career field is the same things that maybe you and your friends don't look, look at and find sexy anymore. And that's the basics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I still don't go far past the basics with with anything, be it driving or if I go back to the range, I always start from dry firing. Not sexy, yeah, you know, yeah, not sexy at all. You know you have to refine those things first and make sure you don't lose those, because you can't progress at the right level and be as proficient and efficient the higher you go, unless you have that foundation. So I mean I just, yeah, huge proponent of hey man, just do the basics, and do the basics so well that when they add, add things onto it and things in the South, you're going to revert to your lowest com denominator, which is Exactly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Everybody looks at John Wick and they're like I want to train them. Like, okay, well, for one, that's choreography. You can go dance right now. You can go take a lesson in dancing like that, that'd be great. But if you want to be able to be, you know, well versed and skilled when it comes to farms, you go to the basics, and the same can be applied to any profession. Yeah, it's just understanding that. That's what makes, that's what creates a Tom Brady.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, when I went to grad school for the second time, it was still the same as like, okay, you got to wake up, you got to get into routine, you got to read. You know it's basic stuff, it's just at a higher level and faster. And what I found out? That what differentiated USC from the Naval Postgraduate School was pace and volume. So the pace is fast and they just I was on full blast and you're like all right, what just happened? Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's, that's the uncomfortable questions and I'm like dude, how did you manage that Like? Because I I assumed that the volume and the speed was going to be an issue Like how bad was it in reality?
Speaker 2:So it was worse than it should have been, because so it was if I was just going to school, that would have been one thing.
Speaker 2:But I was in a new city, la, right, no, not user friendly when you first get there. I was in a new profession which I wasn't doing great at because I didn't know what the hell I was doing. Right, and my family was in Virginia and I was commuting back and forth, going through a divorce, and then my TBI and PTS was starting to manifest, so my invisible injuries were starting to take hold and as a team guy, it's like, well, what do we do? We pile on more stuff. So I was like I have a great idea, I'm going to go to grad school.
Speaker 2:It was harder than it should have been, because I was struggling to such a degree that adding that one huge thing was like it was daunting. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's all of us. That's another common thread when it comes to our demographic. It's the last drop in the bucket and then things start to fall apart. But we don't understand what's happening. I didn't even read about operator syndrome until I was already actively in treatment, already getting help, and I stumbled upon the white paper study on it and it made perfect sense. All of us are at such a high op-tempo and constantly under a high stress load. That's what's keeping the bands together like constantly being in stress and working.
Speaker 1:The moment we slowed down and we downshift and for me was when everything came to a stop during COVID, right after we came back from the deployment. That was the perfect mechanism for destruction and for everything to fall apart. Because the analogy that I always use is a race car doing laps and everything's stressed out and all the bearings are shot out. Every gasket's leaking, everything. The moment it pits. You're not starting that puppy back up. It's done, it's done. Everybody that I've talked to through this project has all said the same thing. It was when I finally had a break from train ups, when I finally had a break from deployments. That's when everything started to manifest and I didn't know how to cope with it. So a lot of guys turn to alcohol, they turn to other maladaptive coping devices or they put more stress back on themselves so they can ignore it. Yeah, so you're not alone. That's a common thread I've found.
Speaker 1:We are the worst patients we are the worst patients because we beat the system before and we don't advocate for ourselves. We don't say like, hey, I'm gonna go to the doctors. We lie about everything we've been through because we don't wanna come off a team, we don't wanna come off a rotation. So we're the worst demographic. But also come to find out the best.
Speaker 1:We have all endured TBI throughout the entirety of our course or entire of our train ups, because constantly doing breachings, we're constantly doing work with explosives and you've been concussed through jumps, through training incidents, and you don't go get help. So then you have no other option but to adapt and overcome. If memory, like for me, the biggest thing that started falling apart was my cognitive ability to read, to function like to remember things. So I just started carrying a bunch of notebooks, just started just writing everything out, and then I had a blue book for this, a black book, red red means secret. That gets locked up, chief, like yep. So many times I'd be like where's my red notebook? Holy shit, which one of your assholes took it? And they'd be like chief, you just locked it up. Look, yeah, I know I did that.
Speaker 2:I'm just talking to you guys, you guys got it you guys got it.
Speaker 1:But we all develop things and ways to get around the deficiencies we have in our lives.
Speaker 1:My left eye wasn't even focusing right and I would just cover that up and be like well, okay, so left eye is not working so well, I'll figure out a way to only shoot with my right eye.
Speaker 1:So I'll cover that base with that and then I'll worry about this later on down the road. But so many of us take all those issues that are happening and we just find ways to adapt and overcome them and then by the time we finally go see a doctor, they're like well, normally a person with all these issues and exhibiting all this stuff, we would say like, hey, you're gonna go to hospital, you gotta go inpatient and you gotta stay inpatient for different months and you're gonna have at-home care. But you guys, you defy the system because you just develop frameworks around and scaffolding around the broken parts of your brain to make things happen and be like, yeah, but I still can't read and I'm having trouble figuring out how to get home, driving back home and I can't remember. So can we fix that? What were some of the issues that you were having trouble with?
Speaker 2:So I couldn't. I had the hardest time learning new things. So the information was in here but I just couldn't get it. And if I could finally get it, I couldn't articulate it and I was at my worst. I was at Home Depot and I had a red book this one, some, you know, like I had one book everywhere still. So I had my notebook and I needed to buy blinds for the house because I had to buy a new house because it was divorced now.
Speaker 2:And I'm in Home Depot and I had everything written out. I took the measurements of all the windows and stuff and I'm sitting there and I'm looking at the thing and looking at the bin and I put it in the cart and for some reason I could not make those two things fit and I had to do it 10 times. I think I did it 10 times and I was with my daughter and she, finally, she was out of nature. She was like, okay, something's wrong because I, if she had not been there as a 10-year-old, I'd still be at Home Depot today trying to figure that out, like no, I just I would have grown roots and everything. I just couldn't figure it out. So she got the book and everything was right. So she went and got each thing and grabbed it and I scored to be out of Home Depot. I was still been there. I just could not get that math problem to work.
Speaker 2:And a couple years prior, you know you doing sniper stuff, you're doing a cold board shot at 800 yards, bullet drop, and you know Coriolis effect like oh yeah, high-popping to the square, and you know, and you're just doing it on the fly, but then something as simple as a Home Depot run couldn't do. It, could not do it. So then that was just like, okay, something all right. Finally something's wrong. So luckily I was at a research university and I just went and asked for help. I was like, look, I can't figure this out. Oh, we have a program for that. Go over to the no way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So this is like yeah, we got funny to do this research on traumatic brain injury. We'll put your name on the list. And I just went down each thing until I reached something that fit and I addressed the problem. So I went to the Intrepid Center of Excellence NICO.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. At least I had a starting point. I knew the why, right? Yep, so it was just you're not tenacious enough to beat it at that point. When life slows down, you can't go slow Absolutely, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we. Oh man, I'm so glad you said that because that was my original frame of thought. I can control everything. I'll be damned if something or anyone's gonna tell me that I am limited in my abilities. I can control it, Because that's what the biggest thing I had to get over was the fear that I couldn't control this, that what was happening inside my head was out of my control, Like I didn't want to give up that control and then finally, like when everything went to the absolute worst, and finally sitting in front of that neuropsychologist and like going through those tests which are, if you haven't done them, they're pretty long, it's an all day endeavor and they make you feel really dumb. You're sitting there and I'm like I know I'm not stupid, I am serving at a high echelon of military service. Like I am, I'm a Green Beret. Like I am not.
Speaker 1:Like I am not this dumb, and then finally having that definitive proof where they're still like okay, there's damage there's and then it's like, and that feels like you've been hit multiple times by Carl Weathers Rest in Peace and Mike Tyson.
Speaker 1:Everybody's just taking their shot at just beating you down. And it breaks you down to hear that like I'm not in control of this thing and it sucks. And if you're listening to this and you may have gotten that diagnosis and you may have gone through it, I'm here to tell you that at the moment, in that moment you do have to surrender and say, hey, like I can't go in there and fix that. But you can overcome it when you are willing to advocate for yourself, you're willing to accept that you need help and you're willing to do the work. You're willing to go there every single day, to whatever treatment center you go, to whatever program you enroll in, and you're willing to do the work, because it starts with being willing to go there. But then you have to be willing to do the work. And that's what changed for me, because they can send you to a number of places and you can go to the greatest doctors around. But if you're not willing to do the work, if you're not willing to push yourself and say that I can do this, then ultimately you're not gonna get better. Ultimately you can just sit there and be somebody that identifies with a diagnosis, but just like I'm sitting here able to talk clearly now, because that's something I didn't have for a while just stuttering and, being angry, couldn't find my words, and I'm sure you can attest to it too, mark.
Speaker 1:Once you do the work, once you see the progress, you realize, okay, maybe I won't always be able to know where my phone is or my keys, but I do know how to get home. I do know that I carry an iPad now to take notes and I'm able to bring in half control in my life. But it just takes that ability, understanding that like, hey, this is not gonna knock me down, this isn't gonna be a defining thing that I'm gonna carry on and say like make, this is me, this is who I am, I'm not accepted. But yeah, it's something that definitely sucks when you see it, when your family sees it, because my wife was seeing the struggle and I didn't wanna embrace it at first. I didn't wanna say that like I couldn't control this because I hung in. I was fighting it for a long time, yeah, and you have to.
Speaker 2:Once you find that treatment that works for you, you have to approach it as tenaciously as you did your former life. You have to be relentless on getting better. And it's easy to say you know what, I'll just have another one more drink or I'll do a little more thing. That's not. That will mask what I need to do. I'll self-medicate and I'll be fine, and then all of a sudden, you're in a deeper hole within that one problem to solve. So, if you can, my advice is just keep plugging away. You have everything it takes to get better. Just find what works for you. And this is gonna take some. It's gonna. You're gonna have some misses, you know you're gonna. Somebody's gonna say, hey, go do this one thing, and you do it and you're just like that was the absolute worst thing I've ever done, but then that could lead you to somewhere else.
Speaker 2:And finally, I've had four shoulder surgeries. Both rotators have been repaired and after the second one I was like hey, doc, I do not wanna be on synthetic heroin as I'm recovering. Yeah, I was like, give me two days worth of stuff, but I have to do something else. And he looked at me and he's like, well, yeah, just do yoga. Yoga's better than medicine. Anyway. I was like the fuck out of here, breathe in and have a warrior to get out of here with that.
Speaker 2:So one day I had the opportunity to go to yoga. I was like, fine, happy baby. I was like, yeah, I'm not doing that shit, right, but it was, I do do it on Saturday first thing in the morning and it just resets everything. And I call the guy. I still still in contact with him. I was like, thanks so much for that advice, cause you know, doing my stand in the gym and stuff, that's great. But when my body's pissed off and angry and tight and I'm just frustrated, finishing off the week just doing an hour in the yoga class and just re-centering, it was like that is the best medicine, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Dude, I had the same experience, but it was mindfulness. I went to Intrepid Spirit and again it was on the idea that they were gonna give me something to take away the pain, gonna give me some. Either they're gonna cut something out of me, they're gonna use some laser, they're gonna prescribe me something to get rid of this pain. And I was already angry and I remember. I'll never forget this doctor. It's one of my favorite memories Cause the person I was in that moment, he was just a pissed off, broken and in chronic pain individual that I only identified his life as being a green beret. That's all that. You're not gonna take this from me, you're not gonna take this career from me. You're gonna give me some for pain or you're gonna cut this the area that hurts out of me. And I remember the doctors like, hey, we can do a lot of things, we can address a lot of things, but I need you to understand. We may not be able to do anything for the pain, but I can provide you with a program that will teach you mindfulness, that will help you understand and have a better relationship with pain. And I'm just like what the fuck are you offering me? This is bullshit. I went full from being like yeah, for being like a pretty professional, like ready to receive any sort of help, to a completely like fuck, you cut my feet off. I'm tired of dealing with pain, I'm done. You've got the metal, tink, tinks, I've seen you give it to people, take my feet and give me those. And I just remember leaving there really angry.
Speaker 1:But thankfully I went back and I followed through the treatment. I followed through and all the different modalities that they offered and I was hesitant on mindfulness and I didn't touch it, I didn't deal with it. Months go by, things get worse and eventually I have to go inpatient to a mental health treatment facility and where you can't escape, you can't leave, you can't do anything. The one thing I found there was a book by John Kabat-Sin called Wherever you Go, there you Are, and it's a book on mindfulness. And I read that book and it was like again trying to decipher ancient hieroglyphs, because it doesn't read like an instruction manual. It was really hard to decipher, but that lady's voice was still there telling me like, hey, this is something can help you with pain. And it was the same thing. I finally sat down and I practiced mindfulness and, just like yoga is therapeutic and it helps you deal with trauma.
Speaker 1:Mindfulness helps you deal with pain and remind you that the only thing that matters, the only thing you can actually truly affect and be in, is the present moment. And that was a definitive moment in my journey to getting better. I understood it. Conventional medicine's great, but you gotta be able to embrace every modality, take every option and if you're like me and somebody's offered yoga or mindfulness and you've been really harsh and bitter about it, be open to it. Because I am here right now. I'm a certified instructor. Now I believe in it so much because of what it's given me in my life. It's no different than when I was taking copious amounts of pain medication, because it's changed my whole relationship with pain. It's understanding that pain comes and goes. You touch it and you let it go. It's something that every veteran right now from the G1 area. They're in pain.
Speaker 2:Chronic pain is one of the biggest things.
Speaker 1:But we can overcome it and we don't have to take synthetic heroin and we don't have to take these compounds that are addictive and will actually like, in the long run, shit. Even Motrin is not good for us. I didn't even know that until another doctor was like how many times were you prescribed 800 milligram Motrin? I was like, doc, I don't know how many times I drink water. It's like, yeah, it's one of the things that was administered to us like all the freaking time, and then come to find out, you know, once you hit, you know 39,. You go through these evaluations with doctors and they're like, hey, we really need to look at all your systems, because how much Motrin in your system is not good. I was like, what can it affect? And they're like, oh, it can affect your reproduction, it can affect your liver. I'm like, well, what can't it affect?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, and from a young age, for some reason, my dad was just like I'm not taking any damn medicine. So I just don't take any medicine. And you know the cool thing about yoga for all your single guys, you'll probably be the only dude in class. I'll say added bonus.
Speaker 1:Yo, mark, I can't thank you enough for being here Before I let you go. I know I've been eating up a lot of your time and I'm grateful for sharing your wisdom with the audience. Your book highlights your journey, but it also highlights transition, which is one of the most daunting tasks any service member will do. Whether you're a Navy SEAL, ranger, green Beret, marsaw, crater or 92 Golf, all of us are at some point going to walk away from the military and it can seem like a very daunting mission, but it can also be a great journey in understanding your purpose, your passion and your own true identity. What are some words of advice to anybody that's out there right now going through their transition journey?
Speaker 2:So for I'll break it down and professionally, you know, when you're at an let's say you're at a fundraising event, right, and it's for the soft community and somebody walks up to you and says, hey, do you need any help? Swallow your pride and say yes. The best, the best relationship I've had in a long time was a gentleman who came up to me and said hey, mark, are you excited about you're? Like, you're an officer, you have your MBA. You know you've been a SEAL for 20 years. You know, are you excited about retiring? I was like I'm actually terrified because I have no idea what I'm good at. So this gentleman's like, okay, no, we're not doing that. So he said you're going to come out to LA and we're going to make sure you're taken care of. First thing I said in my mind was like well, why would you do that? You don't even know me. I kind of got defensive, right, but I was like why am I pissed off? It's because I'm offered to help. It's really going to fight stance. But when you're at these events, right, the people who are at these events, right, are excited to help. And if you are at the level in the soft community and somebody walks up to you and says, hey, do you need help? And you say, no, I'm good, you're going to be like, well, this guy is at the top of his game. If he says he's good, I'm just going to the next person. So whenever you're in a target rich environment which those are, everybody, almost everybody there either can help you financially or put you in touch with somebody or something that you don't have access to and turns out my guy was so well connected that he's like, all right, he's my guy and we're going to take care of him, and so that's professional, or you know, professionally speaking. But if you are personally speaking, swallow your pride, understand that you are not the same person coming out of that turn as you were going into it and you, there's help out there because you need. You need the help.
Speaker 2:So do all the research you can, because once we find out the why, or have a problem to solve or tenacious about, you know, finding all the information we can and just take that first step of progress towards hey, okay, cognitively I'm not there, something's going wrong. I've had wave propagated TBI or whatever. Whatever injuries you've got, we have it. You know you can't do this job for a significant amount of time and not have something going on cognitively.
Speaker 2:And PTS manifests differently in us because the screen process we went through we're shielded. So once we have symptoms of PTS we're so far past the norm because of what we've been through. So your family sees it, your kids see it, your friends see it. You're not the same and there's so much help out there now there's no, there's very little stigma out there for getting help. So take advantage of all the opportunities that are out there to get better and just formulate a plan and start off with like, okay, I need to get better, and then just start taking your steps towards it and figure out what your method is.
Speaker 2:Yours was books, notebooks, everywhere, you know. Mine was identifying the problem and realizing that I was in an environment that provided a lot of help, on campus, where I was working eight hours a day, and you know you're. If you stick with it long enough, you're going to come out of that valley. And then, with what skill sets you have and the type of person you are, the peak after you've come out of that valley is, you know, you can't even imagine sometimes how great it's going to be. So that's my advice, you know, just get the help you need, because we all needed at some point. It could be a small amount of help or it could be a herculean effort.
Speaker 1:You have to help, but you know, yeah, the resources that are out there there are so many people that want to help, that want to be of service, because they realized that for the past 20 years, individuals like us and you listening, have given willingly and have put yourself on that line, willing to fight the good fight, and it's time for you to take advantage of all the resources. Don't be ashamed of it. Get better, like we always say on the show, like we get through this together. So reach out. If you need assistance getting plugged in with a community or getting a list of organizations that can help you, hit us up on our website. We're hitting stuff on socials. We're always able to check our messages. Mark, thank you for being here today. What's the name of the website where we can check out, or in the name of the book as well?
Speaker 2:So the website is themarkgreencom and the book is unsealed and it is my journey towards transitions and it's really I try to hit the gamut of transitions, so hopefully it will resonate with somebody in some way. Yeah, I've experienced that and I'm using the seal experience or the soft experience to say, hey, somebody at the top of their game or close to the top of their game struggled and I'm not by myself in this thing, and that's true. Like you said, there's a network out there for you Find your tribe.
Speaker 2:And get back to it and realize that you're not going to recreate that locker room again. And that's okay. The seal locker room, I'm never going to find it again. The grain beret locker room, you're not going to recreate it. But just because you can't recreate that locker room doesn't mean you can't recreate a different one.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and mine was my USC tribe and that place was. I love it so much because it was such a place of healing for me. Yeah, yeah, so helps out there, so get after it.
Speaker 1:Hey, Cam Mark, Thank you so much for being here. Pick up the new book Unsealed On my website and then.
Speaker 2:Oh, and the website, yeah, on the website Mid on Amazon and if you get on. Amazon, do me a favor and leave a review, so it pushes the algorithm to get it out to more people.
Speaker 1:Awesome, and if you're wondering where you can find all this information, it'll be in the episode description when I publish this on Spotify. And then check it out, go to Amazon, buy it and also Mark what are your social handles? Oh, are you on Instagram? I am?
Speaker 2:on Instagram it's everything that feed Mark Green, so all the cavemen can find it.
Speaker 1:Well, don't worry, because we'll put that also in the episode description and on YouTube when we publish this. Mark, thank you so much for being here again and to all of you listening get, help, take care of yourself, remember you deserve it and we'll get through this together. Until next time, guys, take care.